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Author Topic: What Makes Light Move ?  (Read 14320 times)

Offline neilep

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What Makes Light Move ?
« on: 12/12/2006 22:50:55 »
Light is like ...well fast!!..not even a cheetah or a Peregrine falcon can catch up with it.

Not even my sons scalextric Porsche Turbo !!

...but...what makes light move in the first place !!...?


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #1 on: 13/12/2006 00:03:09 »
It moves because it wouldnt exist if it stood still.  :-)
 

Offline neilep

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #2 on: 13/12/2006 03:59:49 »
It moves because it wouldnt exist if it stood still.  :-)

LOL...no cryptic answer there then.

Light is a thing is it not ?

Is it possible to have a Universe without light ?...I gather one day that will happen.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #3 on: 13/12/2006 04:06:32 »
Good question.. I still don't get what makes light move? I Am Dense!
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #4 on: 13/12/2006 23:44:11 »
It depents how restrictive you are on the definition of light.  If you mean electromagnetic radiation that is in the visible region of the spectrum for humans it is quite possible that the universe will not have tist restricted range of radiation in it in the future as it has in the past during what are known a the dark ages sometime afte the cosmic microwave background was generated in the visible spevctrum and before the first satars lit up.

If you mean all electromagnetic radiation unlikely because as things cool down the radiation will move into the infra red microwave, radio and even audio frequencies
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #5 on: 13/12/2006 23:52:38 »
Karen,  nailep's question was facetious and got a matching answer.  for you I will give the full story.  light is a form of electromagnetic radiation. 

A changing electric field creates a magnetic field.
A changing magnetic field creates an electric field.
A changing electric field creates a magnetic field.
A changing magnetic field creates an electric field.
and so on
The process is one of continuous change and movement and has to be because
a static electric field does not create a magnetic field and
a static magnetic field does not create an electric field

 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #6 on: 14/12/2006 14:08:24 »
You can make light move by throwing a torch at a wall  :D
« Last Edit: 14/12/2006 14:11:27 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #7 on: 14/12/2006 14:15:08 »
LOL!! Thanks soul surfer! I have to contemplate that a bit!
 

Offline Bishadi

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #8 on: 14/12/2006 17:26:53 »
Light is like ...well fast!!..not even a cheetah or a Peregrine falcon can catch up with it.

Not even my sons scalextric Porsche Turbo !!

...but...what makes light move in the first place !!...?
How about I break a rule and share the direction that most just simply cannot fathom.

Light is a form of energy that is part of a much bigger family called the
electromagnetic spectrum.

All matter is made from molecules or elements that have associated.  Even to move or assemble is because they have energy, gravity is much less of an effect then the models perform and why Dark Matter and Dark Energy were ‘created.’  Molecules are made from charged particles (elements with energy) and it is the movement and resonance of these particles that causes interactions and assemblies into molecules.  As these molecules interact the hamonics of the structures must align yet if the amplitude or angular momentum (torgue) is too high for the structure a release is caused; a pulse of energy with its own magnetic field propagating at perpendicular planes.   A changing electric field induces a changing magnetic field in the adjacent space; an electromagnetic disturbance moves through the space from one place to another, even if the space is a vacuum.  Thus released energy propagating is light/energy disturbances of space/time.

The disturbance acts as if it was a wave, transferring energy from originating structures into space until captured by any mass eventually of interaction, with a  wavelength associating each mass object in the neighborhood of disturbance.  Like a splash on a pond yet without a medium of mass the propagation is of space within a time period.

The wavelength of the wave depends on how frequently the moving charge is vibrating. An energetic or hot molecule vibrates more frequently and therefore produces a wave of smaller wavelength than a cool or close to rest molecule. However, all electromagnetic waves move at the same velocity in a given medium yet variances do affects certain wave lengths in different ways.  When energy is released from one molecule to propagate, the real question is;

What causes energy to propagate?  And what theorem will describe this?

I suggest another look into the box…. The ‘black box’ and find why the ‘mistakes’ since the constant is the cause by planck.

Amplitude of the wave must be accounted for; no particle/no spin!

Finish this and get yourself a Nobel but if you claim to be the brain, I own you!

But be certain the model is correct.  Use it in evolution; it is how environment affect mass.

Life abuses entropy.   And it is because energy is actually light… you can name the wave length but planck did an oops!
 

Offline vivex_7

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #9 on: 14/12/2006 20:15:05 »
The answer would be same as why matter exists .

  Energy and Matter are the basic concepts . The answer of your would be metaphysical rather then physics related.
 
 

Offline Bishadi

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #10 on: 14/12/2006 23:30:08 »
The answer would be same as why matter exists .

  Energy and Matter are the basic concepts . The answer of your would be metaphysical rather then physics related.
 
  Nope! ..... If you would like to know what is peer reviewed look into QED or the 'jewel of physics.'

Enjoy
 

Offline Heliotrope

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #11 on: 16/12/2006 15:30:57 »
Karen,  nailep's question was facetious and got a matching answer.  for you I will give the full story.  light is a form of electromagnetic radiation. 

A changing electric field creates a magnetic field.
A changing magnetic field creates an electric field.
A changing electric field creates a magnetic field.
A changing magnetic field creates an electric field.
and so on
The process is one of continuous change and movement and has to be because
a static electric field does not create a magnetic field and
a static magnetic field does not create an electric field

I'm visualising something here and I'd like your view.

Start with a static and empty universe. Don't worry about the whys for the moment, all I need is a clean test bed.
Entire universe is permiated by a static magnetic field and a static electric field.
Now introduce a change in one place such that the magnetic field varies for an instant.
This creates a changing electric field which perpetuates the changing magnetic field etc...
I assume that this now self perpetuating disturbance would be perceived as a photon.

I'm wondering what determines the direction of the perceived photon. Would it perhaps depend upon the initial direction of the disturbance or be at 90 degrees to it ?
Or is it something else ?

I'm really wondering if photons aren't separate things at all and really are just localised disturbances in the universal fields.

 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #12 on: 19/12/2006 15:40:06 »
I'm wondering what determines the direction of the perceived photon. Would it perhaps depend upon the initial direction of the disturbance or be at 90 degrees to it ?
Or is it something else ?
It depends on the kind of EM wave: for a plane wave the direction is fixed in one dimension (perpendicular to the plane); for a cylindrical wave all directions in a plane are equivalent, that is, photons starts from the center of the circumference (obtained cutting the cylinder with a plane perpendicular to its axis) and move away in every direction in that plane; for a spherical wave all directions in space are equivalent...ecc..

Quote
I'm really wondering if photons aren't separate things at all and really are just localised disturbances in the universal fields.
Photons can be considered separated when they are detected with a time separation greater than the time nedeed from light to go from source to detector.
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #13 on: 19/12/2006 16:13:52 »
Quote
This creates a changing electric field which perpetuates the changing magnetic field etc...
I assume that this now self perpetuating disturbance would be perceived as a photon.

If that is how light is created, then how does nuclear fusion create the changing electric and/or magnetic field?  Or does fusion release light that has been trapped in the matter?
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #14 on: 19/12/2006 19:17:16 »
Quote
This creates a changing electric field which perpetuates the changing magnetic field etc...
I assume that this now self perpetuating disturbance would be perceived as a photon.

If that is how light is created, then how does nuclear fusion create the changing electric and/or magnetic field?  Or does fusion release light that has been trapped in the matter?

Why the need to think about nuclear fusion? You can simply think about a piece of hot metal, e.g.
Energy excites electrons in the atoms, so they go up to a more energetic quantum state; then they go down. While they go down, they emit electromagnetic radiation. You can imagine the electronic cloud as vibrating in this process and so emitting an EM wave in the same way as oscillating electrons in an aerial emit radio waves.
 

Offline Heliotrope

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #15 on: 19/12/2006 20:36:04 »
Quote from: lightarrow
Photons can be considered separated when they are detected with a time separation greater than the time nedeed from light to go from source to detector.

Had a bit more time to think about it and what I was really getting at was this :

Is there any way to tell if photons are localised disturbances in universal static fields ?
If not then they would be localised magnetic and electric fields moving through empty space and therefore not part of a universal field.
Which one ?
I'm also wondering if they're actually mathematically equivalent and it doesn't matter.
 

Offline Heliotrope

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #16 on: 19/12/2006 20:42:27 »
It depends on the kind of EM wave: for a plane wave the direction is fixed in one dimension (perpendicular to the plane); for a cylindrical wave all directions in a plane are equivalent, that is, photons starts from the center of the circumference (obtained cutting the cylinder with a plane perpendicular to its axis) and move away in every direction in that plane; for a spherical wave all directions in space are equivalent...ecc..

Gotcha.

I think I can answer my own question above.
If photons were localised disturbances in a universal field then any movement would cause ripples and the generation of more photons until the entire universe was awash with varying energies of them. And each would go on to engender more.
If they are not disturbances in a universal field and are separate localised fields then we would observe them as they are now. ie. discretely.

A photon does not emit photons as it moves and it does not cause more photons to be generated as a consequence of it's movement.
Or do they ?
 

Offline syhprum

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #17 on: 19/12/2006 21:51:36 »
I think there is a cutoff at about 10^20 ev of cosmic rays due their interaction with the CMBR but this may refer to particles
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #18 on: 20/12/2006 13:52:19 »
Quote from: lightarrow
Photons can be considered separated when they are detected with a time separation greater than the time nedeed from light to go from source to detector.
Had a bit more time to think about it and what I was really getting at was this :
Is there any way to tell if photons are localised disturbances in universal static fields ?
If not then they would be localised magnetic and electric fields moving through empty space and therefore not part of a universal field.
Which one ?
I'm also wondering if they're actually mathematically equivalent and it doesn't matter.
You need someone who knows QED (quantum electrdynamics); I don't know it. I would say there is no difference, but I'm not sure. Furthermore, talking about preexisting fields in the void should have to do with the void's energy, wich is a controversial subject.
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #19 on: 20/12/2006 13:56:15 »
A photon does not emit photons as it moves and it does not cause more photons to be generated as a consequence of it's movement. Or do they ?
Not in the void. They can do it in lasers (e.g.).
 

Offline Heliotrope

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Re: What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #20 on: 21/12/2006 13:50:49 »
Aye, I remember the laser stuff. Cascading effects and localised plasma mirrors etc... A laser within a laser.
QED.
Hmmmm.
Better get my textbooks out again. Been a long time.

Thanks.

 

jolly

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What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #21 on: 23/02/2007 22:24:37 »
deleted as inapproprate
« Last Edit: 06/03/2007 00:32:16 by jolly »
 

Offline lightarrow

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What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #22 on: 24/02/2007 17:21:28 »
energy is not light, light and heat are by-products of energy there is some energy with in light and heat by its tiny in comparison to the energy which creates it. light is very very fast alot faster than einstien said which has already been proven.
What are you talking about?
 

jolly

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What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #23 on: 24/02/2007 18:10:17 »
deleted as inapproprate
« Last Edit: 06/03/2007 00:32:35 by jolly »
 

Offline lightarrow

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What Makes Light Move ?
« Reply #24 on: 24/02/2007 20:14:14 »
I think that you posted in the wrong section.
 

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What Makes Light Move ?
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