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Author Topic: Science and God - Does it mix ?  (Read 48954 times)

Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #50 on: 02/03/2004 23:54:56 »
Hmmmm, I would think more like Jonah.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #51 on: 03/03/2004 10:52:54 »
YEY YES !!!!..I'm forever being corrected...again.....i realised I meant Jonah !!!!...honestly...I'm such a Penile :-)...I'll try to be more pedantic from now on.......or, perhaps I'm just keeping you on your toes *smirk*

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #52 on: 03/03/2004 12:56:43 »
It's hell what a lack of sleep can do to your memory.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #53 on: 03/03/2004 19:54:02 »
....sorry ?...who are you again ?....anyway tonight...I'll be happily dosed up on a healthy (or not) dose of nitrazepam...my once a week special treat !!!

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #54 on: 12/03/2004 01:58:02 »
:DLook what I found .....even for athiests there's a route to a Happy Ever After http://www.buyintoheaven.com/default.asp       they even offer a money back guarantee:D

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Offline tweener

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #55 on: 12/03/2004 17:35:20 »
hahahahaha  That's a riot!  I suppose they don't have many folks coming back to collect on the warranty!

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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
 

Offline rvcontre

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #56 on: 17/03/2004 22:15:12 »
Hi everyone. I'm sure most of you know this already but that jesussave.us site is a hoax. A very elaborate hoax and very funny to boot! Well in my opinion, anyway :) . But it is still a hoax and actually the intent behind it is a bit hurtful to me as a christian. Just so the rest of you know though. Thanks! :)
 

Offline christianchick

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #57 on: 22/03/2004 13:33:51 »
HI, you know honestly i think GOD and science have a beautiful mix, but to answer your question...Evolution, well i'm a christian so of course i believe in the creation, but lets look at it from a point of view other than my own.  With the theory of Evolution everything is an accident, it happened without reason or cause,  well if evolution is true than you have no purpose for being here, you and i are an accident and there is no right and wrong, and think about it, you and i have an unlimited ability to create, the potential to both love and hate, do good and evil, and be surprisingly different and able to change the world forever, and people are trying to tell me that this was an accident? that i learned this  over a period of millions of years?  how could i learn something if it once never existed?  And that is why i can't see the reason behind evolution.

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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #58 on: 22/03/2004 13:55:24 »
c-chick.... you speak of creation and evolution as if they are opposite or at least mutually exclusive terms.  what is to say that both can't be correct?

Cut me some slack I'm new around here!
 

Offline christianchick

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #59 on: 22/03/2004 14:17:34 »
personally the universe and our capabilities  as human beings are just way to good to be an acciedent, i think the theiry of evolution is for people who are unconfortable with knowing about hell

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Offline christianchick

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #60 on: 22/03/2004 14:19:53 »
the fact that i can love and hate did not happen by accident or evolution the fact that people could even consider the evolution with their creative ability did not happen by accident, so God had to do it,  i think evolution is just for people who don't like the idea of hell

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #61 on: 22/03/2004 15:30:00 »
Heaven and hell are just for people who don't like the idea of oblivion.  There is a lot of good evidence supporting evolution.  There is one piece of evidence supporting creation, and it's a book that's been rewritten and retranslated several times by several people over the last 2000 years.  Highly suspect, dontcha think?

Your argument's not very convincing.  "I love and hate, and it didn't happen by accident, therefore God did it."  The fact that you can love and hate come from chemical signals in your brain.  They're survival traits.  Animals demonstrate emotions, too, though of course to a lesser extent because their brains are less advanced.

I agree with one thing though...right and wrong don't exist in the literal sense.  They are human concepts and subject to wide variability.   The main reason most religions came into being was because the people starting them wanted to get their personal concepts of right and wrong down on paper and make other people follow it.  In some ways, that's not a bad thing...deep down, people are primal and violent.  Religion was a good basis for society establishing laws, but now that we're more advanced and more enlightened as a whole, I think it's time we base our laws on something more rational than the beliefs of some 2000 year old dudes.  

For example, the whole fiasco about creating a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages.  Man, would you people get over it?  The sanctity of YOUR marriage is based on you and your spouse, not a bunch of gays who want tax benefits.  



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Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #62 on: 22/03/2004 15:41:52 »
C-chick.... you didn't even come close to commenting on my response.  You just keep repeating the same point over and over again.  I believe in hell AND I believe in evolution.  You seem to be tryingto tell me I can't believe in both at the same time.
And cannabinoid, while I disagree with most of your response I say "right on" to the last paragraph (except the "you people" part)

Cut me some slack I'm new around here!
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #63 on: 23/03/2004 12:14:01 »
I think what Christian chick is trying to say is that the whole universe is much too organized and well thought out to have happened in a haphazard bang.  But I'm with you, MayoFly, I believe in both, and don't really find them to be conflicting ideas.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #64 on: 13/04/2004 18:35:30 »
I see it as being an unfinished bridge between logic and experience. Logically thinking there is no proof of God existing you cannot know it, ie according to the christian Bible.

However something cannot come from nothing, neither matter nor energy, that idea is science's and universally accepted by scientists. Within the universe are matter, energies, life (Kirlian life aura is much studied now, you can even buy your own camera...)Also there are the four dimensions and dark matter and the expected other dimensions are worth mentioning. There is more, there is the appearance of design in man and nature. Advanced functions and beauty. One function in man is the "hard wired belief in God".

I heard that scientist expected only simple life forms on other worlds. Some may disagree.

All that didn't mean much to me until I saw that I was in trouble, felt an ill conscience and thought I was about to die. I took my faith back to the forefront and did the thing called repentance. I thought God had rebuked me. In repentance I rejected all the known sin and had some kind of encounter with, I was sure, Jesus. It was as if He passed His hand thru my heart and cleaned it of in part or at least heaviness from an ill conscience. I was different inside, exuberent.

We would be like psychopaths without consciences. Imagine if we could clear them ourselves. The dictators would use that. I heard that Stalin tried stuff like that.

I was exuberent and had a memorable time. Forgiveness was excellent! New friends, self esteem... As I experienced difficulties and need for more of God I got my secret thoughts revealed. An aircraft design and lots of spiritual concerns. Private spiritual issues and questions answered by strangers near and far. Even a private prayer quoted exactly on TV in which the preacher quoted it before I invented it. My modification of that prayer again quoted word for word by another evangelist a little later.

So I have experienced God and the christian Old Testament is up to Him as to what it means. From logics side to experience it is, at least for me unfinished. God and science are about half mixed.

I think God revealed Himself to me and thru the Bible as well as in the other ways. The evils of the O.T. religion were because of fallen beings. Without that flood I would be a child of rape... Instead I am Noah's or I am here. Order is seemingly always good. There is unseen evil, deceiving spirits. Disorder is evil with diseases and wars... LOVE is good order, and light to the mind...

Ordinarily we use trust instead of knowing frequently.

I haven't heard of science proving mind powers or creating life.
So to me it is like an unfinished bridge, of spiritual experience across to logic and science, what about you?


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 14/04/2004 19:26:00 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #65 on: 14/04/2004 19:29:51 »
Also we can really know God exists but then there is no more need for faith in His existence.

My spiritual experience side can also be likened to a cannon, blasting the science side. The Old Testament meaning is up to revelation from the same source, not logic.


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 14/04/2004 19:31:21 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #66 on: 15/04/2004 00:14:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by Titanscape

Order is seemingly always good. There is unseen evil, deceiving spirits. Disorder is evil with diseases and wars... LOVE is good order, and light to the mind...

Titanscape

Hmmmm...I see dis/order as less rigid.  "Good" combat can be orderly, but not neccesarily good.  Cancer cells have very good order, is this good?  Depends on your point of view.

Could you clarify what you mean by "good order" and "light to the mind"?  The terms seem a bit vague to be used to define love.
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #67 on: 15/04/2004 03:07:40 »
This is to ALL the people who say christians only believe in God for comfort. YES we do only believe in God for comfort. But, whats the comfort in changing your WHOLE life around to suffer through persecution, havent you heard of christians imprisioned and dying for their beliefs? comforting huh. Plus People who dont believe in God, they do that for the ULTIMATE comfort, the comfort that lead satan himself astray, the comfort of "doin ya own thang" the comfort of "rebel without a cause" the comfort of "i dont need anything but myself in this world" so, maybe I believe in God for comfort, this universe is huge and lifeless, and for the most part heartless, and evolution might be what you cling to, but i dont have half a brain, and i see a lot of logic in creation, plus havent you heard of miracles (my birth infact, really, was fortold 4 years before I was born) or the shroud of turin, ud have to be a half brained human to really believe the shroud of turin is fake. So, maybe i want comfort, but that comfort i wouldnt place for the world, or the worlds mindless ways to be comfortable in their own mindless way.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline OldMan

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #68 on: 15/04/2004 04:57:15 »
Essentially I have nothing wrong with christians and their religion. I think it is good they can find such strong faith and that it brings them happiness. What I can't stand is the narrow mindedness that I come across is so many of them. To suggest that people are half-wits because they don't have the same beliefs as you seems so ignorant to me that it is beyond comprehension. It is a matter of finding what feels right for yourself whether that is you are atheist, christian, jewish or don't classify your beliefs into any particular religion. It's like food what tastes good to me may make you feel sick, that isn't hard to accept so why do people have such a hard time accepting other peoples beliefs?

To say someone is half brained to not believe in the shroud of turin.. I'm sorry that makes no sense to me. Sure it exists but does that mean it is what people are telling you it is? They are stating that because it is what they want to believe. I have to ask why you need something as physical as that to backup your beliefs? Last time I checked faith was more based on what you can't see, touch etc.

I'm just going to steal something Mayo said not that long ago...
>I always have to laugh when people complain about being frustrated when trying to "argue" or "debate" issuses of faith. It is such an ignorant act on the part of both parties in the "agruement" if either had a brain they'd realize that by definition "faith" is something that you CAN'T debate, argue, or prove. If it was it wouldn't be called faith, we'd have to make up some other word for it. Or, even more scary..... it would be called science! But its not its faith. Its someting that you believe in without proof or even evidence. It is this defining property of faith that gives it so much power to those who have it, and causes so much confusion to those who don't. So the person that tells you taht they can prove to you what they believe in is being just as ignorant as the person who gets frustrated because the other person is not using logical agruements.
---
Thought he made some good points. I could ramble all day but should get back to some work I guess.
Tim



I'm born. I'm alive. I breathe. In a moment or two I realize that the sphere upon which I reside is asleep on its feet. Should I go back to sleep?
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #69 on: 15/04/2004 05:46:33 »
well tim...I told you i believe in God for comfort...didnt I? I admit, i do. And when i say you would have to be half brained to not be believe the shroud is cuz its here...to be examined...to be researched...its visible...its tangible...its authentic...so i wasnt saying you would have to be half brained to be mean...its just that with a full brain, and the ability to look at evidence...its real. But faith...so elusive huh. Well, I believe that our brain has to halves...:) one which is intellectual, the other which is spiritual...and faith isnt about proof only cuz its the absense of our intellectual side...so its not proof vs no proof...your wrong..its the analytical side of our brains...the side that is held accountable to the ten commandments, and the spiritual side...the one that is heroic and capable of love. And what is love? its a gift...who gave it to us? God

Greg Badalian
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #70 on: 15/04/2004 05:54:24 »
what feels good to me huh...i guess everybody has their own tastes in food. you make a point there. but ya know, lets do a double blind expirement...give half partipants deadly anthrax, and the other half placebo...and ya know, we can see what works for some ppl, and ya know, what works for others...! !! ! remember what i said the devils problem was? he wanted comfort... comfort in what? Comfort in "whatever works for me..." which is "whatever makes...um..hphm...hmmm...COMFORTABLE!" So, im a nice good christian bible thumpin boy...and i love all people, but half a brain as bad as i may be, as rude as I may be, half a brain might seed you full brained into eternal torment and fire....so i say this out of kindness. really.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline christianchick

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #71 on: 15/04/2004 14:14:03 »
sorry mayofly, my computer messed up and i could never see my message

Hi senseless, i like your ideas

now, cannonboid, if christians do not like the idea of oblivion then why do we believe in hell?  in hell everyone is forsaken by God, God forgets about them others forget about them,and God says do not worry about being remembered after you die by others, but by God, in heaven your sins are forgotten,hmmm, actually christianity is very oblivious :)

next, what are all these evidences of evolution,the only ones i know of are a pile of bones manipulated by the human imagination, and a guy named Darwin who changed his mind at his deathbead, and i sincerely want to know where this evidence is

alright now, if our feelings are mearley chemical then those same chemicals by themselves can hate or love someone? sure

and you know God talks about people like you who fall away from grace if you want to know ask and i'll give yout the verses, if you don't care then i guess it doesn't matter

and oldman i don't consider non christians to be stupid i apologize if you have ever had that expressed to you,alot of my unbelieving friends are very intellegent, and a few are geniuses,but i will tell you that i do not consider them very wise because proverbs 1:7 says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but i love them alot and pray for them every day, and i really want to apologize for anyone who was rude to you, its not proper christian behavior


Greetings in Christ Jesus my Lord

 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #72 on: 15/04/2004 17:21:38 »
quote:
Originally posted by Donnah

quote:
Originally posted by Titanscape

Order is seemingly always good. There is unseen evil, deceiving spirits. Disorder is evil with diseases and wars... LOVE is good order, and light to the mind...

Titanscape

Hmmmm...I see dis/order as less rigid.  "Good" combat can be orderly, but not neccesarily good.  Cancer cells have very good order, is this good?  Depends on your point of view.

Could you clarify what you mean by "good order" and "light to the mind"?  The terms seem a bit vague to be used to define love.

Well I have heard of "as diligent as the devil" a saying.

Cancer is disorder in the body, cells behaving wrong. I am talking about the created order, the pristine and things close to it. Also our just order, so an aeroplane once hijacked is not in good order any longer. But the work done becomes an orderly design and a capable vehicle on side with a hateful person with a dark conscience, a despot. Unlove, darkness, deceit is there. It becomes part of evil and creates chaos.

The christian God is by His apostle John is said to be "Light" and "Love" which are two separate concepts. Love is written on in 1Cor 13 in the N.T. His creation apart from Satan was without war or disease and lusts... Light is for the conscience and activates moral strengths... It drives out darkness and gives us sight of things. Satan is in chains of darkness. God loves even the people in hell, in the horrid darkness. Darkness is a state and spirit.

To be loved is part of God's good order and to love Him and others is good too, even tho below heaven it may mean for a few suffering and death because of satan. All loving people suffer. A compassionate person suffers not only for themselves but for others too.

Love and light source good order it is organized and extensive. But satan is jealous and wanted to steal it... If a lovely women is not loving and is in darkness she can use sex, a good thing from Light and Love for evil. As in Soviet spies of some time ago. And then also all the order of Grand old Germany was seized and used by the Nazis. Weapons of defence and medicines, universities, brilliant minds, the land...

Cancer cells have lost some of their order in the DNA. Radiation mutations or some carcinogens have damaged the molecules. When did disease and illness start?

Love in a family for eachother keeps good order I'd say. It builds confidence and little bodies and minds. Love in love out, and order in life. Whereas love for money sources evils like child prostitution and organ sales on the black market... As in the former Soviet union. Satan has his own order but since he lacks creativity perhaps it is just chaos.

Light and darkness fight. Satan is poor at creativity but otherwise brilliant!

How is that?


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 15/04/2004 17:36:43 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #73 on: 15/04/2004 17:50:33 »
quote:
Originally posted by christianchick

now, cannonboid, if christians do not like the idea of oblivion then why do we believe in hell?  in hell everyone is forsaken by God, God forgets about them others forget about them,and God says do not worry about being remembered after you die by others, but by God, in heaven your sins are forgotten,hmmm, actually christianity is very oblivious :)


God is love!! He is love, His dimensions and His nature are love. He never changes and so He is the same love for us all and the people in hell that He was on Calvary. He lays down His life for us all constantly. If there was anything more the people in hell needed so to come up, He would grant it to them, but their rejection of God is dynamic and satan holds them.

Our chemistry is for the expression of love in the physical realm. There is more to life than mere animation but spirit too. Consider Trekky style teleportation, at the other end would your body be animated? Your life is more than material. Kirlian science touches on that.


Titanscape
« Last Edit: 15/04/2004 17:59:39 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #74 on: 16/04/2004 01:34:08 »
Well Titanscape, that's specific enough to give me a good view of your beliefs.  Thanks.
 

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #74 on: 16/04/2004 01:34:08 »

 

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