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Author Topic: Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?  (Read 61423 times)

chris

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Careful measurements made by bouncing lasers off mirrors placed on the lunar surface have revealed that the moon is moving away from us at about 1cm per year.

Why is the moon migrating further away from Earth, and will it ever "escape" entirely?

Chris

ukmicky

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Re: Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #1 on: 22/12/2006 00:02:28 »
Hi Chris

I believe it will stop moving away once the earth stops rotating as its the energy it robs from the earth rotation through tidal action, slowly making our days longer which allows it to move away.

Basically i believe it robs energy from the earth through tidal action .The energy its robs is from the earths rotation and the energy it robs from the earth rotation puts energy into its angular momentum causing it to move slowly away from us
« Last Edit: 22/12/2006 00:54:35 by ukmicky »

Heliotrope

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Re: Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #2 on: 22/12/2006 10:52:35 »
What is the mechanism of the energy transfer ?
Gravity ?


Ophiolite

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Re: Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #3 on: 22/12/2006 11:07:51 »
Yes. Gravity, causing the tides and slowing down the Earth's rotation. The angular momentum of the Earth-Moon system must remain the same. As the Earth's rotation slows its angular momentum drops. The moon's angular momentum rises by the same amount, which increases its speed, casuing it to move further away from the Earth.

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #4 on: 08/05/2008 03:12:57 »
 The moon is moving away from Earth
Due to the tidal forces of weight [gravity] and the tangential component [vortex force] two parts, vortex force to the moon is of increasing angular momentum away from the Earth, this process of angular momentum conservation, therefore slowing down the Earth's rotation cycle. In recent years, some countries in the world after scientists and technical workers in-depth observation and research, found that the moon is gradually away from us, and will be increasingly dark. The United States and France scientists use astronauts landing on the moon in 1969 when the United States placed in the mirror on the moon to measure the results showed that in 28years to the distance between the Earth and the moon increased 1 m, The United States and France the two scientists is the use of accurate time measurement to measurement, the distance between the change, This method of pulsed laser projection, and then to the mirror reflection back on the ground detector, a return of about 2.5 seconds, Constantly measuring return by the time the changes on the distance that can   change. Repeated measurements show that the earth and the moon because of the distance between the earth's surface tidal friction role annual increase of nearly 4 cm. Scientists believe the moon and under the influence of the Earth's gravitational tides produced, this tidal movement on the part of decentralized energy to the Earth's oceans, As a result of this energy - the loss of the campaign on the Moon system be affected, and this is moving away from the Earth's moon reasons. United States 2 geographers through Nautiloid Fossil study also found that the moon is moving away from Earth indeed. The two scientists observed several Nautilus existing fossil study found shellfish on the tree-ring wavy thread with the same performance, Thread at many points, though different width, but on every small wavy line growth in the 30 or so with the modern Lunar exactly the same as the number of days a month. Observed that the Nautilus, wavy lines of a long day, following a month long. Growth in this special two scientists to be greatly inspired, they observed the Nautilus ancient fossils surprised to find that the growth of every parrot the lines traced with the fossil's diminishing. And the age of the same line of Nautilus shell growth has to be fixed. Research shows that the modern Nautilus shell, the growth line is 30, the new generation of Oligocene Nautilus shell , the growth line is 26, Cretaceous Mesozoic is 22, 18 is Jurassic, Paleozoic Carboniferous is 15, Ordovician is nine, Concluded that 420 million years ago before the Ordovician, Paleozoic, and the moon around the Earth only nine days a week. Two geographers According to the Law of Universal Gravitation, such as physics theory, the moon and then calculated the distance between the Earth, Get a result, more than 400 million years ago, the Moon and the distance between the Earth is now only 43%. Scientists have also nearly 3000 to a record of pitting corrosion phenomenon on the calculation, of the findings fully consistent with the reasoning that the moon is gradually away from us.                             
using gravitational& vortex force  the formula to calculate the moon from Earth:
Cos а ≈ 1
Me = 6 × 10 ^ 24kg; month - the distance r = 38.4 × 10 ^ 7M
Mgh = mv^2 / 2 ①
V = at ②
Moon average week: v-= 1 / π ∫ vsin ω td ω t = 2v / π ③
Angular velocity difference: q = 29/30 = 1-1/30
V-= 2at / π; ω = 1 / T
a = KGM ω/ r ^ 2 ④
Mg = GMm / r ^ 2 ⑤
111Daily the moon away from us:  h = 2GK ^ 2Mq / π ^2 r ^ 2
= 2 × 6.67 × 10^-11 × 0.16 ×  6 × 10 ^ 24 × 29 / [38.4 × 10 ^ 7] ^ 2 × 3.14  ^ 2× 30
= 8.51 × 10 ^- 5m
From a year: 8.51 × 365 × 10 ^- 5 = 0.031m
This is close the measured value
Reference: “ mysterious vortex force  - gravity partner  ”Books Author: Zhuyonghuan Publisher: 21st Century Publishing House - China 2005-3
With  Cavendish torsion balance experiment measuring gravity tangential component "and" physical communications 2002.9 "



lyner

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #5 on: 08/05/2008 09:20:24 »
The reason that tides / rotation transfer energy between Earth and Moon is that they are big enough and near enough to each other that they can't be treated as 'point masses'.
We tend to think of orbits as depending just on the masses and separations but that is an over simplification if you want to get accurate predictions. The 'centre of mass' is a very useful idea but doesn't tell the whole story.

turnipsock

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #6 on: 08/05/2008 09:45:58 »
Hasn't the moons mass been compromised by the various Apollo missions? Increasing the moons mass will cause it to shift into a different orbit, that is maybe what we are seeing.

The way that the distance is being measured is by bouncing a laser off some mirrors on the surface. The calculation is based on the time the light takes to make this trip, however, the lights speed is affected by the density of the atmosphere and this may not be constant. (They may be aware of this and brought this into the calculations though)

« Last Edit: 05/06/2008 10:00:01 by turnipsock »

that mad man

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #7 on: 08/05/2008 15:39:15 »
Just speculation but could it be down to the expansion of the universe.

If the moon is moving away from the earth then would not the same be happening with the earth around the sun? Is that why we have to add a second to time every so often?

LeeE

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #8 on: 09/05/2008 00:18:46 »
In the scope of our local vicinity, the expansion of the universe is negligable.  By local vicinity I'm thinking in terms of as far away as the Andromeda galaxy, which is part of our local group, and which is actually moving towards us, or visa-versa perhaps, as it is considered to be more massive than the Milky Way.

The reason we need to add an extra second every now and then is because the orbit of the Earth around the Sun doesn't take exactly 365.25 days and actually varies by a tiny amount depending on the position of the other planets, so adding an extra day every four years isn't quite good enough, even allowing for the 400 and 100 year conditions.

neilep

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #9 on: 09/05/2008 01:43:46 »
Personally , I just think the mirrors are sinking into the moons cheesy crust at the rate of 1cm a year !  ;)

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #10 on: 09/05/2008 04:23:43 »
vortex force Introduction of
  In the beginning of the last century, Astrophysicists face a problem, Mercury recently at the precession (Newton's theory deviation of: 43 angle seconds per century ), This is the quote the classics scholars can not explain, and it is not Newton's theory of classical mechanics adopted by a storm. Then only 37-year-old in 1916 Einstein published the《〈basis of general relativity〉》,Schwarzschild Metric German mathematician in the field equations of general relativity to the Mercury precession of the mystery,Mercury precession was therefore established the general theory of relativity early as the first major experiment. Later measured the Earth, Venus and other planets has also point precession of the general theory of relativity and the calculation of anastomosis with good results. Mercury precession and in the light deflection in the gravitational field, the gravitational redshift spectra of the three major criterion known as general relativity.
  In the beginning of the new century, have an astrophysicist at the problems facing the front ,This is NASA launched the "pioneers 10" "Galilean slightly," four spacecraft speed reduction. American scientists through 10 years of observation, found space for the role of a slowdown The effect is tiny - only about one part in 10bn of that due to the Earth's gravity acting on you right now - but it is definitely there. So some scientists questioned Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, However, while some scientists believe that the best flight path is based on the parameters calculated, it is too early to doubt the basic law. We explore the long-term, in 2001, with Cavendish balance is measured not only by gravity to the component (that is, Newton's gravity), but also the existence of the tangential component, and that formula. To our planet, as an example, in addition to the original gravity (ie to the component), with the rotation of the earth, there are around in the vortex force of its (tangential component) the existence of ,The vortex force of (that is tangential component) and the Earth's rotation rate is proportional relationship.
  In the gravitational theory to elect representatives, it seems that non-Kepler, Newton and Einstein to my mind. It is worth noting that three representatives in the two agree that planets or stars in the rotation around a vortex. Kepler's idea of the same gravity as the car spoke, on the one hand to maintain the planets in their orbits can not run away (ie the components), on the other hand, with the sun's rotation around the sun forced planetary rotation (that is tangential component) . Einstein's general theory of relativity in there is a little-known forecast to be tested, the framework called gravitational drag [frame dragging]. When a planet or star rotation in space, it will drag space-time in its surrounding. This is very like the following example, when you filled with water in the bowl, one ball, and their rotation, the surface will be generated by the friction of water along the direction of rotation drag ball, the ball near the water in the rotation faster, the farther away from the ball, the friction of water drag effect will be weak. Newton's theory does not recognize the planet's rotation a scroll, so could not pass on Newton's theory of the "Mercury precession," this hurdle, a spacecraft can slow down this hurdle, Not only that, in many helpless astronomical phenomena, such as the angular momentum of the solar system, Venus reverse rotation problems…… . Practice is the sole criterion for testing theory, laboratory come to the conclusion also subject to the test of practice can rise to the theory.
  use of vortex & gravitational force formula, explain and calculate the following questions. vortex force of 12 major criterion [quantitative calculation, high school students can master]
1. Mercury precession 43 "per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
 2. Venus precession 8.4 "± 4.8" per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
3. Earth's precession 5.0 "± 1.2" per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
4. "Pioneers 10" four spacecraft speed reduction. ( slowdown by the the acceleration : one part in 10 billion of gravity at Earth's surface )
5.the moon Away from the Earth (3 cm per year).
6. Cycle of the Earth's rotation slows down. (Per hundred years 0.00164 s] ,
7. Coriolis force whereabouts eastward.
 8. Around Mars Phobos campaign cycle to slow down the week 0.1 ms
9. Sun-synchronous orbit satellite orbital plane precession; altitude of 900 km polar orbit satellite orbital plane precession of the daily 1 degree. The orbital plane of the vertical scroll relatively static, the situation in order to prove Scroll of the accuracy of the vortex force and an excellent opportunity.
10. Oblate of the Earth , 5 × 10-5m/s2. On the Global Positioning System GPS satellite orbit produces nearly 10,000 meters every day the impact of this phenomenon of vortex theory can be used to explain and calculate. Satellite orbit calculation of the largest perturbation of the - non-perturbation of the ball, not the flat rate from the Earth, but the role of the vortex.
11. Solar wind acceleration: time to reach the Earth, usually in the jet speed of 450 kilometers per second around.
12. With near 20years explore the more than 300 people each repeated verification; used Cavendish torsion balance measured vortex force of existence, and that formula New gravitational formula in the 2001 :
 F = Fn + Ft
To the weight of Fn = GMm / r ^ 2 -
Tangential component [vortex force] Ft = kGMm ω Cos α / r ^ 2
K = 0.4 for one factor,the unit: sec/Band ;
 ω is the angular velocity rotating ball, the unit: Band / sec;   
α to the orbital inclination.
Reference: “mysterious vortex force- gravity partner ”Books Author: Zhuyonghuan Publisher: 21st Century Publishing House - China 2005-3 "

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #11 on: 17/05/2008 07:28:01 »
  vortex force:
1.Lab vortex force
  a.used Cavendish torsion balance measured vortex force of existence, and that formula New gravitational formula in the 2001
2.earth vortex force
  a.the moon Away from the Earth (3 cm per year).
  b. Cycle of the Earth's rotation slows down. (Per hundred years 0.00164 s] ,
   c. Coriolis force whereabouts eastward.
  d. Sun-synchronous orbit satellite orbital plane precession; altitude of 900 km polar orbit satellite orbital plane precession of the daily 1 degree. The orbital plane of the vertical scroll relatively static, the situation in order to prove Scroll of the accuracy of the vortex force and an excellent opportunity.
  e. Oblate of the Earth , 5 × 10-5m/s2. On the Global Positioning System GPS satellite orbit produces nearly 10,000 meters every day the impact of this phenomenon of vortex theory can be used to explain and calculate. Satellite orbit calculation of the largest perturbation of the - non-perturbation of the ball, not the flat rate from the Earth, but the role of the vortex.
3.solar vortex force
  a. Mercury precession 43 "per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
  b. Venus precession 8.4 "± 4.8" per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
  c. Earth's precession 5.0 "± 1.2" per century. (Newton's theory of deviation values.)
  d. "Pioneers 10" four spacecraft speed reduction.
  e. Solar wind acceleration: time to reach the Earth, usually in the jet speed of 450 kilometers per second around.
4. Galaxy rotation curve flatness (dark matter, MOND theory).
5.Mars vortex force
  a. Around Mars Phobos campaign cycle to slow down.

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #12 on: 19/05/2008 02:27:34 »
Mercury precession (Newton's theory deviation of: 43 angle seconds per century )
  1. Kepler's idea of the same gravity as the car spoke, on the one hand to maintain the planets in their orbits can not run away (ie the components), on the other hand, with the sun's rotation around the sun forced planetary rotation (that is tangential component) . I use Cavendish torsion balance has been measured rotating the ball around the vortex of existence, and that formula. Use of vortex force & Newton's gravitational the new formula, explain and calculate a lot of problems. The prediction of general relativity - inertial system drag (frame dragging) should be the vortex force.
  2. By Kepler's idea of the sun's magnetic lines of a similar thing, we may wish to call it gravity line, The sun's rotation gravity-driven rotary, scroll to the transfer of the planets, scroll to the transfer of planets. The planets corner speed is less than the sun's rotation velocity resulting precession. Moon, too, was angular momentum away from Earth. If the satellite is the corner speed of the earth's rotation velocity, the satellite is not cutting gravity line from the vortex of . Geostationary satellite is the case. If the satellite is greater than the corner of the earth's rotation velocity speed, scroll of satellite impede movement, the angular momentum to reduce satellite orbit decay decline , thousands of man-made celestial bodies are so, the Mars satellite Phobos as well.
  3. No rotation of the sun's or rotation corner velocity is less than the rotation corner speed of Mercury, Mercury can not be precession, moving instead to retire. So with the solution of Schwarzschild Mercury precession [Newton's theory of deviation], I can not agree. If the inertial system drag of general theory of relativity to explain the Mercury precession, I think But good. Einstein was the problem with Mercury moving into the capture of the stronghold of Newton, is now a directional errors.
  4. Solve the Mercury precession [Newton's theory of deviation] There are many ways to the present, there is more than 10 domestic, but with the added vortex of gravitational theory to explain primary and secondary school students will be able to understand [qualitative analysis] and high school students can quantitative analysis.
  5. Reflection: no force act, no angular momentum transfer, no energy conversion, the Mercury can precession [Newton's theory of deviation]??

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #13 on: 05/06/2008 02:53:42 »
  Existing theories are barely even qualitative analysis, not to mention the quantitative calculation about the moon away from the Earth (3 cm per year).

zyh

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #14 on: 10/06/2008 01:33:43 »
 More than 300 years ago, a great scientist Newton  see apple fall and  the moon orbiting the earth movement, Invented the famous law of gravity;Now we observed the moon is to leave the Earth, what feelings ??

Make it Lady

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #15 on: 01/09/2008 13:44:04 »
The moon is moving further from the earth EEEEEEEEK! No one told me. I thought that we would notice that sort of thing, I mean physically as the moon is linked to lots of physical things on Earth.

ZHUYH

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #16 on: 03/09/2008 01:58:36 »
   With near 20years explore the more than 300 people each repeated verification; used Cavendish torsion balance measured vortex force of existence, and that formula New gravitational formula in the 2001 :new formular first solution about Pioneer10 slowdown in 2002-12.



  based on a modified Cavendish experiment. A rotating mass has a vorticity force surrounding it. The force can drive object to move tangentially around a spinning mass. The formula is : KGMmωcosθ/R^2 (K=Vorticity constant=0.4, G=Gravity constant, ω=angular velocity(rev/sec), θ=angle between rotation plane of mass M and m, R=radius).

common_sense_seeker

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #17 on: 03/09/2008 09:34:24 »
The new theory of gravity can explain this effect. See GRAVITY PROBLEM SOLVED in New Theories.

kaypep

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #18 on: 04/09/2008 11:45:14 »
Hahah, here's my noobish but "I think it shouldn't be left out" answer ->

sun is a larger celestial body than moon, so it exerts a larger gravitational pull than earth, hence moon moves away! whee!

BUT, this pull only works when the moon is closer to the sun! on the opposite side, the earth blocks the moon! the moon is further, thus less pull from the sun! the sun pulls the moon back towards the earth! so I don't think it'll escape!

lyner

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #19 on: 04/09/2008 14:57:56 »
Yes. Gravity, causing the tides and slowing down the Earth's rotation. The angular momentum of the Earth-Moon system must remain the same. As the Earth's rotation slows its angular momentum drops. The moon's angular momentum rises by the same amount, which increases its speed, casuing it to move further away from the Earth.

Ophiolite's said it all. Why not accept that this is a perfectly good explanation? And the numbers fit the facts.
Invent a New Theory for something that hasn't been explained yet. Particularly as you don't seem to understand the above argument - which is simpler than yours, zyh.

ZHUYH

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #20 on: 05/09/2008 00:34:58 »
Yes,it is a perfectly good explanation,but only qualitative analysis, not to mention the quantitative calculation about the moon away from the Earth (3 cm per year).

common_sense_seeker

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #21 on: 06/09/2008 10:49:29 »
I can prove that the Standard Model argument which states that the Moon is induced with angular momentum because of the Earth's spin is INCORRECT:

                    WHY IS THE MOON NOT SPINNING THEN??  ::)

Cheers,

AL


Bored chemist

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #22 on: 06/09/2008 15:36:16 »
Your "proof" is highly suspect in the first place, but since it rests on the idea that the moon doesn't spin, it is doomed.
You may not have noticed, but the moon spins.

common_sense_seeker

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #23 on: 08/09/2008 13:39:35 »
What is the mechanism for your transfer of angular momentum? If it is by particle, it would have to have a large mass, would it not?

Do gravitons have mass?

Bored chemist

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Why is the moon moving further away from the Earth?
« Reply #24 on: 08/09/2008 18:31:43 »
"If it is by particle, it would have to have a large mass, would it not?"!
No, it would need a lot of momentum, but it might achieve that by having a large velocity.
However it's much more likely that 1 you are a troll and 2 many particles are involved.

 

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