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Author Topic: Might photons have mass and the speed of light not be absolute?  (Read 3367 times)

Offline agyejy

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blah blah blah
Again, if a photon oscillated in the z axis, it WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TRAVEL AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

Again, a photon consists of two components, one magnetic, the other electric, and these oscillate along two perpendicular planes, the intersection of which is the geodesic followed by that photon.

Again, if a particle oscillates along the x, y AND the z axis, it will have mass, and cannot travel at the speed of light.

All the technical jargon in the world will not change this simple fact.

That is untrue as demonstrated by the paper that a linked. There is no law of physics that prevents a wave from oscillating along all three spatial dimensions while remaining massless.
 

Offline Craig W. Thomson

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There is no law of physics that prevents a wave from oscillating along all three spatial dimensions while remaining massless.
I fundamentally disagree.

First of all, there is no example of a massless particle oscillating in three dimensions.

Second of all, in order to travel in a straight line at light speed, a photon cannot possibly oscillate in 3 dimensions. In my opinion, causing it to do so might be the cause of red shift.

Third of all, the only other massless particle besides a photon is the quark, and three of those constrained to oscillate in 3 dimensions makes a proton, which has mass.
 

Offline agyejy

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There is no law of physics that prevents a wave from oscillating along all three spatial dimensions while remaining massless.
I fundamentally disagree.

First of all, there is no example of a massless particle oscillating in three dimensions.

I've already demonstrated that the electric field of a beam of light can have a longitudinal component.

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Second of all, in order to travel in a straight line at light speed, a photon cannot possibly oscillate in 3 dimensions. In my opinion, causing it to do so might be the cause of red shift.

No. The longitudinal component has nothing to do with redshift. Longitudinal oscillations would have no impact on speed. Again, there is nothing in wave mechanics in general and electromagnetism specifically that prevents longitudinal oscillations. More specifically when quantizing the electromagnetic field in quantum electrodynamics it turns out that the only solutions that propagate (i.e. travel for any distance) are ones with only transverse polarization. Longitudinal polarizations still exists they just result in what are called evanescent solutions (i.e. they don't normally go that far). Of course those are single (or very few particle) states. A beam of light tends to be an almost uncountable number of photons and this can have very interesting effects.

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Third of all, the only other massless particle besides a photon is the quark, and three of those constrained to oscillate in 3 dimensions makes a proton, which has mass.

Quarks are not massless. Quarks have a much smaller mass than would be expected because of the contribution of the energy of gluons. Gluons are strictly massless in the sense that they have no invariant mass and generally speaking in normal matter (i.e. not a quark-gluon plasma) all the gluons are virtual.
 

Offline Colin2B

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Craig
I dropped out of this discussion when I realised we were all talking at cross purposes.
Agyejy is not saying that that an em wave propagates longitudinally. He is talking about effects I recognise from near field EMR and non paraxial ray tracing, it is important when considering total internal reflection in fibre optics. If it helps I could dig out some handouts I used to give to MSc student when I was lecturing on optical comms, if you are ok with calculus it should be easy to follow, can't promise as I do clear my archives.
 

Offline krash661

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i love your signature.
 

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