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Author Topic: Does consuming water affect blood pressure?  (Read 143673 times)

Bass

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« on: 15/01/2007 19:13:35 »
How does consuming water affect blood pressure?  Does drinking lots of water raise bp? lower bp? have no affect?  Conversely, does becoming dehydrated have any affect?


Mod edit - formatted the subject as a question.  Please try to do this to help keep the forum tidy and easy to navigate - thanks!
« Last Edit: 24/07/2008 13:26:02 by BenV »

norak

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #1 on: 14/12/2008 10:55:12 »
Is is all to do with osmosis. Osmosis is the biological phenomenon whereby water moves across a semi-permeable membrane (e.g. the walls of a blood vessel) from an area of high water concentration to an area low water concentration. E.g. suppose you put a balloon filled with pure water into a glass of salt water. The water will move out of the balloon, causing it to shrink. When there is less water in the balloon, there is less pressure on the walls of the balloon.

The same thing happens with your blood vessels. The more water you drink, the more fluids leave the blood vessel, causing your vessels to relax and your blood pressure to reduce. Conversely if you have lots of salt in your diet, this causes the opposite. The water goes into the blood vessels, building up pressure. If the pressure is too high, the blood vessel will burst like a balloon. This is how hypertension causes stroke and kidney disease.




Bored chemist

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« Reply #2 on: 14/12/2008 13:47:03 »
Blood pressure is largely controlled by the muscles that form the walls of the blood vessels.
The kidneys will throw out the extra water quite quickly.
There will be an effect but it won't last and it won't be great.
Much of biology relies on the ability to push salts and water through cell membranes in spite of osmosis.

DoctorBeaver

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #3 on: 14/12/2008 14:13:48 »
When I was last in hospital my blood pressure was very low & the staff made sure I was drinking plenty of water to help rectify the situation.

Andrew K Fletcher

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #4 on: 21/07/2009 17:00:09 »
On the average, 16 ounces of tap water raised blood pressure about 40 millimeters of mercury in patients with autonomic failure. Blood pressure started increasing within two or three minutes after the water was ingested, increased rapidly over the next 15 minutes, and then began to decrease after about 60 minutes. Drinking more water at 60 minutes caused the blood pressure effect to be sustained for another hour.
http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=1022

Andrew K Fletcher

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #5 on: 21/07/2009 18:28:57 »
Performed measurements on myself and my wife. I drank 2 glasses of rainwater filtered, waited 12 minutes and re-taken blood pressure. Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged.

Wife measured same after half pint of water and waiting 12 minutes.

Maybe try again with normal tap water to see if bp goes up as reported.

Bored chemist

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« Reply #6 on: 21/07/2009 19:12:20 »
In the case of some experimental subjects
"16 ounces of tap water raised blood pressure about 40 millimeters of mercury in patients with autonomic failure"
In your case
"Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged."

The inference is clear; you don't suffer from autonomic failure.
I'm sure we are all pleased to hear it.

However, if you drink too much water it won't do you any good at all. Perhaps you should stop now until you are thirsty.


Andrew K Fletcher

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #7 on: 21/07/2009 21:09:59 »
Trying to work out why my blood pressure went very high recently, hense testing to see if drinking water could have contributed to it. Test proved this not to be the case but worth investigating for me at least. Nevertheless a very interesting paper.

In the case of some experimental subjects
"16 ounces of tap water raised blood pressure about 40 millimeters of mercury in patients with autonomic failure"
In your case
"Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged."

The inference is clear; you don't suffer from autonomic failure.
I'm sure we are all pleased to hear it.

However, if you drink too much water it won't do you any good at all. Perhaps you should stop now until you are thirsty.



profound

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #8 on: 24/07/2009 12:49:23 »
Performed measurements on myself and my wife. I drank 2 glasses of rainwater filtered, waited 12 minutes and re-taken blood pressure. Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged.

Wife measured same after half pint of water and waiting 12 minutes.

Maybe try again with normal tap water to see if bp goes up as reported.


Is drinking rain water not dangerous? You could get all sorts of diseases like swine flu.


Mazurka

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #9 on: 27/07/2009 15:11:32 »


Is drinking rain water not dangerous? You could get all sorts of diseases like swine flu.



Surely only if pigs fly? :o

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« Reply #10 on: 27/07/2009 18:07:19 »
Unless you persuade the birds to fly upside down over your roof then you do risk getting avian flu. The risk of things like salmonella is much greater though.
I presume the rain water is filtered/ sterilised before drinking.

Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #11 on: 27/07/2009 18:09:05 »
Indeed, we use ceramic candle filters, impregnated with silver and filled with activated carbon, 99.9% effecient removal of pathogens, somewhat better than drinking water from the tap with all of that chlorine, nitrates, phosphates, pesticides, and not forgetting flouride.

Rainwater has by nature a huge amount of oxygen compared to treated water. I will take my chances on rainwater, and as pigs definately don't fly, I doubt they will be soiling the atmosphere too much :)

Performed measurements on myself and my wife. I drank 2 glasses of rainwater filtered, waited 12 minutes and re-taken blood pressure. Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged.

Wife measured same after half pint of water and waiting 12 minutes.

Maybe try again with normal tap water to see if bp goes up as reported.


Is drinking rain water not dangerous? You could get all sorts of diseases like swine flu.



profound

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #12 on: 30/07/2009 08:19:50 »
Indeed, we use ceramic candle filters, impregnated with silver and filled with activated carbon, 99.9% effecient removal of pathogens, somewhat better than drinking water from the tap with all of that chlorine, nitrates, phosphates, pesticides, and not forgetting flouride.

Rainwater has by nature a huge amount of oxygen compared to treated water. I will take my chances on rainwater, and as pigs definately don't fly, I doubt they will be soiling the atmosphere too much :)

Performed measurements on myself and my wife. I drank 2 glasses of rainwater filtered, waited 12 minutes and re-taken blood pressure. Blood pressure dropped by 4mmhg systolic, diastolic remained unchanged.

Wife measured same after half pint of water and waiting 12 minutes.

Maybe try again with normal tap water to see if bp goes up as reported.


Is drinking rain water not dangerous? You could get all sorts of diseases like swine flu.



Rainwater could collect virueses from the air as people sneeze or cough or spit.

Variola

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #13 on: 30/07/2009 10:55:19 »
It is worth noting that the kidneys hame a homeostatic control over blood pressure regulation, the kidneys need to excrete enough sodium chloride to maintain normal sodium balance, normal arterial blood volume and extracellular fluid.Kidney disease is one of the most common causes of high blood pressure.
it is therefore beneficial to always keep well hydrated if you suffer from hypotension but you would have to drink gallons and gallons of water to really make a significant difference to blood pressure, and by that time I think the water intoxication leading to hyponatremia would have got to you.




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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #14 on: 30/07/2009 18:03:43 »
"we use ceramic candle filters, impregnated with silver and filled with activated carbon, 99.9% effecient removal of pathogens, somewhat better than drinking water from the tap with all of that chlorine"
"Better" in the very real sense that chlorine, added to tap water, is practically 100% efficient in destroying pathogens.
Can you name any human pathogens that are immune to chlorine?

"Rainwater has by nature a huge amount of oxygen compared to treated water."
For a start that's not always true; I have seen tap water that's supersaturated with air. For an encore; who cares?
Oxygen doesn't kill most water borne pathogens.

Andrew K Fletcher

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #15 on: 02/08/2009 09:26:45 »
Domestos is only 99.9% efficient according to the adverts :)

If chlorine is so effective at killing organisms, might it not be wise to imbibe it as we are an organism and could be classified as an environmentally devastating pathogen.

"we use ceramic candle filters, impregnated with silver and filled with activated carbon, 99.9% effecient removal of pathogens, somewhat better than drinking water from the tap with all of that chlorine"
"Better" in the very real sense that chlorine, added to tap water, is practically 100% efficient in destroying pathogens.
Can you name any human pathogens that are immune to chlorine?

"Rainwater has by nature a huge amount of oxygen compared to treated water."
For a start that's not always true; I have seen tap water that's supersaturated with air. For an encore; who cares?
Oxygen doesn't kill most water borne pathogens.

« Last Edit: 02/08/2009 09:28:43 by Andrew K Fletcher »

Bored chemist

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« Reply #16 on: 02/08/2009 12:42:12 »
Re "
Can you name any human pathogens that are immune to chlorine?" as I actually asked, I take it that the answer is no.
Why didn't you just say so?

Anyway from wiki.
"Domestos marketing campaign featured a mock of a scene from the film Big Bad John in which a Domestos bottle moved slowly around a bathroom in the style of a cowboy as nearby loo brushes and ornaments hid nervously. The bottle went under the name of "Big Bad Dom". The advert was produced using CGI. The advertising slogan for this campaign claimed that Domestos "Kills all known germs. Dead."
"


You say "If chlorine is so effective at killing organisms, might it not be wise to imbibe it as we are an organism and could be classified as an environmentally devastating pathogen."
You know that is nonsense because practically the whole Western world is drinks chlorinated water.
Why did you raise that blatant non-issue?

Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #17 on: 05/08/2009 17:59:49 »
Re "
Can you name any human pathogens that are immune to chlorine?" as I actually asked, I take it that the answer is no.
Why didn't you just say so?

Anyway from wiki.
"Domestos marketing campaign featured a mock of a scene from the film Big Bad John in which a Domestos bottle moved slowly around a bathroom in the style of a cowboy as nearby loo brushes and ornaments hid nervously. The bottle went under the name of "Big Bad Dom". The advert was produced using CGI. The advertising slogan for this campaign claimed that Domestos "Kills all known germs. Dead."
"


You say "If chlorine is so effective at killing organisms, might it not be wise to imbibe it as we are an organism and could be classified as an environmentally devastating pathogen."
You know that is nonsense because practically the whole Western world is drinks chlorinated water.
Why did you raise that blatant non-issue?


There is huge concern over the safety of chlorine in drinking water, so much that water companies are moving over to hydrogen peroxide, far safer imo.

Bored chemist

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Does consuming water affect blood pressure?
« Reply #18 on: 05/08/2009 18:07:35 »
"There is huge concern over the safety of chlorine in drinking water"
True enough.
However there is no evidence supporting that concern.
On the other hand, there are many years of evidence that it's safe and effective.

Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #19 on: 06/09/2009 15:23:23 »
Just an observation while drinking filtered rainwater so for what it's worth here it is.

Many years I, like many others have had a problem with acid and indigestion, peppermint has helped drastically reduce the amount of time I have this problem but never completely resolved it. Then one day I decided to drink filtered rainwater rather than chlorinated mains water.

Wasn't really expecting anything to happen, just enjoyed the water and when I drank it it felt right in my stomach, unlike the chlorinated water that did not feel good and tasted foul.

We made tea and coffee with rainwater, drank it filtered and cleaned our teeth in it, completely removing chlorinated water from our intake.

I had not noticed that my acid problems had gone while drinking rainwater but began to notice every time we ran out and reverted back to mains water my acid would return with regularity and would again vanish while drinking rainwater.

It appears to me that it somehow burns my throat and stomach lining, whether it is the chlorine or that chlorine stimulates acid production remains unclear.

Not having used underarm deoderants for many years, stinky sour smelling arm pits have me washing more frequently. Yet while on rainwater and using it to shower, my pits stopped smelling and needed less frequent washing.

Many people have investigated Chlorination. Here is one such report: The Negative Health Effects of Chlorine

by Joseph G. Hattersley http://www.nworeport.com/negative.htm

Bored chemist

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« Reply #20 on: 06/09/2009 16:09:46 »
If someone wants to advocate the use of ozone rather than chlorine I'd go along with it to a degree on the basis of cost but lets not do it on the basis of a report that wheels out the same old discredited ideas.
The stuff about free radicals is a red herring; they don't generally last long in the water so they are not a problem.
Also ozonation of water certainly generates free radicals. One such free radical is oxygen which everyone seems to be in favour of.

None of the chlorine in the water you drink survives passage through the digestive system so it cannot destroy bacteria like acidophilus in the colon .

The report also goes on about trihalomethanse and such; these are known to be toxic and carcinogenic- but they ware weak carcinogens
The study of two groups of women who drink water from different sources would be interesting; not from the point of view of the incidence of miscariage but to see how on earth they corrected for the other possible effects. Since these two groups were drinking different water they must have lived in different places. That means that other environmental factors would have differed. Unless each of those was identified and corrected for there's no way the study can tell you anything about trihalomethanes.
The essential fatty acids are present in fairly large quantities in the diet; some of them may be destroyed by chlorine in the water but most won't. In particular the ones that are doing their job in the nervous system won't get damaged by chlorine in the stomach- it simply doesn't reach them.

The stuff about arterial plaques and trans fatty acids simply have nothing to do with the effect of chlorinated water.

I got bored of reading the paper at that point.

Can I ask that next time you think about citing a report you check to see if it is rubbish first?
Better still, find a reputable source and see wht it says for example here's one in which I have italicised some points
"Carcinogenicity
F344 rats (50 per sex per dose) were given sodium hypochlorite in drinking-water (males:
0.05% or 0.1%, 75 or 150 mg/kg of body weight per day; females: 0.1% or 0.2%, 150 or 300
mg/kg of body weight per day) for 2 years. Experimental groups did not differ from controls
with respect to the total tumour incidences or mean survival times
, and most of the tumours
found were of types that commonly occur spontaneously in F344 rats. The authors concluded
that sodium hypochlorite was not carcinogenic in rats
(17).
In a seven-generation toxicity study, the incidence of malignant tumours in rats consuming
drinking-water with a free chlorine level of 100 mg/litre (10 mg/kg of body weight per day)
4
did not differ from that in controls (21). The incidence of tumours in treated animals was not
significantly elevated in F344 rats and B6C3F1 mice (50 per sex per dose) given solutions of
sodium hypochlorite (70 or 140 mg/kg of body weight per day for male rats, 95 or 190 mg/kg
of body weight per day for female rats, 84 or 140 mg/kg of body weight per day for male and
female mice) in their drinking-water for 103104 weeks (25)."

from
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chlorine.pdf

There are certainly risks from disinfection by-products from chlorination but the risk is small compared to the risk of water born disease. Ozone also produces by-products which have not been so well researched- they may turn out to be as bad or worse.
In any event since ozone isn't stable it cannot be carried through the pipes and disinfect them on a continouos basis as chlorine odes.

 

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