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Author Topic: DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??  (Read 15447 times)

Offline Soul Surfer

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DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #25 on: 03/02/2007 09:53:37 »
Jason,  the real problem is the excessive number of people on the earth not what they are doing and every year that the total population of human beings on the earth increases it will get worse.  If there were only about 10% of the total population we have now we could do what we like, all be very wealthy and do at least as much high tech stuff as we do now.  The real problem is how to achieve this level of population without having to kill 90% of the world's population by waging destructive wars.  because that is what we will do if push comes to shove!
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #26 on: 03/02/2007 10:25:31 »
One thing that you may not be aware of is that I and most of the scientific community have been well aware of the threat of global warming for more than 50 years. 

There are two real problems with our political and economic systems. firstly democratic politicions tend to think only short term.  as far as the next election.  Economists only think in terms of growth and youth and have no idea how to work an economic system where the population is declining and getting biased towards the elderly. 

The direct central control ideas of communism have proved to be inefficient and reactionary. All economies need entrepreneurs and an element of democracy to work but we desperately need some sort of effective global organisation with teeth to look long term keep us on the right track to prevent us from destroying the planet one way or another.
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #27 on: 06/02/2007 04:48:54 »
I totally agree...if you ask me...I think part of the Iraq situation is for them to start a world war right in the middle east so this necessary action will happen.   Our biggest problem we face I think is that the U.S. is 25% contributors...so what are they gonna do...just kill us? If we don't change our ways.  I have never agreed with a one world government, until the environment situation arised, and now I'm totally for it.  It's the only way we can survive.  I don't think the people of nations honestly care...as long as we know and still vote for the rules that apply to us. 
 

Offline thebrain13

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« Reply #28 on: 06/02/2007 18:05:23 »
jason I dont think you think it through. I bet you dont even know how greenhouse gases heat the earth. You are completely politically biased, how are you any different from exxon mobile? I dont belong to any political party, and I think its stupid how everyone thinks that they are totally right about everything and that the other half of the population is totally wrong. If you want to argue about the science of it, Im all ears, but leave the political garbage out of the science forum.

And a one degree change does nothing, its allready happened and we are fine. a seven degree change would raise the ocean level two feet (which will never happen btw). A bigger problem is running out of fuels to release co2. And even if we could raise the temp 7 degrees, it would still be a minor problem. Think about all the positives, more farmland, more co2 for plants to use. Who is it really going to hurt, not russians alaskans or canadiens. Who have tons of land that is almost useless because it is too cold. Maybe it would suck for people who live near the equator, well believe it or not, the warming of the earth is less for the warmer parts on earth, and more for the cooler parts. Thats because the greenhouse gas water vapor in those areas completely drowns out the greenhouse gas Co2. Water vapor equals 10,000 ppm worldwide compared to the miniscule 380 ppm Co2 and the concentration of water vapor in warmer climates is much higher than in cooler climates, which in turn nulls the warming affect of Co2. The warming raises the World wide average lows way more than it raises the highs. And it impacts the winter more than the summer. Farming is much easier under the doomsday scenario. That practically outweighs the negatives by itself.
 

Offline tony6789

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« Reply #29 on: 06/02/2007 18:35:28 »
Im not trying to get any1 mad in an extensive argument but im goin ot have to retaliate on something u have just said Brain.u said quote "And even if we could raise the temp 7 degrees, it would still be a minor problem." unquote.

7 degress may not seem like much to u but actually it is a catosrophic problem.  we humans are so simple minded! u arentlooking at the big picture. EVERYWHERE on ear the temp will b raised 7 degrees!...that could mean melting of the polar icecaps and raiseing the ocean at least 15 feet!! that will ruin houses along ocean coasts...animal habitats..even coral reefs (ex: Great Barrier Reef)...coral reefs cant survive in deep water..so no corals mean no tourists atractions!...thats not all....many people over look the fact that 3 degrees temp change ended the iceage to the temps we have today...so like i said 7 degrees cud b catrostrophic...and dont agrue with me because u won twin this agrument!
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #30 on: 06/02/2007 18:52:20 »
Thanks tony, I do agree w/ brain on the politics...I will leave them out of the subject for now on.  Yes, 7 degrees worldwide...could mean possibly an extra 20 degrees in your backyard, and maybe a -10 in your neighbors to make up the difference.  It is an AVERAGE.  It does not mean that every place on earth will heat a maximum of 7 degrees.  It means the Average is 7 degrees.  If the average lifespan rose 7 years in the next century that is a big deal.  You still might die at 25 years old.  But your neighbor might live to be 115 or 20.  But can ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS ARTICLE TO ME...WHETHER THIS THEORY IS REAL OR NOT...IT'S ON WEAPONS THAT CONTROL WEATHER USING FAKE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS....(Tom Barden) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=38963 [nofollow]
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #31 on: 07/02/2007 10:16:46 »
Glanced at the article and it looks like total rubbish with no sensible scientific basis or explanation with pictures of perfectly normal natural phenomena like aircraft vapour trails given some sort of sinister significance.
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #32 on: 07/02/2007 20:50:26 »
THank you and just so you know...they do have technology to make it rain...look up fruit fields in bulgaria...they do it during a drought to save the crop...the send a bomb in the sky and it rains...thanks for wasting my time with your closed mind :)
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #33 on: 07/02/2007 20:52:02 »
p.s. I see you still haven't responded to my message on the shuttle fuel and other chemicals in the outtermost layer crystalizing near the poles...
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #34 on: 07/02/2007 23:26:41 »
You clearly have not read my replies thoroughly.

Also  cloud seeding to increase the probability of rainfall has been known for many years but it cannot cause rain to fall if the air is too dry
« Last Edit: 07/02/2007 23:28:39 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #35 on: 08/02/2007 08:20:17 »
well that makes sense...can anyone direct me to diagrams or available online imagery of what's in the outtermost layer...or is that available?  I want to know more about the crystalizing of atoms and collection near the poles in that layer in particular.  If anyone has any insight on that subject.  Some 'other peoples' help would be nice besides the same person answering...b/c he tends to only answer what he wants to answer and leaves too many blanks...therefore I'm usually stuck either asking another question pertaining to the exact same thing...or just left wondering...
 

Offline thebrain13

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« Reply #36 on: 08/02/2007 19:02:00 »
Thanks Tony, I never thought about it that way before. Messing up houses that are right next to the water, and messing up the coral reefs for tourists. With all the problems in the world, I'd have to say those are probably number 1 and 2. And they deffinantly outweigh the extra farmland benefeits.

P.S. I cant help it if Im a dick, I was born that way, so take it easy.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #37 on: 09/02/2007 15:41:31 »
Jason  you seem to keep talking about  "the crystallizing of atoms and collection near the poles in that layer "  but so far I have failed to understand what you are talking about and how it has any bearing on global warming.  I am reasonably well read on the subject and have not come across anything that is similar to what you have said.

Could you please give clear references to this and/or describe what you mean in some detail If you would like me to pass any comments on whether it is relevant.
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #38 on: 10/02/2007 06:27:03 »
awesome that's the kind of kindness I've been looking for...you people seem pretty grouchy sometimes.  So what I read was on the excess shuttle fuel, somehow all that water vapor...or whatever it is from that fuel was making it's way to this outtermost thin layer and becomes trapped within.  It goes on to say that this layer is extremely thin, and not very active.  It also mentions that because of this inactivness that those leftover particles were "crystaling" -was their exact words...or freezing or something and seemed to be near the poles.  I'll have to find the article again...but they used the term 'watering a driveway'...it only takes a little to spread a whole lot, on such a thin layer.  So my guess is of course it isn't the problem I'm concerned with on global warming.  It's factors that we may not be seeing that is multiplying it's rate is what I'm concerned with.  As sensitive as the earth is, I would think it wouldn't take much of something to multiply it's factors.  Perhaps if these and other chemicals in the outtermost thin layer are getting stuck there and freezing and crystalizing at the poles...then it's absorbing more of the rays towards the actual poles?  But wouldn't they be able to visually see this happening?
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #39 on: 10/02/2007 06:40:29 »
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/03ASJ/08.01.03shuttle-clouds.html [nofollow]

polar mesospheric clouds...isn't the same article I was reading but same exact thing and probably a better source....

when u read this article...the thing that stuck out in my mind, is the part when they say what happens as the sun goes down...it's the only time u can see them...which makes me wonder...maybe they're larger than what we can see..we can only see when the sun is just right at the right angle? dunno i haven't a clue what i'm talking about =)
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #40 on: 10/02/2007 15:13:59 »
That looks a reasonable article about the generation of high level clouds from the water vapour exhausts from the space shuttle main engine.  These are similar to the lower level stratospheric clouds created by commercial air traffic whose exhaust is also mostly water vapour with some carbon dioxide.  These are likely to be a cause of a certain degree of global cooling because of the reflection of sunlight into space from the bright clouds and it has been suggested that the increase in air traffic has more of a global cooling effect than a global warming.  It was noted that in the few days after 9/11 that US air traffic was grounded that the sun's intensity was brighter than usual where it was measured on a regular basis.

All these are transient effects and not the main event and there is nothing to get your knickers in a twist about and definitely not the sort of alarmist stuff you were talking about earlier.  I also note you have not yet answered my question re your personal observations of the timing of tree leaves turning over and therefore presume that this also comes from other websites.
 

Offline jason2679302

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« Reply #41 on: 11/02/2007 05:55:26 »
The trees I see with my own eyes here in kentucky...esp a very good rain...the leaves all turn upside down about 10-20 mins before the storm...usually the wind has kicked up at this point and they're all blowing...I've seen this since I was a kid during every single storm...what I'm basically wondering does this happen because the tree is just made this way to do that...or is it something electrical in the storm and tree and leaf?

On water vapor...isn't water vapor the most trapping gas we have though.  Isn't the pollution consist of 97% natural water vapor, if so why wouldn't a small percent tip the scale way off, considering that it's already 97percent of the pollution?  Some people look at water vapor as a reflectant (global cooling effect) but doesn't it also trap all the heat that's already here trying to escape...such as at night...?  I think we are looking at the 911 incident all wrong...I think the increase in heat came from the ground up...a release.  Or was this incident based on heat coming in the atmosphere?? 
 

Offline dkv

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« Reply #42 on: 30/09/2007 19:07:20 »
Everyone is going mad.remove it .
 

lyner

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« Reply #43 on: 01/10/2007 10:34:16 »
Anthropomorphism is an easy thing to slip into. It is dangerous territory because it stops you thinking straight.
The energy from the Sun varies in the very long term but, for the middle part of its life (where it is at the moment) it is fairly constant
So the energy actually arriving on the Earth is also fairly constant. That might lead you to expect the  whole thing to establish and then to stay at the same temperature - like a steel ball in front of an electric fire.
However, it's more complex. There are many different interacting mechanisms which are involved in the movement of the energy once it hits the Earth. Even without any life processes, you would have an atmosphere (there would be a different one, of course) which would always be turbulent. You  would have enormous variations of temperature - seasons, tides , precipitation etc. etc.
BUT, because the total energy reaching the Earth is more or less constant, these variations would have to hover around an average, based on the energy in - energy out being balanced in the long term. You don't need a little  / big brain to be involved with the system to make this happen.
If you add life forms  to the system, you further multiply the possibilities for  variations. In the end, your variations will still be centred on a mean value.
One - just one- of the life forms on Earth is human. We are a further  'disruptive' influence and we may well drive the fluctuations out of the region that will support life  or, at least human existence.    Short term interests of a few influential people may well be causing this at the moment.
There is loads of evidence that we are entering a new phase of climate.
There is a lot less evidence (some correlation but that does not necessarily PROVE a causal relationship) that humans are responsible.
There is, I think,  little chance that  we can reverse the trend by our own actions.
We can't expect a GAIA to come along an dig us out.
We may be lucky.
We can at least try to do something - turn down the central heating - don't buy a new car or go abroad for your holiday and TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER NOW. (Joking about the last bit)
It will have to be a lot, lot worse before the majority of the Earth's population does anything about it - shame.
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #44 on: 01/10/2007 11:57:09 »
I would be very concerned about a book that claims that subconscious thought is created by one cell alone, and I personally may well have stopped reading right there.  With regards the earth as a whole having a subconscious - no, it doesn't.  The earth is not an organism, but it is an ecosystem, so changes in one aspect will elicit a change in another, just like localised changes in climate will elicit a response in trees, perhaps this is what you're thinking of as subconscious action?
 

lyner

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« Reply #45 on: 01/10/2007 12:43:37 »
Jason -
Quote
On water vapor...isn't water vapor the most trapping gas we have though.
Water vapor 'traps' or absorbs infra red wavelengths - which are radiated from the Earth's surface. BUT droplets and vapor (clouds) reflect visible wavelengths - which carry the majority of the energy from the Sun.  Flying over clouds shows you just how much is reflected!
The temperature that the surface reaches is due to a combination of all effects. I have no doubt that, were the Earth covered in cloud, the surface temperature could end up a lot lower than it is now.
That would be an equally difficult situation for humans  to deal with.
Nothing is straightforward where  climate is concerned.
 

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« Reply #45 on: 01/10/2007 12:43:37 »

 

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