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Author Topic: Is homosexuality genetic?  (Read 10244 times)

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #25 on: 09/07/2016 20:49:59 »
they don't have a choice about their orientation

They make the choice during sexual development. Sexual preference isn't predetermined.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #26 on: 09/07/2016 21:09:17 »
they don't have a choice about their orientation : it's biological

Tell that to my gay neighbor who was once married to a man and had 3 kids.

Examples similar in context are utterly endless.




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« Last Edit: 10/07/2016 01:56:38 by exothermic »
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #27 on: 09/07/2016 21:26:11 »
Most behaviors are an interaction of multiple genes (each with a small contribution) and the environment.
There are many theories about heritability of homosexual behavior, and some actually claim to have evidence to back them up.

There is no validated scientific evidence for the "heritability of homosexual behavior", and there never will be. Sexual preferences have nothing to do with genetics.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #28 on: 09/07/2016 21:43:19 »
I vaguely recall one reported case that did seem to be traceable to a single gene. Since mosquitoes take on the external temperature, raising the temperature above a threshold caused mosquitoes carrying this gene to switch their attention to a different pheromone, and back when the temperature was reduced. Effectively, they became temperature-dependent homosexuals. (Unfortunately, I can't find a reference to the report, which makes me suspect my recollection...)

It wouldn't matter if you found the link or not. A genetic mutation initiated by altering insect thermoregulation in a laboratory wouldn't validate anything relating to the notion that sexual preference is genetically-linked.


 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #29 on: 09/07/2016 22:22:02 »
here is a single-gene trigger in fruit-flies, also in pheromone processing:
http://www.livescience.com/2094-homosexuality-turned-fruit-flies.html

Humans don't have a CG6070 gene which governs male courtship behavior, so how exactly does this relate to the topic in question?
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #30 on: 09/07/2016 23:24:42 »
For a wonman that conceives boys the more that are born the more likely that they will be homosexual. I am not sure about girls as I have not seen any data. In the case of boys this is similar in nature to the mother developing an alergic syndrome that affects feotal development. Other factors include the mixture of hormones and what proportions they are at certain periods of development. I came across the information a few years ago now so I don't have references to hand.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #31 on: 10/07/2016 02:05:20 »
In the case of boys this is similar in nature to the mother developing an alergic syndrome that affects feotal development. Other factors include the mixture of hormones and what proportions they are at certain periods of development. I came across the information a few years ago now so I don't have references to hand.

You're stating these things as fact.... yet you provide no references?

lol


 

Offline jeffreyH

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #33 on: 10/07/2016 04:17:38 »
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #34 on: 10/07/2016 05:15:54 »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

The study in which that conclusion was drawn from comes with an admission from the authors that the results were likely affected by selection bias. It doesn't belong in a peer-reviewed journal.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #35 on: 10/07/2016 05:30:36 »
And

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology

None of the research by Savic and Lindström was based on the fetal and/or neonatal brain. Neuroimaging data of an adult brain does nothing to support your position.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #36 on: 10/07/2016 05:32:15 »
I can find more if you require.

Oh please do.
 

Offline puppypower

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #37 on: 10/07/2016 11:49:07 »
The correlation between fraternal-birth-order and sexual-orientation shows male-homosexuality can have a biological origin ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

Another way to explain this is, most young parents, when planning their family, would like to have a boy and a girl. One of each sex gives parents the full parent experience. If parents, also plan to have a limited family, due to economics, but have only boys, they may fixate on the next and maybe last child being a girl. They will want a girl. This fixation can extend to after birth, with the child consciously or unconsciously, taught to play the role of girl.

In the older days, when parents would have large families of 6-8 or more children, there was always next time. But if economics means you can only see yourself affording 2 children, the clock can runs out faster for the dream of biological symmetry in your children, so choice will take over to make this symmetry. 

Children are impressionable, with conditioning from before age of 4, able to alter their entire life. One can look at child development as a function of a wide range of human adult problems to see how easy programming can alter small children.
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #38 on: 11/07/2016 01:37:00 »
None of the links I posted suggested a genetic link but that during development of the feotus there are factors which determine variables such as finger length and brain structure. You appear to be fixated on the answer you believe to be true without following ALL the references supplied. Cherry picking is not scientific. Supply references that back up your position. "rotfl" back atcha.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #39 on: 11/07/2016 02:54:45 »
None of the links I posted suggested a genetic link but that during development of the feotus there are factors which determine variables such as finger length and brain structure. You appear to be fixated on the answer you believe to be true without following ALL the references supplied. Cherry picking is not scientific.

Are you serious? I already read/commented on both of the links you provided.

Once again, none of the research is based on embryonic or postnatal development. Neuroimaging data of an adult brain does nothing to support your position.

None of those "factors" influence sexual preference in fetal or neonatal development.... because there is no sexual preference during fetal or neonatal development!

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #40 on: 11/07/2016 08:27:33 »
OK So you are one of those people who think gay people can be "cured". Please correct me if I am wrong. Usually this mean ultra orthodox religious views.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #41 on: 11/07/2016 13:05:56 »
OK So you are one of those people who think gay people can be "cured". Please correct me if I am wrong. Usually this mean ultra orthodox religious views.

lol... How do you "cure" a preference?

So enough with the diversions. Back to the scientific evidence... or in this instance - complete lack thereof:

You mentioned something about links. Keep them coming if you'd like, but I'm quite familiar with peer-reviewed research.... and there is zero evidence indicating that courtship behavior or sexual orientation is predetermined. Likewise, there never will be.

The hypothalamus is where sexual drive and parturition originates - but those are formed throughout development. There's a good reason why we don't think about sex or sexual orientation when we're infants. Anyone with a basic understanding of fetal or neonatal development knows the complexity of intrauterine and/or extrauterine homeostasis, and the HPA-axis at this period is consumed with the biological maturation of vital organ systems such as the central nervous system, lungs and liver. The notion that sexual preference is "hard-wired" is utter foolishness.



 

Offline IAMREALITY

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #42 on: 11/07/2016 16:02:29 »
Not sure it's a fully understood situation yet, but what's for certain is that it isn't a 'choice', nor is it something that can be 'cured', nor that it's due to how they were raised etc, as some of the ignorant out there believe.  What's for certain, is that it's a part of their core, who they are, and that something somewhere along the way, whether through fetal development, brain development, or genetics etc, something gets glitched and instead of having their standard orientation towards the opposite sex will instead be oriented towards their own.  It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are.  That much is fact and certain, even if it's not yet fully understood as to the 'why'. 

The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations, are far more often even more decent and moral, are some of the most wonderful human beings you'll ever come across, and deserve to be treated with just as much respect, dignity, kindness, grace, love and support as anyone else.  That's the only thing that really kinda matters at the end of the day, and the thing that society really needs to do better with; though admittedly we've come a long way.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2016 16:09:56 by IAMREALITY »
 

Offline IAMREALITY

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #43 on: 11/07/2016 16:09:08 »
PS: Wow.. just read through all the replies... I'm astounded that so much ignorance can be found on an intelligent forum like this.  Really saddens me in fact.  Just totally disappointed to find some of what I read here...  Obviously far more work needs to be done... 
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #44 on: 11/07/2016 17:03:15 »
It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are. That much is fact and certain

You are wrong - unequivocally. You'd need an elementary understanding of physiology for your statement to hold any merit. "It's part of who they are" means nothing from a physiological or scientific aspect. Sexual orientation is in fact a preference which is not predetermined - but adopted during childhood development or as an adult. Pick up a textbook.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #45 on: 11/07/2016 17:09:06 »
The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations

No... it's not "the important part to know"

This is a science forum. Did you happen to catch the thread tittle????

Is homosexuality genetic?

Save your moral speeches for some other forum please. Your comments are utterly void of scientific context, and have no bearing on the topic in question.

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Offline IAMREALITY

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #46 on: 11/07/2016 17:18:49 »
It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are. That much is fact and certain

You are wrong - unequivocally. You'd need an elementary understanding of physiology for your statement to hold any merit. "It's part of who they are" means nothing from a physiological or scientific aspect. Sexual orientation is in fact a preference which is not predetermined - but adopted during childhood development or as an adult. Pick up a textbook.

~

What a load of malarkey.  No, you don't choose somewhere along the way based on your upbringing as to which gender you're gonna find yourself attracted to and identifying with.  It's just beyond absurd.  They, just like us, feel it as part of their core identity, and it most definitely is an orientation and not a 'preference'.  It is their core identity.  They do not 'choose' that identity.  It is simply part of them.  That much is certain and isn't even up for debate. 
 

Offline IAMREALITY

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #47 on: 11/07/2016 17:22:07 »
The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations

No... it's not "the important part to know"

This is a science forum. Did you happen to catch the thread tittle????

Is homosexuality genetic?

Save your moral speeches for some other forum please. Your comments are utterly void of scientific context, and have no bearing on the topic in question.

~

It's absolutely the most important part to know, science forum or otherwise.  And I'll present my moral speeches anywhere I damn well please, and will not seek your permission to do so.  And if you cared about science so much, you'd actually rely on it. 

1-2% of those who have gone through conversion therapy succeeded.  Pretty sure if it was a 'preference' that number would be, ya know, higher and stuff... 

Anyway, not even gonna debate this issue with you.  I find your position to be disgusting, shameful and hurtful to the community, along with some others replies here.  But like I said, it isn't even up for debate.  It is part of who they are at their core,  biologically.  It is not a choice.  It is not a preference.  It is not something learned.  Period.  Fact.  Shame on those who want to claim otherwise.  Just friggin disgusting.  Goodbye.
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #48 on: 11/07/2016 17:54:33 »
It is their core identity.  They do not 'choose' that identity.

Tell that to my gay neighbor who was married to a man for 23-years, had 3 kids.... then turned gay. The examples go on and on.


That much is certain and isn't even up for debate.

...... said IAMREALITY...... lol
 

Offline exothermic

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Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #49 on: 11/07/2016 17:58:14 »
It's absolutely the most important part to know, science forum or otherwise.  And I'll present my moral speeches anywhere I damn well please, and will not seek your permission to do so.  And if you cared about science so much, you'd actually rely on it. 

1-2% of those who have gone through conversion therapy succeeded.  Pretty sure if it was a 'preference' that number would be, ya know, higher and stuff... 

Anyway, not even gonna debate this issue with you.  I find your position to be disgusting, shameful and hurtful to the community, along with some others replies here.  But like I said, it isn't even up for debate.  It is part of who they are at their core,  biologically.  It is not a choice.  It is not a preference.  It is not something learned.  Period.  Fact.  Shame on those who want to claim otherwise.  Just friggin disgusting.

Your posts are laden with drivel and zero science. Wrong forum.

~
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Is homosexuality genetic?
« Reply #49 on: 11/07/2016 17:58:14 »

 

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