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Author Topic: Space Is Finite  (Read 918 times)

Offline Wajideu

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Space Is Finite
« on: 15/12/2015 00:12:44 »
I had this thought earlier today. What if the theorized dark matter that causes space to expand and pull objects away from each other actually surrounds the universe, and it's happening because of entropy? Essentially, there's this giant border of dark matter at the edge of the universe that makes the percieved size of space appear infinite when it's not; and the curvature of space makes it impossible to escape it.

This curved shape could be spherical or toroidal; and may even have a 4-dimensional velocity we perceive as time.


 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #1 on: 15/12/2015 02:29:28 »
What if the theorized dark matter that causes space to expand and pull objects away from each other
What particular theory are you referring to?
I am not aware of any theory that has "Dark Matter" causing the Universe to expand and pull objects away from each other.
In fact the Hypothesised "Dark Matter" is given the exact opposite atributes, in that it is said to be responsible for objects (Baryonic Matter), clumping together.

and the curvature of space makes it impossible to escape it.

This curved shape could be spherical or toroidal;
Every test that we are capable of doing has been done and they have all returned the same result:
To the best of our capability to measure it the Universe is flat and unbounded in all 3 physical dimensions.
Not curved into spherical or toroidal or any other shape you want to daydream about.
Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with daydreaming, and our imagination can be described as limitless. In the end though we have to allow observation to show us reality, not imagination.

Hope that helps
 

Offline sam7

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #2 on: 15/12/2015 09:00:21 »
my theory is that dark energy is attractive force from the future/past. It exists, but not in the present. It keeps the universe moving.
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #3 on: 15/12/2015 10:14:43 »
Interesting hypothesis Sam. Although different from your post that talks about Dark "Matter".
How do you propose to test this?
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #4 on: 15/12/2015 10:53:51 »
I had this thought earlier today. What if the theorized dark matter that causes space to expand and pull objects away from each other actually surrounds the universe, and it's happening because of entropy? Essentially, there's this giant border of dark matter at the edge of the universe that makes the percieved size of space appear infinite when it's not; and the curvature of space makes it impossible to escape it.

This curved shape could be spherical or toroidal; and may even have a 4-dimensional velocity we perceive as time.


You are suggesting a firmament and  not considering the inverse square law of light and the fact that objects have vanishing points relative to sight.

Suggesting finite suggests enclosure, so that would be a space within a solid, so is the solid infinite?   or after the solid is there more space?


Space is infinite by elimination process.
 

Offline Wajideu

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #5 on: 19/12/2015 13:50:23 »
A better explanation of what I'm saying, imagine that you're the designer of a virtual universe with true ai and want to convince it that the universe is infinite. Two options you have are space curvature (which only works if the ai doesn't move in a perfect straight line) and fuzzy logic. Basically, the fuzzy logic approach is to create a field of a certain substance (or lack thereof) that the concentration of which is equivalent to distance. So, the further they move into it, the more and more vast space appears. But, if they really did move in the same direction for a long enough time, they would wrap around. It's like the never-ending staircase in Mario64.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #6 on: 19/12/2015 15:37:27 »
A better explanation of what I'm saying, imagine that you're the designer of a virtual universe with true ai and want to convince it that the universe is infinite. Two options you have are space curvature (which only works if the ai doesn't move in a perfect straight line) and fuzzy logic. Basically, the fuzzy logic approach is to create a field of a certain substance (or lack thereof) that the concentration of which is equivalent to distance. So, the further they move into it, the more and more vast space appears. But, if they really did move in the same direction for a long enough time, they would wrap around. It's like the never-ending staircase in Mario64.

If I was trying to imagine an intelligent design of finite space , I would imagine space outside of the finite space, that the ''designer'' was occupying. Also I would imagine being inside a Nuclear reactor which we could certainly say fits the design.
 

Offline Wajideu

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #7 on: 19/12/2015 19:00:11 »
I don't believe in intelligent design at all. I'm just a programmer and looking at problems from an outside perspective is how I attempt to solve them. Eg. A few months ago, while explaining multidimensional rendering to some friends, I began to think about hyperfluid dynamics and how solids can be considered as very viscous fluids. While trying to figure out how it could be rendered, I had the image of 3d oil droplets in 4d fluid pop into my head; and realized that through oscillation and Newtonian forces, the solid objects could manuever themselves; and as a side effect could recreate many of the quantum level effects like the observer effect of the double slit experiment and tunneling. I found out about a week ago that such a theory already exists, and it's known as pilot theory. There have already been experiments done, but for some really dumb reason, physicists are rejecting the idea in spite of the proof. (probably out of fear that they would have to unlearn the concept of uncertainty)
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #8 on: 20/12/2015 14:12:52 »
I don't believe in intelligent design at all. I'm just a programmer and looking at problems from an outside perspective is how I attempt to solve them. Eg. A few months ago, while explaining multidimensional rendering to some friends, I began to think about hyperfluid dynamics and how solids can be considered as very viscous fluids. While trying to figure out how it could be rendered, I had the image of 3d oil droplets in 4d fluid pop into my head; and realized that through oscillation and Newtonian forces, the solid objects could manuever themselves; and as a side effect could recreate many of the quantum level effects like the observer effect of the double slit experiment and tunneling. I found out about a week ago that such a theory already exists, and it's known as pilot theory. There have already been experiments done, but for some really dumb reason, physicists are rejecting the idea in spite of the proof. (probably out of fear that they would have to unlearn the concept of uncertainty)


Strange you should mention viscosity, I once explained solids , gases, liquids , energy, everything has having a viscosity compared to space.  I can't remember what I said now though , it was years ago and I think they closed my thread.

 

Offline GoC

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #9 on: 28/12/2015 16:10:23 »
The human mind is not equipped to grasp the infinite. So we must confine our thoughts to the finite. if space is infinite the question can never be answered.
 

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Re: Space Is Finite
« Reply #9 on: 28/12/2015 16:10:23 »

 

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