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Author Topic: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?  (Read 1948 times)

Online tkadm30

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Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« on: 23/12/2015 23:34:06 »
It is well known that the influenza virus naturally mutate in order to survive.

Therefore, how could the virus adapt itself to the acquired immunity provided by flu vaccines ?

Could the next pandemic result in a genetic drift caused by the vaccines as the virus become resistant to the host immune system ? 

Are synthetic DNA vaccines promoting genome-wide mutations ?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3864309/


 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #1 on: 24/12/2015 11:07:41 »
"Small changes in the order of the bases in the nucleic acid cause slight changes to the amino acids incorporated into the virion. While not affecting the major structure or infectivity of the virus these small changes do change the antigens present in the virion. In each generation of virus particles the number of changes to the antigenic structure increases.. This gradual change over time is known as either antigenic drift or genetic drift.

Eventually these changes are sufficient for the virus to infect someone even if a previous infection left them immune to an earlier antigenic type. When sufficient antigenic drift occurs within a virus, that the majority of a population is non-immune, there is a danger of a viral epidemic"


So is state-sponsored influenza vaccination an attempt to induce a epidemic or pandemic through genetic drift evolution of the virus particles ?

http://www.actforlibraries.org/virology-what-is-genetic-drift/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21651796
 

Online puppypower

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #2 on: 24/12/2015 12:57:25 »
Virus can insert themselves into our DNA. Although these insertion do not create new coding genes, beyond coding for more virus, they can add to the junk genes, and therefore can have a contextual impact on our coding genes.

In other words, chromosomes are large molecules. Being a large single thing, that will act like a unit, in terms of their configurational energy, relative to water, due to being immerse and surrounded by water. When they are fully packed as condensed chromosomes there is less surface contact with water, and when they are totally unpack there is maximum contact with water. Most of the time chromosomes are partially unpacked/packed, leading to differentiated configuration and activity.

The junk genes, although not active, are still part of the total configurational energy. Any change in the whole configuration can alter the energy of the coding genes, sort of shifting the cell differentiation locally and globally. It may phase shift the immune system to be out of phase to the needs of new tasks; pandemic.

Since virus are so easy to transfer between humans; cough, this leads to the theory, was viral exchange between animals/insects a source of evolutionary change? It is much easier and faster to add viral DNA, to the DNA, than to wait for spontaneous internal change of the DNA. Each flu season many of us get some new DNA.

Say there was a mechanism for ancient cells to use coding genes as the template for a virus output. All it needs to do is add a protein shell and a few other tasks. Then all I would need to do is sneeze and you have a new coding gene. This is no longer the case but the viral  mechanism can still add to the junk genes to have a weaker phase shifting impact on coding genes. 

If this phase shifting is true, than vaccines may have a long term impact. This is consistent with the observation as medicine advances we don't end up with less and less sick people. Medicine is a growing industry, meaning as it solves one problem and it appears to makes new problems for the future growth of the industry. If it was solving problems faster than creating problems the industry would be imploding and shrinking, right?

Picture if a new car model just comes off the assembly line with good quality and marginal service needs. Each year as we improve the model to get rid of service bugs, new problems appear, which allow the service station industry to grow 20% per year. Each year people spend more and more on service while being told this is the state of the art in car health. Something is not adding up; unintended consequences of short term solutions to longer term problems.
« Last Edit: 24/12/2015 13:08:02 by puppypower »
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #3 on: 25/12/2015 11:17:57 »
Quote from: tkadm30
is state-sponsored influenza vaccination an attempt to induce a epidemic or pandemic through genetic drift evolution of the virus particles?
Influenza virus particles undergo rapid genetic drift even without a vaccination program. People become immune to the virus strain(s) they caught last year, so a successful flu virus this year must appear to the immune system to be different from last year's virus (and the year before that...). Hence the mix of strains in the vaccine has to be redesigned every year in preparation for the next winter flu season. Reassortment, and the large number of flu strains circulating in animal populations means that novel strains will be continually popping up in the human population.

That is even without the mechanism in the nih report above that suggests a mechanism to accelerate the mutation rate in the genes coding for the influenza surface protein.

So rather than accelerating the rate of mutation, I suggest that the government vaccination program is struggling to keep up with the existing rate of mutation.

The best that the government vaccination program could do is to protect half of the population most at risk (the elderly and children); if so, it could make a significant impact on the death rate.

If, in addition, it could reduce the rate of transmission from (say) 2 infections for every infected person, down to 1.5 persons per infected person, that will slow the rate of spread, and allow hospitals to cope better with the peak rates of infection.

The occasional use of antiviral drugs over the past few years has, however, greatly increased the incidence of virus resistance to these medicines. It seems that antivirals are only useful as a one-shot defence against a new, virulent strain (and there are arguments about how effective they were, anyway).   
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #4 on: 26/12/2015 14:07:14 »
Influenza virus particles undergo rapid genetic drift even without a vaccination program. People become immune to the virus strain(s) they caught last year, so a successful flu virus this year must appear to the immune system to be different from last year's virus (and the year before that...).

A antigenic shift/drift induced by vaccination programs is likely to causes the influenza A virus RNA to mix into the human genome, creating a vaccine-resistant strain. This engineered (super) virus would be a probable bioweapon as the human immune system is defenseless against synthetically designed viral vectors using mammals as hosts to transmit the disease.

"The swine origin of this flu is nonsense since no swine herds exhibited this virus till detection months following the initial flu outbreak in Mexico, suggesting it was transmitted from humans to pigs, not the other way around. Using pigs as a cover for the true origin of the disease also suggests a broad cover-up within the community of microbiologists and public health authorities."

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/11/bill-sardi/a-designed-bioweapon/
 

Offline RD

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Online tkadm30

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #6 on: 26/12/2015 15:16:05 »
Nevertheless, state-sponsored vaccination programs are evidences that reverse genetics is being employed to transmit viral RNA into the human genome. Hence how many generations of the vaccine(s) should be necessary for a deadly (engineered) mutation to occurs ?

The risks that the vaccine itself contains the potential for a pandemic (vaccine mismatch) should be reconsidered as the flu strains evolves from continous reassortment. 

 

Offline RD

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #7 on: 26/12/2015 18:06:53 »
...  how many generations of the vaccine(s) should be necessary for a deadly (engineered) mutation to occurs ?

If you are suggesting vaccination is a deliberate attempt to kill billions of people, why bother doing it in instalments ?.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #8 on: 26/12/2015 19:34:46 »
...  how many generations of the vaccine(s) should be necessary for a deadly (engineered) mutation to occurs ?

If you are suggesting vaccination is a deliberate attempt to kill billions of people, why bother doing it in instalments ?.

I'm not sure what instalments mean. I do imagine the design of the vaccine as a genetic bioweapon.
« Last Edit: 26/12/2015 19:38:00 by tkadm30 »
 

Offline RD

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #9 on: 26/12/2015 20:06:49 »
I'm not sure what instalments mean. I do imagine the design of the vaccine as a genetic bioweapon.

You said "generations" of vaccines would be involved in this diabolical plan, i.e.  the deadly genetic engineering was being done in instalments, with the cumulative effect of different vaccinations, rather than all in one go with one vaccination.

If genocide was the objective, why not just do the job in one vaccination, rather than in "generations" of instalments ?.
 

Online tkadm30

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #10 on: 26/12/2015 20:44:40 »
You said "generations" of vaccines would be involved in this diabolical plan, i.e.  the deadly genetic engineering was being done in instalments, with the cumulative effect of different vaccinations, rather than all in one go with one vaccination.

If genocide was the objective, why not just do the job in one vaccination, rather than in "generations" of instalments ?.

Genocide is a slightly more complex problem than creating a epidemic. Generations of vaccines may increase viral RNA levels so it can infect most peoples once the synthetic virus mutate.
« Last Edit: 26/12/2015 21:20:28 by tkadm30 »
 

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Re: Could flu vaccines causes a genetic drift?
« Reply #10 on: 26/12/2015 20:44:40 »

 

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