The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Found you via a link from a BBC programme  (Read 8531 times)

Offline scanner

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« on: 14/02/2007 22:29:24 »
It was a link to a forum discussion about Petrol/Gasoline -v- Diesel as a automotive fuel.

And sorry, but I was frankly amazed at the lack of knowledge and in some case downright misrepresentation or perhaps being charitable, misconception on behalf of most of the contributors, that it revealed.

I was all the more unhappy as the link had appeared to be made on the basis that the topic/thread concerned was seen as some sort of authoritive view on the debate when it was nothing of the sort.

I just hope that particular topic/thread is not typical of the whole site.


 

Offline Hadrian

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2175
  • Scallywag
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #1 on: 14/02/2007 23:30:59 »
It was a link to a forum discussion about Petrol/Gasoline -v- Diesel as a automotive fuel.

And sorry, but I was frankly amazed at the lack of knowledge and in some case downright misrepresentation or perhaps being charitable, misconception on behalf of most of the contributors, that it revealed.

I was all the more unhappy as the link had appeared to be made on the basis that the topic/thread concerned was seen as some sort of authoritive view on the debate when it was nothing of the sort.

I just hope that particular topic/thread is not typical of the whole site.

Most of say hello first before we get stuck in to the insults... LOL anyway welcome to the forum   



 

Offline scanner

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #2 on: 14/02/2007 23:45:29 »
Not intended as an insult at all, simply a question.

Anyway thanks for the welcome and a belated Hello.



......... but I still hope the debate on that topic is not typically informed.
 

Offline Hadrian

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2175
  • Scallywag
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #3 on: 14/02/2007 23:51:52 »
Not intended as an insult at all, simply a question.

Anyway thanks for the welcome and a belated Hello.



......... but I still hope the debate on that topic is not typically informed.


hey get stuck in and enjoy it's a supper forum whit many first class people ( not including me ) some like to mix it up with a bit of fun and that good to... and again make yourself at home you very welcome.  [^]

 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #4 on: 15/02/2007 01:09:47 »
It was a link to a forum discussion about Petrol/Gasoline -v- Diesel as a automotive fuel.

And sorry, but I was frankly amazed at the lack of knowledge and in some case downright misrepresentation or perhaps being charitable, misconception on behalf of most of the contributors, that it revealed.

I was all the more unhappy as the link had appeared to be made on the basis that the topic/thread concerned was seen as some sort of authoritive view on the debate when it was nothing of the sort.

I just hope that particular topic/thread is not typical of the whole site.

Have you heard the radio show ?

I suspect if you are looking for some hard core staid science debate en massse then this site my soon disappoint you.

This site is aimed at the younger viewer and this is reflected in the general tone of the site.

You will find serious science here but you will also find a lot of levity and mild mannered friendliness.

No one has to prove that they are an expert in the field before posting here, hence the friendly banter demonstrated through friendly debate and learning.....The conclusion of most threads usually ends with the correct facts and a general happy agreement.....A lot of us like to watch it happen from the early stages until the final post and though some of the facts may be wrong..the fact that they are..and are then corrected with courtesy,  is what makes the learning process fun and with an air of congeniality.

I do hope you enjoy the site and take it for what it is.

Welcome here.
 

Offline WylieE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #5 on: 15/02/2007 01:37:03 »


Have you heard the radio show ?

I suspect if you are looking for some hard core staid science debate en massse then this site my soon disappoint you.

This site is aimed at the younger viewer and this is reflected in the general tone of the site.

You will find serious science here but you will also find a lot of levity and mild mannered friendliness.

No one has to prove that they are an expert in the field before posting here, hence the friendly banter demonstrated through friendly debate and learning.....The conclusion of most threads usually ends with the correct facts and a general happy agreement.....A lot of us like to watch it happen from the early stages until the final post and though some of the facts may be wrong..the fact that they are..and are then corrected with courtesy,  is what makes the learning process fun and with an air of congeniality.

I do hope you enjoy the site and take it for what it is.

Welcome here.

Oh, so THAT'S what this site is about, I get it NOW ;)!
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #6 on: 15/02/2007 03:24:02 »


Have you heard the radio show ?

I suspect if you are looking for some hard core staid science debate en massse then this site my soon disappoint you.

This site is aimed at the younger viewer and this is reflected in the general tone of the site.

You will find serious science here but you will also find a lot of levity and mild mannered friendliness.

No one has to prove that they are an expert in the field before posting here, hence the friendly banter demonstrated through friendly debate and learning.....The conclusion of most threads usually ends with the correct facts and a general happy agreement.....A lot of us like to watch it happen from the early stages until the final post and though some of the facts may be wrong..the fact that they are..and are then corrected with courtesy,  is what makes the learning process fun and with an air of congeniality.

I do hope you enjoy the site and take it for what it is.

Welcome here.

Oh, so THAT'S what this site is about, I get it NOW ;)!




Well.... !!...That's MY interpretation anyway !.....

I suppose I better say that it is solely my version and I am in no way an official spokesman for this site so I have no ' mission statement ' to declare here.......except my own.  :)
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #7 on: 15/02/2007 03:53:32 »
YAAAAAY! I welcome scanner and make a suggestion that if he has knowledge of a fact not explained correctly, then he should take part in educating those of us who are trying to understand the questions posed, and in order to understand one needs to question hypothesise experiment and take note of outcome and compare things dig out the facts learn and expand ones mind.. This is what I love about the forum. I like its friendliness for allowing a knucklehead like me to listen in learn and not feel stupid posting an opinion, or a question, but graciously accept a correction to my thoughts by laying some nice information down that my bitty little brain can understand!

Please come participate.. we are all learning and welcome any other newbies to come in also! Welcome..
« Last Edit: 15/02/2007 03:56:13 by Karen W. »
 

Offline scanner

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #8 on: 15/02/2007 13:27:02 »
The trouble is this site - or more specifically the topic the BBC link lead to - was not quoted as an example of "having a light-hearted laugh without letting the facts get in the way" but supposed as an authoritive source of info for someone trying to decide between a petrol powered car and a diesel one.

What I found was a topic seriously blighted with misconceptions, out of date (several decades so) information and down right lies i.e. NOX is a proven carcinogen.

As a long term diesel driver I am well used to the "I've never driven a diesel, but travelled on a bus once so know all about it!" attitude of many so called experts, including the two used by the BBC in the show.
Everytime petrol -v- diesel is discussed by so-called experts it is only the disbenefits of diesel that are advanced and only the benefits of petrol.
Only diesels emit particulates they say - NOT TRUE.
Diesel fumes are carcingenic they say - NOT PROVEN.
The benzene content of petrol is never mentioned.
The environmental catastrophe resulting from the MTBE used to replace benzene is never mentioned.
The sheer danger from the volatility of petrol is never mentioned. I have direct experience of that as the two children of a former co-worker died in an auto accident where the fuel cut off on a fuel injected petrol car didn't "cut off" and the fuel pump continued to fill the car with petrol after it had caught fire.

All I ask is a level playing field with ALL the facts put forward, preferably by people who actually know something about the subject.

Thank you again for the welcome.
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #9 on: 15/02/2007 14:12:39 »
The trouble is this site - or more specifically the topic the BBC link lead to - was not quoted as an example of "having a light-hearted laugh without letting the facts get in the way" but supposed as an authoritive source of info for someone trying to decide between a petrol powered car and a diesel one.

What I found was a topic seriously blighted with misconceptions, out of date (several decades so) information and down right lies i.e. NOX is a proven carcinogen.

As a long term diesel driver I am well used to the "I've never driven a diesel, but travelled on a bus once so know all about it!" attitude of many so called experts, including the two used by the BBC in the show.
Everytime petrol -v- diesel is discussed by so-called experts it is only the disbenefits of diesel that are advanced and only the benefits of petrol.
Only diesels emit particulates they say - NOT TRUE.
Diesel fumes are carcingenic they say - NOT PROVEN.
The benzene content of petrol is never mentioned.
The environmental catastrophe resulting from the MTBE used to replace benzene is never mentioned.
The sheer danger from the volatility of petrol is never mentioned. I have direct experience of that as the two children of a former co-worker died in an auto accident where the fuel cut off on a fuel injected petrol car didn't "cut off" and the fuel pump continued to fill the car with petrol after it had caught fire.

All I ask is a level playing field with ALL the facts put forward, preferably by people who actually know something about the subject.

Thank you again for the welcome.

Well, seeing as I originally asked the  diesel/petrol question I have to say you are convincing me to buy a small diesel !...I could potentially be doing 500 miles a week and I want to spend more time on the road than on the forecourt filling up my car.  I just need a reliable form of transportation.

Thanks Scanner
 

Offline scanner

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #10 on: 15/02/2007 16:33:26 »
A pleasure........

As I say we have both in the family (so I'm not as blinkered as some)and the 999cc Uno is a pain to drive any distance in the cut and thrust of main road (especially M/way) traffic as you have to keep it on the boil using all the gears to make any progress.

The Punto JTD on the other hand is my daughter's preferred everyday transport - in saying that I would point out that she also owns a Ford Escort RS Cosworth and a Jeep Grand Cherokee TD yet thinks the Punto is by far the car most suitable for day to day  business travel.

If/when you get one just remember with a diesel it's all about torque not revs and drive at least one gear higher than you would in a petrol. Most modern diesels give their best between 1500 and 3000rpm and don't need to be revved much higher.

Ohh and don't bother with anything that doesn't have a turbo and an intercooler.

Once you're a Diesel::Driver (or even beforehand) you'll be welcome at www.dervhead.com/xmb [nofollow] ask there which is the best small diesel and 20 different people will give you 30 different answers.
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #11 on: 15/02/2007 16:47:22 »
Thanks for participating...
 

Offline rosy

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1018
  • Chemistry
    • View Profile
Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #12 on: 15/02/2007 22:00:05 »
As has been remarked in this and the original thread, the petrol/diesel forum thread has been linked from some BBC page somewhere... I don't know where, since no-one's posted the link.

This is rather unfortunate since this forum (being an entirely open discussion area) contains quite a lot of interesting and well argued material posted by individuals who have serious background knowledge or a good record in checking their facts, in response to questions about interesting areas or science and research. However, the diesel/petrol debate is sufficiently contentious (and enough people have a stake in terms of wanting to believe they've made the right choice of car) to fall prey to the not uncommon problem of people with Strongly Held Views shouting louder, longer and more often than those with a more measured viewpoint.

I can only remark, for the benefit of anyone who hadn't already grasped this fact, that all open discussion areas are only as informative as the people posting to them are informed. Some contributors are pretty reliable, and I shall cite Chris and Daveshorts as examples because I know both (and their trackrecords) fairly well, although this is by no means meant to cast aspersions on anyone else (or not anyone in particular).

For new vistors... the quality of debate on this thread is depressingly low, overendowed with ad hominem attacks, and not in my view (as a site regular) typical of this forum.. tho' it's not unheard of either.
Whilst I'm addressing any new visitors, I may as well point out that as well as the forum this site has a load of other content, including a lot of articles on various scientific topics and podcasts of the Naked Scientists radio show, neither of which are afflicted with underinformed rants.

(Apologies, this is crossposted from the original thread.)
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Found you via a link from a BBC programme
« Reply #12 on: 15/02/2007 22:00:05 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums