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Author Topic: Does photons have a mass?  (Read 945 times)

Offline tkadm30

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Does photons have a mass?
« on: 28/01/2016 13:46:23 »
"In classical electromagnetic theory, light turns out to have energy E and momentum p, and these happen to be related by E = pc.  Quantum mechanics introduces the idea that light can be viewed as a collection of "particles": photons.  Even though these photons cannot be brought to rest, and so the idea of rest mass doesn't really apply to them, we can certainly bring these "particles" of light into the fold of equation (1) by just considering them to have no rest mass.  That way, equation (1) gives the correct expression for light, E = pc, and no harm has been done.  Equation (1) is now able to be applied to particles of matter and "particles" of light.  It can now be used as a fully general equation, and that makes it very useful."

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/photon_mass.html

Since energy is equivalent to mass, what is the correlation between zero point energy and its relativistic mass ?



 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #1 on: 28/01/2016 14:03:34 »
"In classical electromagnetic theory, light turns out to have energy E and momentum p, and these happen to be related by E = pc.  Quantum mechanics introduces the idea that light can be viewed as a collection of "particles": photons.  Even though these photons cannot be brought to rest, and so the idea of rest mass doesn't really apply to them, we can certainly bring these "particles" of light into the fold of equation (1) by just considering them to have no rest mass.  That way, equation (1) gives the correct expression for light, E = pc, and no harm has been done.  Equation (1) is now able to be applied to particles of matter and "particles" of light.  It can now be used as a fully general equation, and that makes it very useful."

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/photon_mass.html

Since energy is equivalent to mass, what is the correlation between zero point energy and its relativistic mass ?

How can there be energy in momentum alone?  is it not the interaction of a photon that produces energy by the affect caused with light-matter interaction producing kE?

Light has no net charge and is relatively neutral propagating through space, charge is only obtained by activation of the ''convertualness'' of the Photon.

so E=∆p(c)   i.e the constant-'constant needs to change wavelength before it becomes ''energy''.


'''what is the correlation between zero point energy and its relativistic mass ''

E=c/d

the less distance, the greater the magnitude, if I could compact 1LY into a zero point space, well I would have some powerful zero point space.


p.s not sure any of this isrelevant to your question, but hey , give it a go.




« Last Edit: 28/01/2016 14:15:44 by Thebox »
 

Offline Alohascope

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #2 on: 28/01/2016 20:19:25 »
 

Offline Phractality

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #3 on: 29/01/2016 03:08:25 »
Since energy is equivalent to mass, what is the correlation between zero point energy and its relativistic mass ?

In my model, there is an asymmetric force between every pair of photons. Under different circumstances, the force may either attract or repel; its usually quite week. If it attracts strongly enough to cause the pair of photons to orbit one another, they may fall into an energy well, below the so called zero point. I believe that is where zero-point energy comes from. When a massive particle is formed in this way, there must be byproducts to balance the energy and momentum equation and carry away some of the zero-point energy.

By "asymmetric", I mean that the force is not spherically symmetric. Instead, the strength of the force depends on the angle between the planes of polarity of the two photons. The force only becomes significant when photons of compatible energies and polarities meet at the right distance; and even then, something else may be needed, such as perhaps a Higgs particle (not that I really understand what that is).

The sum of energies of the formerly free photons, give or take some zero-point energy, is the proper mass of the particle which consists of the two photons.

When an external force accelerates the particle, it increases momentum of the photon which, at any given instant, is moving in the direction of the force; and it decreases momentum of the photon on the opposite side. But the increase on one side is more than the decrease on the other side, so the momentum of the particle is changed by the amount dictated by relativity. (I realize I'm oversimplifying a bit; you have to integrate over the entire precessing, spiraling orbits of the two photons.) So that's where relativistic mass and proper mass come from.

In case you're wondering, the force between photons results from an exchange of momentum between the photon and the flux of dark energy. Each photon perturbs the dark-energy flux in a pattern which has mirror symmetry relative to the photon's plane of polarity.

 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #4 on: 29/01/2016 13:17:41 »
If photonic molecules exists, could we extract zero point energy from quantum fluctuation in space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation
 

Offline Phractality

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #5 on: 29/01/2016 18:20:52 »
If photonic molecules exists, could we extract zero point energy from quantum fluctuation in space?

"Photonic molecule" refers to something that exist only inside a dense light medium. Perhaps they are analogous to the orbiting photons of my model, but in a different medium and at a different scale.

The orbiting photons of my model exist in a vacuum in the medium the aether. They are the most fundamental particles with proper mass. All other particles with proper mass consist of combinations of orbiting pairs (or perhaps larger groups) of photons.

Each species of fundamental particle is a strange attractor in the chaotic mix of dark energy and light energy.

I think that zero-point energy is exchanged whenever, photon pairs are formed or split. Probably orders of magnitude less ZPE is exchanged when photon pairs combine with or break away from one another. Conceivably, there may be several layers of complexity between photon pairs and quarks.

Each free photon is an aethereal shear wave, wiggling the aether perpendicular to the direction of propagation. Dark energy is aethereal pressure waves, wiggling the aether parallel to the direction of propagation. (I previously believed that the pressure waves were billions of times faster than the shear waves. I now have doubts about the proof which I have been relying on.)

A small percentage of momentum is exchanged in collisions between shear waves and pressure waves. The magnitude and direction of the exchange depends on the pressure wave's path relative to the photon's path and plane of polarity. Therefor, the dark-energy flux is perturbed in a pattern which has mirror symmetry (or perhaps antimirror symmetry) relative to the photon's plane of polarity. 

When photons orbit one another, that perturbation of the dark-energy flux gets spun into a spiral, expanding outward at the speed of dark energy. Pairs of these precessing spirals can mesh like gears to form larger particles.

I think a quantum fluctuation is what happens when God rolls His dice. We mortals will be evicted from the casino if we try to rig God's dice.
 

Offline Alohascope

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #6 on: 29/01/2016 19:48:26 »
If photonic molecules exists, could we extract zero point energy from quantum fluctuation in space?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

It's not a question of 'if' tkadm .. they have been created by scientists.  http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/9736/20130926/scientists-create-new-form-matter-photon-molecules-act-light-saber.htm
 

Offline alysdexia

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
« Reply #7 on: 30/01/2016 11:36:15 »
Vis and mass aren't MOD EDIT equivalent.

Take the volume of a box (or parallelepipedon) whose perpendicular spans are a, b, and c; its volume V = abc.  Does that mean its volume and its width are equivalent? 

FÚtÚns are not motes; they are waves.  They are literally haps, events (actions in QM or CM).  Of course events don't bear a mass; they're not a body.  As such, they don't really exist.  They interact with other waves and bodies to make polarÚns and polaritÚns which do exist. MOD EDIT

The Lamb shift should impose the smallest mass fluctuation at the coldest matter; however hotter matter already has smaller transitions; this has nothing to do with the makeup of a wave thouh.

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« Last Edit: 30/01/2016 14:41:51 by Colin2B »
 

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Re: Does photons have a mass?
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