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Author Topic: For space flow  (Read 2938 times)

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #25 on: 05/02/2016 09:09:32 »
Answer this please, how could a Quark be attracted to a Quark if the Quarks were positive charged?

To quote your earlier comment

''And yet I totally agree that positive charges repel...''
And just where did you ever get the idea that Quarks are positive?
That is totally preposterous. Quarks in themselves encompass all 3 forces of nature and are neutral within themselves. Positive and negative charges arise a full two levels of complexity away.
First the quarks get together to form a Neutron by splitting the 3 in 1 forces into 2. The strong and the electroweak. At this stage there is still no polarity. A neutron is neutral.
It is another level above this that polarity comes into existence when the electroweak force is split into the weak and electromagnetic force by releasing into the Universe an electron and a neutrino.
That is the stage that positive and negative come into existence. It is an emergent quality of complexity that is removed from the just Quark level.
Quarks on their own do not even carry a full equal neutral charge let alone positive and negative.
I do read anything you or anyone else comes up with, with an open mind.
That is why I can tell you that your ideas stem from false assumptions.
If you don't understand the basics to start with, then you are building skyscrapers on a base of sand.
The tide will always come back in and that sand will move.

You are mistaken, 3 quarks adjoin to become a proton, a proton is said to be positive charged, the electron shell is said to be negative charged, and the neutron for some reason they placed inside the electron shell,.

However they are also mistaken, quarks are negative because positive and positive repel.

Positively charged particles do push apart from each other, but at very, very close ranges, the strong force can overcome the electrostatic repulsion. But only to a point. Up and down quarks have different charges (+2/3 and 1/3), a neutron contains 2/31/31/3 = 0 charge and protons contain 2/3+2/31/3 = 1 charge. I am unaware of any particles made of three positively or three negatively charged quarks.

Also atomic nuclei containing more than one proton must have at least one neutron for the strong force to win over the electrostatic repulsion.

Can you at least try to do some research about what scientists say before saying that they are wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_interaction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadron
I know that wikipedia uses a lot of jargon, so I also highly recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015EL0QRG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

I have done my research, the strong force is a negative force.

The small distance of work done you mention is a small distance because of the positive is also attracted to a negative. The negative holds the positive and stops the positive expanding. Add more energy and watch the positive break its negative bond and expand.

The strong nuclear force is negative


This is getting worse than being on a religion forum, they have the same sort of arrogance and think they know it all.

A proton is negative that holds a positive charge,


repeat these words, a Proton has a positive charge , (has being the clue there).


A  battery has a charge,  think , think, think!!!!!!!


The Proton has a positive charge, the proton is not a positive  charge. !!!!!

All negativity attracts a kind of positivity, spooky action at a distance but really it is just simplicity.  A positive Cat in a negative box, can you hear the cat's screams emitting from the box.


OH how the duality of the Proton can be so misleading at a spooky distance.  ''I am'' positive energy inside of a negative kernel, the more friends that arrive the more overcrowding there is, I push my neighbours away.

All that exists of a concrete existence is particle X, particle X is a negativity that is attracted to other particle x's.  Particle X is special, particle X and particle X colliding makes a convertual particle Y .  However particle X absorbs Y and becomes particle XY  , Particle X likes parties, particle X is attracted to particle Y, and likewise Y is affectionate back. However Y does not like Y, so if Y comes close to XY, Y kicks off at Y and pushes Y away. Two make a couple , three is over crowding. Cause particle XY has a love entanglement. Who goes first decides what the partner is doing.

Now particle XY decide to leave the mass party, so of they go at the near speed of light, but X was dragging his feet slightly because he could not go quite as fast as y. 







 

« Last Edit: 05/02/2016 09:48:31 by Thebox »
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #26 on: 05/02/2016 11:21:36 »

OK I admit defeat. You sir have an impregnable force field against facts, logic and common sense.
 
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Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #27 on: 06/02/2016 10:26:25 »

OK I admit defeat. You sir have an impregnable force field against facts, logic and common sense.

Have you ever considered the firmament of the mind is in  your head?

Open minded is an open door,
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #28 on: 09/02/2016 22:24:10 »

  A positive Cat in a negative box, can you hear the cat's screams emitting from the box.

Nope,..........All I can hear is you screaming at the rest of us because we won't buy into your garbage. If you continue to hear that cat screaming, you may want to have your ears checked. If that doesn't remedy the situation, you might need to have what lies between your ears examined.
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #29 on: 10/02/2016 03:10:07 »
Have you ever considered the firmament of the mind is in  your head?

Open minded is an open door,
Ok young fella..
I assume you must be young as you appear to have a lot to learn.
One last try.

I have been going over all your past comments, and I'm not even sure you know what you believe.
Very confusing.
So.... You claim that the measurement of time has nothing to do with time itself. So please enlighten me.
What do all these measurements of time that we use and compare to each other, that consistently produce data that agrees with our theory of time, actually mean by your definition.
And if they are not related to time itself, then what are they related to.
Why do we consistently measure what we do measure. What is it that produces that data, if it isn't anything to do with time? And how do you support such a claim?
If you are really saying that time itself has nothing to do with the way we test and measure its characteristics than how would you measure and test your concept of time?
What evidence can you produce that refutes all the current observations and measurements and supports a different set of data, that apparently no one else on this planet is privy to but you?

I'm listening. Convince me.
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #30 on: 10/02/2016 03:56:19 »

Ok young fella..
I assume you must be young as you appear to have a lot to learn.
One last try.


I believe you're on to something there Space Flow. I will give Mr. Box a little credit even so, he certainly is persistent. If he would expend as much time and effort learning from our scientific giants of the past instead of assuming he could compete with their conclusions, he would no doubt become a very adept and knowledgeable young individual. He's certainly not stupid, just so very fixated on a couple false mental images that he becomes unable to reason with any other position.

While he continually demands answers from us, I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for him to answer those few you just asked of him.

Just saying...................................

 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #31 on: 10/02/2016 06:52:50 »
He's certainly not stupid, just so very fixated on a couple false mental images that he becomes unable to reason with any other position.
Funny thing is Ethos, some of the things he says if taken in isolation can almost sound like he may be on to something. Unfortunately every-time I have thought that he tends to go and spoil it with the very next sentence. He could well have a revolutionary idea revolving around in that head and just not communicating it properly. Or it could all be the BS that we have all gotten into the habit of accusing him off. It is so hard to tell.
Not agreeing with the accepted view is not always a bad thing. But you have to be able to explain observations  and experimental evidence rather than just insisting that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
After all if people never disagreed with the accepted views we would never move forward.
Is he a genius that is misunderstood or a crank? I am not qualified to say. Even though I have called him the later on several occasions, I have only done it because I have fallen victim to frustrations with his method of not clearly explaining.
And if he isn't a genius than I feel I should be able to make him understand. Even though that has so far failed.
Surely it's possible that one of us can make the other understand.
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #32 on: 10/02/2016 08:36:20 »
While he continually demands answers from us, I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for him to answer those few you just asked of him.

Just saying...................................
I've asked a number of questions and get no answers, I can't see you getting any.
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #33 on: 10/02/2016 13:26:57 »
So please enlighten me.
What do all these measurements of time that we use and compare to each other, that consistently produce data that agrees with our theory of time, actually mean by your definition.
And if they are not related to time itself, then what are they related to.


I'm listening. Convince me.

I am 42 hardly young.

Ok, it is good that you are willing to listen and not just hear history .

Let us  imagine we go back in time, to a period where we was going to measure time using a sundial.

You say, ''we will measure time using the shadow of the sun that seems consistent, and we will measure the shadow and see if this is consistent, and we will use this consistency to measure time which is consistent''.


me- ''but sir, ask yourself this, are you really measuring time ? are you not just relatively measuring the shadows motion relative to the suns motion relative to yourself?''


Now ask yourself sir, any time device measurer ever invented, what exactly are you measuring?

Each one you are measuring something relative to yourself and relative to the something.  Neither being relative to time. Anything after 0 is history, there is no arrows of time.











« Last Edit: 10/02/2016 13:29:15 by Thebox »
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #34 on: 10/02/2016 21:09:43 »
Ok. A lot of new questions arrising from what you just said but I'll shelve those for now, so I can establish some first principles.
Remember that this is your story and I come into it with no preconceptions. That having been said, I can not ask myself anything. I have a bunch of data and I am dependent on you to turn that into a coherent picture for me.
All I have so far is your claim that all this data has nothing to do with time. I will have to get back to this later as it seems I have to understand what time is and how I can get real according to you data.

If you are really saying that time itself has nothing to do with the way we test and measure its characteristics than how would you measure and test your concept of time?
So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #35 on: 10/02/2016 22:16:09 »

So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?


You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording.
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #36 on: 10/02/2016 23:05:36 »
You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording.
Remember that I know nothing here.
I want to know and understand. I work in the film industry and am familiar with cameras. Your answer to my question did not make me understand.
Quote from: Space Flow on Today at 08:09:43

So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?


You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording.
How? What is the experiment you propose I do with a camcorder, and what predicted data do you say I will get to prove what?

Quote from: Space Flow on 10 February 2016, 14:10:07
If you are really saying that time itself has nothing to do with the way we test and measure its characteristics than how would you measure and test your concept of time?
So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?

This is the question I as your student have posed. I need to get inside your head. I have to understand what time is and how it works. You are my teacher. So teach me.
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #37 on: 11/02/2016 11:12:03 »
You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording.
Remember that I know nothing here.
I want to know and understand. I work in the film industry and am familiar with cameras. Your answer to my question did not make me understand.
Quote from: Space Flow on Today at 08:09:43

So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?


You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording.
How? What is the experiment you propose I do with a camcorder, and what predicted data do you say I will get to prove what?

Quote from: Space Flow on 10 February 2016, 14:10:07
If you are really saying that time itself has nothing to do with the way we test and measure its characteristics than how would you measure and test your concept of time?
So how can I get real data to help me first understand time?

This is the question I as your student have posed. I need to get inside your head. I have to understand what time is and how it works. You are my teacher. So teach me.

Wow you are really good.

''Remember that I know nothing here.
I want to know and understand. I work in the film industry and am familiar with cameras. Your answer to my question did not make me understand.''

In understanding time , it is important to understand what time is and all the aspects of measuring time.  Your brain records information of time in real time because of the constant speed of light information where as a clock does not record information it only gives an increment measurement of  a period of history .
In recording information, our brains record information likewise to FPS( frames per second) , a frame as you know is a set distance and speed , frames per second of a constant nature is an ideal system if we wanted to use it for recording/measuring continuous time .

A camcorder records time in real time likewise to our brains, the camera never lies using the same principle of light as the brain uses, and FPS of the recording of the camera is an exact equal measurement of time as to the brain.

Now if you was to travel a journey at speed X away from me and away from the Earth to set distance B, and we calculated this journey took 1 gig of recording space . Both you and I with a synchronised recording start , will both fill the 1 gig simultaneously of the camcorder space. The frames per second remain simultaneous.

I may edit in a while got visitors sorry.


added - So when you reach destination B, the camera recording shows you both aged exactly 1 gig






« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 11:15:03 by Thebox »
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #38 on: 11/02/2016 11:47:34 »
How is this connected to
In understanding time , it is important to understand what time is and all the aspects of measuring time.
this.
You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording
So what you are saying is that my camcorder which uses an atomic vibration rate for its timing of frames per second, will behave differently from another atomic device sitting next to it the whole time?
Teacher please explain. Why would one atomic process be effected and not another.
And how am I to come to your understanding of what time is.
See from where I am sitting at the moment, I am very confused. You are telling me to not trust one timing device but to trust another.
That would be OK if you gave me some good reason for your strange claim, but you haven't.
I am still totally ignorant as to what this concept you call time is and how it can be tested to show that your model is preferable to any other that might exist.
I am new to this Universe so don't attribute any knowledge of the way things work to me.
I have access to observation and you to explain it to me.
Now if you was to travel a journey at speed X away from me and away from the Earth to set distance B, and we calculated this journey took 1 gig of recording space . Both you and I with a synchronised recording start , will both fill the 1 gig simultaneously of the camcorder space. The frames per second remain simultaneous.
So teacher why is a camcorder a more accurate atomic clock than any other atomic clock?
Please help because all the evidence I can find points to that not being true.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 11:49:40 by Space Flow »
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #39 on: 11/02/2016 11:58:49 »
How is this connected to
In understanding time , it is important to understand what time is and all the aspects of measuring time.
this.
You can get real data from time, and hopefully to help you understand time, by using any camcorder that is continuously recording
So what you are saying is that my camcorder which uses an atomic vibration rate for its timing of frames per second, will behave differently from another atomic device sitting next to it the whole time?
Teacher please explain. Why would one atomic process be effected and not another.
And how am I to come to your understanding of what time is.
See from where I am sitting at the moment, I am very confused. You are telling me to not trust one timing device but to trust another.
That would be OK if you gave me some good reason for your strange claim, but you haven't.
I am still totally ignorant as to what this concept you call time is and how it can be tested to show that your model is preferable to any other that might exist.
I am new to this Universe so don't attribute any knowledge of the way things work to me.
I have access to observation and you to explain it to me.
Now if you was to travel a journey at speed X away from me and away from the Earth to set distance B, and we calculated this journey took 1 gig of recording space . Both you and I with a synchronised recording start , will both fill the 1 gig simultaneously of the camcorder space. The frames per second remain simultaneous.
So teacher why is a camcorder a more accurate atomic clock than any other atomic clock?
Please help because all the evidence I can find points to that not being true.

Time is constant, it flows at a constant rate, to record time the recording also has to record at a constant rate.  We are not using atomic camcorders, we are using standard camcorders.


Both our 1 gig hard drives start of at 0 and end at 0 until we start the journey. 

you   0.....................0


me   0.....................0



The 1 gig of space is our frame, you will travel to B


you 0.....................B



I will remain stationary

me 0.....................A


We are going to use the constant rate of  camcorders to time our journey, we are using the camcorder as a clock.


No matter what your speed or acceleration is at the end of the journey the results will show we both timed simultaneously time.

If you watched my footage and I watched your footage we would observe each other ageing at the same rate. If we both watched both footages at the same time, we would observe we both age simultaneous while watching the footage.


added- or try it this way, you are going on a aeroplane journey, you are going to watch a movie, the movie is exactly 2 hours long, I am watching the same movie awaiting your arrival, the trip takes exactly two hours, We start watching the movie simultaneously, you arrive, where is there any time/age  difference?












« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 12:17:03 by Thebox »
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #40 on: 11/02/2016 12:25:41 »
Time is constant, it flows at a constant rate, to record time the recording also has to record at a constant rate.  We are not using atomic camcorders, we are using standard camcorders.
Standard camcorders have electronic or crystal lock timing circuits to operate by otherwise they can not time a constant FPS rate. They are just another atomic clock. A timing device. The crystal vibrating at a set rate is divided down to give you your 24 exposures every second. If you went into the specs, it is quite likely that the timing accuracy is stated, in parts per trillion. Dependent on their own internal timing circuit.
They are just another clock.

So you predict that two timing mechanisms, properly calibrated  running on exactly the same recording settings will take exactly the same observed time as observed by both frames of reference, even if one is accelerated to the almost the speed of light while recording.
Is that my lesson? Now that to me from my limited knowledge is the Newtonian view of time.
Is that what you want me to learn that time and therefore the Universe is Newtonian?
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #41 on: 11/02/2016 14:39:35 »
Time is constant, it flows at a constant rate, to record time the recording also has to record at a constant rate.  We are not using atomic camcorders, we are using standard camcorders.
Standard camcorders have electronic or crystal lock timing circuits to operate by otherwise they can not time a constant FPS rate. They are just another atomic clock. A timing device. The crystal vibrating at a set rate is divided down to give you your 24 exposures every second. If you went into the specs, it is quite likely that the timing accuracy is stated, in parts per trillion. Dependent on their own internal timing circuit.
They are just another clock.

So you predict that two timing mechanisms, properly calibrated  running on exactly the same recording settings will take exactly the same observed time as observed by both frames of reference, even if one is accelerated to the almost the speed of light while recording.
Is that my lesson? Now that to me from my limited knowledge is the Newtonian view of time.
Is that what you want me to learn that time and therefore the Universe is Newtonian?


I never knew Newton did time, but nether mind, if Newton says the rate of time can't change, then yes all good.
 

Offline Space Flow

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #42 on: 11/02/2016 18:14:44 »
Quote from: Thebox on 11 February 2016, 22:32:20
You measure time by various means, so how do you conceive that the rate of the clock affects what you are measuring?

Thebox please just stop it. You have repeatably been told by a large number of people that it is only you that claims that this is what everyone else is saying.
WE consistently write one thing and you consistently read another.
That is not good communication skills.

Now take out some paper and write 100 times;
"Nobody conceives that the rate of the clock affects what is being measured
".
Quote from: Thebox on 11 February 2016, 22:32:20
I will stop it when you stop calling it a time dilation.?

So it is clear as you just stated that you are intentionally and deliberately intending to misquote anything I say.
I have tried to communicate with you mr Box.
But this is it. No more communication attempts from me.
It is one thing to be misunderstood for whatever reasons. When you make a statement like above, you declare yourself as a deliberate liar.
I can not stand liars.

Good bye.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2016 18:23:20 by Space Flow »
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #43 on: 12/02/2016 10:00:15 »
Quote from: Thebox on 11 February 2016, 22:32:20
You measure time by various means, so how do you conceive that the rate of the clock affects what you are measuring?

Thebox please just stop it. You have repeatably been told by a large number of people that it is only you that claims that this is what everyone else is saying.
WE consistently write one thing and you consistently read another.
That is not good communication skills.

Now take out some paper and write 100 times;
"Nobody conceives that the rate of the clock affects what is being measured
".
Quote from: Thebox on 11 February 2016, 22:32:20
I will stop it when you stop calling it a time dilation.?

So it is clear as you just stated that you are intentionally and deliberately intending to misquote anything I say.
I have tried to communicate with you mr Box.
But this is it. No more communication attempts from me.
It is one thing to be misunderstood for whatever reasons. When you make a statement like above, you declare yourself as a deliberate liar.
I can not stand liars.

Good bye.

Gave you all the info you needed did I? 
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #44 on: 12/02/2016 15:07:25 »
Gave you all the info you needed did I?
You gave him more than enough to enable an accurate judgement.
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #45 on: 12/02/2016 21:11:23 »
Gave you all the info you needed did I?
You gave him more than enough to enable an accurate judgement.

You could never make an accurate judgement without seeing my hand expressions and gestures.  And people seem to forget that I do have a life and have to try to fit  science in has fast as I can, I'm always rushing, sometimes I get word tied ,  a bit like tongue twisted.

 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #46 on: 12/02/2016 21:23:11 »


You could never make an accurate judgement without seeing my hand expressions and gestures. 
Send us a video...............................
 

Online Thebox

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #47 on: 12/02/2016 22:12:48 »


You could never make an accurate judgement without seeing my hand expressions and gestures. 
Send us a video...............................

Lol dude, I would gladly do a video if I had a narrative voice, I hate my own voice , accents is a killer.
 

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Re: For space flow
« Reply #47 on: 12/02/2016 22:12:48 »

 

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