The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Are black-holes preventing our "bubble" from popping?  (Read 1298 times)

Offline Mohammad Alkenni

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
while seeing a balloon flying away in the distance I started thinking about our universe and how it work and how the sun shine upon us with its beautifully radiant and warm light and i started thinking about the four fundamental forces of nature: electromagnetism, the strong and weak nuclear forces, and gravity and how the sun electromagnetic force hold us all together and all the planets and stars above us including us swim in this vast space to the unknown.


and that got me thinking about black holes and what its purpose, because everything in this solar system of ours or what I would like to call it the “Bubble” has a purpose or a function for our own existence in this earth of ours for example did you know that if it wasn't for Jupiter the earth would been long gone by meteors and our existence as species wouldn't be possible, so we give our thanks to Jupiter, also the stars its used on earth for navigation hopefully in the near future will use them to navigate between solar systems and even galaxies, and of course the sun, without it we can’t sustain life on earth, and so on and so forth I can give you hundreds of examples that we know without it life on earth wouldn’t exist.
All that got me thinking about black-holes and I started asking myself where do black-holes come to play, or fit if you will in this grand design of the universe.


so what do black-holes have to do with our life, as we all know a black-holes is a region in space where the pulling force of gravity is so strong that light is not able to escape. the strong gravity occurs because matter has been pressed into a tiny space and its formed from a dead star that it sucks everything out including light and throw it to another dimension or another galaxy or another solar system no one knows yet so how black holes are helping us today to survive in our solar system or bubble.


I theories that black holes works as a pressure release mechanism for our solar system the bubble, since the big bang and our universe is expanding. and so is our bubble and its filled with stars planets and it turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. dark matter makes up about 27% and with all of this our bubble gets bigger and bigger by the second so theoretically speaking black-holes exists to sustain the pressure of our bubble to keep it from expanding too fast and pop.


 imagine with me If you overfill a water balloon, it can pop before you even tie it, but what if you make a hole on it to allow the excess water to leak out preventing the balloon from exploding and by that you’ll be releasing the pressure, and as more water you pour inside the balloon the more holes you have to make in order to compensate for the pressure of water inside the balloon so that you prevent it from POPPING. so maybe that’s what black-hole is for to suck or DRAIN all the extra dark matter and energy in order to sustain the pressure of our solar system bubble and to prevent it from expanding so much so that our solar system Bubble wont pop, the thing is our solar system keeps on expanding and it will keep on doing so, and in order for our bubble to keep on existing I think black holes need to exist in order to preserve the bubble pressure and prevent it from POPPING.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2016 17:47:22 by chris »


 

Offline MurBob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is black-holes preventing our "bubble" from POPPING?
« Reply #1 on: 04/02/2016 06:40:03 »
as we all know a black-holes is a region in space where the pulling force of gravity is so strong that light is not able to escape. the strong gravity occurs because matter has been pressed into a tiny space and its formed from a dead star that it sucks everything out including light and throw it to another dimension or another galaxy or another solar system no one knows yet so how black holes are helping us today to survive in our solar system or bubble.

Common misconceptions or misunderstandings..    Gravity is not what stops light from escaping a black hole and nothing that passes the event horizon goes anywhere.

Mass bends and warps space-time.    Imagine a large sheet of paper as the fabric of space-time with an ant as light walking across it.   When the paper is flat, the can walk a straight line across the paper.  Now if you crumble up the paper and lay it flat again, the paper will have wrinkles and waves.  Even though the ant walks a straight line across the paper again, it must go up and down with the folds and creases in the paper.   Now imagine if you put the ant on the paper and folded the paper around the ant.  The ant could walk around within the folded up paper but would never get out because it just keeps going around inside.

That's why light can't escape a black hole.. Mass has bent and folded space to such extremes that there's no where for the light to escape.

« Last Edit: 04/02/2016 06:53:47 by MurBob »
 
The following users thanked this post: Mohammad Alkenni

Offline MurBob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is black-holes preventing our "bubble" from POPPING?
« Reply #2 on: 04/02/2016 06:42:47 »
imagine with me If you overfill a water balloon, it can pop before you even tie it, but what if you make a hole on it to allow the excess water to leak out preventing the balloon from exploding and by that you’ll be releasing the pressure, and as more water you pour inside the balloon the more holes you have to make in order to compensate for the pressure of water inside the balloon so that you prevent it from POPPING. so maybe that’s what black-hole is for to suck or DRAIN all the extra dark matter and energy in order to sustain the pressure of our solar system bubble and to prevent it from expanding so much so that our solar system Bubble wont pop, the thing is our solar system keeps on expanding and it will keep on doing so, and in order for our bubble to keep on existing I think black holes need to exist in order to preserve the bubble pressure and prevent it from POPPING.

I'm not sure if you're just throwing out poor metaphors (I'm guilty of that sometimes)  or if your understanding of astrophysics needs work.. but your statements don't make any sense.
 
The following users thanked this post: Mohammad Alkenni

Offline Space Flow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 400
  • Thanked: 31 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is black-holes preventing our "bubble" from POPPING?
« Reply #3 on: 04/02/2016 07:29:35 »
All too complicated. It appears to be a long standing human habit. When we don't understand something we make as complicated a story as possible about what might be. Whether it's religion or science the pattern is the same.
Quantum Physics leeds us to a singularity of infinite Mass and no Space.
General Relativity, dealing with Gravitationally Curved Static Spacetime, dumps us at the Event Horizon, with no further hints to an explanation.
Nature on the other hand tends to prove time and again that it likes the simpler paths.
So how about we face these Black Stars from basic principles.
One interpretation of General Relativity does give us an insight. That is "Space Flow" Theory. It removes the totally unjustified restriction so far put on Spacetime to be a static set of coordinates and in the process creates a better fit for all available data.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=999378540105442&id=595088680534432
We have some very good theories backed up by observation of the way Matter behaves as pressure increases.
We can pack just under 1.4 Solar masses into a small space and have it get no smaller, as the strength of the EM field maintains a certain amount of space between a nucleus and it's associated electron/s. (Electron Degeneracy Pressure)
When that compact mass reaches 1.4 Solar masses (Chandrasekhar limit), the inward pressure overcomes the Electro Magnetic force's ability to maintain that spacing and forces the electrons to recombine with the protons in the nucleus, forming just Neutrons.
Spacetime very rapidly crushes in till the whole thing gets compressed further until it tries to compress the Neutrons. We now have a neutron star. Tremendous pressure inwards being held at bay by Neutron Degeneracy Pressure. In other words by the Neutron's need of personal space. The radius of the Neutron star is not very much greater than that Star’s Event Horizon
If the mass is or builds to a couple of solar masses, the inward pressure becomes so massive that the "Pauli Exclusion Principle", the requirement by every Neutron to maintain a certain amount of personal space, is overcome.
Neutrons in giving up this space can no longer exist as Neutrons.
A Black Hole is born.
Now we can't see anything. An event horizon is thus formed for all Electromagnetic radiation.
The equations without any knowledge to mediate them will of course run to infinity leaving us with an incomprehensible singularity.
Now the obvious logical question seems to me:
Why can't a Black Hole be a Quark compact Mass?
So let's look at the pattern of behaviour developed above.
We overcame Electron Degeneracy Pressure, to come up against Neutron Degeneracy Pressure. We overcame Neutron Degeneracy Pressure, and even though we now can't see the result, why shouldn't we follow the pattern to it's next logical stage and stop further collapse when we hit Quark soup.
After all a Neutron was not a fundamental particle. The 3 Quarks in each Neutron are the Fundamental Particles.
All 3 forces are a part of Quarks and their heavier cousins. Just because they are inside their event horizon, is no reason to believe that all the forces concentrated within elemental particles, (Matter/Energy) are not an equal match with anything Spacetime could give. I not for an instant can bring myself to believe matter/energy can be pushed into a singularity.
An Event Horizon does not have to be an arbitrary point in space around a singularity.
It can be an actual surface of a body made entirely of Quarks, rapidly spinning and so compacted that Electromagnetic Radiation (If Quarks alone produce any) can't leave the surface.
Movement is Temperature, and no Matter can reach absolute zero.
All and any movement by Matter uses up space, even the vibration of a Quark. That space must be replaced for the Quark to keep vibrating.
In a Black Hole we therefore have a balance between Quarks demand for more space, and Space's flow and compression (density) limits. This balance point is what we see as an Event Horizon. The point in space that represents the maximum compression (density) and Flow rate of Spacetime, at any one moment. And also the Quark surface of the Black Hole.
We can't see it by Electromagnetic Radiation, but it is wrong to say No Information leave's a Black Hole. By the amount of demand on Space it is telling us exactly how much Mass it represents.
That is information from the other side of the Event Horizon.
If we were to believe the Quantum point of view and have everything at a point in the centre, then we don't only have to deal with infinity, but with different Black Holes, we would have different infinities.
How ridiculous is that?
In the absence of observational and experimental data, all hypothesis have to carry the same weight.
But. Occam's Razor states...
Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2016 07:56:32 by Space Flow »
 
The following users thanked this post: Mohammad Alkenni, MurBob

Offline evan_au

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4113
  • Thanked: 245 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is black-holes preventing our "bubble" from POPPING?
« Reply #4 on: 04/02/2016 09:58:52 »
Quote from: Mohammad Alkenni
that got me thinking about black holes and what its purpose
By "purpose", do you mean: "How do humans benefit from black holes"?

I suggest that most of the heavier elements in your body and in the Earth were spewed into space in the same supernova that created the black hole.

The gravitational energy that had to be overcome to seed dust clouds in space with these elements from the cores of massive stars was paid for by the gravitational (and neutrino) energy that was released in the formation of the black hole.
 
The following users thanked this post: Mohammad Alkenni

Offline MurBob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is black-holes preventing our "bubble" from POPPING?
« Reply #5 on: 04/02/2016 15:25:07 »
All too complicated. It appears to be a long standing human habit. When we don't understand something we make as complicated a story as possible about what might be. Whether it's religion or science the pattern is the same.
Quantum Physics leeds us to a singularity of infinite Mass and no Space.
General Relativity, dealing with Gravitationally Curved Static Spacetime, dumps us at the Event Horizon, with no further hints to an explanation.
Nature on the other hand tends to prove time and again that it likes the simpler paths.
So how about we face these Black Stars from basic principles.
One interpretation of General Relativity does give us an insight. That is "Space Flow" Theory. It removes the totally unjustified restriction so far put on Spacetime to be a static set of coordinates and in the process creates a better fit for all available data.

We have some very good theories backed up by observation of the way Matter behaves as pressure increases.
We can pack just under 1.4 Solar masses into a small space and have it get no smaller, as the strength of the EM field maintains a certain amount of space between a nucleus and it's associated electron/s. (Electron Degeneracy Pressure)
When that compact mass reaches 1.4 Solar masses (Chandrasekhar limit), the inward pressure overcomes the Electro Magnetic force's ability to maintain that spacing and forces the electrons to recombine with the protons in the nucleus, forming just Neutrons.
Spacetime very rapidly crushes in till the whole thing gets compressed further until it tries to compress the Neutrons. We now have a neutron star. Tremendous pressure inwards being held at bay by Neutron Degeneracy Pressure. In other words by the Neutron's need of personal space. The radius of the Neutron star is not very much greater than that Star’s Event Horizon
If the mass is or builds to a couple of solar masses, the inward pressure becomes so massive that the "Pauli Exclusion Principle", the requirement by every Neutron to maintain a certain amount of personal space, is overcome.
Neutrons in giving up this space can no longer exist as Neutrons.
A Black Hole is born.
Now we can't see anything. An event horizon is thus formed for all Electromagnetic radiation.
The equations without any knowledge to mediate them will of course run to infinity leaving us with an incomprehensible singularity.
Now the obvious logical question seems to me:
Why can't a Black Hole be a Quark compact Mass?
So let's look at the pattern of behaviour developed above.
We overcame Electron Degeneracy Pressure, to come up against Neutron Degeneracy Pressure. We overcame Neutron Degeneracy Pressure, and even though we now can't see the result, why shouldn't we follow the pattern to it's next logical stage and stop further collapse when we hit Quark soup.
After all a Neutron was not a fundamental particle. The 3 Quarks in each Neutron are the Fundamental Particles.
All 3 forces are a part of Quarks and their heavier cousins. Just because they are inside their event horizon, is no reason to believe that all the forces concentrated within elemental particles, (Matter/Energy) are not an equal match with anything Spacetime could give. I not for an instant can bring myself to believe matter/energy can be pushed into a singularity.
An Event Horizon does not have to be an arbitrary point in space around a singularity.
It can be an actual surface of a body made entirely of Quarks, rapidly spinning and so compacted that Electromagnetic Radiation (If Quarks alone produce any) can't leave the surface.
Movement is Temperature, and no Matter can reach absolute zero.
All and any movement by Matter uses up space, even the vibration of a Quark. That space must be replaced for the Quark to keep vibrating.
In a Black Hole we therefore have a balance between Quarks demand for more space, and Space's flow and compression (density) limits. This balance point is what we see as an Event Horizon. The point in space that represents the maximum compression (density) and Flow rate of Spacetime, at any one moment. And also the Quark surface of the Black Hole.
We can't see it by Electromagnetic Radiation, but it is wrong to say No Information leave's a Black Hole. By the amount of demand on Space it is telling us exactly how much Mass it represents.
That is information from the other side of the Event Horizon.
If we were to believe the Quantum point of view and have everything at a point in the centre, then we don't only have to deal with infinity, but with different Black Holes, we would have different infinities.
How ridiculous is that?
In the absence of observational and experimental data, all hypothesis have to carry the same weight.
But. Occam's Razor states...
Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

I couldn't have said it better.....   
 
The following users thanked this post: Space Flow

Offline Mohammad Alkenni

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Are black-holes preventing our "bubble" from popping?
« Reply #6 on: 05/02/2016 09:39:18 »
other dimension or another
so every scientist in the world is wrong  and you are right huh!!!???

but seriously thanks for your comment
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Are black-holes preventing our "bubble" from popping?
« Reply #6 on: 05/02/2016 09:39:18 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length