The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??  (Read 914 times)

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« on: 08/02/2016 19:36:34 »
Any increasingly complex chemical reaction system undergo a sort of natural selection and some kind of survival of the fittest chemical reactions. Thus,  more and more sustainable systems of reactions will be selected and prevail in the final mixture. But what is life other than a collection of sustainable chemical systems?
 
Here are some interesting references on the problem of the origin of life:
 
a) The Bacteria: Their Origin, Structure, Function and Antibiosis By Arthur L. Koch; 2007.
 
 
B) http://philica.com/d...?article_id=483


Any comments?


 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #1 on: 10/02/2016 13:58:59 »
all reactions have a degree of unpredictability, but decisions must be made..
 

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #2 on: 13/02/2016 12:53:54 »
all reactions have a degree of unpredictability, but decisions must be made..
Not necessarily!! I will give you an example! Some say that life must have a sort of organization, or else we would say that Shakespeare's plays are only some words and letters,, or even some ink on the paper!

However, from all the millions and trillions of things that had been said written in walls, rocks, papers, etc, during the last 5000-10000 years we only have Shakespeare. Why? Because his plays were selected from history, as the most sustainable ones!! The same thing happened with other works. For instance, Homer's poems were not even written on paper for thousands of years, yet they survived: because of their quality.
And yes, Shakespeare's works are indeed something random to the eyes of a non-human being such as a cat, a bird, etc.....

What i want to say is that, even chemical reactions can evolve in such a way that the most sustainable combinations will eventually be in the final mixture...
 

Offline the5thforce

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #3 on: 14/02/2016 02:51:18 »
a good reaction is one that replicates desireably, survival of the most aesthetically associated randomness
 

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #4 on: 17/02/2016 14:59:08 »
a good reaction is one that replicates desireably, survival of the most aesthetically associated randomness
Aesthetics is a driving force for evolution, because it is an indicator of health. (Survival of the prettiest).
Additionally, aesthetics is also actually what enables the pandas to survive, because of human made efforts. These animals would have disappeared if it wasn't for human. They appear not to be interested in sex at all.
 

Online chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1874
  • Thanked: 143 times
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #5 on: 17/02/2016 15:30:59 »

B) http://philica.com/d...?article_id=483



This link is dead for me. Can you send some identifying info so I can search philica for it? Thanks!
 

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
 

Offline sam7

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #7 on: 23/02/2016 07:40:59 »
Of course everything is subject to natural selection, including chemical reactions. The formation of heavier elements over time in the universe is not a new idea. Or, if you mean the conditions of the universe out of many possible states that is also not a new idea. What exactly did you have in mind anyway?
 

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #8 on: 27/02/2016 09:08:59 »
Of course everything is subject to natural selection, including chemical reactions. The formation of heavier elements over time in the universe is not a new idea. Or, if you mean the conditions of the universe out of many possible states that is also not a new idea. What exactly did you have in mind anyway?
There is an idea that, we are made from chemical reactions and we are the results of million-years processes on earth. And we serve as the observers, despite the fact that we are only chemical reactions.
In the same way, if a planet hypothetically was an observer, what it will perceive? That all physical and chemical laws, as well as the initial conditions and amount of matter on our solar are exactly such that, the creation of planets are favored....and everything evolved until their creation, which is the most sustainable state from all previous ones, given the existing natural laws....
 

Offline minass

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2016 10:26:20 »
Apart from the solar energy, dis-equillibrium on primordialearth was maintained:
1) By the different isoforms that organic stereochemistry pose, which adds to the diversity and mechanics that is needed to avoid equillibrium....

2)Hydrophobicity (hydrophobic bonds, spatial configuration, separation and isolation of chemical systems, membranes, etc
3)And apart from that, another crucial factor that shapes life is the property of some molecules to strongly adhere to each other, or to adhere on membranes. In fact, if you put living cells and dead cells in a flask, then you can sort them easily because only the living ones will strongly adhere to the walls. Actually, if you want to see how life was created, a good way is to follow the "stickiness"....
To see the importance of stickiness, take for instance the sponges. Recent studies has shown that they were one of the first organisms on earth, along with corals.
They don’t seem quite like the other animals. In fact, I would say that they are something in between, more like random chemical systems. However, the strong adhesions between molecules (as well as multiple other factors) in sponges makes those systems sustainable over time. In fact, they were created because they were not destroyed. They can sustain themselves for millennia. The same thing happens with corals. These systems could serve as something like “chemical labs” performing chemical experiments for thousands of years before they die. Any chemical novelty that can sustain itself will survive and will be selected. And we know today that reproduction is one of the best strategies. So, a sponge before it dies, maybe can create other sponges, or something similar. Maybe this is why sponges and corals have now multiple reproductive strategies.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: SURVIVAL OF FITTEST CHEMICAL REACTIONS->LIFE??
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2016 10:26:20 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length