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Author Topic: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?  (Read 9077 times)

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #25 on: 20/01/2013 18:11:33 »
In the article "Electromagnetism explained by the Theory of Informatons" (http://vixra.org/abs/1301.0114) the electromagnetic phenomena and interactions are explained by the hypothesis that "information" (more accurate: "e-information") is the substance of the electromagnetic field.  The constituent element of that substance is called "an informaton".

According to "the Theory of Informatons" every material object manifests itself in space by the emission of informatons: granular mass and energy less entities that rush away with the speed of light, carrying information about the position, the velocity and the electrical status of the emitter.

In the article "Electromagnetism explained by the Theory of Informatons":
- The electromagnetic field (E,B) in a point is characterized as the macroscopic manifestation of the presence of a cloud of informatons near that point
- Maxwell's laws are mathematically deduced from the dynamics of the informatons
- The electromagnetic interactions are explained as the effect of the trend of an electrically charged object to become blind for flows of e-information generated by other charged objects
- Photons are identified as informatons carrying a quantum of energy, what helps us to understand the strange behaviour of light as described by QEM

illusion

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #26 on: 20/01/2013 18:37:21 »
Most certainly EM and gravitation are related. Both of them are distributed through the same space and obey inverse-square law. Even child can tell that they are somehow related  :D


But informatons... nah.. I'm more like a ether believer  8D


Ethos_

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #27 on: 25/01/2013 00:53:08 »
In the article "Electromagnetism explained by the Theory of Informatons" (http://vixra.org/abs/1301.0114) the electromagnetic phenomena and interactions are explained by the hypothesis that "information" (more accurate: "e-information") is the substance of the electromagnetic field.  The constituent element of that substance is called "an informaton".


We could call them; "Infotrons", or maybe, "Infomats". Nah............Let's just continue to call them "Photons".

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #28 on: 25/01/2013 10:36:56 »
There is a big difference between a "photon" and what is called an "informaton".

The theory of informatons about gravitation and electromagnetism starts from the idea that any material object manifests itself in space by the emission of "informatons".  The rest mass of the object is the only factor that determines the rate at which this happens (# 25 - paper referenced:I).  According to the theory of informatons, informatons are at the basis of gravitational and electromagnetic phenomena.

Photons are emitted by accelerated electrically charged objects (for exemple by a point charge that harmonically oscillates).  In 6 of the paper referenced, the hypothesis is developed that some of the informatons emitted by an accelerated charge take along a quantum of energy, that they appear as "photons".  The wave character of light can be understood as the macroscopic manifestation of the dynamics of the informatons, and the corpuscular character as the manifestation of the fact that some of them are carriers of a quantum of energy.

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #29 on: 09/06/2013 16:46:55 »
Gravito-electromagnetism (GEM) describes the gravitational phenomena by introducing a gravitational field that can be viewed as a combination of two fields: a force field and an induction field.  It is assumed (Heaviside, Jefimenko, ...) that this composite field - that serves as a mediator for the gravitational interactions - is isomorphic with the electromagnetic field.

In the article "INFORMATION AS THE SUBSTANCE OF GRAVITATIONAL FIELDS"  (http://viXra.org/abs/1306.0008)  it is shown that the GEM-description of the gravitational interaction between two - whether or not moving particles - can perfectly be explained by the hypothesis that "information carried by informatons" is the substance of gravitational fields.
« Last Edit: 09/06/2013 16:48:49 by ernst39 »

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #30 on: 22/02/2015 15:32:46 »
In the article "Fundamentals of the Theory of Informatons" (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272506055_Fundamentals_of_the_Theory_of_Informatons)  the following topics are discussed:

1. Space as an imaginary boundless three-dimensional continuum in which objects and events can be located.
2. Time as an imaginary one-dimensional continuum in which events can be dated.
3. Reference frames as coordinate systems used to represent the position and the orientatien of objects and events at  a particular time.
4. Mass as the source of informatons.
5. Gravitational and electromagnetic fields as the macroscopic manifestations of the attributes of the informatons.
6. Gravitons and photons as informatons carrying a quantum of energy.

This article is complementary to more technical presentations of the theory of informatons published in vol 36/4 and vol 36/6 of HADRONIC JOURNAL (http://www.hadronicpress.com).

PmbPhy

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #31 on: 24/02/2015 17:53:24 »
Quote from: ernst39
I suppose that a photon is an energy package transported by a carrier (VI,5).  I call that carrier an "informaton".
I'm sorry to inform you but in essence all you did is rename the photon. The particle that carries EM energy is by definition the photon.

Quote from: ernst39
The rate at which an object emits informatons depends only on his rest mass and not on his state of motion or on his electrical charge, factors that are essential for the emission of energy packages.
That is incorrect. It's the temperature of the body which determines the rate at which a body emits energy, not the rest mass.

Quote from: ernst39
  A (whether or not charged) object at rest or describing a uniform motion doesn't emit energy packages at all.
That too is incorrect. Have you never heard of the battery powered laser pointer? It can be at rest in the inertial frame S and emit photons.

Quote from: ernst39
That implies that, in the case of interactions between masses and between charges at rest or uniformly moving, there are no photons available.
Untrue for the above reasons. Plus you need to understand that all you did is to rename photon as "informaton". 

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #32 on: 24/02/2015 19:58:55 »
Quote 1:
In &6 of the article,  I identify an "informaton carrying an energy package" with a "photon".  I don't believe that this is contrary to the classical definition, it's a specification.

Quote 2:
"The rate at which an object emits informatons depends only on its rest mass and not on its state of motion or on its electrical charge (factors that are essential for the emission of energy packages)". 
The theory of informatons starts from the hypothesis that a particle manifests its substantiallity by emitting informatons.
If an electrically charged particle is accelerated it is a source of EM energy.  In the context of the theory of informatons that means: some of the emitted informatons are loaded with a package of energy (and appear to the observer as photons). 
The temperature of a body is a macroscopic measure for the movements (oscillations) of the constituent particles on microscopic level.

Quote 3
The source of the emission of EM energy are accelerating particles at the microscopic level.

Quote 4
I did not rename the "photon" (see reaction on quote1).  I have introduced the informaton as the constituent element of gravitational and EM fields.  The photon (an informaton carrying an energy package") is - in the frame of the theory of informatons - still the constituent element of EM radiation.

PmbPhy

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #33 on: 24/02/2015 21:43:57 »
Quote from: ernst39
In &6 of the article,  I identify an "informaton carrying an energy package" with a "photon".  I don't believe that this is contrary to the classical definition, it's a specification.
Why bother doing this at all?

Quote from: ernst39
... a particle manifests its substantiallity ...
What on Earth does "manifests its substantiality" mean?

Quote from: ernst39
"by emitting informatons"
You're doing yourself a disservice by renaming photons because you perceive them to be something different than the scientific community. When I see people to this it comes across as pseudoscience and the author is a crackpot. Is that the way you wish to be perceived? If not then please stop giving new names to old objects.

Quote from: ernst39
If an electrically charged particle is accelerated it is a source of EM energy.
This is off topic from what you're quoting. I was commenting on your claim that

Quote from: ernst39
The rate at which an object emits informatons depends only on his rest mass and not on his state of motion or on his electrical charge, factors that are essential for the emission of energy packages.
This appears to contradict what you just posted, i.e. If an electrically charged particle is accelerated it is a source of EM energy.

This is also getting off topic. You appear to think that objects at rest can't radiate energy, which is a false assumption. You're almost certainly thinking of charged particles and not complex bodies. E.g. atoms most certainly do radiate energy.

Also a particle has energy not only due to its rest mass but also due to the energy in its electric field.

Quote from: ernst39
The temperature of a body is a macroscopic measure for the movements (oscillations) of the constituent particles on microscopic level.
So what? If you were excluding macroscopic objects from your assertions then you should have stated that. But that's not what you implied when in your first post you wrote "The "theory of informatons" starts from the idea that a physical object manifests itself in space by emitting INFORMATONS." So you do speak of objects emitting photons.

Quote from: ernst39
The source of the emission of EM energy are accelerating particles at the microscopic level.
You're mistaken. There are other ways that EM energy is produced such as what I mentioned above, i.e. atoms transitioning from a higher energy level to a lower energy level emitting photons in the process. Nuclear reactions are another example.

Quote from: ernst39
I did not rename the "photon" (see reaction on quote1).
I missed something in my first read which I just caught. You claim that this thing called an information travels at the speed of light but has no energy. There's no such thing as a particle with such properties. Did you think you could simply "define" particles into existence? That's just plain nonsense. You're not talking about science anymore. You've sunken into the depths of science-fiction.

Quote from: ernst39
  I have introduced the informaton as the constituent element of gravitational and EM fields
You're acting like a crackpot now. See:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
Quote
14. 10 points for each new term you invent and use without properly defining it.
You failed to properly define "constituent element" as used in this context. Since gravitational and EM fields have energy and your informatons don't then "constituent element" is nonsense.

This is where I get off. I don't chat with crackpots anymore. Sorry.

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #34 on: 25/02/2015 12:32:54 »
And I don't discuss with persons who are biased. 
If you had made the effort to browse the article you would have seen what I mean with "substantiallity", how  an "object" and an "informaton" are defined, what it means that informatons are the "constituent elements" of gravitational and EM fields, under what conditions an electrical charged body emits EM-radiation (photons"), ...

Ethos_

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #35 on: 28/02/2015 18:02:39 »
And I don't discuss with persons who are biased. 

Everyone has some degree of bias even if only a very small degree. I have opinions and so do you. But in our forum, discussion is necessary if we are ever expected to learn and or share. Don't just ignore someone simply because they have differing views than you have. If they are reasonable and you are too, there is always the opportunity for one or both persons to learn. Frankly, that is what this forum should be about for every member that participates here. Even the brightest amongst us still has something to learn.

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #36 on: 01/03/2015 18:49:20 »
Ethos,

I agree with you.  I have no problems to discuss with reasonable people who have differing views and/or a different background than me, but I assume that a serious discussion requires  a minimum of respect.

Ernst39

PmbPhy

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #37 on: 02/03/2015 02:26:36 »
Quote from: ernst39
I agree with you.  I have no problems to discuss with reasonable people who have differing views and/or a different background than me, but I assume that a serious discussion requires  a minimum of respect.
Yeah, but  you've defined reasonable people as those people who agree with you and that's the problem. The fact is that I'm a very reasonable person when it comes to discussing physics. When it comes to people who insult me because I disagree with them then its a whole new ball of wax. And while I can't speak for others I can speak for myself and in my case I respect others until they stop being respectful to me because I prove them wrong or disagree with them and that's the case here.

A friend of mine was over this Saturday. I showed him your paper and he agreed with me that it was written by a crackpot. And this friend is far from being just your average everyday physicist. He's last years winner of the Kavli prize in Astrophysics: http://www.kavlifoundation.org/kavli-prize

ernst39

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #38 on: 02/03/2015 09:05:34 »
Yeah, but  you've defined reasonable people as those people who agree with you
Where do you find that "definition"?

A friend of mine was over this Saturday. I showed him your paper and he agreed with me that it was written by a crackpot. And this friend is far from being just your average everyday physicist. He's last years winner of the Kavli prize in Astrophysics: http://www.kavlifoundation.org/kavli-prize
Thank your friend in my name because he had spent time for the evaluation of the work of a "crackpot".
« Last Edit: 02/03/2015 16:49:18 by ernst39 »

PmbPhy

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Re: Are gravitation and electromagnetism related?
« Reply #39 on: 02/03/2015 17:28:01 »
Quote from: ernst39
Where do you find that "definition"?
Everyone here is intelligent enough to know that the way and what you post implies that's what you mean by it. Just ask them.

 

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