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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6447470 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12825 on: 15/04/2011 22:16:21 »

You want me to stop giving advice on what has helped me?  I understand the possibility of overdosing.  You can get information on any site about drugs. That's really their own responsibility.  I totally understand, but is there a way I can suggest a medication?


Just do what the rest of us do, which is to share our own personal experience. "This is what I do, and it's working for me." Not, "Here, try this."

And if you notice many of our posts, even when we say, "this is working for me", you'll notice a disclaimer: "but this is not meant as a suggestion for YOU."

To suggest a medication over the internet is generally not permitted ethically, even by physicians.

Thank you very much for understanding.
« Last Edit: 15/04/2011 22:46:25 by demografx »
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12826 on: 16/04/2011 00:14:27 »


The most amazing thing to me so far in this T/P experiment is how devastating POIS can be - even with no sperm!!! (Sorry, Dr Waldinger!). Wait, he did say SEMEN. :)

Even if the zero-sperm is a result of testosterone treatment, I am not 100% cured, I am 80%.

And - believe me - I have had some LULU 20%-days!!!!





My experience also confirms that same observation. I was surprised also. Because after I had the oriectomy I could not produce sperm, yet I still had pretty much the same amount of ejaculate. And I still had significant POIS. It lessened the POIS, but was not away completely. For me it was more like 20% better instead of 80% though.

Now that I think of it, maybe more of us should get our semen analyzed if possible. If one can afford it. Just to have a "baseline" measurement to compare to later. What do you think?

That in addition to getting the full hormonal analysis too!  :)
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12827 on: 16/04/2011 00:19:08 »

Demo T/P Update Day 4


I'm sorry guys, but if this drowsiness doesn't improve enough, I'll have to quit.

I hope it improves, demo!!
You're doing valuable research for all of us! Can we send you some extra strength coffee? :)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12828 on: 16/04/2011 00:46:37 »
Haha, thanks, Animus, but I beatcha to it!

I'm ok now, it was periodic sluggishness (on top of my NORMAL sluggishness lol), and it's been getting better.

Your encouragement is super-appreciated. I can't even BEGIN to fathom how you made it through all your nightmare decisions without a forum like this!

And you - as a POIS Trailblazer - (Daveman, where's his medal already?????) don't hold a grudge against us (I would have!) for all of us  finding easier methods, or at least trying to!

Please take that as a sincere compliment!! (Albeit clumsily worded!)
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 00:53:54 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12829 on: 16/04/2011 01:28:17 »

Hi Demo,
Thanks for your encouraging reply about your children [and sperm production]. That is really good. Im single and its just a worry trying to explain these things. I live in the UK and feel embarrassed to tell my doctor about POIS.


Scooby, I just spoke with my endocrinologist and he says that even if you experience problems producing sperm - for whatever reason - there are methods available for many patients to re-stimulate sperm production.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 01:34:51 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12830 on: 16/04/2011 01:40:08 »

The most amazing thing to me so far in this T/P experiment is how devastating POIS can be - even with no sperm!!! (Sorry, Dr Waldinger!). Wait, he did say SEMEN. :)

Even if the zero-sperm is a result of testosterone treatment, I am not 100% cured, I am 80%.

And - believe me - I have had some LULU 20%-days!!!!



My experience also confirms that same observation. I was surprised also. Because after I had the oriectomy I could not produce sperm, yet I still had pretty much the same amount of ejaculate. And I still had significant POIS. It lessened the POIS, but was not away completely. For me it was more like 20% better instead of 80% though.

Now that I think of it, maybe more of us should get our semen analyzed if possible. If one can afford it. Just to have a "baseline" measurement to compare to later. What do you think?

That in addition to getting the full hormonal analysis too!  :)


Absolutely agreed, Animus!

Especially after scooby's posted concern. (Thank you, scooby, your post will help others, I'm sure).

My Semen Analysis was $175. Insurance rarely covers it. But for POISers, might be worth investigating.


Just to have a "baseline" [Semen Analysis] measurement to compare to later.


Once again, absolutely agreed. I just asked my endocrinologist if my testosterone treatment is the "culprit" in my no-sperm-count. He said we'll never know.

But, he said that if I did a "baseline" Semen Analysis measurement BEFORE I started testosterone therapy....we would know!!
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 01:41:49 by demografx »
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12831 on: 16/04/2011 04:22:34 »

You want me to stop giving advice on what has helped me?  I understand the possibility of overdosing.  You can get information on any site about drugs. That's really their own responsibility.  I totally understand, but is there a way I can suggest a medication?


Just do what the rest of us do, which is to share our own personal experience. "This is what I do, and it's working for me." Not, "Here, try this."

And if you notice many of our posts, even when we say, "this is working for me", you'll notice a disclaimer: "but this is not meant as a suggestion for YOU."

To suggest a medication over the internet is generally not permitted ethically, even by physicians.

Thank you very much for understanding.

no problem
 

Offline Vandemolen3

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12832 on: 16/04/2011 10:01:54 »


The most amazing thing to me so far in this T/P experiment is how devastating POIS can be - even with no sperm!!! (Sorry, Dr Waldinger!). Wait, he did say SEMEN. :)

Even if the zero-sperm is a result of testosterone treatment, I am not 100% cured, I am 80%.

And - believe me - I have had some LULU 20%-days!!!!

Maybe it's not only a semen allergy but also an allergy for the other liquids after an ejaculation.
Take care.
 

Offline cab771

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12833 on: 16/04/2011 13:53:09 »
The day one of us a a prostate cancer and he has his prostate removed in a conservative way so that he can still experience erections and orgasm, we will no fore sure if POIS is a semen allergy or not.

By the way, I produce a lot of testosterone and semem, making POIS even harder to control. High testosterone is only interesting if it is exogenous and therefore can lower semen production, or at least sperm count.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12834 on: 16/04/2011 16:33:56 »

Demo T/P Update Day 5


I woke up nauseous, tired, with a strange libidinous-sensation, so I'm not taking norethindrone (the P in T/P) today any more. That's all for now with this experiment.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 19:32:12 by demografx »
 

Offline alky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12835 on: 16/04/2011 19:01:52 »
Hello guys. So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm ? i personally presumed that from the beginning because i have POIS symptoms only from arousal which gets me back

to neurotransmitter and hormonal imbalance and not any type of allergy. What do u think ?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12836 on: 16/04/2011 19:20:05 »

So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm?


Where on earth did THAT conclusion come from?

edit - sorry if my initial reaction came across harshly, see follow up posts.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 20:58:48 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12837 on: 16/04/2011 19:26:50 »


The most amazing thing to me so far in this T/P experiment is how devastating POIS can be - even with no sperm!!! (Sorry, Dr Waldinger!). Wait, he did say SEMEN. :)

Even if the zero-sperm is a result of testosterone treatment, I am not 100% cured, I am 80%.

And - believe me - I have had some LULU 20%-days!!!!



Maybe it's not only a semen allergy but also an allergy for the other liquids after an ejaculation.


Semen includes non-sperm liquids. Are you suggesting liquids that are NOT semen?

Perhaps you meant to write, "Maybe it's not only a semen sperm allergy but also an allergy for the other liquids after an ejaculation."
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 20:39:50 by demografx »
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12838 on: 16/04/2011 19:35:55 »

The P/T contraceptive treatment, if it works may have the potential for working by alternate actions than just removing the sperm from our bodies(this is an alternate hypothesis to just the regular sperm allergy theory, and was the primary reason I thought of using P/T as a treatment).  It will stop a myriad of hormones that are associated with the production of sperm.  I believe that there is a possibility that these hormones are causing the reaction in our bodies; possibly something like "gonadotropin releasing hormone". these hormones are released after ejaculation to replace the sperm, I also believe that some of these hormones are preemptively released in response to arousal and stimulation in preparation of what the body believes will end in sperm loss to jump start the process of sperm production before ejaculation happens. 
Don't worry, if the P/T contraceptive works, there are a number of different possibilities why it is working besides just removing the sperm for sperm allergies. 
Another possible theory is based on the fact that both progesterone and testosterone can suppress the immune system.  Progesterone is one of the possible hormones in pregnancy that some believe is responsible for the immune system not attacking the fetus as a foreign invader in the body during gestation.  I am doing an obstetrics rotation right now and I have been told that autoimmune disease usually significantly improve during pregnancy and then return to normal afterward.
The P/T contraceptive is going to cover a bunch of bases at once.



Worth repeating!

I think Lauracostis could be on to something really interesting here. Laura, it's good to have another scientific mind in on the discussion!
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 19:37:33 by Animus »
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12839 on: 16/04/2011 19:41:13 »

Demo T/P Update Day 5


I woke up nauseous, tired, with a strange libidinous-sensation, so I'm not taking norethindrone (the P in T/P) today any more. That's all for now with this experiment.

Bummer. Sorry to hear that. But totally understandable.
Wondering if in those 5 days that you were on it, did it prevent any POIS from occurring? (did you experience an "O" while you were on it?)
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12840 on: 16/04/2011 19:54:50 »

So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm?


Where on earth did THAT conclusion come from?

We have to remember that sperm is just one small (volumetrically) component of semen. And it looks so far like at least 2 people who stopped sperm production still did suffer from POIS after ejaculation. It's hard to draw any solid conclusion from just 2 people, but it would point to the conclusion that the substance of sperm by itself does not cause all of the POIS symptoms. I think that's as far as we can conclude! Does anyone agree with that?
 

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12841 on: 16/04/2011 19:55:56 »
Hello guys. So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm ? i personally presumed that from the beginning because i have POIS symptoms only from arousal which gets me back

to neurotransmitter and hormonal imbalance and not any type of allergy. What do u think ?

We're at a very crucuial point here, and it's not as easy as saying that it IS or it ISN'T sperm allergy. Very, very far from it. Yet, we're probably closer than ever to some definitve answers.

We've had several very casual tests in the last month or so. What have they pointed to? Can anyone say? Tests have to be more than casual to come to reasonable conclusions. Demo is one actor with HIS particular situation. Habibou and  Hurray and Vandemolen3 are others. Each with their own situationas and each with their different results.

We see from Demo's tests, that thank GOD pre-test sperm levels were taken, but pre-TRT tests would have also given MUCH information. We see from Habibou and Hurray that there are varying results from Silodosin, but baselines and controls are very, very weak. How can we evaluate the results?

I'm not saying that we are wasting our time. These guys have made serious moves and sacrifices that others can't or don't want to make, and their efforts are very much appreciated, and even though the data isn't conclusive, it can be added to the growing database, where eventually conclusions may be able to be made.

But if we want to make real headway, we need to be responsible with the tests, so that those who make the effort, don't go out of their way for nothing, so that we can advance in the solution of the POIS problem.

We have seen that we are in a frontier, where even the MOST advanced of the experts isn't all that clear.

Who else but US is there?


Hey BTW Demo, you have to have an "O" today! For the good of the community!

We won';t watch!


 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12842 on: 16/04/2011 19:57:07 »


The most amazing thing to me so far in this T/P experiment is how devastating POIS can be - even with no sperm!!! (Sorry, Dr Waldinger!). Wait, he did say SEMEN. :)

Even if the zero-sperm is a result of testosterone treatment, I am not 100% cured, I am 80%.

And - believe me - I have had some LULU 20%-days!!!!

Maybe it's not only a semen allergy but also an allergy for the other liquids after an ejaculation.


Semen includes non-sperm liquids. Are you suggesting liquids that are NOT semen?
semen is the name given to all the liquids but the seminal glands produces it own liquids separate from all the other glands involved in ejaculation.
I think there a about four sources of liquid in semen.
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12843 on: 16/04/2011 20:09:12 »
Hello guys. So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm ? i personally presumed that from the beginning because i have POIS symptoms only from arousal which gets me back

to neurotransmitter and hormonal imbalance and not any type of allergy. What do u think ?

We're at a very crucuial point here, and it's not as easy as saying that it IS or it ISN'T sperm allergy. Very, very far from it. Yet, we're probably closer than ever to some definitve answers.

We've had several very casual tests in the last month or so. What have they pointed to? Can anyone say? Tests have to be more than casual to come to reasonable conclusions. Demo is one actor with HIS particular situation. Habibou and  Hurray and Vandemolen3 are others. Each with their own situationas and each with their different results.

We see from Demo's tests, that thank GOD pre-test sperm levels were taken, but pre-TRT tests would have also given MUCH information. We see from Habibou and Hurray that there are varying results from Silodosin, but baselines and controls are very, very weak. How can we evaluate the results?

I'm not saying that we are wasting our time. These guys have made serious moves and sacrifices that others can't or don't want to make, and their efforts are very much appreciated, and even though the data isn't conclusive, it can be added to the growing database, where eventually conclusions may be able to be made.

But if we want to make real headway, we need to be responsible with the tests, so that those who make the effort, don't go out of their way for nothing, so that we can advance in the solution of the POIS problem.

We have seen that we are in a frontier, where even the MOST advanced of the experts isn't all that clear.

Who else but US is there?


Hey BTW Demo, you have to have an "O" today! For the good of the community!

We won';t watch!




Hi dave, I agree. It has been an eventful month, and we are closer to some answers. We need to try to document? or take note of the effects of the silodosin, T/P experiments. I guess none of these things has been 100% successful, but they have shed light on some things/ been partially successful. They've been very useful.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 20:12:25 by Animus »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12844 on: 16/04/2011 20:13:23 »
The day one of us a a prostate cancer and he has his prostate removed in a conservative way so that he can still experience erections and orgasm, we will no fore sure if POIS is a semen allergy or not.

By the way, I produce a lot of testosterone and semem, making POIS even harder to control. High testosterone is only interesting if it is exogenous and therefore can lower semen production, or at least sperm count.

I have an idea, sperm washing, it separates sperm from semen. ( i just need to find out accuracy i will prolly do that next week).
i hope to do intradermal test with sample of sperm(with little semen) and semen(with little sperm) and see which one i react to.
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12845 on: 16/04/2011 20:25:54 »
Haha, thanks, Animus, but I beatcha to it!

I'm ok now, it was periodic sluggishness (on top of my NORMAL sluggishness lol), and it's been getting better.

Your encouragement is super-appreciated. I can't even BEGIN to fathom how you made it through all your nightmare decisions without a forum like this!

And you - as a POIS Trailblazer - (Daveman, where's his medal already?????) don't hold a grudge against us (I would have!) for all of us  finding easier methods, or at least trying to!

Please take that as a sincere compliment!! (Albeit clumsily worded!)

Thanks, demo! :D
I really don't hold any grudge here! I think I hold some grudges against doctors unfortunately, and that gets in the way sometimes.
I had to go solo to follow my hypothesis. Enough about me.
« Last Edit: 17/04/2011 01:44:22 by Animus »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12846 on: 16/04/2011 21:05:07 »

So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm?


Where on earth did THAT conclusion come from?

edit - sorry if my initial reaction came across harshly, see follow up posts.



We have to remember that sperm is just one small (volumetrically) component of semen. And it looks so far like at least 2 people who stopped sperm production still did suffer from POIS after ejaculation. It's hard to draw any solid conclusion from just 2 people, but it would point to the conclusion that the substance of sperm by itself does not cause all of the POIS symptoms. I think that's as far as we can conclude! Does anyone agree with that?


Yes. Well put.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 21:06:50 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12847 on: 16/04/2011 21:31:38 »

Hello guys. So the conclusion is that POIS is not an allergy to sperm ? i personally presumed that from the beginning because i have POIS symptoms only from arousal which gets me back

to neurotransmitter and hormonal imbalance and not any type of allergy. What do u think ?


We're at a very crucuial point here, and it's not as easy as saying that it IS or it ISN'T sperm allergy. Very, very far from it. Yet, we're probably closer than ever to some definitve answers.

We've had several very casual tests in the last month or so. What have they pointed to? Can anyone say? Tests have to be more than casual to come to reasonable conclusions. Demo is one actor with HIS particular situation. Habibou and  Hurray and Vandemolen3 are others. Each with their own situationas and each with their different results.

We see from Demo's tests, that thank GOD pre-test sperm levels were taken, but pre-TRT tests would have also given MUCH information. We see from Habibou and Hurray that there are varying results from Silodosin, but baselines and controls are very, very weak. How can we evaluate the results?

I'm not saying that we are wasting our time. These guys have made serious moves and sacrifices that others can't or don't want to make, and their efforts are very much appreciated, and even though the data isn't conclusive, it can be added to the growing database, where eventually conclusions may be able to be made.

But if we want to make real headway, we need to be responsible with the tests, so that those who make the effort, don't go out of their way for nothing, so that we can advance in the solution of the POIS problem.

We have seen that we are in a frontier, where even the MOST advanced of the experts isn't all that clear.

Who else but US is there?



Daveman, really excellent State Of The State summation! Thank you.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 21:40:50 by demografx »
 

Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12848 on: 16/04/2011 21:48:38 »

Demo T/P Update Day 5


I woke up nauseous, tired, with a strange libidinous-sensation, so I'm not taking norethindrone (the P in T/P) today any more. That's all for now with this experiment.

Bummer. Sorry to hear that. But totally understandable.
Wondering if in those 5 days that you were on it, did it prevent any POIS from occurring? (did you experience an "O" while you were on it?)
That is too bad that the side effects were too much for you, at least you gave it a proper try.  I believe Lime juice was able to tolerate progesterone, but he was not taking T with it and also other prescription medications as far as I know.  As far as I know in the studies about the P/T contraceptive there were only mild side effects in some people.  So just because Demo's body does not like the addition of progesterone, does not mean that others cannot tolerate it. 
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12849 on: 17/04/2011 00:53:23 »

Demo T/P Update Day 5

I woke up nauseous, tired, with a strange libidinous-sensation, so I'm not taking norethindrone (the P in T/P) today any more. That's all for now with this experiment.


As far as I know in the studies about the P/T contraceptive there were only mild side effects in some people.  So just because Demo's body does not like the addition of progesterone, does not mean that others cannot tolerate it.


Laurac, thank you very much, that REALLY needed pointing out!

Also, I've been on a  - - - - load  of medications since my open heart surgery a year ago, and I have had side effect issues since then.

So please, everyone, don't get discouraged. In fact I am still VERY enthused about the terrific potential of T/P (or is it P/T? :) ) - especially after reading Laurac's post about the myriad possibilities of this treatment!
« Last Edit: 17/04/2011 00:57:14 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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