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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6461840 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1400 on: 30/09/2008 00:37:16 »
Oh, another thing that I wanted to mention. Those people taking Glucophage (Metformin) for Diabetes. Metformin can heavily contribute to Adrenal insufficiency and severely exacerbate PIOS.
Apart from the medical advice warning that was posted, how can you GENERALIZE what can "severely exacerbate" POIS for diabetics?? Have you studied "Diabetes and POIS"???

Your statements worry me, to be honest.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 02:18:43 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1401 on: 30/09/2008 02:02:53 »
I think that there could be 2 steps (or more) in POIS.
And the first step is dopamine adrenaline conversion with orgasm, excessive for us. This adrenaline cause symptoms described by Imre1 and are corrected by beta blockers.


Quite so.  I have often felt there are several different mechanisms contributing to my POIS.  At times it seems I can control some of these mechanisms -- through medication, or diet, etc. -- but not always all of them.   I have also been talking to an MD who has seen 4 POIS patients, and he says he believes POIS has several different causes.

B_Jim, maybe you can shed some light on the situation I'm currently in.  For the past few months, I had been having feelings of extreme withdrawal after orgasm.  I also felt like I needed an orgasm-fix to feel normal.  But I could have hot showers with almost no side effects.  Now, after having taken beta blockers for a month, the time for orgasm-recovery has decreased substantially, and
my hot shower symptoms have returned.  The hot shower symptoms usually only start if I expose my head to hot water for 5+ minutes.  They are like POIS, but more limited.  I have trouble expressing myself, and I feel somewhat numb (sometimes there is a tingling sensation in my neck).  Unlike POIS, they only last for about 5 hours.  Could it have something to do with vasodilation?  Does this say something clear about POIS, in your opinion?
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1402 on: 30/09/2008 02:04:25 »
Hey,

I believe I have been suffering from POIS for about 5 or 6 years.  I am only 20 years old.  I at first thought that my symptoms were caused from religious guilt.  But whenever I have an orgasm from masturbation I feel miserable for EXACTLY 3 days.  It is like a clock.  As soon as I release I feel an intense warm feeling in my body.  That night I am unable to sleep.  I sweat alot even though I am not hot. 
The following day I feel mildly depressed and nervous and confused.  My mind feels so different than before my release.  The second day is the worse and I try not to even talk to anyone.  It is so depressing.  I just don't feel like myself.  The third day I begin to feel better.  After exactly 72 hours I feel fine.  This happens everytime.  BUt I suffer no physical pain.  It's all mental.  I am worried because I am so young.  I want to marry but I want to feel normal after I have sex. 
At first I thought that these symptoms would disappear after I got married due to religious reasons.  Now, after reading this forum I have doubts.  I currently go for about a month without an orgasm because I can't stand the after effects.  But I have such a stong sex drive I can't permantely avoid orgasm.  I take no medicine and I am in perfect physical condition. I just want to enjoy pleasure but act normal.  I don't know what to do.. anyone want to help?
I have spent the last year or two experimenting with various mental opinions while masturbating to no avail.  I am sure I must be suffering from POIS and I am so glad I am not alone.

Hi Tarkington,
You may wish to fill out the form at http://pois.olympe-network.com
We are hoping to send the responses to researchers, for their opinions.

This is a friendly supportive community, and hopefully you will find it helpful.
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1403 on: 30/09/2008 02:19:45 »
Ok I filled out the form. 

The only thing that I have done to aide my symptoms is to avoid masturbation.  I went from daily masturbation to monthly.  But I still spend time thinking about and looking at women online even though I avoid an orgasm.  It is very annoying to waste my time attempting to masturbate and then not do so because I hate the side effects.  This has been a struggle for about three years.  Before that I didn't realize how terrible my life was as a result of the side effects.  Now that I don't masturbate and feel "normal" for long periods of time, I can't stand the three or so days after a release.  It is like living on a high plateau of feeling good and normal and then falling off the edge when I release. But being a young male it is extremely taxing to avoid women.
A strange thing happened to me once.  I was "playing" with myself.  After a while I ejaculated without an orgasm.  This however did not trigger the symptoms.  So I want to believe that the symptoms are associated with the orgasm and not the ejaculation.  I have since tried to ejaculate without an orgasm unsuccesfully.

I am just so glad I finally found people who feel the same way as I do.  I am praying for us all.
 

Offline Dr. Matt

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1404 on: 30/09/2008 03:10:07 »
demografx - I was under the impression that it was important to post things on this Forum that would help people get back to a normal life ASAP. Theophylline, as I mentioned is essentially, sustained release caffiene, so for me to suggest, "You may want to try, Theophylline" is quite reasonable. As for Glucophage, I have had diabetics tell me that they have had CFS and have it completely vanish upon discontinuing this medication. After discussing it with the head endocrinologist in our department we concluded that it was most likely due to it deminishing the responsiveness of the Adrenal gland to stimulation. If you are uncomfortable with me posting, keep in mind, I have 20 years of medical experience, 13 years in the hospital environment. I have prescribing authority on my unit and am fully licensed to give medical advice.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1405 on: 30/09/2008 03:37:23 »
demografx - I was under the impression that it was important to post things on this Forum that would help people get back to a normal life ASAP. Theophylline, as I mentioned is essentially, sustained release caffiene, so for me to suggest, "You may want to try, Theophylline" is quite reasonable. As for Glucophage, I have had diabetics tell me that they have had CFS and have it completely vanish upon discontinuing this medication. After discussing it with the head endocrinologist in our department we concluded that it was most likely due to it deminishing the responsiveness of the Adrenal gland to stimulation. If you are uncomfortable with me posting, keep in mind, I have 20 years of medical experience, 13 years in the hospital environment. I have prescribing authority on my unit and am fully licensed to give medical advice.

You have some experience with diabetics and CFS. POIS is not CFS.

We trade experiences here and are leery of medical advice sight unseen. Do you really think it appropriate to give medical advice to someone who is not your patient, over the internet? I don't.

If you have treated POIS sufferers, I could understand relaying your successes, and being careful to discuss what has worked for specific types of patients. Beyond that, it's speculation.

Even when we trade success stories here, it's not done as "I found the cure for everybody."

Perhaps if you stick to specific successes you've had with POIS (you've been asked to relay your own history and we haven't seen it) there would be a higher level of comfort.

Also, you began with us here claiming that the Marshall Protocol is a cure for POIS. Based on? Perhaps that didn't help the situation.

We are ALL trying to be helpful. But I don't think there's a lot of patience for pure theoretical speculation about POIS treatment.

Besides, that's dangerous.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 04:54:35 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1406 on: 30/09/2008 04:03:53 »
...I can't stand the three or so days after a release.  It is like living on a high plateau of feeling good and normal and then falling off the edge when I release...

...So I want to believe that the symptoms are associated with the orgasm and not the ejaculation.  I have since tried to ejaculate without an orgasm unsuccesfully.

Tarkington, the 3 days after that you describe is exactly how most of us feel. It's a real joy killer.

You're right about the orgasm being the culprit. Some of us have had orgasm _without_ ejaculation, and POIS still arrived in the mail.

But yours is the first time I heard of the opposite! Very interesting.
 

Offline Dr. Matt

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1407 on: 30/09/2008 04:12:34 »
Well obviously you know everything and I don't, you don't even read my posts! Theophylline is safe and if people can find relief from drinking a couple of cups of tea that is high in theophylline content, if I were a patient, anywhere, and it worked for me, boy would I be happy. You accused me of suggesting ED drugs, again, re-read my posting! I clearly stated, "Those of you that have found relief with", in other words, people that have already been taking these medications may want to try something safer and less expensive (like theophylline). Although the things I have mentioned may not CURE the disease, I believe that the Marshall Protocol (even with as many fights I've had with Trevor Marshall) is very likely at the root of the problem, its my professional assessment is that POIS is autoimmune in nature. You have nothing better to do than to criticize someone with years and years worth of experience in treating and managing illnesses in a hospital environment. The very fact that you argue with everything I say before actually reading the post is indicative of your low self esteem and lack of self worth. This will be my last post on the POIS page, it appears you have all of the answers for everyone...
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1408 on: 30/09/2008 04:18:36 »
Thanks, Dr Matt, that makes it easier than having to ban you.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1409 on: 30/09/2008 04:40:40 »
Theophylline, as I mentioned is essentially, sustained release caffiene [sic], so for me to suggest, "You may want to try, Theophylline" is quite reasonable.
Theophylline is a prescription medicine that is used for the treatment of airway spasms caused by asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). It is available in several different forms, including capsules, tablets, an elixir, and an injection. Theophylline works by causing muscles around the airways to relax, which helps to improve breathing.

Side effects of the medication can include headaches, vomiting, insomnia, and nausea.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1410 on: 30/09/2008 04:43:02 »
Dr. Matt, there was no need to get personal like you did.  I think perhaps everyone is being a little too sensitive.  I am happy for your advice, but you must understand that we have to be skeptical of someone who is claiming authority and presenting somewhat definitive solutions -- "this will cure your POIS", etc.  Since you have a scientific background, you should appreciate this. You act as though you know all about POIS, yet, as a group of 100+ sufferers, we seem to be just scratching the surface -- and not for lack of trying! It would have helped if you told us more about your history with POIS, how you treated it, who you saw with POIS, etc., before jumping into solutions.  If someone came up to me out of the blue and said "POIS? Try this, it will fix you", of course I'd want to find out how this person knows about POIS, and what the reasoning behind the cure is.  Maybe in your excitement you did not think of this.  

I also think it is becoming more obvious that POIS is not necessarily the same for all of us, and that it likely has multiple causes, or is the result of several mechanisms.  The importance of each mechanism may differ amongst us. 


« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 04:44:53 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1411 on: 30/09/2008 05:00:48 »
Counterpoints, thank you, but I'll be blunt.

After that last claim of Theophylline being a harmless caffeine product when actually it is a prescription asthma treatment, and insistence on POIS being an infection, the unproven and dangerous Protocol,etc., etc., etc.,  I can't help thinking....well, quackery.

[update: after email posted below, I now also would consider pre-pubescence to adolescence...well, we need some ocassional fun around here I suppose]

Further, Theophylline, due to its numerous side-effects, is now rarely administered for clinical use.

"In tea", a "wonderful POIS suggestion" it's only found in trace quantities.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 05:32:15 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1412 on: 30/09/2008 05:26:45 »
"LAST WORD" FROM THE PROFESSIONAL DR MATT ;D [Private Email]

Re: Pathetic
Sent to: demografx on: Today at 03:13:16      

---------------------------------------------------------------

You're a fuckin loser
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Sorry to playback the vulgarity, but I think this only proves the point - demo]
 

Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1413 on: 30/09/2008 07:06:18 »
There are a lot of people who dabble in medicine and consider themselves authorities.  Where I come Freon
Dropping out of medical school because of "politics"  shouldn't give anyone the authority to diagnose patients and you become a doctor completing the training and passing boards.  Who would give a Pharmacist or Pharmacy assistant that authority except in a very underdevelopped country?  Here, a pharmacist who dispenses w/o a prescription or writes them  is a criminal.
An Actor once said "I'm not a doctor. but I play one on TV".   We don't need people playing them on the internet.
If you are licensed you are a doctor. If not you are not.
Tons of red flags here.     

We are trying to form a common profile of people with symptoms here.  Not to be a treatment center for any disease which we can link to it.  People have different symptoms so there will be variations but we have a common cause- orgasms.  The more we learn about the why and the how. 
This site is so obscure most of us only by our determination stumbled on it.  We all have kept this mostly to ourselves because of the personal nature of this. The hit or miss drug stuff is going to result in Danger or death. It is not  game.  I think most of us want to deal with this in the most natural way possible and because this is from an incredibly common natural experience of reproduction in nature it seems probable.
we can each deal with symptoms in our own ways that work for us individually. we need to find the bridge between the cause and effect that we know. This is only where the cure will be found. 
Otherwise we run in circles. 
For every one on us there must be hundreds confused not knowing where to turn   
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1414 on: 30/09/2008 10:28:55 »
Demografx, well handled. Too bad knowledge isn't wisdom, Matt might have been of some help.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1415 on: 30/09/2008 18:12:59 »
THANKS, GUYS! :)
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 20:53:50 by demografx »
 

Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1416 on: 30/09/2008 20:59:27 »
Now for the realy unconventional question. (Many are not going to like this, but the question should be asked at least once anyway).

What would be the result of suppressed homosexuality on dopamine and prolactin production?

One would think that if you have sex with people you are not sexualy attracted to dopamine would be low and as a result prolactin would be high.

I'm not sure what the result on the neurochemicals would be.  If you're having sex with someone you're not attracted to, the experience would probably be lessened in most aspects (e.g. less dopamine and prolactin?). 

Leading to the idea that masturbating over gay porn would lead to orgasmic degradation and less after symptoms?

A little like women make me sick, but men no problem? And would that count as being gay?
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 21:01:25 by imre1 »
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1417 on: 01/10/2008 01:26:41 »
I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....

In sexuality, the refractory period is the recovery phase after orgasm during which it is physiologically impossible for an individual to have additional orgasms. It is also sometimes defined as "the time immediately following orgasm during which a man cannot achieve an erection."[1] The penis may be hypersensitive and further sexual stimulation may even feel painful during this time frame.

The refractory period varies widely among individuals and across species, ranging from minutes to days. An increased infusion of the hormone oxytocin during ejaculation is believed to be chiefly responsible for the refractory period and the amount by which oxytocin is increased may affect the length of each refractory period.

Another chemical which is considered to be responsible for this effect is prolactin, which represses dopamine, which is responsible for sexual arousal.

Prolactin levels may be checked as part of a sex hormone workup, as elevated prolactin secretion can suppress the secretion of FSH and GnRH, leading to hypogonadism, and sometimes causing erectile dysfunction in men.
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1418 on: 01/10/2008 04:45:16 »
What a shame that Dr Matt could not have been more thoughtful in his approach to this forum, his knowledge and ideas could have been of benefit to us.

I hope that this squabble does not deter people like Dr Waldinger from using the forum, in all 62 pages of this thread this is the only disagreement that I recall seeing.

Hopefully it will be accurate honest information like tarkington's that will lead us towards an understanding of how POIS works, and how we can combat it.
 

Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1419 on: 01/10/2008 06:13:40 »
Dr. Matt was clearly unprofessional in ways that casted doubt upon his credentials - especially the email he sent to demografx.  Even though his input may have been beneficial, we gotta keep on truckin. Has there been any new word from Dr. Waldinger or Dr. Schweitzer demografx?

I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....


Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1420 on: 01/10/2008 18:12:04 »
Well if it is somehow related to elevated (or even decreased) prolactin or oxytocin, then what would cause that elevation (or decrease) and how do we fix that?  Maybe the elevation or decrease is related to abundance or scarcity of other chemicals that I don't know about.  I am no professional so I am only speculating.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1421 on: 01/10/2008 19:17:51 »
UPDATE FROM DR. MARCEL WALDINGER


----- Original Message -----


From:      Dr. Marcel Waldinger
To:        [demografx]
Sent:      Wednesday, October 01, 2008 1:55 AM
Subject:   Re: 3 POIS Forum resources [our 3 websites]


Dear [demografx],

First of all my apologies for the delayed reply. I am a very busy person and cannot answer immediately to the many e-mails I daily receive.

I also do not have the solution of POIS.

Today I received an e-mail of an unknown person who wrote me that men are desperate and that one man even removed his testicles. I do understand that POIS is a very serious problem.

It seems to me that your correspondence to me and my delayed reply has been discussed with other men.

I would like you to inform these other men that I try to find out what is causing POIS, but that this research is very very difficult to perform, also because of a total lack of financial support.

I also would like you to inform men that I will do my best to in the next weeks to spend more time to POIS. You should realize that I am very busy with my regular work and other research activities, which I cannot stop in just a few days in order to spend more time to the research of POIS.

Briefly, I do not have so much time to focus daily on our research of POIS and certainly not to focus daily on Internet discussion groups. I just do not have enough time for that.

But I will to my best, starting next week, to visit the internet sites you have mentioned, and try to find out what I can do for the many men you have mentioned.

I am pleased that you have contacted me and I do think that this will stimulate the research of POIS.

We have made progress with our own research but not enough to state that we have found the cause of POIS.

I do have some ideas about what all your men can contribute to the research of POIS. I will contact you later this week or around the weekend to discuss this with you.

But please, stop to think that I am the solution of POIS. I can only contribute, in all modesty, to the research of POIS.

With best regards,

Dr. M.D. Waldinger


===============================================================


----- Original Message -----


From:      [demografx]
To:        Dr. Marcel Waldinger
Sent:      Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:05 AM
Subject:   Re: 3 POIS Forum resources


Dear Dr. Waldinger,


On behalf of the entire POIS Forum, I thank you very much for all your thoughtful consideration and action!

We look forward to working with you.


Best regards,

[demografx]


[3 websites I gave Dr. Waldinger to which he refers in his email  - demografx]

POIS Forum website
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new

POIS video

POIS survey form
http://pois.olympe-network.com

=================================================================

[I have also given Dr. Waldinger my home telephone and cellphone numbers]
« Last Edit: 01/10/2008 20:14:26 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1422 on: 01/10/2008 19:44:29 »
Can we make it easier for Dr. Waldinger?

B_Jim? Counterpoints? Anyone? As we can see, his time is very limited. B_Jim has created a summary, would that be a useful start? Certainly let's not overload him with information!
« Last Edit: 02/10/2008 00:31:07 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1423 on: 02/10/2008 00:29:12 »
I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....

tarkington, I found your discussion of oxytocin and prolactin very interesting. I wonder if a PET scan during the refractory period could be revealing? Too bad it's so expensive!
« Last Edit: 02/10/2008 00:32:16 by demografx »
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1424 on: 02/10/2008 01:25:04 »
Thanks for the update Demografx! I think Dr Waldinger's reaction is actually enormously encouraging. He obviously has long-standing professional committments to his patients and his current research, but he is still willing to make time to look further into POIS. He even has ideas about how the members of this forum can help him with POIS research - very interesting!

 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1424 on: 02/10/2008 01:25:04 »

 

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