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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6461275 times)

Offline Guthrie

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« Reply #14275 on: 11/08/2011 01:33:32 »
this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.

Check this out:
(from: http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T120793.html )

Quote
Niacin, taken orally as nicotinic acid, can produce redness, warmth, and itching over areas of the skin; this "niacin flush" usually occurs when doses of 50mg or more are taken and is a result of the release of histamine by the cells, which causes vasodilation. This reaction is harmless; it may even be helpful by enhancing blood flow to the "flushed" areas, and it lasts only 10-20 minutes. When these larger doses of niacin are taken regularly, this reaction no longer occurs because stores of histamine are reduced.

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

But, I guess we'd have to test that -- someone for whom niacin helps their POIS would need to try taking the niacin on a regular basis (i.e. every day, rather than only on O-days), and see if the helping-effect is diminished by the regular-basis ingestion, or whether the helping-effect is still preserved.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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« Reply #14276 on: 11/08/2011 03:14:02 »
This is a possible niacin solution for those always in pois because of NES.
If you are always in pois because NES, start using niacin at night right before going to sleep, so when you do have an NE it wont cause pois.  But inorder to prevent you from using it for a whole week ( or as long as it takes you to recover if it is over a week) start taking niacin four days after your orgasm until you heal when you do heal have an orgasm with niacin to prevent pois.   Wait four days without niacin and have an orgasm using niacin on the fourth day. That way you are not uisng niacin everyday and reducing your chances of NEs. 

*  The reason why i use four days is because that is when i start having NEs after orgasm.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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« Reply #14277 on: 11/08/2011 15:24:58 »
I had quite a carefully thought out post about a POIS theory, asking for comments, and it seems to have been buried very quickly by intro posts, etc., and forgotten.  And before that I had had asked a question about niacinamide and it was also ignored.  This sort of thing seems to be happening lately as the number of new posters has been increasing, and the welcome posts have been getting longer, etc.

To help with the conversation in this thread, I suggest just linking to the full welcome post. For example, the new welcome could be:

"Welcome <name>,

Please see this link for a full introduction to this thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg364636#msg364636

We look forward to your posts!
"

And we could use tinyurl to make the url more manageable.  What do you think Demo (and others)?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Thanks. I would like a response by Demografx about the solution to the intro post being way too long, which was indeed the main point of my above post. (The solution being a very short intro post, with a link to a longer one).  Any given page may have 3 massive intro posts on it, and very little other content.  The thread is getting very hard to read because of this, and I think we can fix this with a short intro and a link.

Along those lines, I also suggest (to everyone) when responding to a massive post, not quoting the whole post, but just quoting the relevant parts, or the first few sentences.

These two things should greatly help the readability of this thread.

By the way the reason I personally didn't respond to your post about sex/porn addiction is because this topic was recently discussed on the other forum...

Many of us do not read the other forum.... and I am sorry to hear it is hurting the ability to discuss new topics in this thread.  I do agree with CC's point, though, that the other forum is more suited to changes of topic.

Besides I seriously doubt those of us who only have an orgasm once a week are addicted to porn or sex. But anyway I've already put all my thoughts on that topic into the other forum.

I disagree, and I don't think the logic here makes that much sense...  I have orgasm less than once a week, but of course that was not always the case.  Many alcoholics, etc., will not drink alcohol for years.  That does not mean they are no longer addicted. In fact, imagine that an alcoholic DID still have alcohol once a week, rather than quitting entirely.  I am sure that would be quite a terrible experience.  If POIS is like an addiction, a problem is that we are addicted to a natural process in our bodies, which makes it very very hard to escape from.  It's not like we can say, 'OK no more orgasm or sexual stimuli ever'.  It's something that's not as much in our power.

This addiction theory seems to relate to Marnia's theory... The problem, though, is she seems to think this applies to pretty much everyone.  But I don't think POIS is just a more extreme version of what everyone experiences... I think it's something quite different.

It also relates to the neurochemical theories, which in my opinion, intuitively seems more likely than allergy/immune route.

However, I am seeing a real research immunologist soon, so I will be able to report back on that! :)
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 16:40:44 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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« Reply #14278 on: 11/08/2011 15:28:38 »
So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14279 on: 11/08/2011 17:33:04 »
Hi,

I'm waiting for approval of my user in the new forums. Once i get that, i would like to make a post about the Circulatory System. In fact is similar to the Vasospasm theory a member has already posted.

I really believe in this theory. Keep in mind that poor blood circulation in the brain can have severe cognitive symptoms. It can even resemble allergic reactions. There are brain areas related to Sneeze, etc. And also, keep in mind that a problem in the circulatory system can also affect the liver, heart, stomach, etc, so the endocrine system becomes affected too.

Niacin flush and levitra seem to work to some members, and i think it's because it's vasodilating properties. But not all vasodilatons are going to work. We should find what are the best ones. I think, at least in theory, that Valsartan and Nebivolol are two beta-blockers that should work quite well, because the have strong vasodilating properties AND they release Nitric Oxide. They should work much better to us than propranolol, for example.

Some questions you may ask:

+ ¿Why do we have more inelastic blood vessels than normal people? The answer could be that we have these inelastic vessels only in key areas that precipitate POIS, and the problem only shows when we put our circulatory system into  a stress test (as having an O.). Also, it could be they are perfectly elastic, but they contract too much.

+ ¿Why do we have blood vessels too contracted before having an O.? The answer could be: because of a nitric oxide deficit, or because of a too high sensisivity to adrenaline, neurotransmitter imbalances, etc.

+ ¿After having an O., do our blood vessels become, ironically, too dilated? I think that Yes, because of the spike in blood pressure from the O, and the release of inflamating hormones and other substances (histamine, serotonin, etc)

Also, we can combine this circulatory strategy with an hormonal balacing strategy.

I give you an example of a regimen i would like to try: 

Niacin (before sex, and/or every day)
+
Nebivolol (every day; it needs some weeks to work)
+
Levitra (check compatibility if taken with beta-blockers)
+
Testosterone (a lot of member are in the low-normal range)
+
(Finasteride: optional) (sex can affect DHT levels). Did not work for some members
+
Bioflavonoids (take every day) (Reduces blood vessel fragility and vascular permeability): rutin, quercitin...
+
Vitamin C + Vitamin B12 + Vitamin D3 (vitamins for energy and antioxidants)

I hope you like it!

Finally, take a look at this sentence i've found:  "Vascular permeability was stimulated by a nonspecific pro-inflammatory agent (carrageenan), by drugs that disrupt endothelial cells junction (histamine, serotonin or bradykinin)".

Some Nsaids reduce vascular permeability and inflamation, like Indomethacin. But i think some members already tried it. Remember Nsaid can be tough on the stomach, so it is wise to take them with food and a stomach protector.
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 20:12:34 by Quasar »
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14280 on: 11/08/2011 19:21:10 »




There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO




 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14281 on: 11/08/2011 19:33:32 »


I'm in POIS too, so I could only come up with this idea for a T-shirt:






If you're curious about the above, see the discussion which starts with B_Daniel's post at:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.msg2156#msg2156   :)


I got a couple of quotes for 100 T-Shirts




This was the most expensive. Donors could look at buying this $7.22 T-Shirt for a minimum of $100, proceeds going to NORD, something like that.


The expensive one is mine. I liked the idea of the shirt pocket! ;D
 

Offline Guthrie

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« Reply #14282 on: 11/08/2011 19:37:10 »
There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO

Demo -- I'm a bit unclear -- couldn't you continue to give the warm, personal welcome, but one which would not need to list all of the lengthier listing of articles, google-searching, etc.  I.e. there can still be a briefer, "Welcome, [specific person], etc." but then with a link to a designated place on the new forum that lists all the specific details?  That would seem to preserve the 'personal' side, and cut down on the length.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14283 on: 11/08/2011 20:19:32 »



Guthrie, for YOU I'll think about it. :)
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14284 on: 11/08/2011 20:22:14 »

BTW, Guthrie, I also send the same message intact as a PM (Private Message). Part of the personalization _is_ the length. But I promised you I would keep thinking.
 

Offline Pharaoh

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« Reply #14285 on: 11/08/2011 20:53:56 »
So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..

I was prescribed antihistamines (Allegra 180mg/day and Cyproheptadine 4 mg/day) and not only didn't they work, but I suffered from suicidal thoughts during POIS.  I am convinced that the serotonin/dopamine levels are significantly suppressed causing the depression/brain fog/anxiety/anti-social symptoms we experience.

Regarding your previous post about masturbation addiction, this was my hypothesis before I came across this forum and POIS.  I was clearly addicted to pornography and masturbation, and similar to your experience, if I even come across an adult movie title while browsing the cable guide on tv, I immediately feel a rush and elevated heart rate.  There are a number of studies suggesting that pornography and masturbation "rewires" the brain.  The effect is mechanically similar to cocaine addiction and withdrawal.  I wonder, however, how so many men with wives are suffering from this condition.  It would be interesting to have a poll to identify how many of us at one point prior to experiencing POIS symptoms would consider ourselves addicted to masturbating to pornography.  I am seeing my Endocrinologist next Tuesday and will have a long discussion with him about Niacin and Levitra. 

 

Offline Hoping

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« Reply #14286 on: 11/08/2011 21:24:47 »
There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO


Demo -- I'm a bit unclear -- couldn't you continue to give the warm, personal welcome, but one which would not need to list all of the lengthier listing of articles, google-searching, etc.  I.e. there can still be a briefer, "Welcome, [specific person], etc." but then with a link to a designated place on the new forum that lists all the specific details?  That would seem to preserve the 'personal' side, and cut down on the length.

Long-time, no-post. At any rate, I like this idea!
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14287 on: 11/08/2011 21:26:26 »
So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..

I was prescribed antihistamines (Allegra 180mg/day and Cyproheptadine 4 mg/day) and not only didn't they work, but I suffered from suicidal thoughts during POIS.  I am convinced that the serotonin/dopamine levels are significantly suppressed causing the depression/brain fog/anxiety/anti-social symptoms we experience.


About the serotonin/dopamine levels, did anyone get it tested in blood? I think so. It would be interesting to know  serotonin and dopamine blood levels before an O., and after an O.

And also, very important, to have a brain SPECT showing serotonin and dopamine levels. This is crucial. But it is difficult to justify to a doctor such an expensive technique...
 

Offline Hoping

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« Reply #14288 on: 11/08/2011 21:45:03 »
Hi everyone,
I recently posted my testosterone lab results in the other forum. To avoid double-posting and to encourage the use of the other forum, I'll just post the link here.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.msg2262#msg2262
 

Offline FinalPanic

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« Reply #14289 on: 11/08/2011 22:24:26 »
On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex [nofollow]


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?
« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 22:27:20 by FinalPanic »
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14290 on: 11/08/2011 22:30:22 »



I like this [short Welcome Post]  idea!


Hoping (and as i mentioned to Guthrie privately), I think the welcome message needs be repeated in its entirety each time -- not only for the newbie's sake but because one never knows when a reporter or researcher will suddenly visit the site. And for the lurkers, who represent the majority of viewers here!

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  :)






« Last Edit: 11/08/2011 23:24:47 by demografx »
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14291 on: 11/08/2011 23:36:42 »
On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?

In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 00:10:03 by Quasar »
 

Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14292 on: 12/08/2011 00:17:35 »

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  :)

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 00:20:24 by Vincent Marcus »
 

Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14293 on: 12/08/2011 00:34:31 »
Counterpoints, I had forgotten that not everyone has time to read the other forum and I apologize for that.

It seems to me that you think POIS sufferers have at one time in each of their pasts had an above average frequency of orgasms/porn-viewing. I suppose this would have to be explored.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 00:45:41 by Vincent Marcus »
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14294 on: 12/08/2011 00:37:45 »

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  :)

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.

Thanks for the support!
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14295 on: 12/08/2011 04:50:33 »

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?



In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.



This seems to be one of the most promising discussion directions currently.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 04:52:23 by demografx »
 

Offline Starsky

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« Reply #14296 on: 12/08/2011 12:43:10 »
I have a feeling that Niacin Pills give me a stronger flush than Xanthinol Nicotinate.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 17:06:08 by Starsky »
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14297 on: 12/08/2011 14:44:49 »

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?



In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.



This seems to be one of the most promising discussion directions currently.

Thanks demografx! So, i think it's time i start buying some of these drugs. How much niacin are you taking everyday? Do you take a little more the day you plan to have an O.?
 

Offline cornelius

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« Reply #14298 on: 12/08/2011 15:03:46 »
The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!
IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.

The welcome message is an absolutely fantastic part of the community that has built up here. I speak as someone who spends most of my life in a mental fog in which I find navigating this thread completely overwhelming. The welcome post is a great summary and place to start for people who are like me -- and it should stay that way.

On the other hand, it would be better if it were shorter, for the mere reason that it's pretty overwhelming as it is! Fewer links, for example to the Pyropeach PDF would make it easier to comprehend immediately (the PDF already has loads of other links and info). Try reading it from the perspective of someone who loses track of long sentences, paragraphs beyond 3 lines and skips beyond the post if he gets frustrated :(  (it took me years to realise that this was happening to me)


It seems to me that you think POIS sufferers have at one time in each of their pasts had an above average frequency of orgasms/porn-viewing. I suppose this would have to be explored.
Definitely a good idea for a poll on the other forum. Something like "When you were most active, how many times a week would you masturbate to porn". The other thing that you have to realise is that there's no established average frequency!


On another note: someone should email newbielink:http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/ [nonactive] to get us a page there! That would funnel more people suffering from POIS here.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2011 15:08:56 by cornelius »
 

Offline demografx

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14299 on: 12/08/2011 18:56:51 »

How much niacin are you taking everyday?


I don't think I'm a good example. I take 500mg per day of Niaspan (extended-release niacin), along with 325 mg of aspirin to counter the flush.

I'm a bad example because:

1) I take it daily - building tolerance. Seems the ideal way for POIS is "as-needed"  dosing.

2) I _counter_  the flush. The flush seems to be necessary for POIS amelioration.

My main objective is cholesterol treatment, not POIS.

Testosterone is still my "POIS savior". Plus ADHD meds. And possibly Levitra.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14299 on: 12/08/2011 18:56:51 »

 

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