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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6450602 times)

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14375 on: 20/08/2011 10:43:29 »
I took Niacin 5 hrs ago and just had an O.  Not a good idea.  It lasts over 2 hrs, but not as much as 5.

Good to know!!
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14376 on: 21/08/2011 01:09:16 »

It seems niacin is a key factor of production of insuline, neurotransmitters and sexual hormones. Very interesting.


B_Jim, do you think there is ANY connection between what testosterone does and what niacin does?
 

Offline horizon

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« Reply #14377 on: 21/08/2011 18:32:15 »
Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14378 on: 21/08/2011 21:40:59 »

Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?
 

Offline BMX

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« Reply #14379 on: 22/08/2011 00:05:25 »
Hi, I'm new here, I read articles and want to show:

First, I think that brain fog, and lots other symptoms related here could be part of a depression episode (see the diagnosis in (1))

After ejaculation, we have a rise in cortisol levels (2). Studies show conection in cortisol and symptoms like depression (3) and weakness (4)

I also found articles that don't support the idea of the decrease of cognition with high corsisol levels [5], but I really thing that cortisol excess could explain the weakness and symtoms related to depression(mental fatigue, mental fog)considering other studies (6) .

I also think about treating symptons os POIS, like the depression, has anyone tried antidepressives? About the weakness, there's people that uses glutamine and vit C to treat asthenia (muscle weakness) (they decrease the efecct of cortisol in the muscles), has anyone already tried this?

Finally, I read here people using tryptopham, supporting the idea of depression. At last, there is nutrition plans to reduce cortisol levels, there is a lot of aliments that reduces cortisol levels, like vit C.

Sorry about possible bad english, that's not my first language

references:
1-  newbielink:http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-diagnosis [nonactive]
2-  newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022362 [nonactive]
3-  newbielink:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453005000831 [nonactive]
4-  newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/192172 [nonactive]
5-  newbielink:http://www.pnas.org/content/108/14/5801.short [nonactive]
6-  newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894868/ [nonactive]
 

Offline BMX

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« Reply #14380 on: 22/08/2011 00:44:29 »
Me again, I didn't read all the posts, there is a lot!!!

But anyone read this: newbielink:http://topnews.us/content/232830-probable-treatment-pois-might-be-out-soon [nonactive] ??? Waldinger's allergic hypothesis. That go against the cortisol hypothesis.

But, if it's allergic, the same cortisol is anti-allergic (1) and might reduce the signs of POIS! Well, people with asthma (and other inflamatory disorders) use some drugs that contains cortisol-like molecules, if they have POIS and worse symptoms of POIS, there is support the cortisol hyphotesis, if they have decrease in the symptons, there is support the allergic hypothesis.

references:
(1) newbielink:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/016561479390184L [nonactive]
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14381 on: 22/08/2011 04:04:58 »


BMX, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Forum - architectural genius: "daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion!
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php
Our 4-year-old POIS thread here at Naked Science Forum will also always remain open for newcomers, for general unstructured discussion, and historical research of the 10,000+ postings here since 2007.

The Learning Channel's (TLC)  feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the file for that TV documentary, "Desperate Measures", which can be downloaded and played. The segment starts at about 12:20..
http://www.fileserve.com/file/cUtJa9R/TITLE01.mp4

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the famous POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat


POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggests one possible avenue of treatment.

First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

  
Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send me or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, i.e., "demografx", or "daveman".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 4 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus over 1,300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!



SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 4 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.



 

Offline Itsthatskater

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« Reply #14382 on: 22/08/2011 08:20:16 »
I have to say guys, This is great considering everyone is trying to help eachother. I dont know what to do anymore, This feels like its killing me knowing that I have to pay everytime I ejaculate, My symptoms only last 48 hours. I feel great without POIS. I honestly dont think its an allergy but i would try any type of medicine made to help.
 

Offline makrofag

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« Reply #14383 on: 22/08/2011 13:47:43 »
I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf [nofollow]

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14384 on: 22/08/2011 15:57:33 »
I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.

Interesting...I also feel sometimes that fight-or-fly response. We already know the Niacin flush and vasodilation happens because of a release of peripheral serotonin, and this seems to be helping us. However, if it is true that Niacin also has adrenaline-protective properties to the brain, then this is very interesting, because we know that alpha and beta blockers are medicines that can protect us from the adrenaline effects.

In fact, some posts ago, i recommended the use of 3rd generation beta-blockers, for their migraine preventive actions(they reduce serotonin in the brain), and their vasodilating actions.

So, it could be, that Niacin has this double-effect that is helpful for us: the antimigraine effect, and the adrenaline protective effect.

Here you can see the comparison between the adrenergic receptors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_receptor#Comparison

The problem is that we still don't know what alpha/s or beta receptor/s are the most damaging to us. But one very interesting to try would be Carvedilol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvedilol , because it blocks both alpha and beta receptors. Another one that i would recommend is Nevibolol, because improves the release of nitric oxide, but it is more selective that Carvedilol.

Take a look at this sentence i've found from someone in the Internet: "This cardiologist is willing to prescribe the nitro pills as needed, but thought that carvedilol/coreg would help these episodes longer term because it would address my elevated norepinephrine levels (it's an alpha1, beta1&2 blocker)."

Also, a natural alpha-2 blocker is Yohimbine, but it is also selective.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2011 16:06:48 by Quasar »
 

Offline Habibou

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« Reply #14385 on: 22/08/2011 16:01:32 »
I tried some alpha blockers and my POIS was even worse  >:( but never beta blockers !
 

Offline victor.kons

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« Reply #14386 on: 22/08/2011 16:08:41 »
I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.
Hi Markfrag!

Interesting idea. I think flight or fight reaction is natural to being in uncomfortable state.

Personally, when I have some kind of pain or discomfort I become aggressive, no matter in POIS I am or just have a pain, and I overreact when in pain or discomfort, this is also true. I generally overreact to discomfort.

When in POIS its somehow becomes twofold. From one side I overreact, from the other side the reaction is DELAYED, or its absent, because it is SLOWED DOWN.

Regarding vasolidators. Yes, we have tried a bunch of different vasolidators and they didn't help. I can think only of one another vasolidator that helped, but it was far far overdosed, this vasolidator is Vinpocetine(kavinton). The doctor tried this vasolidator when I was in POIS and she tried to return me back to normal state quickly and she succeeded one time. I don't know maybe it was a placebo, maybe not, but it was only one time. As I said the doctor tried very high one time dose and she said this is not really a solution, because its dangerous in such doses at the same time with normal doses it didn't have an effect. But when she injected me kavinton, I remember that I was really thrown away from POIS in a matter of seconds and returned back to normal state. This sounds like a tale, I know, but I was very very surprised of this effect and I really started to believe that cure against POIS can exist after this incident!

Hm, actually, I recalled. There was another drug that helped. I've tried it several times and it really worked. But it is dangerous because it has the negative effect on "man's health". I don't remember the name of the drug, but it was prescription-type drug and it was used to help those people that have schizophrenia :) Recalled the name! It was eglonil! It had the stable effect and I injected it before O the same way like XN. I've tried 5-10 times and had no POIS after injection.

Warning! Don't take any of these drugs without consultation of your doctor. They can be dangerous!

Victor
« Last Edit: 22/08/2011 19:44:51 by victor.kons »
 

Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14387 on: 22/08/2011 16:30:16 »
I tried some alpha blockers and my POIS was even worse  >:( but never beta blockers !

Habibou, good to know that! I think some alpha/beta blockers are not going to work, because they are a lot of differences between them. They are some that have quite side effects. But the new ones have less side effects, and they help in releasing nitric oxide. Also, some are useful for migraine prevention, and some are not. I think that for being useful for migraine prevention they need to block the B1 receptor: "The action of migraine preventive drugs is uncertain, but it is believed to result from the inhibition of β1- mediated mechanism. β- blockade results in inhibition of 5-HT release from the monoaminergic nuclei (raphe nuclei) and of the NE from the locus coeruleus to prevent disturbances in vascular control systems."

Also, here it says that alpha blockers are usually less effective than beta blockers to prevent migraines:

"Commonly known as Catapres, clonidine is an alpha blocker that also protects the blood vessels. Not as effective as beta-blockers, but it does seem to be of special help if you suffer a lot from migraine attacks"

So, we don't know if Niacin protects from the action of alpha, beta, or both adrenergic receptors...but i believe Nebivolol and Carvedilol would be two meds very interesting to try, because they have few side effects, they don't cause erectile dysfuncion, they have potential to prevent migraines, and both improve the release of nitric oxide.

Don't forget that beta-blockers need weeks/months to start working...
« Last Edit: 22/08/2011 16:45:52 by Quasar »
 

Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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« Reply #14388 on: 22/08/2011 19:38:01 »
You need 60mg of tryptophan to synthetize 1mg of niacin.(other co-factor for this synthesis : B6, B2 and magnesium. This is very interesting for me because I have a chronic magnesium deficiency and I have fasciculation, especially hours after orgasm )

Wow very interesting, I am very glad I Googled "fasciculation" as I get this also! I always wondered why.....

Fasciculation is a "twitching" under the skin basically....

It mainly appears on my lips, but can also show up at the bottom of my nose, and sometimes the back of my hand, usually the right one.

I also just read that Fasciculation can be caused by Benzo withdrawal, I do take often every 1-2 days 1mg of ATIVAN, however this is a very low dose.... and I ONLY take it when feeling very POISY, so not sure on this one.

PS.
 

Offline Itsthatskater

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« Reply #14389 on: 22/08/2011 20:24:26 »
Alright guys i figured out the feeling i get after ejaculation. Everyone here knows the feeling of an orgasm so after i get that feeling i literally feel my strength being sucked out of me. Similar to the feeling after vomiting where you feel the life sucked out. It might just be a mental thing that makes us feel physically weak during POIS.

Anyway the next day when i woke up I felt weak and undermotivated. So i thought a big breakfast will help me out. When i woke up this is what I had

-2 large glasses of water to rehydrate myself (that could be a causing factor in POIS)

-1 banana (health wise and bananas give energy )

-1 large glass of Milk

-My two multivitimans (If those who have POIS arent on Multivitimans, Definitly try them out because they contain most things your body does not get normally including niacin)

-Grapes (healthy)

-Macoroni (why not? )

After the meal i felt great, I didnt get my physical strength but i felt little if any brain fog and felt motivated as well.

I dont know if this can help but just some interesting information.

 

Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14390 on: 22/08/2011 23:05:08 »
okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.
 

Offline Mer

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« Reply #14391 on: 22/08/2011 23:34:02 »
Has anyone seen this? http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=171 [nofollow]
Serotonin level!
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14392 on: 23/08/2011 01:33:53 »

Has anyone seen this? http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=171
Serotonin level!


Mer, herballove.com has been thoroughly discredited here numerous times.
 

Offline victor.kons

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« Reply #14393 on: 23/08/2011 05:58:58 »
okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.
Good to know, Vincent. Thank you for your report!

I feel okay when have multiple O's after taking Niacin. I take Niacin 2-3 times a week and the effect on POIS still the same, but the flush is lighter now.

Victor
 

Offline horizon

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« Reply #14394 on: 23/08/2011 09:45:13 »
Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.
Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?

yep, i get about 50%+ relief wearing them..until i take them off
 

Offline Itsthatskater

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« Reply #14395 on: 23/08/2011 15:04:03 »
Has anyone thought about allergy tablets?

I have also been reading about a drug called Fexofenadine, its an allergy fight drug that says it takes away some of the symptoms we suffer from. I will take it and let you guys know how i feel.
« Last Edit: 23/08/2011 15:25:54 by Itsthatskater »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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« Reply #14396 on: 23/08/2011 18:24:17 »
Has anyone thought about allergy tablets?

I have also been reading about a drug called Fexofenadine, its an allergy fight drug that says it takes away some of the symptoms we suffer from. I will take it and let you guys know how i feel.
I think for cognition problems(if that is one of your main problems) you will  one that cross blood brain barrier eaisily like these ones, brompheniramine, carbinoxamine malate, chlorpheniramine, and diphenhydramine .

fexofenadine might stop physical symptoms but i doubt it will affect mental symptoms.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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« Reply #14397 on: 23/08/2011 18:24:59 »
Dont forget to Post on the other forum if you want your topic to be discussed in greater detail.
 

Offline demografx

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« Reply #14398 on: 23/08/2011 20:49:50 »

Dont forget to Post on the other forum if you want your topic to be discussed in greater detail.


CC, thanks for the reminder!
 

Offline demografx

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14399 on: 24/08/2011 03:22:08 »

Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.



Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?


yep, i get about 50%+ [POIS] relief wearing them..until i take them off


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_glasses
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14399 on: 24/08/2011 03:22:08 »

 

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