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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6460761 times)

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15700 on: 04/03/2012 11:13:54 »
WONDERFUL B_DANIEL!!

One of my biggest interests is to see through the surveys why "T" works for some and "niacin" for others for example. There is obviously something different in the POIS etiology that I'm sure is locked up inside the information somewhere.

As you and others have seen here, it's one thing to try some cure that someone else has tried, and another to take it in the precise way that "clicks" with the failing system.

In cases like niacin you have to take it under quite strict rules, where it works extremely well, but if you take it "outside of those rules it barely works at all.

You found the same with testosterone. It's NOT just pop a pill. There's a process and a specific formula for taking it.

One of the problems we have here in general, is that we don't "listen" or try to understand. We just jump and try something, and since we don't follow the correct procedure, it doesn't work, and we lose the potential to be relieved of POIS.

With the surveys I want to highlight as much as possible the whys and wherefores, the procedures, help make it blatantly clear that there are conditions, and that the conditions may even depend on the type of POIS you have.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop AND confirming that Demo isn't crazy! LOL.

And congratulations!! I see no reason that you shouldn't have the same success as Demo. He may even have some specific notes to share about how you can enhance the "T" experience even more.

« Last Edit: 04/03/2012 11:17:27 by daveman »
 

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15701 on: 04/03/2012 11:25:38 »
B_Daniel - It's really good to read of another person on here who is over the moon with success from a treatment/therapy.
I have a couple of questions for you.
A. You said 'Testosterone in pill form - tells your body to produce more T'. I think you are mistaken here. Adding in external T does not stimulate your gonads to produce more. What were you on here...Andriol?
B. What mg dosage are you taking currently in gel form per week?

I've been on T a number of years, and I think my receptors are not as sensitive to it as they once were. I don't get as horny as I used to (in fact I am having trouble now), or the appetite or the energy + strength boost and I have upped the dosage. I'm on 2 Primoteston shots a month (500mg) and I am still below the average in pathology tests. I mentioned here before in a post how the time I felt wonderful and my tests showed high T levels at that time...however strangely it was not due to T but another drug.
C. What levels are showing on your path tests..are you in the middle or in the top 1/3 for your age group?
It does help me, without a doubt, but alas I can't rave about it like you + demo can unfortunately (so there are other issues going on for me).


I see there are a few posts lately talking about histamine. I can't remember ever getting an abnormal reading for this on any on my past path tests. what I did score high on though was homocysteine and Immunoglobulin G (elevated levels are associated with allergy and I was in top 0.2% of population). Anti-histamines like Zantec have helped me a bit with brain fog.


Have you ever tried daily patches? It seems that you could achieve better and more stable control over the levels that way. Our two cases of "success" seem to have better success with a "daily method". As you see with B_Daniels report, that the daily method also allows him to tone down a day or two if he feels he's getting to horny. And/or you can boost it a little just after sex, or when you feel it's necessary.

 

Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15702 on: 04/03/2012 11:28:14 »
That's  fantastic news, congratulations B_Daniel!

I wonder if there are 2 Pois (hormonal unbalance and auto-allergy) or 1.

Are allergic people more exposed to hypotestosteronemia than others ?

http://www.aehf.com/articles/Testosterone.htm

   
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    125 male allergy patients were studied
        117 (94%) of these patients were diagnosed with Hypotestosteronemia

       
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Conclusion

The results demonstrate that testosterone supplementation, when indicated in patients with allergic disorders, provides significant improvement in the patientís overall health, well-being and energy level. An overwhelming number of male patients who were treated for their allergies in combination with testosterone supplementation, when indicated, reported a marked improvement in their original symptoms.
 



Sounds reasonable, although I didn't quite "catch" how the allergic disorders fit in. Reading the report again, I'm not sure it's explicit in the body of the report, but it seems that the therapy was applied to people with allergic disorders, who, for some reason seemed to mostly (94%) be low in testosterone.

But if I had to vote, I'd say there has to be some hidden common element. The catacholamine chain is a good suspect.

« Last Edit: 04/03/2012 11:54:22 by daveman »
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15703 on: 04/03/2012 16:08:42 »
  Unless someone could tell me why I would feel symptoms of being allergic to semen only in my brain.

I bet that a lot of folks here would want to know the answer too.
I do not know if this could serve as an answer; but every time when i had an ejaculation in the past i used to feel a "weird feeling" on my head. I felt exactly the same feeling on my head at the moment they were injecting my own semen- dilluted concentration of course- on the skin p- test. That was my 100% confirmation that i am reacting against my semen -(probably when it contacts the blood barrier?).
Possibly because histamine is such a "swiss army knife" compound in the body.
Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine
"[Histamine is]...involved in  local immune responses as well as regulating physiological function in the gut and acting as a neurotransmitter". I think this all comes down to the "flight/fight" response and evolutionary biology. I suspect that an allergic reaction post orgasm is the exact wrong time to have it as an orgasm involves so many chemical reactions in the brain, some of them controlled by histamine receptors which regulate neural transmitter release. So instead of a really pleasurable post-O bliss that I'm told other people get, we get this headache, fuzzy feeling and dread.

Of all the things you could have an allergic response to, seminal fluid is very unlikely but it doesn't seem to lead to infertility. So even something as seemingly ridiculous (and it does seem nuts) as a semen allergy could be passed on from generation to generation without it being properly diagnosed or cured. I don't believe we're the first people with POIS, just the first who have labelled it and are trying to analyse it in medical terms. 

There's also a strong relation between histamines, niacin and neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin. These last two of course act over the brain.

The fabrication of histamines consume materials that dopamine and serotonin also require. Since a heavy load is demanded (for some reason heavier in POIS cases, maybe autoimmune reasons maybe not) the "building materials" become depleted and we remain short of dopamine etc until we can finally recuperate them. (5 or so days later).

Yes that's pretty much what I think. I also think that the allergic reaction stimulates a flight response in our brains meaning that we not only feel dopamine depleted but anxious aswell.
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15704 on: 04/03/2012 18:15:25 »
B_Daniel - It's really good to read of another person on here who is over the moon with success from a treatment/therapy.
I have a couple of questions for you.
A. You said 'Testosterone in pill form - tells your body to produce more T'. I think you are mistaken here. Adding in external T does not stimulate your gonads to produce more. What were you on here...Andriol?
B. What mg dosage are you taking currently in gel form per week?
C. What levels are showing on your path tests..are you in the middle or in the top 1/3 for your age group?

A.  I was on the pill Clomid.  This does regulated your body's internal T production.  I'm now on Axiron, which is a foreign T and has my body producing less of its own.
B. I'm taking 30mg per day.
C.  This is unclear as I've been getting on and off the T.  My T levels were low-normal to normal going in. 
 

Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15705 on: 04/03/2012 18:42:02 »
Could you post your testosterone Resultats please? Thank you !
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15706 on: 04/03/2012 20:16:35 »
B_Jim - That is incredibly interesting that there could be SOME TYPE of link between Allergies and Testosterone, whether that's low testosterone in people with allergies, or testosterone supplements help people with allergies feel better.  Either way I think it's something that we can now look out for in our readings.

Also, I agree that POIS is a syndrome, meaning that it is a bit of a catch-all for people that feel lousy after sex.  Hopefully there are only a few different types, but who knows. 

Daveman - I will take the niacin survey shortly.  I completely agree that identifying relationships btwn niacin helping / not helping people will play a super super important role in helping us understand what's going on, and differentiating the multiple different types of POIS. 

Daveman you also asked if I've tried the daily patches yet.  I haven't.  A few days ago I took a half dose of T in the AM.  By 4 o'clock I wasn't feeling nearly as good as I was in the early afternoon.  So it seems as if my T is absorbed in spikes, and perhaps the smoothness of a daily patch makes more sense.  I'll bring that up with my doctor when I talk to him next.

I'd just like to add one more disclaimer to my "over the moon" endorsement of Testosterone from a couple days ago.  I've spent 6 months on constant POIS.  Last week, I received a full week of relief, a week of relief that very closely coincided with my testosterone schedule.  I've had exceedingly few "good" days over the last 6 months - so I believe it's not a mere coincidence that the POIS has waned with my testosterone usage.  That being said, I am a long way away from figuring this out.  I had an O 3 days ago now and I still feel crummy, despite the T.  So could the T in combination with something be really helping me?  Will the T become less effective over time?  I really have no idea to any of these questions, but I will keep you all closely posted on how I'm doing.  I know there are some other constant POISers on here that will really benefit from this information.

Also, just to say it, a couple months ago I started keeping a journal, to log everything that I ate and did on the day before I have a really good or really bad day.  So if I have a really bad POIS day, did I eat a ton of cheese the day before?  Did I sleep an abnormally long time the night prior?  what could be affecting my POIS?  I now have a journal I can quickly look to for this information.  So I'm actively working on this.  Will keep ya'll informed of my progress.
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15707 on: 04/03/2012 20:29:14 »
Could you post your testosterone Resultats please? Thank you !

I've kept pretty poor records of my T Tests, because the results are sent straight to my doctor's office.  Next time I go I'll ask for all of them and will post results.
 

Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15708 on: 04/03/2012 21:21:07 »
Check this out.  It's about the relationship between testosterone and histamine.

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/201/4/740.abstract

"Administration of testosterone propionate suppressed the output of free histamine... which showed the effect only after repeated administration of this hormone"

"When repeatedly treated with testosterone, female rats eliminated exogenous histamine more like males."


-  This could be why only the patches of T work for demo and you, it is a repeated administration.


I think this is very interesting especially since myself and others have had significant success from taking antihistamines.
 

Offline Green

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15709 on: 05/03/2012 02:07:01 »
Great stuff Daniel! I'm very happy for you! Testosterone works, very effectively for me, but use with caution as it will exacerbate any underlying Psychiatric issues, my anxieties and depression have heightened, and I used an Aromatase inhibitor to counteract the dumping of excess estrogen.
 

Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15710 on: 05/03/2012 12:12:40 »
Quote from: Green
Great stuff Daniel! I'm very happy for you! Testosterone works, very effectively for me, but use with caution as it will exacerbate any underlying Psychiatric issues, my anxieties and depression have heightened, and I used an Aromatase inhibitor to counteract the dumping of excess estrogen.
This is weird from my perspective. My anxiousness + depression both improved thanks to TRT.  T does increase my stress levels however.

Quote from: B_Daniel
A.  I was on the pill Clomid.  This does regulated your body's internal T production.  I'm now on Axiron, which is a foreign T and has my body producing less of its own.
B. I'm taking 30mg per day.
C.  This is unclear as I've been getting on and off the T.  My T levels were low-normal to normal going in.
Ok, Clomid is a little different. I guess Clomid wasn't raising your T levels enough so your doctor switched you to axiron.  30mg per day is a high dose to start someone off at. Thats 900mg a month, I'm very surprised. When I first went on Sustanon, the doc+ pharma coy recomended only 230mg/month.

Quote from: daveman
Have you ever tried daily patches? It seems that you could achieve better and more stable control over the levels that way. Our two cases of "success" seem to have better success with a "daily method". As you see with B_Daniels report, that the daily method also allows him to tone down a day or two if he feels he's getting to horny. And/or you can boost it a little just after sex, or when you feel it's necessary.
Daveman, I never tried patches (they are expensive imo), but I did try bioidentical Test creme. while it did help to avoid the ups + downs of T injections, I did not feel it as much + I was incuring greater hair loss on it. While I am on 2 primoteston, I split the dosage up, so I take a shot a week and its a slow release ester so I dont get the spikes. It means however I can't fine tune it for post sex pois.

I found that post linking men with high allergy levels to low testosterone very interesting. Its seems pois is like a inflammatory /allergic reaction, so does pois aggravate testosterone production or does low free testosterone levels predispose one to getting pois or suffering from allergies more. The Testosterone link also helps to explain why pois is a male malady (though there was girlwind who used to be on this forum).
« Last Edit: 05/03/2012 12:15:36 by acronym »
 

Offline eur79m

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15711 on: 05/03/2012 14:13:21 »
I am suffering of constant POIS effects since June 2010 after what I believe to have been a trauma of my right testicle during a spinning class ('squeezed on the saddle', swelling, pain, POIS effects started the following days). I was only symptom free during 2-3 days following a surgery on my right testicle (see my previous posts) until I first masturbated again. I believe that I am in that respect a special case since I can potentially link my POIS symptoms to a trauma of my right testicle, followed by (minor) constant pain in this testicle and semen cord and swelling of the lymph nodes in the right groin area.

I have now been seeing GP's, allergologists, urologists at the local university hospital, supplied them with references / literature (Waldinger) and underwent the basic tests. The ***** test came out negative, no allergic reactions to own sperm as well as most other allergens tested. Blood tests were all normal except for the following two points: Phospate 0.39mmol/l (should be 0.87-1.45), Vitamin D 18.2ug/L (should be >20). Both I dont believe are very relevant, I am taking Vitamin D supplement now, no effects. Urin samples were normal, urological ultrasound too. I tried niacin, XN, no effects.

I have some appointments at the hospital again the next days but they basically told me according to their results I am perfectly healthy, they are running out of options, insinuating that it is most likely a newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatoform_disorder [nonactive], etc.

My question to you is thus if there are any further tests that can be done to establish first of all that 'there is something wrong' (which is of physical not mental origin):

- Are there any specific (immunological) tests that are indicative of POIS, show that indeed something is 'out of the normal range'?

- Has any link been established so far between anything physically measurable / testable and the symptoms we are experiencing?

- My Testosterone and Cortisol levels have not been tested so far, would this make sense?

- Did anybody ever have their complete immune system suppressed to see if this has an effect on POIS symptoms? Since so far no link between my symptoms and anything measurable could be established, it would be a valuable insight if a correlation between immune system activity and POIS symptoms could indeed be established (still no proof of causation for a scientist). A doctor that I suggested this to proposed to use steroids as a suppressant. Does anybody here have any experience in this regard?

- Any other options, tests, suggestions?


Once all options today's science has to offer are exhausted I would actually be open to pursue a 'half animus' procedure (right testicle only)... since my POIS is constant (fluctuating between bad and worse depending on sexual activity) and I can establish a direct link between the appearance of my POIS symptoms and testicular pain that started after what I believe was some sort of a physical trauma of my right testicle. Still, on the basis of the knowledge of the topic available, it is far from certain that this would indeed be a 'cure'... I would thus like to have something more concrete/measurable, being able to establish a cause/effect relationship between symptoms and suspected cause before taking any serious measures...


I would be very grateful for your input if you have any information concerning the points mentioned above!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15712 on: 05/03/2012 15:10:18 »
Check this out.  It's about the relationship between testosterone and histamine.

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/201/4/740.abstract

"Administration of testosterone propionate suppressed the output of free histamine... which showed the effect only after repeated administration of this hormone"

"When repeatedly treated with testosterone, female rats eliminated exogenous histamine more like males."


-  This could be why only the patches of T work for demo and you, it is a repeated administration.


I think this is very interesting especially since myself and others have had significant success from taking antihistamines.

GoingCrazy and Vincent Marcus, yes, very interesting!!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15713 on: 05/03/2012 15:18:46 »

- My Testosterone...levels have not been tested so far, would this make sense?


ABSOLUTELY! I - and others - are now nearly POIS-free because of the testing and TRT treatment!
 

Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15714 on: 05/03/2012 23:38:05 »
You men need some solid, scientific research.

Do what you can to alleviate the symptoms in the short term -- but go for that research grant!!! 
 

Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15715 on: 05/03/2012 23:57:45 »
I would like to know how are going some major points :
-Did Prof Waldinger find something else?Would like to share something with us? Would like to send his questionnaire? (since january 2011...)
-Is there still an opportunity to realize a Functional magnetic resonance imaging study before an O, during, and after?
-If we add all the pledges together, what is our current amount for the NORD project? (I have noticed we are over 130 on the POIS center, it means patients who connect more often with us : 260 $ each one and let s find a cure!!! Even less because some of us already pledged over this amount)
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15716 on: 06/03/2012 00:18:26 »
Since I've been experimenting with Claritin, I've noticed what works best for me.  I started with the claritin 24-hour dosage, once per night.  The problem with that was, even though I felt "great" and slept like a baby, it still made me tired for the day after.  I wasn't as active as I'd like to be.

Than I switched to the claritin 12-hour reditabs.  The problem with that was that they worked, but I was not sleeping well.  By saying "they worked" I mean they did what they were supposed to do, like clear runny nose and etc.

So lately I have switched back to the 24 hour claritin but I cut each in half now, so it is a 12 hour pill.  I take one per night and sleep like a baby (again) and feel energetic/happy during the day.  I know the absorbtion rate is different now and that you are not supposed to cut time-released pills, but since it is half of the original pill, I'm sure it is safe.  Their must be some difference between the 12 hour reditabs, and the regular 24 hour claritin.  I'm still POIS free as of my last couple "O's" :)
« Last Edit: 06/03/2012 00:29:18 by GoingCrazy »
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15717 on: 06/03/2012 00:27:43 »


I see there are a few posts lately talking about histamine. I can't remember ever getting an abnormal reading for this on any on my past path tests. what I did score high on though was homocysteine and Immunoglobulin G (elevated levels are associated with allergy and I was in top 0.2% of population). Anti-histamines like Zantec have helped me a bit with brain fog.


It may not be that we have high levels circulating around in our body, it may just be that we are allergic to orgasm, taking antihistamines stop that reaction and prevent the inflammation from even happening.  There could even be a high "local" histamine reaction, most histamine in one place.  I believe homocysteine and immmunoglobulin g are related to histamine release and the swelling of different vessels. Histamine is released, causes a reaction that swells these vessels, and than these chemicals go to work.  It could be that you have this reaction locally in the brain, and than these chemicals are released throughout your body that are readable on a test.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15718 on: 06/03/2012 01:21:28 »

You men need some solid, scientific research.

Do what you can to alleviate the symptoms in the short term -- but go for that research grant!!! 


« Last Edit: 06/03/2012 01:23:21 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15719 on: 06/03/2012 04:40:45 »

One way I fought POIS before my treatment: I got involved in the forum. You can do the same. Get involved.
demo
 

Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15720 on: 06/03/2012 12:17:58 »
I totally agree with Demo :) When I did not know it was a condition shared by "many" people, I was going crazy, without any hope, was stressed and got panick attack to be not understood... I was about to end up my life AND I found this wonderful forum that saved my life definitively !! Now, I am sure there is an issue out of there and am 100% motivated to get away from this condition. This forum is a full box of hope, thank you very much for that :)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15721 on: 06/03/2012 23:21:16 »
Thank you, Habibou!
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15722 on: 07/03/2012 20:40:06 »
Did anybody else try my smoothie recipe? Still working for me, along with my krill oil of course.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15723 on: 07/03/2012 20:53:32 »
What I don't understand is why everybody isn't robbing their neighborhood bank in desperation to fund NORD and get rid of POIS ???!!!????
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15724 on: 07/03/2012 21:21:01 »
What I don't understand is why everybody isn't robbing their neighborhood bank in desperation to fund NORD and get rid of POIS ???!!!????
at least their piggy banks.
can you guys hold me accountable for this, this spring break(in two weeks) am going to write out the reditt campaign thing and let everyone criticize it, before posting on reddit.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15724 on: 07/03/2012 21:21:01 »

 

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