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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6436411 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1650 on: 20/10/2008 22:59:19 »
Good job Tarkington. I try Reduce the cortisol release all the time but paradoxically i try to boost cortisol the day after ejaculation :)

Oxytocin modulates stress hormones as cortisol and ACTH.

B_Jim, thanks, how do you do that? (reduce then boost)
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1651 on: 21/10/2008 00:51:48 »
Good article, Chewbacca. You have linked Levitra and oxytocin.


This could help explain how Levitra works, good going Chewbacca!

Good luck in your test B_Jim, hope you get some positive results!

 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1652 on: 21/10/2008 01:10:01 »
Fantastic post hurray on oxytocin and fenugreek. It was something I always wondered about from both a POIS and CFS aspect. There is a well known doctor who has success with some of his patients by giving them oxytocin, but it didnt seem that it worked for all his patients. When I enquired about it with my CFS doc he didnt seem to see the connection in regards to immunity + it was a hormone that had a clrear role for women but not really for men. I didn't push on it as it required regular (I think daily) IV injections. Something like oxcytocin would explain the differences in pois between the sexes. Also its role in social anxiety and appetite helps to support it case, and Chewbacca's post linking it to ED meds was great in helping to make the connection to Levitra.
I've read a couple of articles on it and I get conflicting info on fenugreek. Some say it mimics oxytocin and others say its synergestic and others say it stimulates the pituitary to produce more. Depending on how it works we could get variable results. I've started to trial it.

I've been thinking more on nitric oxide and I'm not so sure now. When I was younger I could hang a wet towel off my boner, and if I had an orgasm, the refactory period was under an hour and I was good to go again. To me this indicates a very healthy level of NO. If we were wiping out our NO levels then it would make sense that POIS would get worse as we get older and that does not seem to be the case.

Its annoying how many symptoms and circumstances are not quite the same for everyone. Some people get fever like effect, some people get diarrhea, neither of which I get. Then some people say ejeculation is a big deal and other say not (for me its not) and then some say an all out orgasm is worse and others say its better (I'm the latter).

Thanks Acronym - I hope you are able to get some benefit from Fenugreek also! Interesting to hear your CFS docs opinion on oxytocin.

I agree that it's annoying that the symptoms are inconsistent for different people, however this is probably true for most illnesses. Counterpoints list is a great summary of the symptoms reported so far in this thread, I find myself agreeing with virtually all the Group 1 symptoms.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1653 on: 21/10/2008 01:14:51 »
Demografx,
Quote
John, if you never "escaped" POIS in the past with "small NE" this would be a good sign! (I never escaped it   <<real tears).

Huh? As you know I had some success after NEs this summer while consuming raw garlic, but then later on had some POIS symptoms after an orgasm. This week I'm not sure if it is the garlic or the fenugreek that prevented any symptoms.

The two pills of fenugreek have messed up my sleeping somewhat so hopefully I will be able to take it again after my sleeping gets regulated again.
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1654 on: 21/10/2008 01:20:14 »
Well I didn't wake up with female breasts this morning, this is good. :D Last night I had an NE (it seemed somewhat small), and today I had zero POIS effects. I am still consuming raw garlic so I can't say if fenugreek is responsible or not, but I am hopful that it turns out to be of assistance.

Good stuff Tarkington, nice to hear you had some positive results. When I tried Relora I was very sensitive to it. It aggrivated my insomnia so I gave up on it.



Great news John, I hope the combination keeps working for you! As for me, the effect of Fenugreek on POIS has not been retested yet, although I have carried on taking the fenugreek every day as it has been a great help to me socially. No signs of breast growth yet :)

Good news tarkington, I hope the Relora keeps working for you!

Interesting that Relora, like Fenugreek, is known to relieve anxiety.

(just seen your new post John, hope your sleeping gets back on track, did not notice a disturbance myself, but I tend to sleep very soundly)
« Last Edit: 21/10/2008 01:22:01 by hurray »
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1655 on: 21/10/2008 01:59:14 »
Thanks everyone for the support.  I would definitely try Relora if you suffer from the mental symptoms of POIS.  But just remember that I still can feel the effects, however they are about 10% of what they used to be.

The feeling in the body after orgasm (like a rush a warm liquid through the veins) must be hindered by the Relora.  Maybe that feeling is excess cortisol.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1656 on: 21/10/2008 04:48:13 »
John, I wasn't clear. Before garlic or any other POIS treatment-test, did you ever have NO POIS after a "small NE"?

If you ALWAYS had POIS no matter how "insignificant" the NE or other orgasm, then it seems like you're definitely on to something!

Hope that's less ambiguous. It's not easy for me to articulate my thought! (no I'm not in-POIS :))
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1657 on: 21/10/2008 11:07:45 »
Demografx,
Ok now I understand, the answer is no. In my past I have not associated the "size" of an NE with any variance in POIS symptoms.
« Last Edit: 21/10/2008 11:10:57 by John21 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1658 on: 22/10/2008 01:56:45 »
Demografx,
Ok now I understand, the answer is no. In my past I have not associated the "size" of an NE with any variance in POIS symptoms.

So that tells me things are working for you, because you normally experience POIS with ANY NE, but now you're seeing abatement. Does that sound right?
 

Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1659 on: 22/10/2008 08:30:15 »
Can anyone tell me the link to that place where you can request your own blood test?  I've been lookin through the forum, but can't find it...and my pois isn't exactly helping any.

I've ordered bacopa and fenugreek to give them a try.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1660 on: 22/10/2008 10:29:31 »
Demografx, yes that is generally correct, any NE throughout my life would normally produce NE symptoms.

Pyropeach, I would suggest you try raw garlic and/or fenugreek, you may want to ease onto the fenugreek slowly. Bacopa...I don't really know much about that one, I was just surfing around and mentioned that it looked interesting, it might be a shot in the dark.

Disclaimer: check with your doctor for medical advice, ie. possible drug interactions of any herbal supplement
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1661 on: 22/10/2008 15:12:51 »
In this document about pde5 inhibitors, perhaps there is an answer concerning the differences between levitra (vardenafil) and cialis (tadalafil). They say that vardenafil has more potency than the other. And I'm not sure, levitra has a better affinity for pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 than cialis . What can we do with this. It won't be me ! http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/24/6_suppl/S52.pdf
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 03:07:52 by martin88 »
 

Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1662 on: 23/10/2008 00:39:57 »
Just got the results of my thyroid test back. According to the test, my thyroid is workin good. My read out was:
TSH 0.74, T-3 total = 111, and Thyroxine free = 1.4. So I guess I don't have hypothyroidism...at least not according to the doc.

On a different note, tomorrow I'm going to see a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. I'm going to get a full Diagnosis. I don't know what you guys all think of Chinese medicine but they have been at it now for about 2 thousand years so there has to be something to it. Maybe they will have an insight. Anywho, I'll let you know what they have to say about POIS.

Also, I just started taking Kyolic aged garlic supplement. We will see how it goes. I'm hesitant to take fenugreek until I know more about it. Demorafx scared me when he said it was advertised as a way for women to increase breast size. I'm going to wait and see if anybody gets breast...then I'll give it a shot:) I'll also ask the TCM doctor about fenugreek.

Tip of the day: massage before sex seems to lessen my POIS symptoms(oxytocin boost) Give it a shot.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1663 on: 23/10/2008 02:05:16 »
Can anyone tell me the link to that place where you can request your own blood test?  I've been lookin through the forum, but can't find it...and my pois isn't exactly helping any.

I've ordered bacopa and fenugreek to give them a try.

I think that was ZRT Labs, posted by girlwind.
http://www.zrtlab.com/default.aspx?s=1
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 02:35:31 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1664 on: 23/10/2008 02:19:34 »
Demografx scared me when he said it was advertised as a way for women to increase breast size. I'm going to wait and see if anybody gets breast...then I'll give it a shot:) I'll also ask the TCM doctor about fenugreek.

Sorry to have scared you. My googling was uninformed, and also the random search result didn't say how fenugreek affects males. Chewbacca, I'm just trying to introduce a little caution here so that people don't blindly ingest substances - based on someone's enthusiastic post - even though they seem innocuous on the surface. Fenugreek seems harmless enough, but knowing that my body - like everyone's - is unique, I just would want to know a little more from someone more knowledgeable than me. Like my doctor, or like my local health food store owner who is a professional nutritionist, athlete and college instructor and someone whom I've known for years.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1665 on: 23/10/2008 02:31:06 »
In this document about pde5 inhibitors, perhaps there is an answer concerning the differences between levitra (vardenafil) and cialis (tadalafil). They say that vardenafil have more potency than the other. And I'm not sure, levitra have a better affinity for pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 than cialis . What can we do with this. It won't be me ! http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/24/6_suppl/S52.pdf

Martin, excellent finding, that was very interesting! I've wondered - and others here too, I think - about Levitra/Cialis differences. And now we know there is a difference!

I'm lucky that I was given Levitra first. If it was Cialis and I had the same poor result as before, I would have never thought about ED meds - or their components - possibly helping POIS!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 02:32:41 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1666 on: 23/10/2008 03:17:58 »
Can anyone tell me the link to that place where you can request your own blood test?  I've been lookin through the forum, but can't find it...and my pois isn't exactly helping any.

It could be also in this post : http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg199872#msg199872
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1667 on: 23/10/2008 03:23:51 »
Martin, excellent finding, that was very interesting! I've wondered - and others here too, I think - about Levitra/Cialis differences. And now we know there is a difference!
For the Vardenafil it seems that maybe it's not the pde5 but the pde 2,3,4,7,8,10,11 which are helping you. We are stuck with this now ! We can just play the lottery with these numbers !

On a different note, tomorrow I'm going to see a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. I'm going to get a full Diagnosis. I don't know what you guys all think of Chinese medicine but they have been at it now for about 2 thousand years so there has to be something to it. Maybe they will have an insight. Anywho, I'll let you know what they have to say about POIS.
Hi Chewbacca, this is great! Let us know about the results. Where did you find this practitionner ? I hope he's knowing something about herbs. I sent a letter recently to a TCM clinic in Germany but they didn't answer, it's a deception for me. I think I'll send them another letter.
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 03:45:45 by martin88 »
 

Offline Shahnameh

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1668 on: 23/10/2008 04:53:00 »
The Fenugreek all but cured me. Hurray, thanks for the great advice.

I've been keeping up with this thread for a while now, but I never felt the need to post. I simply didn't have anything to add to the discussion. My symptoms are typical of the ones this thread describes: for a couple of days after an orgasm, I can't sustain any thinking longer than a few seconds. Some slight depression also hit me during these post-orgasm periods.

But now that the Fenugreek has proven that it can clear that oppressive brain fog, I just want to give my appreciation to Hurray. I probably would never have stumbled upon Fenugreek on my own.

If anyone out there doesn't know which of the many proposed remedies to try, definitely give Fenugreek a try. I've been through three orgasm to post-orgasm cycles, and the Fenugreek has worked every time. After orgasm, there's only a slight sluggishness for an hour or so. After that, I'm back to being active and alert. Maybe three cycles isn't enough to prove conclusively that the Fenugreek isn't merely a placebo, but the Fenugreek has yet to let me down.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1669 on: 23/10/2008 06:17:11 »
The Fenugreek all but cured me. Hurray, thanks for the great advice.

I've been keeping up with this thread for a while now, but I never felt the need to post. I simply didn't have anything to add to the discussion. My symptoms are typical of the ones this thread describes: for a couple of days after an orgasm, I can't sustain any thinking longer than a few seconds. Some slight depression also hit me during these post-orgasm periods.

But now that the Fenugreek has proven that it can clear that oppressive brain fog, I just want to give my appreciation to Hurray. I probably would never have stumbled upon Fenugreek on my own.

If anyone out there doesn't know which of the many proposed remedies to try, definitely give Fenugreek a try. I've been through three orgasm to post-orgasm cycles, and the Fenugreek has worked every time. After orgasm, there's only a slight sluggishness for an hour or so. After that, I'm back to being active and alert. Maybe three cycles isn't enough to prove conclusively that the Fenugreek isn't merely a placebo, but the Fenugreek has yet to let me down.

SHAHNAMEH, WELCOME TO THE POIS FORUM!

YOUR POST IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL ENDORSEMENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE POIS FORUM!

TO EVERYONE: I CONTINUE TO ADVISE CAUTION. ASK YOUR TRUSTED HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL IF FENUGREEK IS RIGHT FOR YOU. I HOPE IT IS!
(FOR YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, INTERACTION EFFECT WITH OTHER SUBSTANCES TAKEN...AND POIS!)

THANK YOU FORUM-MEMBER HURRAY FOR PUTTING THIS IN MOTION!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 06:34:31 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1670 on: 23/10/2008 06:29:29 »
Shahnameh, would you kindly describe your Fenugreek protocol? Timing, dose, and any other consideration. Thank you!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1671 on: 23/10/2008 09:00:44 »
And Fenugreek just may be the direct-hit of oxytocin that is needed for POIS? The Wisconsin article that B_Jim shows above says that enough is not known yet about ED drugs such as Levitra's stimulation of oxytocin production...in humans. Maybe it's hit or miss? Maybe that's why I had no relief from Cialis? And why Levitra is inconsistent? (sometimes 50% alleviation of POIS, other times 75%)
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 09:12:14 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1672 on: 23/10/2008 09:30:39 »
Yes, B_Jim, I agree, it seems that the lack of oxytocin production is a major factor in POIS and why Levitra and Fenugreek are showing success!
« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 11:34:40 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1673 on: 23/10/2008 14:49:32 »
I'd like to know how can you know that oxytocin is the effective ingredient from fenugreek ?

From the Waldinger's paper :
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased
AND
However, oxytocine has been suggested to negatively interfere with cognition

I took fenugreek when I was in my mid twenties but it's frustrating, I didn't notice it was so helpful. There was a slight improvement of pois symptoms but not enough. Maybe I'm not a typical case of pois and I have mixed diseases along with pois so I'm not a reference. Also my fenugreek pills had sugar around them, I couldn't find an other brand. I think fenugreek has other properties : it lowers potassium and blood sugar level. Remember Finally's post, he's better with salt which is decreasing potassium, and one of my post states I'm aggravated by vegetables (in pois), however if I'm sexually abstinent I'm improved with vegetables. There is a link between adrenals and potassium/sodium.

It's written below, do not take St John's Wort with fenugreek (I know some of you take this). And also with garlic there is a risk of bleeding for some people !

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT FENUGREEK:
Quote
Interactions
Interactions with drugs, supplements and other herbs have not been thoroughly studied. The interactions listed below have been reported in scientific publications. If you are taking prescription drugs, speak with a health care professional or pharmacist before using herbs or dietary supplements.

Interactions With Drugs
Fenugreek may interfere with the absorption of other drugs that are taken orally, and fenugreek should be used at least two hours before or after any prescription drug. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when used with anticoagulants (blood thinners) or antiplatelet drugs. Examples include warfarin (Coumadin), heparin and clopidogrel (Plavix). Some pain relievers may also increase the risk of bleeding if used with fenugreek. Examples include aspirin, ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and naproxen (Naprosyn, Aleve, Anaprox).

Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. Caution is advised if you are also taking drugs that may lower blood sugar levels. Patients taking oral drugs for diabetes or using insulin should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary.

Because fenugreek may lower potassium levels in the blood, its use with some diuretics, such as hydrochlorothiazide; mineralocorticoids, such as fludrocortisone (Florinef); or laxatives is not recommended because potassium levels may become too low.

Several other drugs interactions have been suggested, but there are no data in humans proving that these interactions exist. Fenugreek may increase the side effects of monoamine oxidase inhibitors or estrogens, may alter the effects of thyroid hormones, may increase the toxic effects of digoxin (Lanoxin) or may inhibit the activity of corticosteroids, such as prednisone.

Interactions With Herbs And Dietary Supplements
Very few interactions between fenugreek and herbs or supplements have been reported. Fenugreek may lower blood sugar levels. People using other herbs or supplements that may alter blood sugar levels, such as bitter melon (Momordica charantia), should be monitored closely by a health care professional while using fenugreek. Dosing adjustments may be necessary. In theory, fenugreek may increase the risk of bleeding when also taken with other products that are believed to increase the risk of bleeding. Examples include Ginkgo biloba and garlic (Allium sativum).

Although not studied in humans, fenugreek may, in theory, increase the toxicity of glycosides, such as foxglove, or of agents with monoamine oxidase inhibitor properties, such as St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum). Fenugreek may also increase the laxative effects in people who use agents such as psyllium or may increase the estrogenlike effects in those using phytoestrogens such as red clover (Trifolium pratense).

« Last Edit: 23/10/2008 15:55:55 by martin88 »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1674 on: 23/10/2008 16:22:17 »
I took fenugreek when I was in my mid twenties but it's frustrating, I didn't notice it was so helpful. There was a slight improvement of pois symptoms but not enough. Maybe I'm not a typical case of pois and I have mixed diseases along with pois so I'm not a reference.

WOW, you guys are really on a roll with fenugreek. I'm glad it's been helpful for some of you.
Like you, Martin, I've tried fenugreek in the past, but I don't recall it being helpful. 

In the mean time, I am working on hormonal issues (adrenals, thyroid, estrogen, DHEA)--which are much more complex
(and annoying) than I imagined.   ??? ???  Also, my hopes for finding a really good compassionate and brilliant MD
were dashed once again. I think there is something in medical school training that programs doctors to be authoritarian
know-it-alls, nixes their compassion and demolishes their capacity for analytical thinking. It's a fact that most doctors
don't read medical journals and learn very little new once they've graduated med school. What I think I'm saying is that
I'm pissed.  >:(  I spent $250 out of pocket for a doctor visit that was fruitless, totally unproductive.  But the good news
is that I found a DO who works at the local health food store on Wednesdays, and does ten minute consults FOR FREE.
I got all my questions answered and walked out cured of the doctor visit!  :D

 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1674 on: 23/10/2008 16:22:17 »

 

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