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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6460335 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1725 on: 27/10/2008 20:42:23 »
RESEARCH SOURCE FOR SUPPLEMENTS (and Rx meds)

According to my pharmacist-lawyer friend, www.pdrhealth.com is a good, credible source for Rx drugs AND herbal medicine and supplements, like Fenugreek, which is shown below. He advises to always check for interaction effects of herbals/supplements with other meds/supplements you're taking. Your pharmacist can check for those interaction effects, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Fenugreek example
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altmed/altmed-mono.aspx?contentFileName=ame0071.xml&contentName=Fenugreek&contentId=234

« Last Edit: 27/10/2008 20:53:21 by demografx »
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1726 on: 27/10/2008 20:53:23 »
Limejuice,
Does your insomnia problem happen specifically post-sex, or is it a chronic condition that becomes worse with POIS?
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1727 on: 27/10/2008 22:53:48 »
...released twice to ensure no placebo effect...

all in the name of science! ;D

Thanks much for posting, Limejuice!



:)


Thanks Limejuice for testing Relora.  How many times per day do you take Relora?


I've taken 250 MGs three times per day for a total of 750 MGs (that is the recommended dosage according to the bottle).  Perhaps a higher dosage would reduce the affects even more.  How does that compare to your dosage?


Limejuice,
Does your insomnia problem happen specifically post-sex, or is it a chronic condition that becomes worse with POIS?


John - I've always been a light sleeper but after release it's extreme.  Its funny because after release I'll feel tired all day but when bedtime comes I'm wide awake (specifically when closing my eyes).  The insomnia will decrease at the same rate of the other symptoms, usually after 4 days.  I know this sounds bazzar but its true.
« Last Edit: 27/10/2008 23:07:13 by Limejuice »
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1728 on: 27/10/2008 23:48:44 »
Ok thanks I was just curious. My insomnia is chronic early morning waking with difficulty getting back to sleep, it is not affected directly by sex. My suspicion is that it arose in part because of the extreme stress of dealing with severe POIS for so many years.

By the way people, fenugreek is most likely available for sale at your local Indian grocery, in different forms: seeds (to grind), preground, etc. This method might not be a precise way to measure how much you are consuming, but if the stuff works for you and you want to make take it routinely it might save you money.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1729 on: 28/10/2008 01:21:52 »
Ok thanks I was just curious. My insomnia is chronic early morning waking with difficulty getting back to sleep, it is not affected directly by sex. My suspicion is that it arose in part because of the extreme stress of dealing with severe POIS for so many years.

I have the same kind of insomnia--waking up btwn 3-5 am, and not being able to get back to sleep.
It's common among those with CFS, and has something to do with a hypothalmic/adrenal imbalance.
I have found L-tryptophan in combination with magnesium and to be my most effective remedy for this.
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 01:23:29 by girlwind »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1730 on: 28/10/2008 02:43:15 »

Relora is still working great for me.

I've tried Relora this week and it does nothing for me. I can't even feel it.
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1731 on: 28/10/2008 02:57:24 »
I take 750 mg per day.  I sleep fine.  It sounds like everyone has their own cure.  I am not sure why it works for some and not others.  All I know is that it is worth the try.

I wasn't able to sleep when I used to have an orgasm before I went to bed.  After I started taking Relora I sleep fine when I have an orgasm and when I dont.
 

Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1732 on: 28/10/2008 04:12:44 »
RE: Girlwind - sleep post
I also have had the same problem for years with being a light sleeper. Sleep issues have alternated from having difficulty falling to sleep when I was younger to later also having the problem of waking up btwn 3-5 am, and not being able to get back to sleep. I had sleep study done (instigated due to low GH/IGF) and it showed I hit all 4 sleep stages but with many wake ups in the 3-6am range. Supplements that help me in various configurations are : Valerian herb, plus also those other sleepy time herbs like hops + passionflower are okay, decent dose of chelated magnesium + calcium, melatonin, and the drug Surmontil very low dose - is great for positive dreams, and Baclofen. L-tryptophan was also pretty good, but is harder + more expensive to get thanks to pharmaceutical coys + AMA pressure on the govt that make an essential amino acid a regulated.

RE : Relora
In relation to Tarkington's post on Relora for relief from POIS and this treatment for stressed and anxious relief. I have found over the years that stress reduction helped my POIS to a reasonable extent. More so when I was younger, post POIS, my stress and anxiousness levels would rocket up, so dealing with this helped to ameliorate symptoms. There were periods when I took high dose Ca + Mg + also relaxation herbs + mega Vit-B, L-theanine, Tryptophan, relaxation CDs, etc. and my CFS/POIS was not as bad.  Beta-Blockers never made any difference for me however. Downside of this higher does regime was that it made it difficult to study or to do well in the gym or be aroused. When I subsequently had a girlfriend and backed off a bit on this + also increased frequency of orgasm, my stress + anxiety levels soon returned with a vengeance. I can relate to recent post by someone where they said their health would steadily improve over the weeks as they went without orgasm, but as soon as they had one they were soon back in POIS territory.

One of the blood tests I have is for homocysteine. I have quite high levels and am having hard time getting it to come down. I gather itís tied in with stress levels, and is somewhat of a biochemical marker for aging. I also read med publications that link homocysteine with Nitric Oxide. When NO is high homocysteine is low and vice versa. Not sure if it has implications for POIS but just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has had theirs measured.

Because increase in my level of stress is a major symptom for me with regards to POIS I had made the connection to Cortisol years ago as well. I have had 1 or 2 24 hr urinary cortisol pathology tests and I showed up as being normal, so it's a shame I cannot make a solid connection there. I remember someone making the comment in this forum that sex is good for the immune system, but I remember also reading where increased frequency of sex was in fact immunosuppressive. I think it was at the level of greater than 4 times a week, and they determined this by measuring the subjectís level of cortisol.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1733 on: 28/10/2008 14:38:58 »
Thanks Acronym for all your input re: sleep and insomnia remedies. I think that in my case there is sometimes
a histamine reaction (to pollen, mold, chemicals, etc) that affects my sleep as well. At those times anti-oxidants like
grapeseed extract or pycnogel can be helpful.  Or that really strong herbal anti-inflammatory herb mix--Zyflamend.
I've had many causes to that 3-5 am insomnia cycle (infections, allergies, stress reactions, POIS, toxic exposures),
but the symptoms of restlessness and frontal brain agitation are always the same. The remedy in each case is different
though, which can make it tricky to find the relief. There have been a few times that I've resorted to Benadryl, and it
worked, but gave me a rebound effect later, where all my symptoms worsened.

L-Tryptophan is the most consistently helpful for my insomnia, and I've had no problem finding it. I buy it from the
Vitamin Shoppe. (And btw it's on sale now for about $15--for 60 caps, so I've stocked up!)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1734 on: 28/10/2008 14:42:35 »
IMPORTANT: OXYTOCIN AND RELORA - PLEASE READ!

From my pharmacy-lawyer friend:

OXYTOCIN

"Oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."

RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 14:49:00 by demografx »
 

Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1735 on: 28/10/2008 15:13:15 »
RE: Demografx..Oxytcin...Relora

I remember reading somewhere...I think it was on the "reuniting sex" website that girlwind mentioned in an earlier post, that oxytocin cannot get into the Central nervous system(post pituitary gland) either orally or through the blood stream because of the blood brain barrier. I think nasal sprays are the only exception. However, taking fenugreek is not like taking oxytocin. fenugreek is an oxytocin synergist. Meaning it causes your body to produce more oxytocin, it does not supply oxytocin. The mechanism through which it is believed that fenugreek increases levels of oxytocin is a steroidal saponin called neotigogenin. I would never take oxytocin directly, even in a nasal spray(there have been no studies done on POIS and oxytocin!)Having said all that, I still don't think RX drugs are good to mix with fenugreek.

The active ingredients in Relora are Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense. Not sure how these interact with RX meds, but probably better to be careful as well as demografx suggests.

Other possible oxytocin synergists I've read about are: red raspberry leaves, cotton wood bark, Blue Cohosh and a few others. fenugreek is just one!
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1736 on: 28/10/2008 15:34:01 »
Thanks for the information!  Nice to know what were putting into our bodies.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1737 on: 28/10/2008 16:37:40 »
IMPORTANT: OXYTOCIN AND RELORA - PLEASE READ!

From my pharmacy-lawyer friend:

OXYTOCIN

"Oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."


Oxytocin may be dangerous, but it is quickly becoming the new rage with researchers as a
"CURE" for shyness.  Check out this article in the London Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4187791.ece
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1738 on: 28/10/2008 17:10:52 »
...I would never take oxytocin directly, even in a nasal spray...

Thanks, Chew, that was the main concern!
 

Offline longwalkhome

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1739 on: 28/10/2008 17:56:18 »
I'm afraid I have to report a major setback with Fenugreek  [:-[]. I was okay twice while I've been taking it, with only a few minor problems (as I said in my last post). But the third time around POIS came back in full swing, and work has been hell today. This is disheartening to say the least. I will use up the bottle of Fenugreek pills that I bought and see if this was an exceptional experience, but right now I'm a little skeptical about its effects.

How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarassment to tell them the truth ...
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1740 on: 28/10/2008 18:31:55 »
Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1741 on: 28/10/2008 18:58:01 »
tarkington:

What you say is true with me too.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to conduct another test (as put elliquently by demografx, in the name of science).  All day before release I digested a full dose of Relora (the previous day I had none).  Today I feel only minimal POIS symptoms - the worst symptoms are gone, which for me are brain fog and communication issues.  However, some symptoms still remain such as the ability to relate to someone emotionally or the feeling of extreme excitement.  Now the remaining symptoms could be a side effect of the Relora (the Relora has a large impact on my personality - I feel extremely relaxed and mildly tired) but I'll willing to bet it's distorted POIS symptoms.

More experiements and time will tell.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1742 on: 28/10/2008 19:52:40 »
Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   

The "something" that Relora prevents from happening with you most likely has to do with preventing
an aggravated cortisol spike after orgasm, because that is what Relora is supposed to do--lower
cortisol.

This to me is more evidence of the endocrine issue with POIS. The fact that oxytocin has a relationship
to the HPA axis (Hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal) of endocrine events, points back to this as well.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1743 on: 28/10/2008 19:57:37 »
I'm afraid I have to report a major setback with Fenugreek  [:-[]. I was okay twice while I've been taking it, with only a few minor problems (as I said in my last post). But the third time around POIS came back in full swing, and work has been hell today. This is disheartening to say the least. I will use up the bottle of Fenugreek pills that I bought and see if this was an exceptional experience, but right now I'm a little skeptical about its effects.

longwalkhome, I really appreciate very much your candor and willingness to post! But don't feel bad, I think everyone goes through this. I know I have many times. I was convinced testosterone cured my POIS, then it stopped working.

And then my last time, Levitra didn't work as well as it has for over one year of solid results! But the "setback" made me think, as B_Jim suggests, to look for other factors. I avoided release so long this time (2-3 months, I lost track) that I'm sure I set up significantly different bodily conditions for myself to react to "the cure".

So keep the faith! Keep experimenting! And you're doing a great service reporting this, so that others can watch things more closely! I'm so glad I didn't give up - and did I ever want to! - for the 30+ years I've had this.


How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarrassment to tell them the truth ...

I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenlightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely disappoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 20:16:49 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1744 on: 28/10/2008 20:14:18 »
tarkington:

What you say is true with me too.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to conduct another test (as put elliquently by demografx, in the name of science).  All day before release I digested a full dose of Relora (the previous day I had none).  Today I feel only minimal POIS symptoms - the worst symptoms are gone, which for me are brain fog and communication issues.  However, some symptoms still remain such as the ability to relate to someone emotionally or the feeling of extreme excitement.  Now the remaining symptoms could be a side effect of the Relora (the Relora has a large impact on my personality - I feel extremely relaxed and mildly tired) but I'll willing to bet it's distorted POIS symptoms.

More experiements and time will tell.

Great going, Limejuice!
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1745 on: 28/10/2008 20:23:00 »
I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenleightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely dissapoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!

Having CFS and POIS for 30 years, I am very selective about who I tell what to. If I feel that someone
is an unempathetic type, I have no qualms about withholding the truth or making up an interesting
sounding version of it. I've told many such types that I have a long term auto-immune condition or
a Natural Killer cell maladaptation problem. That usually shuts them up.

On the other hand, if someone feels empathetic, then I'll be willing to be more forthcoming with the
real truth, and they will have the priviledge of knowing it.  (Priviledge is the key word for me on this.)
No one deserves an explanation about anything as personal as your health, unless they feel deserving
of it.
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 23:07:32 by girlwind »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1746 on: 28/10/2008 20:33:52 »
...I also read med publications that link homocysteine with Nitric Oxide. When NO is high homocysteine is low and vice versa. Not sure if it has implications for POIS but just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has had theirs [homocysteine] measured...

Very interesting. Since NO seems worth exploring (Levitra works for my and another Forum member's POIS and it increases NO), I wonder if testing homocysteine "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS" might tell us something?
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 20:35:34 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1747 on: 28/10/2008 20:40:13 »
I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenleightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely dissapoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!

Having CFS and POIS for 30 years, I am very selective about who I tell what to. If I feel that someone
is an unempathetic type, I have no qualms about withholding the truth or making up an interesting
sounding version of it. I've told many such types that I have a long term auto-immune condition or
an Natural Killer cell maladaptation problem. That usually shuts them up.

On the other hand, if someone feels empathetic, then I'll be willing to be more forthcoming with the
real truth, and they will have the priviledge of knowing it.  (Priviledge is the key word for me on this.)
No one deserves an explanation about anything as personal as your health, unless they feel deserving
of it.

You're right, girlwind, there is a risk in disclosing to certain people. The one I discussed above was an old friend and we just renewed our acquaintance.
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 21:33:59 by demografx »
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1748 on: 28/10/2008 20:41:34 »
Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   

The "something" that Relora prevents from happening with you most likely has to do with preventing
an aggravated cortisol spike after orgasm, because that is what Relora is supposed to do--lower
cortisol.

This to me is more evidence of the endocrine issue with POIS. The fact that oxytocin has a relationship
to the HPA axis (Hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal) of endocrine events, points back to this as well.

After brief research, I've concluded the same points - that POIS most certainly impacts the function of the Hypothalamus-pituitary chain.  I haven't disclosed this but exercise significantly reduces the recovery period from POIS symptoms after release.  According to several reputable medical sites (webmd and others) evidence shows that exercise enhances healthy function of the endocrine, specifically promoting a liberal hypothalamus to balance off centered hormones (such as exercise reduces stress, increases insulin, and stabilizes the conversion of T4 to T3).  In case my logic isn't clear above, exercise reduces POIS symptoms and promotes a healthy endocrine system, and the POIS symptoms are identical to those of an unbalanced endocrine.  So as girlwind indicated, POIS may be affecting the endocrine system.  However, targeting the root cause within the endocrine is misleading.  Each individual endocrine function such as they thyroid, gonads ect, appears to be affected by POIS according to the respective symptoms, which draws the conclusion that the main endocrine controls or hypothalamus/pituitary is the culprit. Anyways, that's my theray.

This theray supports the relora evidence that only some symptoms are diminished and that other suppliments and PX are temporary solutions because they only treat part of the problem.

This information is most likely disclosed within the 76 pages of TNS discussions but incase it isn't, voila.
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 20:54:28 by Limejuice »
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1749 on: 28/10/2008 21:01:12 »
Wow, this cortisol peak does make sense. I am taking herbs to increase kidney yang (TCM; corresponds somehow with cortisol I was told), but in the 2 days following orgasm I don't need them physically, and then for a few days days after that I need much of it, my body just keeps asking. It's just like at first cortisol is in overdrive and then depleted.

Anyway I am preparing full conclusive blood tests, so I'll post them when it's done. I am trying to get before the event,  5 minutes after the event (AE), and 2 more sometime AE.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1749 on: 28/10/2008 21:01:12 »

 

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