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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6432459 times)

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17425 on: 19/12/2012 17:58:08 »
From a doctor specialising in MHTR + methylation....
"Niacin speeds up COMT which is one reason why it also may be useful. If one speeds up COMT, then things like dopamine and epinephrine get broken down faster. Niacin also is a ‘sponge’ for methyl groups, namely SAMe, because SAMe is required to metabolize niacin."  COMT is Catechol-O-Methyltransferase enzyme.
I know this goes against a number of us who feel we are low in dopamine. I can understand why our body is flooded with it during sex/arousal, but why if it is not broken down properly it would it make up feel days later like we are low in it.

I got my 23andme results. I have heterozygous C677T and A1298C mutations to the MTHFR gene. Chances of me being "over-methylated" without supplementation seem very low.
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17426 on: 19/12/2012 18:14:41 »
Actually my COMT genes appear completely normal. i.e. no mutations at all based on what I saw on SNPedia so I can take more dopamine production without any problems and could handle methylfolate and methyl b12.
Unfortunately, I seem to be a carrier for hemochromatosis and have a bunch of CBS mutations. The end result, it makes sense why methionine makes me feel better but gives me an upset stomach and I have to watch my folate intake carefully. Perhaps it's not active but it gave me pause for thought.
 

Offline Kingkong

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17427 on: 22/12/2012 21:34:36 »
Hi Nomore2013, here is my answer to your question. So I began to take flunarizine on november 19th. Yesterday december 21th I had an O at 20 o'clock. I went to sleep at 22 o'oclock and I woke up this morning at 9 o'clock. I had some POIS symptoms this morning. But very ligth symptoms. A little brain fog, fatigue, a little irritable. I could say that by 13 o'clock today, every symptoms are gone. Flunarizine is very efficient whith me. I must say that I am a anxious person since I was born. And I must take citalopram since many years now. Since I'm taking flunarizine, I have to sleep more. Flunarizine give me a fatigue that I didn't have before. This fatigue getting lighter each day since the begining of the treatement. Otherwise, I could say that I'm very satisfied whith flunarizine. I'M wondering if that fatigue come from the combinaison of taking citalopram and flunarizine. My doctor told me that flunarizine can take 8 weeks to be full efficient. I'M this only patient having POIS so he don't know this desease. He is convinced that is the sides effects of flunarizine making me fell good after an O. I'm seeing my doctor on january 21th. He is discovering POIS and the treatement whit me. I'M so happy of these results that I would recommand  to everybody  try this treatement but I know that everybody have to be carefull whit drugs. 
 

Offline Kingkong

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17428 on: 22/12/2012 21:45:12 »
And I must say that usually it takes me 6-7 days to be OK after an O whithout flunarizine. Also, my doctor told me that the fatigue cause by flunarizine should disappear after 2 or 3 month of the treatment
 

Offline nomore2013

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17429 on: 22/12/2012 23:03:16 »
thank you king kong for the info.

i posted something regarding headaches on the other forum.
newbielink:http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=831.0 [nonactive]

it was a post by lauracostis. you can view it there or goto page 639 of this forum for an explanation.
 

Offline gabin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17430 on: 25/12/2012 12:16:27 »
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17431 on: 25/12/2012 13:51:39 »
May be POIS is a genetic disease like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine_palmitoyltransferase_II_deficiency#Diagnosis

Perhaps it is but it's not Carnitine Palmitoyltransferase deficiency as if it was, I'd have CC instead of AA at http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs28936673
One of the benefits of getting your genes tested is you can rule out a lot of genetic diseases.
I think POIS sufferers have a mast cell disorder brought about by methylation problems, probably low levels of BH4 / tetrahydrobiopterin. Also those with MAO A deficiency may have higher levels of serotonin, reduced levels of oxytocin and, hence, higher levels of prolactin following an orgasm. All without having an actual tumour causing the prolactinaemia.
Read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14514683
This is interesting too. http://www.autismcoach.com/Articles.asp?ID=262
and http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/101/8/752.full
 

Offline gabin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17432 on: 25/12/2012 14:42:25 »
May be POIS is a genetic disease like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine_palmitoyltransferase_II_deficiency#Diagnosis [nofollow]

Perhaps it is but it's not Carnitine Palmitoyltransferase deficiency as if it was, I'd have CC instead of AA at http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs28936673 [nofollow]
One of the benefits of getting your genes tested is you can rule out a lot of genetic diseases.
I think POIS sufferers have a mast cell disorder brought about by methylation problems, probably low levels of BH4 / tetrahydrobiopterin. Also those with MAO A deficiency may have higher levels of serotonin, reduced levels of oxytocin and, hence, higher levels of prolactin following an orgasm. All without having an actual tumour causing the prolactinaemia.
Read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14514683 [nofollow]
This is interesting too. http://www.autismcoach.com/Articles.asp?ID=262 [nofollow]
and http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/101/8/752.full [nofollow]
Yes, I've also read about prolactinaemia and came to conclusion that symptoms match quite closely and was interested in it for a while, but everywhere it's written that tumor is required to be present..
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17433 on: 25/12/2012 23:16:47 »
Sure, unless you have low levels of oxytocin for some reason. In a "rat model" it appears that oxytocin lowers prolactin. Not sure whether this applies to people. I'll look it up.
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17434 on: 27/12/2012 07:05:59 »
A few of us have gotten our DNA analyzed.    In fact, there have been three of us in total so far- kurtosis, nomore2013, and me.  CertainlyPOIS is also submitting his saliva for testing soon.  There's a lot of benefit to have this testing done, but the main benefit is to eventually have enough data (sample size of 10-20 of us) for a researcher to examine and make inferences with some degree  of confidence.  Ultimately, the goal is for this researcher to locate specific mutations that we all have in common that could explain pois.  With just 3 samples right now we've identified some similarities of certain defects and other issues, but 3 is obviously not enough to draw any conclusions.  With some more samples we can get a better picture of all this and try to figure out what it means.

The testing costs btwn $120 and $180 after shipping  costs of the saliva sample to the lab.  If you think you might be interested in having your dna analyzed and contributing to this project, please shoot me a pm and I can give you some more details.  Thanks guys.
« Last Edit: 27/12/2012 07:18:23 by B_Daniel »
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17435 on: 27/12/2012 10:39:37 »
Nightingale has told me he's also getting the testing done.
In my case, I think the testing is a good idea. I'm feeling better every day taking methylfolate and some other things which help with some obvious methylation cycle impairments revealed by genetic testing.
 

Offline nomore2013

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17436 on: 27/12/2012 16:47:44 »
the test cost $300 until a month ago. now its down to $100.
its definitely worth it.
 

Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17437 on: 27/12/2012 16:53:28 »
As i read in Dr's Waldinger announcement he said that when the semen is in the testis there is no problem and only after an ejaculation the symptoms began.In my case things are slightly different..Yes i have the POIS symptoms after an O (mostly mental symptoms) but the weird thing is that there is no symptom after an nocturnal emission..I dont get it..Nocturnal emission is an ejaculation right ? So why there are no symptoms after this

Hi chris 18. Nocturnal emissions caused less symptoms for me because they occurred during sleep which is a healing time. Perhaps this is what is happening in your case as well.

About niacin, it is true that many of our members have benefited from this vitamin including myself. Most of the discussion about it has been at our main forum at poiscenter.com. Here is one post that partly describes our usage of niacin for POIS: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=75.msg692#msg692

There is a specific protocol you must follow if you want to use niacin for POIS. The first step is buying the right kind (nicotinic acid) and making sure that it is not the "no-flush" type. Also make sure it is not niacinamide or slow-release. We have had the greatest benefit with the flush type so you will want to have the niacin flush, which is a hot-itchy feeling in your skin and your skin will turn reddish for a short period. It's safest to start with 50mg if you are concerned about this flush. Most of our members need about 200mg to get the flush. You should take the dose about an hour before orgasm and wait for the flush to happen about half an hour later and orgasm as the flush is beginning to die off or just after it goes away.

If you can't get a flush with 200mg then you will need to fast for about 5 hours prior to dosage to make sure you take it on an empty stomach.  After your niacin arrives immediately wrap it in plastic or something air-tight or else it will become less effective - For instance I didn't wrap mine up even though I always closed the bottle and after a few months I now need 500mg to flush where as originally I only needed 200mg. Taking it more often will cause tolerance and probably make it less effective as well, but I've only taken it a few times over the past year so I haven't had that problem.

Taking niacin after an orgasm usually doesn't help much for us. So you will want to take it before an orgasm as I described above.

Here is a post that summarized each individual member's experience with niacin (Recorded are 21 positive experiences and 6 negative): http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

The flush is considered completely safe and you can google "niacin flush" to verify this. There is a slight concern of liver damage, but doctors sometimes prescribe up to 1,000mg of niacin daily for short periods to lower cholesterol so I'm sure that taking 200-400mg once a week would be completely fine.
« Last Edit: 27/12/2012 19:27:50 by Vincent M »
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17438 on: 27/12/2012 17:00:22 »
Forgot to mention- Willem, the former forum member who pioneered d-i-y slit, is participating in the genetic testing as well!
« Last Edit: 27/12/2012 17:31:04 by B_Daniel »
 

Offline chris 18

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17439 on: 27/12/2012 20:15:32 »
As i read in Dr's Waldinger announcement he said that when the semen is in the testis there is no problem and only after an ejaculation the symptoms began.In my case things are slightly different..Yes i have the POIS symptoms after an O (mostly mental symptoms) but the weird thing is that there is no symptom after an nocturnal emission..I dont get it..Nocturnal emission is an ejaculation right ? So why there are no symptoms after this

Hi chris 18. Nocturnal emissions caused less symptoms for me because they occurred during sleep which is a healing time. Perhaps this is what is happening in your case as well.

About niacin, it is true that many of our members have benefited from this vitamin including myself. Most of the discussion about it has been at our main forum at poiscenter.com. Here is one post that partly describes our usage of niacin for POIS: newbielink:http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=75.msg692#msg692 [nonactive]

There is a specific protocol you must follow if you want to use niacin for POIS. The first step is buying the right kind (nicotinic acid) and making sure that it is not the "no-flush" type. Also make sure it is not niacinamide or slow-release. We have had the greatest benefit with the flush type so you will want to have the niacin flush, which is a hot-itchy feeling in your skin and your skin will turn reddish for a short period. It's safest to start with 50mg if you are concerned about this flush. Most of our members need about 200mg to get the flush. You should take the dose about an hour before orgasm and wait for the flush to happen about half an hour later and orgasm as the flush is beginning to die off or just after it goes away.

If you can't get a flush with 200mg then you will need to fast for about 5 hours prior to dosage to make sure you take it on an empty stomach.  After your niacin arrives immediately wrap it in plastic or something air-tight or else it will become less effective - For instance I didn't wrap mine up even though I always closed the bottle and after a few months I now need 500mg to flush where as originally I only needed 200mg. Taking it more often will cause tolerance and probably make it less effective as well, but I've only taken it a few times over the past year so I haven't had that problem.

Taking niacin after an orgasm usually doesn't help much for us. So you will want to take it before an orgasm as I described above.

Here is a post that summarized each individual member's experience with niacin (Recorded are 21 positive experiences and 6 negative): newbielink:http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958 [nonactive]

The flush is considered completely safe and you can google "niacin flush" to verify this. There is a slight concern of liver damage, but doctors sometimes prescribe up to 1,000mg of niacin daily for short periods to lower cholesterol so I'm sure that taking 200-400mg once a week would be completely fine.

Great..Thanks a lot for the help!
 

Offline Kingkong

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17440 on: 27/12/2012 23:40:47 »
A few of us have gotten our DNA analyzed.    In fact, there have been three of us in total so far- kurtosis, nomore2013, and me.  CertainlyPOIS is also submitting his saliva for testing soon.  There's a lot of benefit to have this testing done, but the main benefit is to eventually have enough data (sample size of 10-20 of us) for a researcher to examine and make inferences with some degree  of confidence.  Ultimately, the goal is for this researcher to locate specific mutations that we all have in common that could explain pois.  With just 3 samples right now we've identified some similarities of certain defects and other issues, but 3 is obviously not enough to draw any conclusions.  With some more samples we can get a better picture of all this and try to figure out what it means.

The testing costs btwn $120 and $180 after shipping  costs of the saliva sample to the lab.  If you think you might be interested in having your dna analyzed and contributing to this project, please shoot me a pm and I can give you some more details.  Thanks guys.
Hi B_Daniel, I am interested to have dna analyzed. Please send the details and I will do it. Thank you.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17441 on: 28/12/2012 00:06:16 »
A few of us have gotten our DNA analyzed.    In fact, there have been three of us in total so far- kurtosis, nomore2013, and me.  CertainlyPOIS is also submitting his saliva for testing soon.  There's a lot of benefit to have this testing done, but the main benefit is to eventually have enough data (sample size of 10-20 of us) for a researcher to examine and make inferences with some degree  of confidence.  Ultimately, the goal is for this researcher to locate specific mutations that we all have in common that could explain pois.  With just 3 samples right now we've identified some similarities of certain defects and other issues, but 3 is obviously not enough to draw any conclusions.  With some more samples we can get a better picture of all this and try to figure out what it means.

The testing costs btwn $120 and $180 after shipping  costs of the saliva sample to the lab.  If you think you might be interested in having your dna analyzed and contributing to this project, please shoot me a pm and I can give you some more details.  Thanks guys.

Dont be stupid like me, i wasted the preservative liquid.  Closing that lid as you will see if you  buy the kit will release the preservative liquid so don't closed that lid until you are ready to prepare your sample.
 

Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17442 on: 28/12/2012 00:49:18 »
Hi guys, i read that taking niacin can vanish the symptoms of POIS after an ejaculation. I also watched a video in which a guy says that niacin helps him disappear the symptoms..Is this true ? Has anybody tried it ? I need some information please ..

Hi chris18 I think you have watched The Catalyst documentary. You should follow Vincent Marcus advice. I am the guy who appears in the program and I can tell you that today, 1 year and 4 months after I began to experiment with the niacin, it stills gives me excellent results, so you should try it. If you want more suggestions, you can send me a PM, Good luck!
 

Offline nomore2013

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17443 on: 28/12/2012 01:49:50 »
Hi B_Daniel, I am interested to have dna analyzed. Please send the details and I will do it. Thank you.

amy yasko is the leader in genetic testing and methylation. she has her own test she does, which costs $500.

23andme is the biggest and most popular genetic testing service, and by recently receving a $50 million grant, they are able to reduce their rate from $300 to $100.

amy yasko only tests the methylation genes, and tests more of them. 23andme is all about quantity. some of the genes 23andme misses are:

NOS (nitric oxide synthase) - ammonia detoxification
SUOX (sulfite oxide) - sulfur detoxification

VDR Fok -vitamin d
BHMT-01 - homocysteine-to-methionine shortcut (through betaine)
MTRR S275T - homocysteine-to-methionine long way

the first 2 are completely absent from the 23andme test, and the later 3 are partially absent. they are important, but the most important genes are the MTHFR, MTRR and MTR, SHMT and ACAT, COMT, CBS, ACE, MAOA.

you can see the difference between them here.
newbielink:http://www.mthfrsupport.com/1/post/2012/11/yaskos-comprehensive-methylation-panel-or-23andme.html [nonactive]

so which test should you get? for methylation purposes, i think amy yasko's test is better, but its so expensive. 23andme's test is good too. it doesnt have everything, but it has most stuff. since everything is interconnected, it would be nice to have the full picture, but it would be nice to have a discount too.

sorry for making things confusing.


 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17444 on: 28/12/2012 12:56:08 »
TBH while POIS may have a methylation element, that doesn't mean it's the same as autism and we can't say that one test is better than the other yet. For example Nomore, we both have MAO-A mutations. Even if we had nothing else, we'd notice those mutations. They'd affect levels of neurotransmitters such as histamine and serotonin.

Also, I do not believe that Yasko's RNA products are necessary, they are very expensive, treatment requires a huge amount of supplements and their claims have not been evaluated by the FDA. So while I think it might be reasonable to experiment with methylfolate (and I seem to be getting results) I'm much less convinced about spending 150 bucks a month on vitamins & RNA supplements when there are not published clinical trials that show their efficacy.

There's are published papers suggesting how MTHFR and MTRR can effect health. There are published papers on BH4's effect on neurotransmitter levels and even mast cells instability. Yasko's references many of these in her freely available books but she's making big claims about autism treatment that have not been verified by anyone else.

If you're in doubt, have a look at this presentation on ATP, RNA and why ingesting the latter isn't a good idea. http://bartholomewcubbins.blogspot.ie/2006/09/bc-on-autism-episode-15-rna-quackery.html
Why would I suggest that these RNA products need to be FDA investigated and regulated. Well, because the basic chemistry says that RNA has OH groups on the Ribose (sugar) which are very reactive. End result, it's really unlikely it would survive intact to get into the bloodstream effectively, never mind be absorbed by cells past the lipid by layer. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_bilayer

So if this stuff works, it's Nobel prize winning medical science & I can't think of a single scientist I've met who wouldn't want to put in place a proper clinical trial and submit to peer review to verify Nobel prize winning work.

This has nothing to do with whether MTHFR and other gene mutations effect enzyme synthesis. They must as it's like the body has a faulty instruction manual but I'm skeptical of anything more than synthetic enzymes and vitamins to help treat these diseases & I'd urge POIS sufferers to show some caution before handing over lots of money. the 23+me test promises nothing but some genetic testing and a report of speculative data. You can check individual genes on SNPedia using promethease and the links reference published research. You can then find a doctor who can draw their own conclusions. What we really need are university-based medical researchers who are looking for a cool thesis idea and who we can convince to study POIS.
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17445 on: 28/12/2012 14:01:15 »
Just to clarify my point about 23+me. When I say it promises nothing, that's a good thing. They're not promising to heal or cure you. They're very modest in their claims. The reports describe risk and are based on statistical findings but they're not conclusive for most illnesses and for an illnesses like Huntington's where genetics predict conclusively whether you'll develop the disease, they don't test for it. I think it's a limitation of the chip, perhaps deliberate.

The reasons I like the service are
1) it's now quite cheap and will probably attract more clients.
2) they give you a lot of genetic data in a format that other software tools and websites can read.
3) they are contributing to scientific research & they tell you new information about your genetics as they develop new analysis at no extra cost.
4) they are not claiming to heal you, they're just providing information.
5) They are actively seeking FDA approval http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/02/23andme-wants-fda-approval-for-personal-dna-testing-what-can-it-reveal/
 

Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17446 on: 28/12/2012 21:34:49 »
Hi B_Daniel, I am interested to have dna analyzed. Please send the details and I will do it. Thank you.

Fantastic!  I'll PM you later today!
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17447 on: 29/12/2012 03:19:26 »
Just found out this morning that they just found physical evidence for chemo brain. The researcher did PET scan before patients went on chemo therapy and did scan again after. They found certain parts of the brain had lower activity.
If you dont know anything about chemo brain the mental symptoms are similar to pois and for years have been getting you look fine and your test does not show anything.

This is more reason why we need to be pushing for true knowledge.
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17448 on: 29/12/2012 17:12:23 »
I mentioned the simlilarities between POIS symptoms and chemobrain a few years ago after listening to an NPR broadcast. Im glad to see someone else notice the same.

Can you please list the article or source for this test that occurred so others can do further research, possible look at whatever test they have developed and see if it could be use to detect POIS?

er i think i got it here:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2012/12/06/studies-revive-debate-over-chemo-brain/1751841/
« Last Edit: 29/12/2012 17:14:19 by Defsync »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17449 on: 29/12/2012 20:05:08 »
I mentioned the simlilarities between POIS symptoms and chemobrain a few years ago after listening to an NPR broadcast. Im glad to see someone else notice the same.

Can you please list the article or source for this test that occurred so others can do further research, possible look at whatever test they have developed and see if it could be use to detect POIS?

er i think i got it here:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2012/12/06/studies-revive-debate-over-chemo-brain/1751841/

i was listening to npr. After things die down, as the article says she is receiving lots of emails, i will email and see if she can help there is a solid amount of us in california.

i believer couple of us have had pet and ct scans. the key it looks as if is a before and after test.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2012 20:11:43 by CertainlyPOIS »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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