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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6450595 times)

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1775 on: 30/10/2008 23:42:57 »
According to this article, maybe you should also take an adrenal test with a thyroid test.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/endocrinology/a/adrenalfatigue_2.htm

It's incredible how the symptoms mentionned in this page are identical to pois.

Also in the second page of the article they have interesting suggestions, including the following :
-low-dose hydrocortisone
-avoid stimulants
-low sugar diet
-siberian ginseng
-astragalus
-fo-ti root
-triphala
-black cohosh
-chamomile
-lemon balm (melissa) (also it has an antiviral effect)


Yes! Cortisol levels and thyroid are very much inter-connected. (That's why I think it's a good idea to do the
entire Comprehensive Male (or Female) Profile I, if you are testing through ZRT.) When your adrenals burn out, the
thyroid has to pick up the slack. And when the thyroid becomes exhausted, then it's a double whammy of a crash.

That's a very good article with great natural remedies for the glands, including adaptogenic herbs. I would also add
schizandra and ashwaganda to the list. Ashwaganda is adaptogenic for the adrenals, and in addition
it helps the body with conversion of the T4 to T3 thyroid hormones. (I am taking it right now for just that reason.)

Black cohosh is primarily used for women who are going through menopause and need to balance their estrogen/
progesterone hormone levels, so I'm not sure why it made the list....?
« Last Edit: 30/10/2008 23:44:58 by girlwind »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1776 on: 31/10/2008 00:05:36 »
Girlwind, thank you, VERY helpful! Sorry I made you repeat things, I have *CRS.

*Can't Remember Sh**

Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 00:23:04 by girlwind »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1777 on: 31/10/2008 00:53:40 »
Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 00:59:14 by demografx »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1778 on: 31/10/2008 01:18:46 »

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)

I think doing both would be ideal, but getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in
and of itself. I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the
local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years.

But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range. To get a fine-tuning on the
results would require a little more research. I have had help with that from others with CFS. Some-
timees patients know more than doctors about these kind of things.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1779 on: 31/10/2008 01:34:52 »
...getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in and of itself...
Great, that makes it easier to start out.

...I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years...
Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?

...But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range...
Reassurance that we don't need to have a Ph.D to understand this!

...Some-times patients know more than doctors about these kind of things...
Sad but true.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 01:43:46 by demografx »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1780 on: 31/10/2008 02:38:36 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1781 on: 31/10/2008 02:44:51 »
You're right Girlwind, black cohosh has an estrogenic activity. Maybe not good for men. It has also an oxytocic property. Personally I don't think I'll try black cohosh but there are a lot of foods which contains estrogens, perhaps not the same amount I don't know. Here is a list : http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/hrt/hrt_food_and_estrogen.htm
If you read all the page there is also a list of estrogen inhibiting foods.

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1782 on: 31/10/2008 03:42:15 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1783 on: 31/10/2008 04:05:57 »
Thank you for completing the informal pituitary test :)  I've compiled the results and totaled them below.  Some of the questions were poorly geared towards measuring hormone level but others seemed to generate consistant results.  Heres the data:

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? below, below, average, average, above

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? low, low, low, low, low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS?  high, high, high, high, high

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? low low, low, low, low

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? no conclusive results

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? no conclusive results

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): no conclusive results

As seen above, the last few questions generated inconclusive data and most likely the questions poorly measure their respective pituitary hormone.  However, other questions generated precise and informative trends.  For example, the sex drive, stress, and energy questions answered were the same 5 for 5.  These pituitary hormones were Prolactin, TSH, and ACTH.

As girlwind and demografx have done, it may be worth testing thyroid hormone as well as prolactin and acth.  Last week I visited a Endocrine  specialist because my TSH was out of range (high).  Had I discovered this thread before, I would have tested the other hormones in addition to the Thyroid tests the specialist did.

Other results - I've had several TSH tests done other the past year.  I've had a wide range of TSH levels differing from test to test.  My results have been 6.3, 4.1, 4.5, 5.3.  Does anyone know if this fluctuation is typical in 'healthy' thyroid function?  If I recall correctly the 6.3 result was taken right after my girlfriend spent the night...   I should receive the TSH results from the specialist within a couple days now.  She also did additional thyroid tests though I don't know what.  I've also had free t3 and free t4 test but the results were normal - just TSH was wacky.

I'll keep you posted.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1784 on: 31/10/2008 12:24:36 »
6',167 lbs, low libido, high stress, low energy , I can have kids, 4 days to 3 weeks of pois, thoughts are affected by carbs or alcohol.

About glycemia I have done a lot of tests at home and all were always in the normal range between 5 and 6 mmol/l, before or after meals. If someone has a protocol for a glucose tolerance test I can do it.
I think glycemia is not affected in my pois but it's always possible that the body has to make more efforts (eg. nutrients depletion) to regulate glycemia in pois.
Someone in my family has a tool for this(see the next link), it's not very expensive for what it does for diabetics, you find it in a pharmacy. You're using a new needle for every test. You feel absolutely nothing, no pain at all with this. (think about a mosquito, you need only a small drop of blood).
I think you can have it for free but you'll have to buy the needles and the paper tests separately (check the price before).
https://offers.bayerdiabetes.com/CouponReg.aspx?product=contour

PS
maybe you have to buy the lancing device separately also.
the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done.Only a small part of the needle is going under the skin.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 13:06:36 by martin88 »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1785 on: 31/10/2008 14:53:51 »
Last week I visited a Endocrine  specialist because my TSH was out of range (high).  Had I discovered this thread before, I would have tested the other hormones in addition to the Thyroid tests the specialist did.

Other results - I've had several TSH tests done other the past year.  I've had a wide range of TSH levels differing from test to test.  My results have been 6.3, 4.1, 4.5, 5.3.  Does anyone know if this fluctuation is typical in 'healthy' thyroid function?  If I recall correctly the 6.3 result was taken right after my girlfriend spent the night...   I should receive the TSH results from the specialist within a couple days now.  She also did additional thyroid tests though I don't know what.  I've also had free t3 and free t4 test but the results were normal - just TSH was wacky.


High TSH, above 3.0, with normal T3 and T4 can be indicative of a milder hypothyroidism. It means that your
pituitary is pumping out a higher than normal level of thyroid stimulating hormone. (.3-3.0 are the NEW NORMAL
ranges, though some thyroid experts say that it should not be above 2.0.)

As for the significant variation in results... that is strange and I have no idea why it would vary so much. You should
read up on this to be prepared for your visit with the Endocrinologist.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 15:07:56 by girlwind »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1786 on: 31/10/2008 14:59:47 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!

Demografx: Get over it. It's a few drops of blood, not a major organ donation!

Like Martin says: "the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done. Only a
small part of the needle is going under the skin."


Think of it as a small sacrifice, in the name of POIS research, to benefit all humankind.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1787 on: 31/10/2008 15:29:46 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!

Demografx: Get over it. It's a few drops of blood, not a major organ donation!

Like Martin says: "the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done. Only a
small part of the needle is going under the skin."


Think of it as a small sacrifice, in the name of POIS research, to benefit all humankind.

I'd still rather pay your airfare to come out and draw my <gasp!> blood!!!

Your chicken Moderator,
demografx

ps - human sacrifice went out with the printing of the Old Testament!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 15:34:10 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1788 on: 31/10/2008 15:59:58 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1789 on: 31/10/2008 16:13:45 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.

OK, Martin, I'll fly you AND girlwind out here to hold my hand! ;D

 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1790 on: 31/10/2008 17:00:45 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.

OK, Martin, I'll fly you AND girlwind out here to hold my hand! ;D


You are too much! I think you should just go find some LEECHES to suck the blood out for you.
Then you can decapitate them and squeeze the blood out of their little black bodies for the test.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1791 on: 31/10/2008 17:04:57 »


European medicinal leech

You are too much! I think you should just go find some LEECHES to suck the blood out for you.
Then you can decapitate them and squeeze the blood out of their little black bodies for the test.

OK, girlwind!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 17:08:01 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1792 on: 31/10/2008 17:15:49 »


BEST WISHES FOR A
HAPPY POIS-IMPROVED HALLOWEEN EVERYONE!!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 17:19:55 by demografx »
 

Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1793 on: 31/10/2008 20:23:48 »


BEST WISHES FOR A
HAPPY POIS-IMPROVED HALLOWEEN EVERYONE!!


ty
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1794 on: 01/11/2008 00:38:16 »
Chewbacca,
Quote
So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Do you have a link to the report on male breast size enlargement due to fenugreek? To me even the claims of enhancing female breast size with it sound like a sales gimmick to sell supplements. I understand it has a definite effect on lactating women but it strikes me as doubtful that it increases breast size in non-lactating women, and even more so for men. After all, it is a common ingredient in Indian recipes. I would think that if it actually worked it would be very well known and used by small breasted women everywhere, and silicon breast implants wouldn't have as much allure.


If you google fenugreek men breasts, the first search refers to the 15 week thing:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_fenugreek_cause_breast_enhancement_in_men

This could be what Chewbacca was referring to. It's up to every individual to determine the risks and benefits of different POIS treatments for themselves. I would recommend checking with a doctor before doing anything - having said that, I wonder how many doctors have even heard of fenugreek, let alone have a sophisticated opinion on its effects on your hormonal balance.

Some anecdotal information about fenugreek and its effects on breast growth can be found here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=3274877

I agree that if it really did increase breast size substantially this would be widely known, you would imagine that millions of women would be enthusiastically recommending fenugreek to one another!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1795 on: 01/11/2008 01:55:09 »
UPDATE ON SCIENTIST FRIEND
An old school buddy was one of the first scientists (1980) to study HIV-1 protease (for AIDS). I sent him an email, hoping to get his thoughts on how our forum can be aided by the scientific community.

He called me today and we chatted. He is willing to help us. His first reaction to POIS was the IL-6 protein, I'm googling it and invite anyone else to do the same. More info below.

His discussion and followup email revealed some amazing sources I never heard of...Government resources meant for people like us. Feel free to research along with me, starting with the sites below. He and I will chat again mid-week.

his email

Hi [demografx],

I’m sorry that we lost our connection on the phone.  I’ll try to call again in a few minutes. 

In the meantime, let me send you the links I mentioned.

Office of Rare Diseases at the National Institutes of Health:

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/

Rare Disease Clinical Research Network:

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/Wrapper.aspx?src=asp/resources/extr_res.asp

CRISP – a database of all NIH grants awarded; this might be a good way to find someone working on your condition:

http://crisp.cit.nih.gov/

National Organization for Rare Disorders:

http://www.rarediseases.org/

...check out their rare disorders database / index:

http://www.rarediseases.org/search/rdblist.html

http://www.rarediseases.org/search/rdbsearch.html

Finally, the “flu-like symptoms” that you mentioned are reminiscent of side effects that one sees with certain drugs and drug candidates (e.g., rifalazil for tuberculosis), that stimulate an “immunomodulator” protein called IL-6.  The link below is to a database of all scientific literature (since 1964), which you can search for your condition AND IL-6:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/gquery

I hope this helps.  Please send me the name, institution and publication for the investigator in the Netherlands that you mentioned, and I’ll try to figure out who else may be doing similar work.[I email-replied with Waldinger POIS study and link to our forum, girlwind's video, and Counterpoints' questionnaire - demografx]

All the best,
[name]
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 02:07:35 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1796 on: 01/11/2008 01:59:08 »
VERY IMPORTANT:

Before taking fenugreek (or relora), PLEASE GET A CORTISOL BLOOD TEST (both AM and PM cortisol).  If you have already taken these drugs, I suggest to stop taking them temporarily, for a few days, and then GET TESTED.  (I would also highly recommend getting the test WHILE SYMPTOMATIC).

My pm cortisol level (while minimally symptomatic) was 420 nmol/L (ref: 50-300 nmol/L).   I also had prolactin and TSH tested at the same time (both were normal).

I am now going to get a urine test, and an AM test and a PM test on the same day. 

This article on the effects of high cortisol on cognition http://library.thinkquest.org/C0126536/main.php?currentchap=6&currentsect=deterio.htm
describes MANY of my pois symptoms, and may explain intolerance to glucose.

SO GET TESTED, AND TRY TO AVOID ALL MEDICATIONS THAT COULD INTERFERE WITH YOUR CORTISOL LEVELS BEFOREHAND (CONSULT PHYSICIAN).
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 02:04:56 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1797 on: 01/11/2008 02:15:04 »
Counterpoints, thank you! As you know I've expressed concern about the tested/ingested items in the Forum. With your research on cortisol, you've taken this a step further than I did with my pharmacology-lawyer friend.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1798 on: 01/11/2008 03:12:23 »
Thanks Demografx.

If I understand things correctly, fenugreek and relora should help lower our cortisol levels, which is a good thing.  But taking them before a cortisol blood test would then give us inaccurate results.  I took a cortisol blood-test, in which my high cortisol levels were alarming (at least to me).

It suggests that POIS symptoms could be caused by very high cortisol levels.  So I suggest to everyone that they cut all cortisol affecting medications (whether they make levels high or low), and get tested -- just to see whether this could be causing your POIS.  Of course, consult a physician first (which you will likely need to do in order to get the tests ordered, anyways).
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1799 on: 01/11/2008 04:04:27 »
IL-6 AND PROLACTIN?

I found the following reference from my research friend that shows IL-6 can over-stimulate prolactin (and create POIS?)

Does anyone see a connection with what we found out previously about prolactin? I can't tell.

Thanks!

from http://www.lef.org/dsnews/ds_letter_2004_jul.htm#2

Prolactin: Sex and Immune Activation
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 04:10:08 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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