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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6431143 times)

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17825 on: 28/02/2013 17:49:59 »
Nathan, 

You are one funny dude,    you are taking  B6  and you expect your blood levels  to be normal?  Stop testing your serum , it is not accurate and  not relevant.
Take what I told you to take. And yes you will feel bad on it for a while.

 

Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17826 on: 28/02/2013 18:25:33 »
Nathan, 

You are one funny dude,    you are taking  B6  and you expect your blood levels  to be normal?  Stop testing your serum , it is not accurate and  not relevant.
Take what I told you to take. And yes you will feel bad on it for a while.

Yes, Herman, I am taking what you have suggested.  But I am under the supervision of the doctor, I just informed all the forum members to try any medication under the supervision of their doctors, so that there will be a confidence in all.   I convinced my doctor and he agreed for your theory and he is supervising to see my Vit B6 serum level not go to the peak.  that's all.  As I started your program, I will update the results at regular intervals. 

I have one question, whether zinc is a water soluble or Fat soluble.  Further, to convince my doctor, I want to know how to prove I am suffering from Copper deficiency, which test I need to undergo for this other than serum.  Pl explain.

Once more thanks
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17827 on: 28/02/2013 18:59:42 »
Hi Herman, Hi Everybody,

I totally agree with you Herman when you say POIS is systemic problem ; it is chain reaction, all we have been doing is treating parts of the chain, never the the root cause and it's right, the reliefs we have had was mostly temporary or partial

Mineral/alimentation/environment seem to me to be a really good culprit for being a root cause

I understand very well what you said about we are all different and each persons depending of its own biochemestry need to be adressed with different cures ; That makes senses

But in my opinion we should have (maybe 75-80% of us)the same problem ; POIS has pretty specific symtoms : triggered or gotten worsed by orgasm, reversible symtoms over a 3 to 7 days period, difficulty thinking and speacking, social withdrawal) ; we are not in a some forum talking about vague diseases related to mineral unbalance ;

I believe its possible to different(even opposite as you talk about copper deficient/toxic) cause can lead to the same symtoms ; but not 20

So we have the same problem(with individual variation), I guess the solution should be coming from the same direction

Anyway I'm curious and i'm trying right now the B6 for 5 days and add the zinc yesterday.

I'm high in prolactin, use to be low in testo(but apparently not reliable),high in cholesterol, my feritin is just in the middle of the range like cortisol,my copper serum is low(don't know if reliable) Niacin doesn't really work for me, I don't feel alergic when i'm in POIS, NSaids is the only thing that work for me and i'm not positive to skin ***** test.

So Herman what type am I from your typologie ?
Do you think POIS is nothing else than pyroluria ? What the link with Orgasm(does it pump the B6 and Zinc even more ?)

Thanks
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17828 on: 01/03/2013 01:51:35 »

I just want to give my Congratulations to all those who have helped with the nord efforts on pois center.   I dont share some people's extreme optimism with regards to this study, but nevertheless i think every one of us supports research and we should be very proud of this pretty major accomplishment together.


Thank you for your support.

« Last Edit: 01/03/2013 02:03:48 by demografx »
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17829 on: 01/03/2013 11:31:32 »
Hi all,

I had my testo rechecked : i'm 6,80 ug/l so i'm just in the range for my age - I was 2,66 ug/l 6 month before

What it interesting is the bio available testosterone : i'm 0,90 ng/ml(was 0,57 last test) wich is pretty low by just considering it and very abnormal by comparating it to total testo ; The ratio(bio available/total)seems low.

First time it was a risk of false result, 2nd time I guess there is something real.

So I guess, there is either a problem of over utilisation of testosterone what leave a few free or probleme for release testoterone and make it avalaible for the body

Do you guys have tested your Bio available testoterone checked ? It can be tricky to just test the total testosterone wich in my case this time is normal
« Last Edit: 01/03/2013 14:52:56 by LAPOISSE2 »
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17830 on: 01/03/2013 16:16:16 »
LAPOISSE

 Most here have low testosterone levels. Since most  have  copper imbalance and estrogen dominance , which happens during adrenal fatique.  Why?   because copper  irritates adrenals and  they  pump, and pump and pump until they have no nutrients to pump with.   How does it happen?      During stress you lose  magnesium and  zinc,  so it opens up  sodium and  lowers potassium in the cell.   When the losses of  magnesium and zinc  are severe   you get panic attacks.  When you are in stress,   progresterone is used for cortisol, and  thus the balance  between       
progesterone and estrogen  gets impaired.    That is how you get into  estrogen  dominance,   Сopper starts to build  up and  it makes adrenals pump more aldosterone.   
So the cases are all different and  some people  can have  adrenals still pumping , and some can  have them already   burned out.   that is why  everyone needs  different things.      I will answer your questions about your  results over the weekend.  and post them here. 
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17831 on: 01/03/2013 16:46:31 »
Thank you Herman,

An other thing about my results : my red blood cells are low and my prolactin is high as usual
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17832 on: 01/03/2013 16:56:45 »
6 month ago whan I was really low in testosterone, I was also low in estradiol 40,40 pmol/l (99-393)

you said i'm oestrogen dominant ?
 

Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17833 on: 01/03/2013 20:34:48 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17834 on: 01/03/2013 21:52:55 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?
Not me :)
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17835 on: 01/03/2013 21:54:00 »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17836 on: 01/03/2013 23:25:39 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?

no one: but it seems like the group does not want one, at least not an aggressive one.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17837 on: 02/03/2013 02:07:18 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?

no one: but it seems like the group does not want one, at least not an aggressive one.

:)
 

Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17838 on: 02/03/2013 05:22:38 »
The connection between vitamin D deficiency and VDR mutation.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/06/10/vitamin-d-deficiency-linked-to-genetic-polymorphisms/ [nofollow]

This 2010 Lancet study seems to focus on DHCR7/NADSYN1, CYP2R1 and GC genes. I think these genes control transport and biosynthesis of 1,25(OH)_2D, while VDR is downstream. See this link on 1,25(OH)_2D biosynthesis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2675652/figure/fig1/ [nofollow]

According to this site: http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#VDR [nofollow] Taq:  Vitamin D Receptor Taq Abnormality
VDR Taq + together with COMT(-/-) causes low dopamine in general, and needs methyl donors..

I recently read some articles questioning some of Dr.Amy's claims:
http://web.mit.edu/london/www/cbs.html [nofollow]
that suggests
Urinary ammonia test is unreliable
Urinary taurine test is unreliable
glutathione deficiency may be caused by SOD1/2/3 mutation.

Kurtosis, have you done any blood test on glutathione? I wonder if there is a way to directly measure it. Thanks!

I am rethinking what I have learned so far, A1298C mutation seems quite pronounced. VDR bsm and taq (++) seems to be not very rare in  general population.

 

Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17839 on: 02/03/2013 14:14:36 »
Update on my status:

I agreed the Herman Copper toxicity theory and about to start the vitamins and minerals that he is suggested and consulted my doctor.  My doctor also quite impressed by his theory and he suggested me to undergone, Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.  He told that it is the most accurate test to determine imbalance in minerals in the body tissues.  I ordered this Test and gave my sample hair.  It will take around one month for the report in our area. 

I also advised each and every one to do this analysis before starting any vitamin & mineral supplements. 

 

Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17840 on: 02/03/2013 14:18:36 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?

no one: but it seems like the group does not want one, at least not an aggressive one.

I'm not the man for the job, but I think we should have a moderator who can perform their duties objectively and fairly.  I don't feel that all the posters know how to be objective and fair, and there should be oversight.  I want to talk about science and nakedscientist.com, and not things that are off that theme.

Is there someone who is interested in being a mod?  I'd help vouch for you if you are up for it!
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17841 on: 02/03/2013 14:23:21 »
The connection between vitamin D deficiency and VDR mutation.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/06/10/vitamin-d-deficiency-linked-to-genetic-polymorphisms/

This 2010 Lancet study seems to focus on DHCR7/NADSYN1, CYP2R1 and GC genes. I think these genes control transport and biosynthesis of 1,25(OH)_2D, while VDR is downstream. See this link on 1,25(OH)_2D biosynthesis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2675652/figure/fig1/

According to this site: http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#VDR Taq:  Vitamin D Receptor Taq Abnormality
VDR Taq + together with COMT(-/-) causes low dopamine in general, and needs methyl donors..

I recently read some articles questioning some of Dr.Amy's claims:
http://web.mit.edu/london/www/cbs.html
that suggests
Urinary ammonia test is unreliable
Urinary taurine test is unreliable
glutathione deficiency may be caused by SOD1/2/3 mutation.

Kurtosis, have you done any blood test on glutathione? I wonder if there is a way to directly measure it. Thanks!

I am rethinking what I have learned so far, A1298C mutation seems quite pronounced. VDR bsm and taq (++) seems to be not very rare in  general population.

What do you mean by "pronounced?"
If you're suggesting that more people should display signs of vitamin D deficiency then perhaps they do?
In Ireland where I live it's emerging that many people are vitamin D deficient. Particularly elderly people but they never associated that with bone weakness, fatigue or depression. http://www.ijms.ie/portals/_ijms/documents/op-506.pdf

I tested urinary ammonia and it was elevated. I haven't had glutathione tested. However, some supplementary glutathione appeared to reduce my acne dramatically. I have no idea why. It shouldn't work as there are 2 laboratory experiments showing poor absorption.

I saw B Daniel's glutathione tests and they appeared low but as far as I remember he doesn't have a CBS upregulation mutation. Yes Yasko appears obsessed with CBS but she's obsessed with it because she claims she keeps seeing it in autism patients she's treating. So either she's telling porkies or it's correlated with some other mutation or set of mutations that seems to co-occur with CBS. No idea. While the MIT.edu paper is interesting it doesn't really prove or disprove the validity of Yasko's treatment regime, it just points out that there are contradictions. If this was a maths paper, you could say it's "false" but it's a complicated chemical system with currently unknown variables so the unintended consequences (which may be beneficial) are unknowable.

There seem to be lots of contradictions in Yasko's work anyway. I've posted before about the RNA preparations which must degrade at room temperature and render themselves useless. I never worked my way through her patent on a mechanism to prevent degradation. I know there's quite some scientific skepticism about it
Quote
Yasko, A. Arrow , et al. (1993) Acid Stable End Blocked Nucleic Acids and Therapeutic Uses Thereof. US Patent

However, when a precise mechanism of interaction is unknown all experiments can do is prod around the edges and try to establish what may be happening. i.e. she could be wrong about ammonia but she may be spotting some connection between CBS or a concurrent mutation and acidity, leading to greater ammonia production.

Generally I try to think of pretty simple hypotheses and test them on myself with safe doses of vitamins. When I say safe I mean, well below doses that have been shown to be toxic but perhaps above the RDA.
Vitamin D supplementation appears to work. I took a multivitamin with methylfolate and methylcobalamin instead of the usual folic acid and cyanocobalamin. Added some adenosylcobalamin and vitamin D and life improved. In particular I felt more energy and less aches/pains. These were present most of the time and affected my ability to exercise, run, play sports etc. I didn't associate them with POIS until it seemed that my reaction to orgasm improved with my tolerance for exercise and my general mood.

From reading other posts, these symptoms appear correlated in other POIS sufferers. i.e. this thing just doesn't affect us at orgasm.

Anyway, just some thoughts :)
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17842 on: 02/03/2013 14:32:13 »
Who is currently moderating this forum?

no one: but it seems like the group does not want one, at least not an aggressive one.

I'm not the man for the job, but I think we should have a moderator who can perform their duties objectively and fairly.  I don't feel that all the posters know how to be objective and fair, and there should be oversight.  I want to talk about science and nakedscientist.com, and not things that are off that theme.

Is there someone who is interested in being a mod?  I'd help vouch for you if you are up for it!

There are overall moderators of NSF who are keeping an eye on us.
That's all I know.
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17843 on: 02/03/2013 14:33:30 »
Update on my status:

I agreed the Herman Copper toxicity theory and about to start the vitamins and minerals that he is suggested and consulted my doctor.  My doctor also quite impressed by his theory and he suggested me to undergone, Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.  He told that it is the most accurate test to determine imbalance in minerals in the body tissues.  I ordered this Test and gave my sample hair.  It will take around one month for the report in our area. 

I also advised each and every one to do this analysis before starting any vitamin & mineral supplements. 


Hi Nathan,
What country are you from?
 

Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17844 on: 02/03/2013 16:36:35 »
Romies
You have to be kidding me with Finasteride.   Effectively  blocked?   Finasteride is  POISON.   I have  people  who are trying to overcome the effects of that crap for years.  Stay away from that stuff/    Some  reports POIS symptoms from using  finasteride.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

A lot of people who used Finasteride are for male pattern baldness, and did not get tested for serum DHT level or did not have a particularly elevated DHT level. So for highly elevated serum DHT, finasteride is still an option.

About side effect, thank you for pointing out the large number of webpages about "Post-Finasteride Syndrome". We don't know yet how many percentage of the finasteride user is affected. and there is no PubMed papers on this topic at all. Hopefully there will be double-blind studies on this issue soon.
 

Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17845 on: 02/03/2013 16:59:04 »
What do you mean by "pronounced?"

My apologies for my sleep-deprivation-induced language-difficulty. I meant "produced"

If you're suggesting that more people should display signs of vitamin D deficiency then perhaps they do?
In Ireland where I live it's emerging that many people are vitamin D deficient. Particularly elderly people but they never associated that with bone weakness, fatigue or depression. http://www.ijms.ie/portals/_ijms/documents/op-506.pdf [nofollow]

I wanted to suggest that it may be useful to test serum Vd level more often. My own VD testing was done 1 year ago, before I discovered this forum and read your very insightful posts.

One reason for the blood testing is that there are several enzymes (liver and kidney) needed for converting oral Vd to its active form. 23andme has those raw data.

The sun exposure probably is a bigger contributor. So the hypothesis above may not apply to you.

I live in the southern US with ample sunlight year round. So personally I was surprised last year to find out I was Vd deficient.

Plus, we need more VD for our VDR mutations.

I tested urinary ammonia and it was elevated. I haven't had glutathione tested. However, some supplementary glutathione appeared to reduce my acne dramatically. I have no idea why. It shouldn't work as there are 2 laboratory experiments showing poor absorption.

I saw B Daniel's glutathione tests and they appeared low but as far as I remember he doesn't have a CBS upregulation mutation. Yes Yasko appears obsessed with CBS but she's obsessed with it because she claims she keeps seeing it in autism patients she's treating. So either she's telling porkies or it's correlated with some other mutation or set of mutations that seems to co-occur with CBS. No idea. While the MIT.edu paper is interesting it doesn't really prove or disprove the validity of Yasko's treatment regime, it just points out that there are contradictions. If this was a maths paper, you could say it's "false" but it's a complicated chemical system with currently unknown variables so the unintended consequences (which may be beneficial) are unknowable.

There seem to be lots of contradictions in Yasko's work anyway. I've posted before about the RNA preparations which must degrade at room temperature and render themselves useless. I never worked my way through her patent on a mechanism to prevent degradation. I know there's quite some scientific skepticism about it
Quote
Yasko, A. Arrow , et al. (1993) Acid Stable End Blocked Nucleic Acids and Therapeutic Uses Thereof. US Patent

However, when a precise mechanism of interaction is unknown all experiments can do is prod around the edges and try to establish what may be happening. i.e. she could be wrong about ammonia but she may be spotting some connection between CBS or a concurrent mutation and acidity, leading to greater ammonia production.

I am pretty skeptical about her RNA preparations as well. Not to sound like an narrow-minded referee :), this extracellular RNA is really unstable, in both GI tract and all body fluids, and is often packaged within vesicles. I don't think it is well understood yet, and her claims of using it in clinical setting is quite dubious.



Generally I try to think of pretty simple hypotheses and test them on myself with safe doses of vitamins. When I say safe I mean, well below doses that have been shown to be toxic but perhaps above the RDA.
Vitamin D supplementation appears to work. I took a multivitamin with methylfolate and methylcobalamin instead of the usual folic acid and cyanocobalamin. Added some adenosylcobalamin and vitamin D and life improved. In particular I felt more energy and less aches/pains. These were present most of the time and affected my ability to exercise, run, play sports etc. I didn't associate them with POIS until it seemed that my reaction to orgasm improved with my tolerance for exercise and my general mood.

Okay Q&A time here: :)

1. Mind sharing what kind of glutathione supplement do you take now?  GSH or N-acetylcysteine? and what brand? (I have quite a bit of acnes too when I take methyl-folate and methyl-cobalamin)

2. what brand of complex-B do you take now for adenosylcobalamin? I tried thorne extra-nutrients, but unfortunately it seems to have too much niacin and makes me feel far worse.

Thanks!


From reading other posts, these symptoms appear correlated in other POIS sufferers. i.e. this thing just doesn't affect us at orgasm.

Anyway, just some thoughts :)

 

Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17846 on: 02/03/2013 17:10:26 »
Anyway I'm curious and i'm trying right now the B6 for 5 days and add the zinc yesterday.

I'm high in prolactin, use to be low in testo(but apparently not reliable),high in cholesterol, my feritin is just in the middle of the range like cortisol,my copper serum is low(don't know if reliable) Niacin doesn't really work for me, I don't feel alergic when i'm in POIS, NSaids is the only thing that work for me and i'm not positive to skin ***** test.

Since you feel allergic and Niacin does not work for you, maybe Kurtosis regimen will work (methyl-guard, VC, ginkgo/blueberry extract)? see this link for details: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=468.0 [nofollow]

You can ask Kurtosis himself. The regimen has been evolving overtime.. my understanding is probably 45-deg out-of-phase with Kurtosis and need to catch up.  :)
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17847 on: 02/03/2013 17:37:28 »
N-acetylcysteine (NAC) but it's probably better if I PM you as I think forum rules forbid any discussion that looks like it's promotion of a commercial product.
 

Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17848 on: 03/03/2013 00:10:56 »
Anyway I'm curious and i'm trying right now the B6 for 5 days and add the zinc yesterday.

I'm high in prolactin, use to be low in testo(but apparently not reliable),high in cholesterol, my feritin is just in the middle of the range like cortisol,my copper serum is low(don't know if reliable) Niacin doesn't really work for me, I don't feel alergic when i'm in POIS, NSaids is the only thing that work for me and i'm not positive to skin ***** test.

Since you feel allergic and Niacin does not work for you, maybe Kurtosis regimen will work (methyl-guard, VC, ginkgo/blueberry extract)? see this link for details: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=468.0

You can ask Kurtosis himself. The regimen has been evolving overtime.. my understanding is probably 45-deg out-of-phase with Kurtosis and need to catch up.  :)


Thanks Romies but my regimen was based on doing some genetic testing and seeing what vitamins I might need more of. That's about it. I posted a lot about POIS being related to a combination of neurotransmitter levels changing rapidly and over release of histamine (itself a neurotransmitter) following an O. I still think this is probably the case and I think it was interesting that Nathan had such relief from sibelium / flunarizine.

However, I'm not a doctor and I can't treat anyone.

My regimen as such is
- a multivitamin with active b vitamins only. (only the "coenzymes" to bypass potential genetic mutations that could be affecting immune system performance or energy levels). As I explained the multivitamin can contain NAC or I can take extra NAC. NAC is not necessary all the time in my experience but really good if someone is having sleeping or breathing difficulties due to too much mucus.
- A fish oil with extra vitamin D.
- Blueberries and/or pterostilbene for inflammation reduction. I'd previously taken ginkgo but there were some side effects. I liked it thought and it might still be a good idea for some.
 

Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17849 on: 03/03/2013 05:59:14 »
Update on my status:

I agreed the Herman Copper toxicity theory and about to start the vitamins and minerals that he is suggested and consulted my doctor.  My doctor also quite impressed by his theory and he suggested me to undergone, Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.  He told that it is the most accurate test to determine imbalance in minerals in the body tissues.  I ordered this Test and gave my sample hair.  It will take around one month for the report in our area. 

I also advised each and every one to do this analysis before starting any vitamin & mineral supplements. 


Hi Nathan,
What country are you from?

From India. May I know the reason for asked.


 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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