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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6459020 times)

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18050 on: 10/04/2013 11:43:26 »
I there is hope,

I read a bit too quick ; sometimes we are looking for simple answers to complicated things...

Cognitive problem in coeliac are due to a decrease absorption in nutrients and vitamines ; diet and vits complements seems to help with POIS

I dont know about long term efficacity of Nsaids but we probably need to considers an inflamation either in the digestive system or directly in the brain.

B daniel, what do you mean by infection state ? Do you mean virus, bacteria, fungus ?
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18051 on: 10/04/2013 22:28:20 »
Daniel,

I am glad that you are realizing the stuff that I told you now.  POIS happens from loss of energy . It could be  in infection state or  inflmmation state.  In both states you  lose  energy and  your testosterone  production goes down.   
Basically if you are low on  zinc  or copper , you will  lose  energy   since  zinc and copper equals  electricity .

I might   have a solution for you people here. I dont know if anyone tried it .   Most of you here  have  bad metabolism and bad stomachs , bad  hormonal status.  So  instead of doing hormonal crap  and   going on extensive programs,  may be we can   cut it to the chase and bring  minerals to where they  are needed the most. 


How about   zinc copper   ring  on your balls or how else they call it.  I would imagine that would work  pretty good.  Since you will be getting zinc and copper and  electrical   charge that these too metals  create. 

I wish  someone tries that.  May be  when testosterone production  kicks in  , it will aleviate  all other problems. 
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18052 on: 10/04/2013 22:31:24 »
Since most  inflammation is caused from  testosterone dificiency really
 

Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18053 on: 11/04/2013 05:48:19 »
my testosteron level is normal
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18054 on: 11/04/2013 07:54:05 »
What is normal.  Give me numbers.  It should be in  upper range.   The range for testosterone  is for  15-80 years old.  So if you are in  low  quarter of the range, that means you are 60.)))
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18055 on: 11/04/2013 08:22:57 »
My labs:

Testosterone           8.80  [3-10.6]
Free Testosterone    23     [5.5-42]
SHBG                      36.6  [15-100]
17-beta-Estradiol     32,35  [<60]
Prolactin                  11,47  [<20]

So I don't think my problems come from sex-hormones imbalances.

Also, I've been supplementing zinc and copper for 2 years, in the last few months zinc 100mg and copper 5mg.
As to the B5, I have been taking 3*3g a day for 2 years.

My hormonal problem from a labs perspective is low adrenal function, which results in less than optimal salivar cortisol and low DHEA. And eventually low FT3/rT3 ratio.
My average temps are good now on T3, but they still fluctuate day by day, which is a sign of adrenal weakness.

I do suffer from recurring viral infections, but this doesn't rule out the possibility of inflammatory conditions, toxicity and malabsorption (I would say frequently one brings the other).
« Last Edit: 11/04/2013 12:59:37 by urano75 »
 

Offline Starsky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18056 on: 11/04/2013 08:42:33 »
Gboludev said that B5 speeds up the adrenals, so you could have problem of to fast adrenals so even you feed them it will be really fast burned. For me your supplementation must have a failure and for me its the large dose of B5 which speed up the adrenals and lowers the thyroid because its the inverse reaction. Read all Gboludev posts and you will see your problem.

Btw. Is it ok to have Testosterone in the high range and free testosterone in the low range?
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18057 on: 11/04/2013 09:28:39 »
Gboludev said that B5 speeds up the adrenals, so you could have problem of to fast adrenals so even you feed them it will be really fast burned. For me your supplementation must have a failure and for me its the large dose of B5 which speed up the adrenals and lowers the thyroid because its the inverse reaction. Read all Gboludev posts and you will see your problem.

Btw. Is it ok to have Testosterone in the high range and free testosterone in the low range?

B5 supports adrenals activity, that's it. I don't have high cortisol problems now.
I have no low thyroid function, just a conversion issue at tissue levels due to adrenal weakness.
Free testosterone is mid-range, which I don't see as a problem at age 38, being SHBG low. Ranges vary from lab to lab.
Reading some posts I see lots of assumptions, mainly.
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18058 on: 11/04/2013 09:33:13 »
Moreover, I personally know people with very low testo not having any POIS symptoms, while I've read of many here with normal testo, so that can't be *the* only explanation. Things are more complex than that.
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18059 on: 11/04/2013 09:33:49 »
I've had my testo et bio available testo 3 times ; My total testo was fine 2 times, low 1 times ; My bio available testo was 3 times very low(70yo person and i'm 29) ; I'm albumine and my SHBG was high 3 times(upper limit of the range).

I would not be amazed to find out that orgasm over consume bio available testo and that there is abnormal variation in testo/albumine/SHBG. The only way to find out is perform several blood tests over a certain period of times...research going on would maybe do that.

For me the testosterone chapter is not closed ; Looking at that for a sex related disease is not a bad idea and Demographix claims at least 6 persons have been cured with TRT
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18060 on: 11/04/2013 11:51:39 »
I've had my testo et bio available testo 3 times ; My total testo was fine 2 times, low 1 times ; My bio available testo was 3 times very low(70yo person and i'm 29) ; I'm albumine and my SHBG was high 3 times(upper limit of the range).

I would not be amazed to find out that orgasm over consume bio available testo and that there is abnormal variation in testo/albumine/SHBG. The only way to find out is perform several blood tests over a certain period of times...research going on would maybe do that.

For me the testosterone chapter is not closed ; Looking at that for a sex related disease is not a bad idea and Demographix claims at least 6 persons have been cured with TRT

It's definitively a good idea to look at sex hormones especially if your labs revealed them low. Also, each time we speak of hormones, we have to see how they actually work at cellular level, not just the serum values. And there aren't always reliable labs for that. Insulin, blood sugar, cortisol, thyroid hormones, testo, enzymes, vitamins and minerals interplay is kind of complex, just to name few relevant factors.
Some would like to isolate a couple of points and hope that working on them everything will be fixed. Possibly for someone. We're complex and all different, can't generalize.
There are people with low testo with no POIS.
There are 60 years old men with sexually active life and no POIS.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2013 12:19:18 by urano75 »
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18061 on: 11/04/2013 12:51:37 »
There is two possibility : either "we are all different" and we all have a specifics unknow disease with some similarities or we all have the same "syndrome" with specificities depending of persons ; I think define a disease is generalize ; doens't not mean there is no personal deviation is the disease.

Considering, there is no literature anywhere specking about cognitive difficulties related to sexual activities, I think we are in case two and we(most of us) may have the same problem, so the same kind of solution should be adressed.
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18062 on: 11/04/2013 13:18:00 »
Morover, as the symtoms are not constant I would not be amazed if blood dosage varies a lot ;

Only possibility know 100% : 15 dosages over 72 hours on 20 POIS person with the good markers targeted and compared with normal group person ; as neurotransmuitors in the brain are impossible to monitor, I would start with sex/orgasm hormones
« Last Edit: 11/04/2013 13:20:04 by LAPOISSE2 »
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18063 on: 11/04/2013 14:40:02 »
As we are speaking about testo values, you've seen my total testo is top range, while my free testo is about mid-range.
I've seen in past labs sometimes a slight lower (but good) total testo, and sometimes higher (up to 32) free testo, so clearly binding is a big variable.
I'd like to ideally keep my free testo higher.
My latest (and only test) of SHBG is on the low side, so I can't say that high SHBG is responsible for excessive binding. Albumin is also normal.

I have the following questions:

1- What's the difference, meaning and importance of total and free testo values? Some say that free testo is most important being the active form, others state that total testo is important as well. So what should we mainly be looking at?
2- Most of the usually given suggestions will aim to increase total testosterone, but not necessarily free testo. Do you know of any ways to decrease testo binding to transport proteins? I only know about nettle root extract, which is supposed to work on decreasing SHBG. I tried at consistent doses for a period and the effect was an increased libido, but not less POIS symptoms.
3- Are there other factors besides SHBG and albumin levels to control testo binding? Are there other transport proteins involved? Is it possible that, if transport proteins  are normal if not lowish (as in my case), other factors determine excessive binding?
4- Are there factors influencing (free) testosterone function at cellular level? E.g. I know that insulin resistance is sometimes correlated to testosterone resistance at cellular level, hence the importance of insuline/sugar control.  Are there other hormones which can potentiate or hinder testosterone activity at cellular level? E.g. do other steroid/thyroid hormones, or vit D, or omega3 play some important role in that?
5- Would testosterone replacement therapy be of any use if total testo level is already adequate but free testo not so?

Maybe I'm asking trivial questions for some, but I think that if an instructive discussion about testo has to be done then at least all these points need being considered.
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18064 on: 11/04/2013 15:11:31 »
You might find this free/bioavalaible testo calculator interesting:

http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

In my case, input values:

Total Testosterone           8.80 ng/ml
SHBG                             36.6 nmol/l
Albumin                          4.36g/dl

Output:

Free Testosterone          0.194 ng/mL  =  2.2 % (slightly smaller than my labs, after the due unit conversions)
Bioavailable Testo          4.61 ng/mL  =  52.4 %

These values don't look a problem to me, but let me know your values and your ranges.
 

Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18065 on: 11/04/2013 17:41:37 »
What is normal.  Give me numbers.  It should be in  upper range.   The range for testosterone  is for  15-80 years old.  So if you are in  low  quarter of the range, that means you are 60.)))
506 ng/dL    range 166 - 877
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18066 on: 11/04/2013 23:02:12 »
Urano,

I look at your numbers,  if you could   send me or post here the tests that I asked for It would be easier for me to help you ..  Since you told me that you were supplementing zinc and copper for 2 years, and B5. And you are complaining about weak adrenals at the tissue levels,  what do you mean by that/  Low sodium? because  adrenals dont produce enough aldosterone.  This way  you dont retain copper, and  during stress you miss that. 
In this case I would assume that you  might miss manganese,   which is also needed for acetylcholine  synthesis.

You  guys are  right that everyone is different and POIS symptoms are different/  When I had POIS and I was   changing my  body chemistry I  would get different POISes all the time.   In one  chemistry I would get  stuffy noses,  itchy eyes,   in another chemistry  I would get   pressure in my head.  SO it changed.   
Testosterone plays the part in inflammation, and  most POIS sufferers are  low on it.  Also border anemic  situation is  what plays huge part also.     Balance  adrenals and thyroid against  each other, which will balance  sodium pottasium in your cell.  That is the answer .

Look at   horse owners,  how do they  balance their horses?    Take a guess,     iron  zinc copper manganese  balance.   
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18067 on: 11/04/2013 23:05:46 »
Urano,

it is also not about  supplementing something for 2 years, it is about  the ratio  you  supplement especially for your body chemistry.   If you can tell me what you are supplementing now, that would be helpful also. and  what  POIS symptoms   you are getting.     And what are you doing for  test levels, obviously  they are  corrected by you.
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18068 on: 11/04/2013 23:39:33 »
Gbolduev,

my history: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.18418

my regimen: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.18442

with some little recent changes (methylfolate 3x1g, methylcobalamine 3x1g).

When I say I can't properly convert/use thyroid hormones at tissue level, I mean that my thyroid produces adequate amounts of T4 now (not 2 years ago), but too much of it gets converted to rT3 instead of T3, and eventually the FT3/rT3 ratio is too low, which creates thyroid hormone resistance at cellular level.

This is a thyroid panel before starting T3:

FT3= 5.45 p mol/l         [2.3-6.3]
FT4= 17.60 p mol/l         [10.6-19.4]
TSH= 1.81         [0.40-4.0]
rT3= 36.00 ng/dl = 360 pg/ml   *[20-50]   
FT3/rT3=9.86         *[>20]

rT3 overconversion (or T3 "pooling", or T3 resistance) is said to be caused by different factors, the most common of which are adrenal issues (low cortisol, high cortisol, mix of low-high cortisol) and iron deficiency. Folic/B12 and blood sugar issues are also said to affect thyroid hormone function.

Low temps point to underactive thyroid, unstable temps to adrenal dysfunction. Before starting T3 I had both low and unstable temps. Now I only have fluctuating temps (PM peaks 36.7C-37.2C).

My adrenal fatigue has much improved  with 2 years of adrenal support and 5 months of T3, but adrenals not totally fixed yet.
Insufficient sleep, overexercise, excessive sun exposure, sex are still triggers for adrenal downs (fatigue, muscular/joints weakness/pains).
It's very likely I get viral infections after sex. I've been told one of the problems is recurring CMV infections.
Fluctuating average body temperatures from day by day still point to adrenal weakness. The circadian T3 method I'm following is a relatively new methods supposed to help adrenals recovery their activity, without suppressing them with HC/Isocort/DHEA. And to balance the rT3 dominance out.
I'm also taking zeolite to help chelating metals.

I've been now abstaining for 3 weeks and feel better (no infections), but I still have some adrenal lows (temp drops, fatigue) e.g. after a late night.

Unfortunately my adrenals have been under stress for several reasons for 20-30 years, so even if I'm doing the right things now I'm afraid it takes time to recover.

All supplements are kinesiologically tested by my doctor. I'm currently on 100mg zinc and 5mg copper per day. zinc dose is higher than average but, he says, I always tested low when I took 50mg, so I doubled. He says I don't test low in manganese/copper. My iron is mainly OK. It's likely that I have had and possibly still have absorption issues. I use digestive enzymes, betaine HCL and ACV to help with that. I'm underweight (58Kg vs 1.81m). Actually I've been losing weight after a surgery last summer (bone tumor), months before starting T3.

Not sure what labs you want to see exactly, last ones are 3 months ago, that was 2 month after starting T3. Sodium/potassium were OK, aldosterone was mid-range, so probably suboptimal. I suffer of postural hypotension, but now it's improved.

Cortisol                                195ng/ml                            [40-225]
DHEA-S                                192mcg/ml         [125-483] for men of age 30-39
Aldosterone (sitting)     172pg/ml                            [35-300]
Renin (sitting)                   71,50pg/ml         ??? (I couldn't find reliable range values for orthostatic renin)
Sodium                       147 [135-155]
Potassium                    4.1 [3.5-5.0]

SHGB      36.6nmol/l   [15-100]
Progesterone   1.23ng/ml   [0.11-1]*
Testosterone   8.80ng/ml   [3.0-10.6]
Testosterone Free   23.00pg/ml   [5.5-42]
17-beta-estradiol   32.35      [<62]
Prolactin      11,47      [<25]

Serum Iron      120   [50-175]
TIBC         326   [250-500]
Transferrin Saturation %   37%   [20-50]
Ferritin         240   [25-380]

Sugar      91   [70-105]
Insulin      3.4   [2-25]
Hgb AC1      5.0%   [4.3-6.3]

No point in showing thyroid labs while on T3.

Currently having an issue of hypercalcemia, I need to determine if that depends on T3 (eg calcitonin suppression) or excess vit D. I've decreased D to understand it next labs:

Parathormone   3,3pg/ml      *[12-72]
Calcium      10,80      *[8.6-10.7]
Phosphorus   4.70      [2.5-5.0]
Vit D3      85      [50-100]

Salivar tests:

Cortisol:
wake-up        at 8:30AM, as everyday
9AM...                 18.6nM        [12-22nM]    a bit low    should be top range:22nM
12:30PM...        6.5nM        [5-9nM]            a bit low    should be upper quarter: 8-9nM
5PM...                 3.8nM        [3-7nM]          a bit low    should be mid range: about 5nM
11:30PM...        0.9nM        [1-3nM]             OK   should be bottom range: about 1nM

DHEA AM: 0.22nM [0.40-1.47] low
DHEA PM: 0.19nM [0.40-1.47] low

But I was supplememting some DHEA few weeks before, that might have been a suppression effect.

I hope you have some information to get an overall picture.
I'm happy with docs following me (although impatient to solve long-term issues), but don't mind to get new ideas, if reasonably explained and documented.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: 12/04/2013 10:24:31 by urano75 »
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18069 on: 12/04/2013 19:02:13 »
Urano,

I read  your case, and looked thru your results.   Also I look at what you are taking.   Looking at the latest ones, it looks like you are doing too much  т3.  But that is not the main  issue of my concern.  You are taking so much  crap it is not even funny.   Main goal for  supplementing stuff is to  have perfect  sodium pottasium  ratio in the  cell.  I am not sure that is the case with you at  all.   I  dont know how you will be able to keep balance with  all this stuff.

I think the best  thing to do  for you  would be to  figure out your metabolism right now.  Get tested for it, and  then you  can cut out a lof  of stuff that you are taking.   It is hard for me to tell , what is the pull in your case, since you are  taking so much stuff.  Also  I would   be careful  ommiting manganese  out of all this,  since it is needed for dopamine and acetylcholine.

I was the one who mentioned  RT3 on this forum and that it could be a problem for people,  but then   we did many tests and it looks  like RT3 is proactive not stable. So that  went off my table.

I think you should  do the hairtest.  All this blood work is just guessing in your case/

 You can  e-mail me if you want , I might  suggest you where to get it done, if you did not do it yet.
Gbolduev@mail.ru

 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18070 on: 12/04/2013 19:06:30 »
Urano,

I am 100% sure you need manganese.  Your adrenals wont  get stable without it.  Yes you are supporting them with Bs C   B5 and other stuff, but manganese  is vital for them and for pancreas
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18071 on: 12/04/2013 19:09:43 »
Plus if you overshoot with T3 lets say ,  then your  pottasium will be  higher then sodium  in the cell  meaning  cortisol will be  higher on the  immune response  than  aldosterone. /  Your immune system will get screwed.   Both high  sodium potassium and  low sodium  potassium will lead to loss of energy.
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18072 on: 12/04/2013 23:43:20 »
Gbolduev,
thanks for taking your time for looking at my case.

I have few questions for you, if you don't mind:

1- How do you see from my blood work that I'm taking too much T3?
2- Is the serum sodium/potassium OK as I think to be, and does it somehow reflect the sodium/potassium in the cells?
3- How can one understand if intracellular sodium/potassium is optimal, are there direct (unlikely) or indirect (likely) lab tests for that?
4- How should I "test my metabolism" exactly, apart from taking temps, heart rate and blood pressure measurements multiple times a day as I'm doing since I'm on T3 for dose tuning?
5- Can you explain a bit more why you think that rT3 is not "stable" or meaningful? Isn't it tru that rtú make T3 receptors unavailable at cellular level? Is it OK to have consistently low FT3/rT3 ratios in labs?
6- Do you think that my cortisol/aldosterone ratio is too high? Does that apparently high renin level say anything to you? Most say that blood cortisol is not a very meaningful test, and a salivar cortisol profile is far more accurate, do you agree?
7- I will include some manganese, how much do you suggest to take with 100mg zinc and 5mg copper?

I know I'm taking lots of stuff (not sure about "crap") and probably more than necessary, however all this work in the last 2 years has helped me recover so far, and I'm far better than I have been for decades. Understanding what's needed and what's not isn't an easy process. And you're right, it's not easy to manage it all. But for every thing that I take there's a history or a reason behind, so before giving up things I must have a good reason too.

Never done a hair test before, never looked for it here in Italy. I could do it sooner or later.

Thanks again.

« Last Edit: 13/04/2013 08:18:14 by urano75 »
 

Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18073 on: 13/04/2013 09:37:39 »
Quote
4- Are there factors influencing (free) testosterone function at cellular level? E.g. I know that insulin resistance is sometimes correlated to testosterone resistance at cellular level, hence the importance of insuline/sugar control.  Are there other hormones which can potentiate or hinder testosterone activity at cellular level? E.g. do other steroid/thyroid hormones, or vit D, or omega3 play some important role in that?

As I said a lot of times, the sugar controle play a major role in my Pois. I often supposed high glycemic food may increase inflammation reaction supposed in semen allergy theory.
 But there is something else :

There is scientific and evident link between insuline and dopamine (eng or fr ) . Some guys here have taken ritaline, dopaminergic med.

What do you mean exactly: are you insulin resistant,  insulin deficient or hypoglycemic? In other words, did you have impaired glucose tolerance (prediabetes diabetes type-II), diabetes type-I, or reactive hypoglycemia (possibly related to insufficient cortisol)? Did you manage that from a dietary perspective with good results? Do you relate it to testosterone activity specifically?

The article you quote points to neurotransmission problems with insufficient insulin (type-I), but it's likely that problems occur when insulin resistance is present (type-II) and it can't be properly effective at cellular level. Insulin/leptin resistance is said to be one of the main causes of inflammation. As well the excessive consumption of fructose, industrial omega-6 PUFAs, and possibly gluten.

Personally, I pay attention to keep blood sugar under control after a meal, eat moderate amount of complex carbs and limit high-glycemic/simple sugars. On the other hand, I've been thru month of strictly carbs-restricted diet, no starches and grain, with no particular benefit and some frustration. I had some mild reactive hypoglycemia related to low cortisol, and it showed up more evident after sex.

Sorry, I joined the group just a couple of months ago, tied to catch up with recent topics but miss years of discussions :-)
 

Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18074 on: 13/04/2013 12:40:32 »
Urano,

1.  Your progesterone is high , meaning high cortisol, meaning high  pottasium in the cell.  Your ferritin  is  highish , meaning  copper could be deficient relatively.  Renin is high.  Caclium problem.  I did not see the  tests pre T3,  but  it looks like too much T3 to me for the reasons I mentioned.
2. Your sodium is high ,  normal is 140,  and definetly  not  147 or 155,  But serum is not  that reliable,  147 sodium is telling me that you are stressed,  4.1  pottasium is of  no use, since  pottasium is inside of the cell,   high progesterone  is telling me that  you have  high  pottasium in the cell and  probably high thyroid effect at the moment.

3.The most  precise way to see soidum pottasium is  in hair.   Write me an e-mail, I will hook you up,    hair testing in italy wont do,  I am in Cyprus and I send mine to  the US.
4. I use NES machine to test my  metabolism weekly.  You might look into that, and  if you have any questions on how to  use it I will  gladly answer those. I use temperature  charts also and blood pressure.
5.  RT3 is reactive and to me  it changes with the other changes.   I found that when cortisol falls  , it changes,  It changes with  adrenals and  bioavailability of iron.  It is ok to use it to  look at Thyroid on cellular level , if you dont have hair test. which is   precise.
6.I think  now your cortisol./aldosterone is high  might be  because of T3.  To me the only  correct way to  test  is hair test  Saliva might be ok. 
7. Well  to me it looks like  your sodium potassium  ratio is low and you are  retaining zinc  right now,   So  RDA for manganese is  2 , but I would take 4 at least.  Also  note , that  if you have weak adrenals   overshooting on  thyroid supplements  makes then  weaker.     If adrenals are weaker than  thyroid,  the proper  ratio is    maganese 30   mg a day , zinc 50 copper 3
So you see if you  use the minerals in  a different ratios let say , it would do completely different things, and it does not matter if you are taking them or not.  They are not balanced togethter and worthless.

Trust me, do the hair test ASAP, and you will see exactly where you are and what you need to take .  And actually if you are  taking  these supplements routinely  , that  would be great for you to see  how they afffect you  so you  can   easily  correct the dosages or the ratios and  put your metabolism right in the middle where the energy is maximum and  the body can start  healing itself.


Good luck/
Herman
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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