The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6455374 times)

Offline Prancer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18425 on: 05/07/2013 07:53:18 »
So B_Daniel, how/when did you first get your POIS symptoms? I think you said you've had POIS since puberty, but how did it come, suddenly, gradual and did something trigger it? Thanks, and sorry if you already talked about that somewhere.
 

Offline acronym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18426 on: 05/07/2013 09:01:56 »
Losing weight is catabolism 100% ,   most likely  low sodium potassium ratio .   
Absolutely I am in a catabolic state for a number of days (say 5) after an O, but I don't know why as and while my doctor acknowledged it, it is hard to get any medical support. (if I wanted to lose weight, yeah no problems the medical system will bend over to provide). I cant remember what test I had but it showed low protein levels (I eat well) + also low IGF + low DHEA. TRT did not make much difference even with my T levels at top of the range, but what did help improve my POIS and general well being is Deca (no shock given its an anabolic) Some guys who had problems somewhat like POIS after taking Proscar/finasteride also had recovery after taking Deca. I have also read where HIV patients thrive better on the equivalent dose of Deca than they do on Testosterone.

I am really intrigued on your Na/K theory.  I had hair test done and I did not show low on either of these. I had quite high titanium but that was the only high metal.
Na/K ratio was fine.
Na/Mg was very low (I have taken Mg supp for years)
Fe/Cu was on low side (I have always felt better taking Fe supps)
Ca/K was 85 (normal is 2.1-6.0)  (I take Ca supp but don't overdo it. The report said Ca/K suggest low thyroid. Doc did thyroid tests and they came back fine. If anything I thought I would have over active thyroid due to underweight & anxiousness. It also said it can be indicative of Cu imbalance (but did not say too high or too low). I have been cautiously taking low dose Cu supps for the past 4 months after reading your posts but cant say I notice anything. Iodine did not show up on my hair testy and my doc put me on Iodine tincture. This also fits in with hypothyroidism but it didn't change my world. I actually felt worse for a number of months after starting it, but it settled down. I take a drop (ammodine) every few days simply because it was not in my hair, but I don't think its doing much.

I have been taking Potassium Chloride salt instead of Sodium Chloride salt this year with my meals (not for physical effect but for the brain fog benefits K provides. I was taking Licorice extract for adreanals and it was good for me, but it also lowers potassium and I was finding it very hard to mentally motivate myself and remember taking potassium in the past when I was studying. It has helped though its no wonder supplement.
So with "low soidum potassium ratio" it seems I should up the K more?
Is KCl good as any K supplement? (not easy to get in my country because of heart risks)
« Last Edit: 05/07/2013 11:32:46 by acronym »
 

Offline urano75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18427 on: 05/07/2013 13:30:53 »
For me catabolism, infections, POIS and possibly low libido seem to go hand in hand.
I've lost weight in the last year, going from skinny to super-skinny.
The potential causes I see for it were an important surgery, an unbalanced zinc supplementation (100mg or more), and last in time but not least the use of thryoid hormones (T3).
Hair test in May confirmed low Na/K.
I also constantly had low DHEA (blood and salivar) as well as apparently high progesterone.

Then I cut zinc to half (50mg), introduced manganese (30mg) and copper (5mg), and eventually weaned off T3 and pregnenolone.
My infections (which plagued me for years) stopped, and I'm finally gaining weight and muscular mass, which indicates I've shifted from catabolic to anabolic.
POIS is lighter and shorter, and libido has increased, as well as general energy level.
I can't prove it, but I feel that my Na/K might have increased at this point.
Anyway, what counts is that I'm on the right direction.

P.S.: It is said that most labs doing hairtest wash their samples, making the electrolytes levels (Na, K, Ca, Mg) mainly unreliable.
 

Offline fornicationDENIED2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18428 on: 05/07/2013 13:51:42 »
I had another POIS free ejaculation, yet I can no longer sleep without drug aid and my libido is now out of control, to be honest my 2 ejaculations this week were not intentional, thinking about secks briefly makes me loose control. I think cortisol and testosterone production kicked in. I am not sure what has changed, I will do some blood tests soon but for now it seems I am free at last.
 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18429 on: 05/07/2013 20:56:28 »
Denied,

I think  you  just  suppressed acetylcholine  with less manganese and  testosterone  precursors,  which  increased your  progesterone.  This was expected in your case.

It is all about NA/K ratio.

Good luck,
Herman
 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18430 on: 05/07/2013 21:06:27 »
Acronym,

With Ca/k= 86  you are taking   copper?    You are killing yourself.    You should have been taking zinc not copper.  If you want you can send me your hairtest , I am not sure how accurate it is.    Your thyroid is fine may be as an organ and  may be  it makes sufficient  hormones, but on the cellular level  it does crap, may be because of your progesterone level, which  probably equals zero.   you must have high acetylcholine, I would assume.
 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18431 on: 05/07/2013 21:12:16 »
Acronym,
if you  felt worse on iodine means your adrenals and thyroid are low together/

YOu need to take manganese 30 mg  zinc 50 mg and copper  5 mg
B complex, 50 mg 3 times a day
iodine 2 mg
C 500 a day
malic acid with manganesium 2000
 

Offline acronym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18432 on: 06/07/2013 00:58:30 »
Acronym,

With Ca/k= 86  you are taking   copper?    You are killing yourself.    You should have been taking zinc not copper.  If you want you can send me your hairtest , I am not sure how accurate it is.    Your thyroid is fine may be as an organ and  may be  it makes sufficient  hormones, but on the cellular level  it does crap, may be because of your progesterone level, which  probably equals zero.   you must have high acetylcholine, I would assume.

GD, I have been taking zinc off and on over the years after reading about and thought it would be a good supplement to take since I was underweight and had low testosterone symptoms. In the past 3 yrs I have been on a fairly high dose as part of pyroluria treatment. After reading some of your posts and reading up more on Cu I thought I would add a little into my regime and see what effect it has plus I also thought with high dose Zn I don't want to get out of balance.
It is quite possible my thyroid function is not ideal, but once you get okay blood work back its end of story as far as the doctor goes. If anything I thought I was hyperthyroid. I'm not sure if I have had progesterone levels checked. Many doctors don't think its a big deal. Taking Deca really boosts progesterone, so this might be a big factor why I feel so good on it (physically + mentally).
As for acetylcholine, when I was younger I suspect I could easily have had too high levels (I was anxious, hyper vigilant, self conscious, unable to relax), but my health crashed 7 yrs back and I feel burnout now, so I could easily have been. I did the Dr Eric Braveman 'the edge effect' transmittor test, and I showed up very low on Ach and dopamine. I am taking Tyrosine/Choline/acetyle carnitine, which I think helps a little. A prior doctor told me I was low in Ach and had me on Mestinon, which I though helped a little but only when I went higher dose, and new doctor wont go for it. He thinks correcting pyroluria will set my neurotransmitters right. I have been quite disappointed in that treatment (still have many symptoms on the list)

I thought I felt worse on Iodine because I was now stirring things up metabolically speaking. I had also started Vit D at same time (I was very low) though. I have been on adreanal herbs for a number of years and they have definitely helped, and I don't think my adreanals are a problem anymore, but I think I had burnout 3 years back and had to cut down my work as I was continually exhausted (my life was work/rest/sleep)
I am on most days -> 20mg Mn + 1000+mg Vit C, Cu 1mg, 1500ug I, 200mg Mg. Thanks for your responses.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2013 01:00:32 by acronym »
 

Offline urano75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18433 on: 06/07/2013 08:04:58 »

It is quite possible my thyroid function is not ideal, but once you get okay blood work back its end of story as far as the doctor goes. If anything I thought I was hyperthyroid.


One way to assess your thyroid/adrenal function is to take your oral temperatures everyday, at least at wake-up and 3-4PM. Even better also noon and 6PM, then average out the daytime ones. If they're low/high you are likely on the hypo/hyper side, if their average fluctuates more than 0.1-0.2C from day to day you have likely weak adrenals.
Also, being your blood thyroid hormones in the range might not say it all, FT4 and FT3 are generally considered optimal upper quarter of the range, TSH about 1-1.5, and you have to check you are not overconverting T4 to rT3. It's also a good idea to check the antibodies from time to time, especially while on iodine.
Even if your blood hormones are OK, you might have other factors limiting your thyroid function, such as iron metabolism, adrenal function (e.g. cortisol), B-vitamins (B12, folate or thiamin) to name few.
A reliable hairtest (ARL) can complete the picture.
Low dopamine symptoms can indicate low adrenal function too. Postural hypotension would be a sign of that also.
 

Offline shen mue

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18434 on: 06/07/2013 22:39:20 »
Same as Kurtosis, I dont  think anyone has myasthenia gravis here at the clinical form of it.   And also I think we are talking only about one case  of POIS here,   with low acetylcholine and low DHT. 
One time I was taking  too much zinc, and   my progesterone  went way up  and my DHT  went way down. 
My estrogen was  down my dht was down , and my progesterone up. 

So at the same  time I was thinking and experimenting with acetylcholine ,  myastenia gravis  manganese  and acetylcholine connection with  DHT.
I took 2 pills of saw palmetto,  in 15 minutes I had POIS without even  sex.   
So I poisoned myself on purpose .AHAHA   Since saw palmetto  lowered my low DHT

then I took 50 mg of manganese.  POIS was gone  within 1 hour completely

I am wondering  how many people got POIS from  Finasterid.
Since in  low DHT layout , that is exactly what  that is


I dont recommend anyone  screwing with your neurotransmitters,   niacin  raises  acetylcholine , lowers thyroid hormones and progesterone.
You need to get balanced,  only  that way  you can help yourself...You need to chelate  free copper, since that interferes with  manganese and zinc.

To do all that, you need to lock your metabolism  in the middle,  it is very hard to do.   Since no matter what you are taking   you will go from  side to side, and you will get POIS in both sides.

I'm 99 percent sure Finasterid was a factor leading to POIS for me. the post finasterid syndrome people actually have some symptoms similar to POIS...
 

Offline Kima

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18435 on: 07/07/2013 08:18:14 »
 

Offline Jonas STHLM

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18436 on: 07/07/2013 09:41:07 »
Has anyone here suffering from pois, made a brain scan?
 

johanstefansson

  • Guest
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18437 on: 07/07/2013 10:01:56 »
Do we have a winner here! ?

From
http://drlwilson.com/articles/TOXIC%20METALS.htm
http://drlwilson.com/articles/CADMIUM.htm
http://toxipedia.org/plugins/servlet/mobile#content/view/2818958
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/cadmium/

Cadmium is called the pseudo-macho or the violent element.  Like lead, it is an older male mineral that is associated with macho behavior, violence and horror.  People who have orgasms more than once a week tend to accumulate cadmium, probably because it replaces zinc in the male testicles and even in women’s ovaries.  Male and female sexual fluids are rich in zinc, and when one loses too much of these, cadmium from the environment seems to replace the zinc in the body.

Acute exposure to cadmium fumes may cause flu like symptoms including chills, fever, and muscle ache sometimes referred to as "the cadmium blues." Symptoms may resolve after a week if there is no respiratory damage. More severe exposures can cause tracheo-bronchitis, pneumonitis, and pulmonary edema. Symptoms of inflammation may start hours after the exposure and include cough, dryness and irritation of the nose and throat, headache, dizziness, weakness, fever, chills, and chest pain.

A powerful crutch for the kidneys and adrenal glands.  Cadmium also powerfully irritates and in this way boosts adrenal activity, although it does this in a rather violent way, not a healthful manner.

Symptoms of cadmium exposure are increased loss of small proteins in the urine, salivation, choking, vomiting, metallic taste, loss of sense of smell, joint pain and others (Longe, 2005).

There is no known mechanism, but it is thought that the fact that cadmium's 2+ oxidation state helps disguise it as calcium or zinc inside the body (Sutoo et al., 1990).
Excessive cadmium shows as lack of calcium.

Cadmium and its compounds are highly toxic and exposure to this metal is known to cause cancer and targets the body’s cardiovascular, renal, gastrointestinal, neurological, reproductive, and respiratory systems.

This makes a lot of sense.  The cadium buildup effecting the adrenal glands describes a lot of the symptoms we feel.  The problem is how do we reduce the cadium replacing zinc.  Would taking some kind of zinc supplement before and after ejaculation help with it?

I do believe that taking a high dose of zinc before sex could reduce the risk of cadmium poisoning. However getting rid of cadmium in body takes, as I read it, up to 10 years  :-\
It could explain why castration solves the illness as cadmium gets stored in the testicles.
Maybe what nathan found was a chemical that pulled cadmium out of the body or increased zinc uptake?

I guess one needs to be super consistent with taking zinc supplements over a number of years to treat this illness.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2013 10:40:03 by johanstefansson »
 

Offline gondal4

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18438 on: 07/07/2013 11:13:42 »
Has anyone here suffering from pois, made a brain scan?
Yes mine was normal
 

Offline gondal4

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18439 on: 07/07/2013 11:14:34 »
Anyone else started to lose hair soon after POIS first started?
 

johanstefansson

  • Guest
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18440 on: 07/07/2013 14:37:40 »
Anyone else started to lose hair soon after POIS first started?

I have dandruff, no loss of hair. Eating oily food helps.
 

Offline GDRTW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
POIS & EMS
« Reply #18441 on: 08/07/2013 16:05:41 »
In response to RD and Vincent M. If anybody is interested in the effects of EMS then instead they should go ahead and watch this recent documentary which spells it out very well. Explains in layman's terms without us needing to be a top notch physics scientist.


There a lots of studies pointing to magnetic waves and it's ability to reek havoc on our immune system and alter our body make up. And RD it IS real. Trust me. I am a well rounded person and am not one to make silly assumptions about things before thorough research. At the time it started around 20 years ago, it was just so unheard of but as scientists and physicians conducted their own independent studies so the evidence research online became more prevalent. The 'official' controlled experiments were funded by the power companies themselves and were fraught with inaccurate and flawing techniques to distinguish sensitivities as it can be a slow gradual thing. it's not like someone automatically feels pain and discomfort from flicking the switch of something electrical. Are you also saying that POIS is not real as well? There are always going to be people trying work out the mysteries of the strange type. Aren't there skeptics out there trying to dispel the whole man on the moon landing? Do any of us really believe that? I guess it is hard for some people to comprehend something that is just so foreign or hard to grab the nature of. It affects different people in different ways as does POIS. It is also very difficult to explain to anybody who doesn't actually have it themselves ala POIS. My discomfort come from a few different things, cellphones (there should be no debate about whether or not cellphones can be harmful. They just are), Hifi speakers headphones and backs of TV's/computer where intensity of waves seem to be more prevalent. Thank god for the invent of LCD TVs/screens. Like anything some people are just going to be predisposed to it more than others. Anyway this forum is for POIS so I will leave it at that. Watch the documentary for a full insight into what some are calling the health scare of the future.
So Vincent, you don't have EMS and count yourself lucky. :)
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18442 on: 08/07/2013 16:49:48 »
http://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/potential-root-cause-of-depression-discovered-by-narsad-grantee

Interesting theory...I really need to give a try to antichollinergic
 

Offline nathan123

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18443 on: 08/07/2013 17:01:06 »
HI,

I contacted my doctor and within one week he would come to this forum and would interact with all. 
 

Offline LAPOISSE2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18444 on: 08/07/2013 17:05:41 »
HI,

I contacted my doctor and within one week he would come to this forum and would interact with all.

That's a great news Nathan ; Thanks a lot
 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18445 on: 08/07/2013 22:08:24 »
Low thyroid =high acetylcholine,   high thyroid= low acetylcholine.   It is all about NA/K no matter how you twist it.)))

Nathan  for instance , low thyroid weight gain , high acetylcholine.  would benefit from  lowering acetylcholine, increasing thyroid,  decreasing cortisol.
Myself had  high thyroid  low acetylcholine. woulld benefit from  increasing acetylcholine.
So  these stupid studies are amazing about serotonin and  acetylcholine .  It is never  one solution for everyone,  it is so stupid to think that ,   depression is caused    in both causes,  in one with low acetylcholine and low DHT and estrogen . In another  case with high acetylcholine, low dopamine., and testosterone.

Thanks Nathan for asking your doctor  to come here, I think it would be good.  I hope he has a solution  besides the  aureverdic stuff.
 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18446 on: 08/07/2013 22:21:06 »
Estrogen   increases   levels of acetylcholine,   estrogen is  increased by NA.
Progesterone decreases levels of acetylchoine,  progesterone is  increased by K.
NA/K is the main  thing in  everything,  hairloss,  depression,  EVERYTHING   , even death.

Nathan, had high estrogen ,  on his blood work.   High estrogen high acetylcholine. I am not sure how he suppresed acetylcholine.   Vitamin C would make sense in this case,  since  it will lower copper.

 

Offline Gbolduev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18447 on: 08/07/2013 22:25:32 »
SO basically it  all comes to   copper  zinc  manganese iron  , and mostly  to  copper zinc  ratio.  As I stated from the minute I posted here.
 

Offline B_Daniel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18448 on: 09/07/2013 06:32:22 »
HI,

I contacted my doctor and within one week he would come to this forum and would interact with all. 

Wow Nathan, really great of you to facilitate this and equally good of him to agree to come and share his thoughts.  I'm looking forward to hearing his rationale and asking some questions
 

Offline Over it

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18449 on: 09/07/2013 12:57:00 »
Below is a link to a book published over 100 years ago written about nervous exhaustion, it's causes, how it presents, and alleged successful treatment methods. Some cases of whats described as nervous exhaustion sound a lot like pois.       
http://archive.org/details/apracticaltreat03beargoog [nofollow]
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18449 on: 09/07/2013 12:57:00 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length