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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6447810 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1925 on: 09/11/2008 20:53:40 »
...Everyone on this forum is doing a great job in chasing this illness down.

Thanks, mellivora, and great to see you back!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1926 on: 09/11/2008 21:08:00 »

As POIS is hard to describe, evaluating it's intensity is equally difficult. 50%, 75% are very rough approximations.


Good point, John. I felt the same way when I saw someone report 65%.

Quote from: John21

I can confidently say I have never had physical exhaustion symptoms, but don't anyone think I got off easy, perhaps my mental exhaustion was all the more severe.  >:(


I have a hard time distinguishing my mental exhaustion from my physical!

Quote from: John21

I had an NE four days ago and I had zero symptoms again...


Congratulations!! John, do you recall ever having zero symptoms in the past when you weren't experimenting?
« Last Edit: 09/11/2008 21:12:32 by demografx »
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1927 on: 09/11/2008 22:00:13 »
Demografx, yes there have been other times with zero symptoms later on in my life but over the course of my life I was normally symptomatic following any NE. For a certain period I had no symptoms and thought it was due to avoiding milk products that was helping me, but that turned out to be false so it must have been something else. Garlic is one possibility, vitamin D is another. Right now I am boggled yet optimistic. Perhaps soon I will simplify my supplementation to and see if symptoms return, at which point I'll start experimenting with some of these things individually. I will stay with regular garlic/D/yogurt with inulin/ and finish off the Bacopa bottle. If I continue to be without symptoms perhaps I will drop down to garlic+D.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1928 on: 09/11/2008 22:07:25 »
John, I think everybody has a physical limit. It's possible to find this limit (with and without pois) by doing a long physical exercise. I'm not trying to push that you're physically exhausted in pois. I believe you when you say you're not. I was just trying to put light on our symptoms, to see if at least there is a variation for everybody in our physical energy during pois.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1929 on: 09/11/2008 22:26:57 »
Martin, there has been no noticeable change in physical energy for me in POIS. Perhaps there might be a measurable difference if somehow my physical endurance was tested in POIS, but in my opinion it would be due to the fact that I wouldn't feel like expending energy due to the mental turmoil.

For all of you who are experimenting I suggest a POIS diary if you are not already doing so. When there are so many possible contributing factors and variable symptoms it is nice to be able to flip back and see where you have been. Of course this site serves the purpose somewhat, but a personal point-form version could be more detailed. I used to keep one years ago, I think I'll start one up again now that I am having some success.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1930 on: 09/11/2008 22:43:10 »
Demografx, yes there have been other times with zero symptoms later on in my life but over the course of my life I was normally symptomatic following any NE. For a certain period I had no symptoms and thought it was due to avoiding milk products that was helping me, but that turned out to be false so it must have been something else. Garlic is one possibility, vitamin D is another. Right now I am boggled yet optimistic. Perhaps soon I will simplify my supplementation to and see if symptoms return, at which point I'll start experimenting with some of these things individually. I will stay with regular garlic/D/yogurt with inulin/ and finish off the Bacopa bottle. If I continue to be without symptoms perhaps I will drop down to garlic+D.

John, while you're at it, can you try something tastier? Say, ice cream? ;D

Kidding aside, this testing business is tricky!
« Last Edit: 09/11/2008 22:45:46 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1931 on: 09/11/2008 22:56:54 »
Garlic and cortisol: similar to Relora?

"Recent research has shown that garlic along with a high-casein diet altered the bodys hormonal status, yielding lower levels of stress hormones such as cortisol. Other studies have shown that garlic may help increase testosterone levels. In general, the higher your testosterone levels, the lower your cortisol levels."

From http://www.flexonline.com.au/350.html
emphasis above is mine.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1932 on: 10/11/2008 00:37:17 »
I have three full diaries in a closet!
Doing it on computer is probably better.
Nice article Demo. Except that I can't take a lot of vitamin C (it makes me feel extremely stressed, I could never find why. They're also talking about vitamin E 800 ui. More than 60ui and my lips start to be numb, it's scary when I have this. When I had this for the first time it was after taking my first and last 800ui dose of vitamin E.
But I have hope with cortisol, we'll see. I had high cortisol in the past but the endocrinologist did nothing for this. He said you have high cortisol and good bye ! I'm wondering if after a while, having elevated cortisol can cause adrenal exhaustion with cortisol deficiency.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1933 on: 10/11/2008 00:42:23 »
Hi Mellivora, you are very rare here! If you didn't read all the precedent messages one important thing is Counterpoints's form here : http://pois.olympe-network.com/
Also I'm not sure if you have seen Girlwind's video :
Good luck.
 

Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1934 on: 10/11/2008 03:25:08 »
Quote
and great to see you back!
Thanks Demografx, its good to feel involved again. I hope I can stick around long enough in one stint this time to make a contribution even a hundredth as significant as those made by some of the regular writers on this forum who are making giant leaps for POIS sufferers. (Of course everyone who posts makes a significant contribution just by telling their own stories and brainstorming in their ideas).

Quote
Hi Mellivora, you are very rare here! If you didn't read all the precedent messages one important thing is Counterpoints's form here : http://pois.olympe-network.com/
Also I'm not sure if you have seen Girlwind's video :
Good luck.
Posted on: Today at 00:37:17Posted by: martin88 
This is a great post for me Martin88 -  thanks for taking time to update me and bring the questionnaire and finished video to my attention.

Counterpoints you've spent a lot of time and consideration putting the questionnaire together (helped by others on the forum) - thank you. It may take me a little while to complete but it looks great and I think  it is an important step.

Girlwind you've done a fantastic job with the video  - its a terrifically concise and accessible summary of what POIS, how it affects sufferers, and the current state of play with research. Thanks!

I've spent a good while reading posts today and I'm still only on page 52 (admittedly under the influence of POIS so I'm probably a bit slow). It really emphasises how active and determined this forum is and how much support we gain from visiting it.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1935 on: 10/11/2008 16:02:35 »
But I have hope with cortisol, we'll see. I had high cortisol in the past but the endocrinologist did nothing for this. He
said you have high cortisol and good bye ! I'm wondering if after a while, having elevated cortisol can cause adrenal
exhaustion with cortisol deficiency.

Martin: that's what happened to me. I initially and repeatedly had high cortisol, due to stress and illness, and
then eventually my adrenals became exhausted and crashed--which showed up as low levels of cortisol. After MANY
years of adrenal boosting supplements, I finally had normal levels last time in September. But because they're on the
low normal end of the scale, I know I'm not out of the woods yet. Also, I can tell from my symptoms, that I still need
adrenal boosting. It takes a long time to recharge drained adrenals. Too bad western medicine doesn't recognize this.


 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1936 on: 10/11/2008 17:27:32 »
Thanks Jimmy03 but ED is off-topic, except if you have ED AND Pois. And is this case we recommand Levitra.

Thanks, B_Jim, for the alert. I deleted his post, he's apparently selling Vigra via his website.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2008 18:23:47 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1937 on: 10/11/2008 17:37:37 »
I'm still waiting to discuss with him more of his IL-6/POIS theory. He was busy this weekend.

----- Original Message -----

From:      [HIV biophysicist]
To:        [demografx]
Sent:      Monday, November 10, 2008 5:51 AM
Subject:   RE: IL-6

Glucocorticoids (like cortisol) have a suppressive effect on the production of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6. 

That would seems to work counter to what you suggest lower cortisol would increase IL-6 and symptoms.  Nonetheless, you might read the enclosed (which deals with symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome):

http://www.cfids.org/archives/2003rr/2003-rr2-article02.asp

Sorry to be so telegraphic.  Im currently a little under water.

-----------------------------------------------------

From:        [demografx]
Sent:         Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:40 PM
To:          [HIV biophysicist]
Subject:      IL-6

Does IL-6 affect cortisol? POIS Forum sufferers are having preliminarily good results testing Relora, a plant, which lowers cortisol.
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1938 on: 10/11/2008 22:07:10 »
I have results using Fenugreek.

Fenugreek reduced my POIS symptoms 90% after ejaculation.  I used fenugreek two days prior to testing and ejaculated three times in a row.

Observations - The symptoms are near null but with a cost.  What cost?  Ready carefully, the cost was a less intense orgasm...I mean way less intense.  The sum of all three orgasms wasn't even equal to an 'O' before the fenugreek.

Conclusion - Maybe people who experience POIS have more intense orgasms.  I was addicted to masterbating 10 years ago because it felt so damn good.  And now it feels just as good (but I chose not to be addicted by reducing 'O's).  Maybe our orgasms are more intense because our bodies hormones flood during orgasms or tweak out somehow.  On fenugreek my orgasms were good but not insane like usual.  Fenugreek reduced the orgasm intensity and reduced my symptoms.

So does orgasm intensity = POIS symptoms intensity?  If so, sex could be compared to drugs or alcohol - the more intense the rush/high/orgasm, the better you feel but a worst recovery/low.

Does anyone else have this experience?

*****Note*****  The vitamin shoppe fenugreek did not reduce 'O' intensity or symptoms.  The Solgar Fenugreek worked.  Brand is important. 
« Last Edit: 10/11/2008 23:53:24 by Limejuice »
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1939 on: 10/11/2008 22:21:19 »
*** Edit *** Important results on the last post on page 84


Nocturnal Emissions - Prevention

I suffered from NE's for years with POIS symptoms I didn't even provoke.  Two years ago a found the solution.  It's easy. I slept on my side - that's it.  When I slept on my stomach I ejaculated...when I slept on my back I ejaculated.  I trained myself to sleep on my side all night which was tough because of rolling over and whatnot.

It worked for me and I've NE'd maybe twice in the last 3 years.  I hope this technique will help someone else.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2008 22:23:13 by Limejuice »
 

Offline reuniting

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1940 on: 11/11/2008 00:38:32 »
Here's a new medical abstract, which may help to explain why orgasm (which lowers dopamine) may produce temporary social anxiety. In plain language, this experiment shows that dopamine levels seem to have more effect on social anxiety than SSRIs (the usual treatment, which increases serotonin...and possibly, indirectly, dopamine).

Dopaminergic challenges in social anxiety disorder evidence for dopamine D3 desensitisation following successful treatment with serotonergic antidepressants.

Abstract Serotonergic antidepressants (SSRIs) are first-line treatments for social anxiety disorder [SAnD], though there is evidence of dopaminergic system dysfunction. Twenty subjects with DSM-IV SAnD, untreated (n = 10) and SSRI-remitted DSM-IV SAnD (n = 10), were administered a single dose of 1) a dopamine agonist (pramipexole 0.5 mg) and 2) a dopamine antagonist (sulpiride 400 mg), followed by anxiogenic challenges (verbal tasks and autobiographical scripts) in a double-blind crossover design, the two test days being one week apart. Anxiety symptoms were measured by self-reported changes in Visual Analogue Scales, specific SAnD scales and anxiety questionnaires. Plasma levels of prolactin were obtained. Untreated SAnD subjects experienced significant increases in anxiety symptoms following behavioural challenges after either sulpiride or pramipexole. Following remission with SSRIs, the socially anxiogenic effect of behavioural provocation was significantly attenuated under dopamine agonist pramipexole, whereas under sulpiride effects remained significantly elevated. There appears to be instability of the dopamine system under behavioural stress in social anxiety subjects that is only partly rectified by successful treatment with an SSRI, which may induce a desensitisation of postsynaptic dopamine D3 receptors.

newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18838500 [nonactive]
« Last Edit: 11/11/2008 18:11:20 by reuniting »
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1941 on: 11/11/2008 10:55:04 »
Limejuice,
Your experience complements mine: after consuming fenugreek I had a "small" NE. Perhaps your theory on orgasm intensity is correct, when I was young I had such an addiction as well, perhaps we somehow taught our bodies to go big. I tried another pill yesterday morning just to try it's effect on me again, and even one produced a small antidepressant-like effect, noticeable within a day of taking it. It messed up my fragile sleeping again so I will discontinue it for now.

Do you experience any side effects with fenugreek?
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1942 on: 11/11/2008 16:45:32 »
...I have had two Nightly.E in a row...I will also note i havnt orgasm in montths. ??? ??? ???

Isn't a Nightly.E an orgasm?


Am not sure about similarities and differencies between N.E and a normal orgams.  But i made conclusion there is a difference because Pois is weaker after N.E than other orgasms.
 

Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1943 on: 11/11/2008 17:42:05 »
I used to have NE almost nightly.  Because I got stiff and headaches I would take pain killers & muscle relaxers like aspirin and Ibuprofen etc  I found that If I limited them to only morning and afternoon the NE stopped.   
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1944 on: 11/11/2008 18:04:05 »
My NE as a female is what I call dream orgasms. And yes, they are definitely not as draining as "conscious"
orgasms. I also notice that they happen most often in the middle of my cycle (near ovulation) and at the
end of my cycle (pre-menstrually). I've considered them to be some kind of hormonal release orgasms,
because of that pattern. I suspect the liver would be involved somehow, because it processes progesterone
and estrogen. But I have no idea what is really happening or why or what the physiological dynamics are.
Also, I have always had strong orgasms, from a very early age (age 3), which I think is quite unusual for a
woman. (Or maybe most women just don't talk about it.) It wasn't until I was 16, that I finally found out
that those "pleasure spasms" I was giving myself actually had a name! Though I don't think I was addicted
or excessive, I was definitely consistent.
« Last Edit: 11/11/2008 18:14:34 by girlwind »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1945 on: 11/11/2008 20:10:15 »
So does orgasm intensity = POIS symptoms intensity?  If so, sex could be compared to drugs or alcohol - the more intense the rush/high/orgasm, the better you feel but a worst recovery/low.

Does anyone else have this experience?

Low, even almost no, intensity has still created nightmarish POIS at times. No predictability for me.

Am not sure about similarities and differencies between N.E and a normal orgams.  But i made conclusion there is a difference because Pois is weaker after N.E than other orgasms.

It's been a while since having N.E.'s, but again, no predictability. Some of the worst POIS for me has come from N.E.
« Last Edit: 11/11/2008 20:15:14 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1946 on: 11/11/2008 20:23:47 »
Here's a new medical abstract, which may help to explain why orgasm (which lowers dopamine) may produce temporary social anxiety...

Hi, reuniting, thanks for posting again! Your website,
http://www.reuniting.info/ is very interesting! And thanks again for your posting a link to our site.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1947 on: 12/11/2008 00:20:48 »
Hi Limejuice and Reuniting.

In my case I can't see a difference in pois with variation of orgasm/ejaculation intensity.
I have NE if I sleep on the side, but I agree NE seems to happen easily when sleeping on the back.

Thank you Reuniting for this article on social anxiety. Dopamine is involved, that's perhaps why MAOI antidepressants work better to cure this. http://www.socialfear.com/
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1948 on: 12/11/2008 01:07:32 »
Girlwind, you had high cortisol initially and low cortisol afterwards and now normal cortisol in the lower range. How were your pois symptoms in all these three states ? Thank you!

Here is a very interesting link about cortisol testing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8047637

http://www.janethull.com/faqs/why-use-saliva-not-blood.php

According to several readings and one or two posts here, testosterone is increased after orgasm. Does anyone here feel this ? I don't think because we all have low libido/energy after. What is interesting is that testosterone levels are modified by orgasm/ejac. This is a major finding I think. I don't know enough about this, but is it possible that testosterone is increased in blood because it's not used  somewhere else where it's necessary (in the brain or tissues ...) ?
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1949 on: 12/11/2008 01:44:35 »
Girlwind, you had high cortisol initially and low cortisol afterwards and now normal cortisol in the lower range. How were your pois symptoms
in all these three states ? Thank you!

Here is a very interesting link about cortisol testing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8047637

http://www.janethull.com/faqs/why-use-saliva-not-blood.php

According to several readings and one or two posts here, testosterone is increased after orgasm. Does anyone here feel this ? I don't think because
we all have low libido/energy after.

Thanks for the article confirming the validity and reliability of saliva cortisol testing! (For those who need proof.)

"The assessment of cortisol in saliva has proven a valid and reliable reflection of the respective unbound hormone
in blood. To date, assessment of cortisol in saliva is a widely accepted and frequently employed method in psycho-
neuroendocrinology."

As for my cortisol levels, in regard to POIS. I had absolutely no sex during the time they were too high, as I was far too ill
and stressed to even consider that an option. During the times I tested very low, POIS was as bad as  could be, and in those
days I didn't know what POIS was or what was causing it, so I didn't make any connection btwn POIS and cortisol. I have
definitely noticed improvement in POIS with my cortisol normalizing, but it is not 100% better. (Also, I still practice a lot of
orgasm avoidance.) By addressing the thyroid issue, which I have been treating with herbs and iodine foods for about 2 months,
I think I've improved from 50% to 75% of my POIS symptoms. I definitely don't have POIS as long as before--it's only 1 day now.

It's hard for me to believe that testosterone is increased after orgasm, not with the kind of symptoms that we
all have had. Testosterone gives you drive and energy, and that's not anything like POIS.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1949 on: 12/11/2008 01:44:35 »

 

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