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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6449477 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2050 on: 21/11/2008 17:28:11 »
...I have no doubt that Levitra is powerful and effective for you. But you say it's only a 50-75% cure.

Martin, if I took 20 mg (I take 10mg now) I suspect it would be a 100% POIS cure. It's risky but I might do it. Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion about that?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2051 on: 21/11/2008 17:30:23 »
So it [Fenugreek] is still very successful for me!

Hurray, this is very exciting news! Congratulations!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2052 on: 21/11/2008 17:42:49 »
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990617072302.htm
The track we are following with cortisol seems like a very plausible path because this articles supports high cortisol level for short period affects memory functions.

Fascinating, CC! Even without POIS (created after 30+ years of POIS?)I have the attention span of a hamster in heat. ;D
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2053 on: 21/11/2008 17:46:51 »
I understand that you'll probably have to find the [university endocrinology] boss there to ask how to initiate a research! Obviously anything we can try to be able to start something will be very welcome.

I think winning over the endocrinologist I'm working with might be more beneficial. They all have stellar reputations and can "fight" for a particular project/grant, etc. I'm taking it a step at a time. First step is to see what they can do for me as a POIS patient!
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2054 on: 21/11/2008 18:10:45 »
...I have no doubt that Levitra is powerful and effective for you. But you say it's only a 50-75% cure.

Martin, if I took 20 mg (I take 10mg now) I suspect it would be a 100% POIS cure. It's risky but I might do it. Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion about that?

Demo you know the manufactured doses are 2.5 mg, 5 mg, 10 mg, and 20 mg of vardenafil.  Are you experiencing negative side-effects at 10mg?  How risky would trying 20 mg once, be?  The latter question might be best suited for a doctor but you've done the research I'm sure.  What are your thoughts?
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2055 on: 21/11/2008 18:23:43 »
Hi, haven't posted for a bit due to not having internet access.

The fenugreek supplements are still working very well - I am taking 3 capsules of Solgar fenugreek before and after orgasm, as well as having a protein-heavy meal shortly after. On a couple of occasions the POIS symptoms have hardly happened at all, on a couple more they have been very substantially reduced (70%). On one occasion when I left out the protein meal and did not take fenugreek after the event, the POIS effects were only partly alleviated.

So it is still very successful for me!

Fenugreek has still been successful for me too, and that's what I use (not relora).  The dose schedule is two pills before release and one after.  An approximate reduction in symptoms is around 90%.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2056 on: 21/11/2008 18:53:20 »
I understand that you'll probably have to find the [university endocrinology] boss there to ask how to initiate a research! Obviously anything we can try to be able to start something will be very welcome.

I think winning over the endocrinologist I'm working with might be more beneficial. They all have stellar reputations and can "fight" for a particular project/grant, etc. I'm taking it a step at a time. First step is to see what they can do for me as a POIS patient!

"Winning over an endrocrinologist" is not going to be a piece of cake. The two main issues endocrinologists deal with
are diabetes and thyroid problems. Many of them focus almost exclusively on diabetes, because there are more medicines to
play with, so it attracts more interest, and of course more money. And as far as the thyroid issue goes, most endocrinologists
are VERY CONSERVATIVE and ENTRENCHED in strong opinions about thyroid tests and treatments.

"Endocrinologists are the accountants of medicine," writes Mary Shomon. "They love numbers and many are more
comfortable reading lab charts and numbers off blood test results than interacting with patients or engaging in creative
problem-solving.


So be fore-warned! AND definitely be prepared!
« Last Edit: 21/11/2008 18:56:38 by girlwind »
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2057 on: 21/11/2008 21:25:17 »
I was reading when I remembered an interesting event.  I had noticed many months ago that when I was free of all POIS symptoms I would fall asleep or drift off often while reading a certain book.  But the three days after masturbation I noticed I could not fall asleep or even come close to drifting off while reading the same book.

Perhaps cortisol has an important function in sleep. As I mentioned before, I had insomnia the nights following orgasm.  And others have mentioned that Relora has actually caused insomnia.  So I definitely see a connection between sleep and cortisol and orgasm.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2058 on: 21/11/2008 21:42:47 »
Perhaps cortisol has an important function in sleep. As I mentioned before, I had insomnia the nights following orgasm.  And others have
mentioned that Relora has actually caused insomnia.  So I definitely see a connection between sleep and cortisol and orgasm.

There is definitely a connection between adrenal health and insomnia. Check out the article below.

http://www.nutritionalmedicine.org.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/franklin?opendocument&part=6
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2059 on: 21/11/2008 23:19:31 »
I've ran several google searchs and couldn't find symptoms for low prolactin.  Does anyone know what these symptoms are?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2060 on: 22/11/2008 01:43:14 »
Demo you know the [Levitra] manufactured doses are 2.5 mg, 5 mg, 10 mg, and 20 mg of vardenafil.  Are you experiencing negative side-effects at 10mg?  How risky would trying 20 mg once, be?  The latter question might be best suited for a doctor but you've done the research I'm sure.  What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Limejuice. Absolutely no side effects, but I wonder if the POIS-action is softening (no pun intended:-) Frankly, I'm scared. A TINY TINY minority have experienced temporary vision loss, and even fewer....but scary....permanent. Even if it's 0.0000000000001% it doesn't matter if that one is.....ME! So thanx again, I'll ask a few docs, and  maybe the upcoming university endocrinologist?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2061 on: 22/11/2008 01:51:31 »
I've ran several google searchs and couldn't find symptoms for low prolactin.  Does anyone know what these symptoms are?

I Googled prolactin deficiency and came up with a few results. One (only one I selected at random) says, "Prolactin deficiency is rare and is the result of partial or generalized anterior pituitary failure. When present, the symptom is absence of milk production in women. There are no known symptoms for men.[emphasis mine] ADH [antidiuretic hormone] deficiency may produce symptoms of diabetes insipidus, such as excessive thirst and frequent urination."
from http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/hypopituitarism.jsp

Here are the Google results:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=prolactin+deficiency&aq=f&oq=
« Last Edit: 22/11/2008 02:30:49 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2062 on: 22/11/2008 02:04:15 »
Perhaps cortisol has an important function in sleep. As I mentioned before, I had insomnia the nights following orgasm.  And others have
mentioned that Relora has actually caused insomnia.  So I definitely see a connection between sleep and cortisol and orgasm.

The Relora manufacturer states, "causes trouble sleeping" as a side effect.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2063 on: 22/11/2008 02:20:31 »
Thanks for the welcome B_Jim and Demo, I feel fortunate to find so many posters who are attacking the problem with a logical and open minded approach.  I get a sense that there's no real panacea here but rather a good mix of remedies that need experimentation.  No need to worry though Demo, I have no intention of experimenting with any drug without proper medical supervision!
I haven't had time to read through the entire thread yet so I'm reluctant to ask any questions out of courtesy but I was wondering if testosterone levels had been abandoned as a possible cause and if so why?  I ask because I notice a proportional rise in libido to decline in my symptoms of POIS. Was I wrong to think of testosterone as the primary agent here?

Thanks again everyone.

Andreas, I went on a several month T-binge. It worked for POIS once, and that was it. Placebo effect probably. Libido revived, and then some. But now off it, I wonder if it hurt my natural T-production. Controversial stuff!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2064 on: 22/11/2008 06:31:14 »
RE MY SEEING A UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST (December 2)

...The two main issues endocrinologists deal with are diabetes and thyroid problems. Many of them focus almost exclusively on diabetes, because there are more medicines to play with, so it attracts more interest, and of course more money. And as far as the thyroid issue goes, most endocrinologists are VERY CONSERVATIVE and ENTRENCHED in strong opinions about thyroid tests and treatments.

"Endocrinologists are the accountants of medicine," writes Mary Shomon. "They love numbers and many are more comfortable reading lab charts and numbers off blood test results than interacting with patients or engaging in creative
problem-solving.


So be fore-warned! AND definitely be prepared!

Girlwind, thanks for the warning. Your depiction reminds me of the non-creative "bean counters" in business. Hopefully, this top-ranked university I'm seeing will bring forth a creative endocrinologist, if I'm lucky. Or at the very least, one who is well above the average. You mention diabetes and thyroid. Yes, they are very much doing that, but they also work in the sexual arena, I was glad to find out.

Keep in mind that Dr. Dave Schweitzer is an endocrinologist and he was the co-author with Dr. Waldinger of the very first POIS study...EVER. As a "co-founder of POIS" that's pretty creative in my book, for a malady that usually garners blank stares or worse, as we all well know, from most medicos I and most others here have unfortunately encountered in the last 30 years.

I'm also going by a consensus that has been reached by a number of people here at this forum, that an endocrinologist sifting through all of our posts/data can only be beneficial. And from nearly two years ago when this forum was started off by John21, that's been the consistent first choice of medical professional to assist us all.

But I will heed your warning. I just hope that I meet with an anomaly. A good one!

I don't need to win over anyone at this stage. I am a bonafide patient. A POIS patient. If I am treated well and logically (I will share my experience with you all) I will try to get us to a next step of either hopping on to an existing clinical trial or some research study (Government, private, or pharmaceutical) as a "POIS subset" or seeing if we can somehow get some assistance in sifting through this huge mass of data known as The POIS Forum. I don't know about you, but my head is SPINNING with all the good POIS theories, individual forum members' experiences, forum members' drug/supplement trials, etc. that whiz by every day on our computer screens! B_Jim, Counterpoints and others have done superb distillation work, but we need some more synthesis, summarization, hypothesis/testing, etc. by a medical professional(s). Naturopathic or any other form of testing that can yield POIS relief is most welcome as well.

At this stage, I think we all need to keep it very simple. This is merely ONE more step that we are trying out amongst MANY attempts we have made to get professional outside help. And frankly, we're not exactly blazing any trails; we are a small group with a rare malady, not top-of-mind for the medical research community at large! And so far, what this particular discussion really boils down to is...that I have a doctor's appointment :)
« Last Edit: 22/11/2008 07:59:17 by demografx »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2065 on: 22/11/2008 17:27:22 »
RE MY SEEING A UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST (December 2)

I'm also going by a consensus that has been reached by a number of people here at this forum, that an endocrinologist sifting
through all of our posts/data can only be beneficial. And from nearly two years ago when this forum was started off by John21,
that's been the consistent first choice of medical professional to assist us all.

But I will heed your warning. I just hope that I meet with an anomaly. A good one!

If I am treated well and logically (I will share my experience with you all) I will try to get us to a next step of either hopping on
to an existing clinical trial or some research study (Government, private, or pharmaceutical) as a "POIS subset" or seeing if we
can somehow get some assistance in sifting through this huge mass of data known as The POIS Forum. I don't know about you,
but my head is SPINNING with all the good POIS theories, individual forum members' experiences, forum members' drug/supple-
ment trials, etc. that whiz by every day on our computer screens! B_Jim, Counterpoints and others have done superb distillation
work, but we need some more synthesis, summarization, hypothesis/testing, etc. by a medical professional(s). Naturopathic or
any other form of testing that can yield POIS relief is most welcome as well.

At this stage, I think we all need to keep it very simple. This is merely ONE more step that we are trying out amongst MANY
attempts we have made to get professional outside help. And frankly, we're not exactly blazing any trails; we are a small group with
a rare malady, not top-of-mind for the medical research community at large! And so far, what this particular discussion really boils
down to is...that I have a doctor's appointment :)

DEMOGRAFX:

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to see an endocrinologist. I'm just sharing with you what I have been told by some
other patients (with CFS and thyroid issues) and what I've read about this branch of medicine. I think it would DEFINITELY serve
you well to be VERY WELL PREPARED for that visit, with as much of your own personal medical data as possible, including
copies of any PAST BLOOD TEST RESULTS, a type-written CHRONOLOGICAL MEDICAL HISTORY, and a separate page
with your CURRENT MAIN SYMPTOMS, with brief explanations as to how each symptom affects your life and health, as well as
A LIST OF ALL MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLEMENTS YOU HAVE TRIED in the past for POIS (that did not work for you), as well
as a PARAGRAPH ABOUT WHAT HAS WORKED (Levitra) and to what extent it has.

I would also consider writing up a brief agenda for the doctor appointment, with a list of priorities you wish to cover and
questions you want to make sure to ask, and making two copies of it--one for you, one for doc. Since, this doctor will be working
FOR YOU, just like any other "contractor" would, it's good to let him know early on in the visit what your key concerns are. Some
doctors are so quick to make their OWN agenda during visits with them and they can completely dismiss the patient's needs in the
process. So I am a big advocate of the patient making clear his/her agenda early on. Also, it ensures that you won't forget all that
you want to cover with the doctor, including ALL THE DIAGNOSTIC TESTS YOU WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. I've seen a lot of doctors, and I've always done better when I came in to the appointment really
well-prepared, with my health concerns well documented.
« Last Edit: 22/11/2008 18:00:05 by girlwind »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2066 on: 23/11/2008 00:36:40 »
Demografx: Extreme physical exhaustion does not sound like a sign of high cortisol to me (though I could be wrong, and a better answer would not be so simple).  I am currently looking for some quality information to post about high and low cortisol levels, and the side effects, and the treatments.
« Last Edit: 23/11/2008 00:38:36 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2067 on: 23/11/2008 01:15:54 »
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to see an endocrinologist. I'm just sharing with you what I have been told by some other patients (with CFS and thyroid issues) and what I've read about this branch of medicine. I think it would DEFINITELY serve
you well to be VERY WELL PREPARED for that visit, with as much of your own personal medical data as possible...

Girlwind, this is excellent advice. Thank you! My agenda has often been derailed just as you described. The truth of the matter is that I need to muster the discipline to do this: as you know about me by now, I tend to be a "global chatter"...with an erratic fondness for detail:)
« Last Edit: 23/11/2008 01:27:08 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2068 on: 23/11/2008 01:25:01 »
Demografx: Extreme physical exhaustion does not sound like a sign of high cortisol to me (though I could be wrong, and a better answer would not be so simple)...

Counterpoints, that's exactly my concern. I would recommend that the cortisol path be examined concomitantly with the fatigue path. I, for one, am typical of the fatigue-as-primary-symptom crowd. I think you're more in the cognitive-impairment-as-primary group.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2069 on: 23/11/2008 01:57:04 »
Good idea, demografx.  I think there are several mechanisms that cause these symptoms.  Some of us may only be affected by one or two of these, others may be affected by different ones, or all of them.  In this case, it's helpful to group symptoms, so that we can tackle each group separately, and efficiently come up with solutions.  It can be confusing, especially for physicians who are being introduced to this problem, to have lists of symptoms that are not processed in this way -- intuitively, they will be searching for something that explains everything, yet there could be a different explanation for each group of different symptoms.
 

Offline Whoa

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2070 on: 23/11/2008 03:20:01 »
Perhaps cortisol has an important function in sleep. As I mentioned before, I had insomnia the nights following orgasm.  And others have
mentioned that Relora has actually caused insomnia.  So I definitely see a connection between sleep and cortisol and orgasm.

There is definitely a connection between adrenal health and insomnia. Check out the article below.

newbielink:http://www.nutritionalmedicine.org.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/franklin?opendocument&part=6 [nonactive]


A few things I want to put out there.

1. Personally, I've quite the opposite of insomnia while experiencing POIS symptoms. In fact, for several hours afterward, I can barely keep my eyes open.

2. Sleep is one of the things that, for me, "heals" the symptoms.

3. On the occasions where I only get 1 or 2 hours of sleep, I feel physical/mental fatigue similar to POIS even if I did not orgasm beforehand (or beforecoital - ability to come up with bad puns isn't harmed).


Demografx: Extreme physical exhaustion does not sound like a sign of high cortisol to me (though I could be wrong, and a better answer would not be so simple)...

Counterpoints, that's exactly my concern. I would recommend that the cortisol path be examined concomitantly with the fatigue path. I, for one, am typical of the fatigue-as-primary-symptom crowd. I think you're more in the cognitive-impairment-as-primary group.

OK, I'm both then - severe physical and mental fatigue.
« Last Edit: 23/11/2008 03:22:06 by Whoa »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2071 on: 23/11/2008 03:41:19 »
Please, is there someone who's able to help with this :
I know there is someone who was supposedly cured with zoloft. Do you know where I can find the original document about this ? I searched in the forum but maybe not enough.

Also there was an other person who was helped with Levitra, sorry I don't remember who. It would be helpful to have an answer (just to be sure) to the following: were you taking other meds with Levitra? (Demografx is taking SNRI along with Levitra.)
Psychiatrists like TCM practitionners are frequently using several drugs together to cure one disease.(for example, one can help with side effects of the other).

SSRI can help with pois by reducing orgasm frequency:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg187324#msg187324

Also if someone has a good article concerning SSRI or SNRI and cortisol..
« Last Edit: 23/11/2008 04:09:40 by martin88 »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2072 on: 23/11/2008 03:55:12 »
A few things I want to put out there.
1. Personally, I've quite the opposite of insomnia while experiencing POIS symptoms. In fact, for several hours afterward, I can barely keep my eyes open.
2. Sleep is one of the things that, for me, "heals" the symptoms.
3. On the occasions where I only get 1 or 2 hours of sleep, I feel physical/mental fatigue similar to POIS even if I did not orgasm beforehand (or beforecoital - ability to come up with bad puns isn't harmed).

OK, I'm both then - severe physical and mental fatigue.
Thank you Whoa for this information. If not done already this would have been something interesting to put in the form http://pois.olympe-network.com/ 
Also the more cases we'll have in this database, the more we'll be credible in front of researchers. It's written "more than 140 cases of pois" in the front of the forum but there is only a few filled forms for now.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2073 on: 23/11/2008 05:04:05 »
Like Whoa when i use relora, i tend to get sleepy. When i started using it, all i did was sleep. But now i don't fall asleep as easily but when i go to sleep, it is scarily deep.  3 hrs of sleep feels like i have slept for days in terms of intense dreaming.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2074 on: 23/11/2008 05:05:00 »
Limejuice where did you get that solgar fenugreek, I will be very interested if relora doesn't work out.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2074 on: 23/11/2008 05:05:00 »

 

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