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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6436843 times)

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2150 on: 27/11/2008 13:54:53 »
It would be great to know if you took other meds with Levitra.
No, nothing else with Levitra. Although, I can't help but think that perhaps it was a placebo effect. At the time, I was just starting to date my girlfriend and I couldn't wipe the smile off my face if you know what I mean. It may have negated the effects of POIS.

I've tried again, more recently, only I had about 3 orgasms in a three hour period. It did not prevent POIS.

All times, it was a 10MG dose, and all times I had dry sinuses as the main side effect.
Thank you Whoa. So the mystery remains. I'd really like to know the impact SSRI can have on pois. I tend to believe that the combination of a long sexual abstinence helped by SSRI can have a positive impact on pois.

The times that I've tried Tantra, I've felt satisfied without ejaculation, I had no POIS symptoms. There definitely is a link between ejaculation and POIS, for me anyway.
I saw on TV in a sexology show a man with pois who was cured by tantra.
He said about his pois that he was fatigued and had difficulty to communicate after ejaculation. After he reduced his ejaculation frequency he was cured.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2151 on: 27/11/2008 14:03:38 »
[Is there] a good article concerning SSRI or SNRI and cortisol[?]...

Martin, my psychiatrist-friend's reply:
Hi [demografx],
 
Not really.  There is a general association between depression and increased cortisol levels and PTSD and low cortisols.  If you Google cortisol and either SSRI or depression, there are many many hits.
 
[signed]
Thanks for this.
What about the cortisol in this case !
The comorbidity of PTSD and depressive disorders is of particular interest. Across a number of studies, these are the disorders most likely to co-occur with PTSD.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10795606?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2152 on: 27/11/2008 18:17:35 »
This thread has exploded!

The longer I've belonged to the thread the more I want to test Dr. Waldinger's hypothsis.  The question is how?  Should I suppress my immune system and test?  Sounds dangerous!

I have an idea but it might be hard to communicate.  Dr. Waldinger beleived POIS is an immune response to a hormone/chemical released after orgasm, right?  What if we research all chemcals released and then, one at a time, take each one and observe what happens?  If Waldinger is correct our body should react when we take a certain chemical.  No?  Thoughts?
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2153 on: 27/11/2008 21:07:35 »
Welcome to all new posters.  There have been some very interesting discussions taking place recently!
I urge you to record your cases at http://pois.olympe-network.com
Anything submitted there will be reviewed by MDs, PhDs, and other medical researchers.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2154 on: 27/11/2008 21:21:14 »
This thread has exploded!

The longer I've belonged to the thread the more I want to test Dr. Waldinger's hypothsis.  The question is how?  Should I suppress my immune system and test?  Sounds dangerous!

I have an idea but it might be hard to communicate.  Dr. Waldinger beleived POIS is an immune response to a hormone/chemical released after orgasm, right?  What if we research all chemcals released and then, one at a time, take each one and observe what happens?  If Waldinger is correct our body should react when we take a certain chemical.  No?  Thoughts?

Limejuice, with all due respect to Dr Waldinger, this forum has gone way beyond his two subjects studied in his classic paper. We have garnered a tremendous amount of information and we represent - with B_Jim's summary on Page 11 - well over 140 cases and who knows how many dozens of theories?

I would be very careful and only conduct such tests under extremely well supervised tests.

Limejuice, if you'd like to write to Dr Waldinger and get his opinion, send me a Private Message.
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 21:28:53 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2155 on: 27/11/2008 21:24:36 »




In case you're considering Horny Goat Weed ;D
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2156 on: 27/11/2008 21:26:21 »
Martin88,
Quote
Thank you Whoa. So the mystery remains. I'd really like to know the impact SSRI can have on pois. I tend to believe that the combination of a long sexual abstinence helped by SSRI can have a positive impact on pois.

SSRIs (I've been on many) had no effect on my POIS, although they assisted my PE somewhat.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2157 on: 27/11/2008 21:37:56 »
Martin88,
SSRIs (I've been on many) had no effect on my POIS, although they assisted my PE somewhat.

I've been on SSRI's for 20 years. No POIS effect. They have lowered my libido, however.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2158 on: 27/11/2008 21:49:25 »
POIS DIARY

This is Day 3, Thanksgiving Day, so I'll give thanks to (1) this forum, a sanity/lifesaver and (2) Levitra and other successes we've found here.

I'm less tired, but not 100%. And I notice the tiredness makes me less than optimally focused. I'm playing piano tomorrow and I'm just a little concerned that I won't be "100% on". My motivation to play during this POIS episode has been somewhat lower due to the fatigue.

For myself, I want to focus on increasing energy during the POIS period. Any ideas are obviously most welcome.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2159 on: 27/11/2008 22:27:09 »
A glass of water with half a teaspoon of salt is almost certainly harmless -- especially when you consider what is in most soft drinks, etc. But in any case, I want to warn those trying to self-medicate hyponatremia:

"Hypoosmolar hyponatremia

When the plasma osmolarity is low, the extracellular fluid volume status may be in one of three states:

    * Low volume. Loss of water is accompanied by loss of sodium.
          o Excessive sweating
          o Burns
          o Vomiting
          o Diarrhea
          o Urinary loss
                + Diuretic drugs (especially thiazides)
                + Addison's disease
                + Cerebral salt-wasting syndrome
                + Other salt-wasting kidney diseases

Treat underlying cause and give IV isotonic saline. It is important to note that sudden restoration of blood volume to normal will turn off the stimulus for continued ADH secretion. Hence, a prompt water diuresis will occur. This can cause a sudden and dramatic increase the serum sodium concentration and place the patient at risk for so-called "central pontine myelinolysis" (CPM). That disorder is characterized by major neurologic damage, often of a permanent nature.

Because of the risk of CPM, patients with low volume hyponatremia may eventually require water infusion as well as volume replacement. Doing so lessens the chance of a too rapid increase of the serum sodium level as blood volume rises and ADH levels fall."

There is also an adrenal-hyponatremia link. "hyponatremia can also result from adrenal insufficiency, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, hypothyroidism, and some medications. However, the vast majority of cases, and perhaps all, of medication-associated hyponatremia is not due to the medication per se. Rather, the medication has caused SIADH or has led to volume depletion"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia
 

Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2160 on: 28/11/2008 01:21:54 »
Re: Limejuice

I think that you are on the right track limejuice. I do agree with demographx though that such testing should be done under strict professional controls due to the types of chemicals and hormones that we might have to take. Sounds dangerous. 

However..... I don't see why we cannot do our own research on other dimensions related to POIS. I'm a grad student in psychology and have studied experimental design. I am familiar with how to do research. Why not do our own volunteer study and see if we can't generate some info. I mean, it won't be a simple randomized double blind controlled study, but it might tell us something.

I guess it all depends on who wants to do it. Recently we have discovered a number of "coping strategies/cures" to deal with our POIS. These have included the use of fenugreek, relora, Celtic Sea salt, high protien/low carb diets, Levita, garlic...and a few others that I'm sure I haven't mentioned. Why can't we do our own volunteer study using one of these proposed "cures".

We get as many volunteers/POIS suffers as we can. Set the prescribed independent variable(I.E. fenugreek, solgar brand, one capsule three times per day two days before and two days after orgasm - just as an example) and see what people have to say about there POIS symptoms(dependant variable - we would need a rating scale). It won't be double blind, and we won't be able to compare it to a control group. But the findings will at least be more generalizable than when people take a "remedy" on their own, at different times of day, using different brands, in different amounts, with other "combinations of remedies" and so on and so forth. We have to isolate in order to separate what works from what's crap.

Any volunteers say "I". First we would have to get enough people...5 min would be good 20 would be phenomenal. We could then self administer (say fenugreek, solgar brand). Then report back here with our results. However, I just wanna see if anyone would be interested before we move onto technicalities.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2161 on: 28/11/2008 04:56:36 »
Chewbacca, very interesting idea. I'm just a little concerned about doing that without any healthcare advisor. This is not an attitudinal/psychological study, it's medical.

Along those lines, I think we're at a point where we're seeing different "POIS groups" and they need to be defined. For example, fatigue-primary POIS vs. cognitive-primary POIS.B_Jim for example, does well with protein. I do well with carbohydrates. I suspect there are more differences.

Symptoms do vary and so do reactions to remedies. I think we've seen fenugreek and relora not work for some as an example.

Considering potentially harmful interaction effects, your fenugreek example might be harmful to someone with an unknown underlying condition that is super-sensitive to any oxytocin-like effect. If I were conducting the study, I would feel responsible if I didn't do everything to prevent an adverse reaction.

I don't want to be overly alarmist or negative, but I reacted just as you did to Limejuice's ideas. Excellent, but needs supervision. Even without a study environment, just individual experimenting, medical caution has always been promoted extensively here. In a study environment, that would need to be ratcheted up to medical supervision, in my opinion.

On the other hand, there is "testing" going on all the time now, where it wasn't just 6 months ago and earlier.

I understand the frustration of the relatively slow pace we're at sometimes. But we've probably learned as much as Dr Waldinger and his team over 5 years compared to our less than two year existence.

I think we're getting closer to outside help, including our individual forays with healthcare professionals.

Chewbacca, please understand, I think your ideas and spirit of doing them are great.
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 05:32:42 by demografx »
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2162 on: 28/11/2008 06:01:49 »
I'm willing to participate (i've been experiementing anyways).  My only reservation is that on days where work or personal life is important that I obstain from orgasm.

I don't take any perscription or OTC medicines.  I agree with Demo that people with like symptoms should be grouped.

"I"
 

Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2163 on: 28/11/2008 06:24:27 »
RE: Demografx

You have some valid points demografx and I respect your concerns. I think though that perhaps your concerns can be eased. I am not asking anyone to do anything without the consent of there health care provider, that would be dumb. If we did do an unoffical "study"{and it doesn't have to be with fenugreek) whatever we decide to do can be okayed with the different health care providers that different forum members see in thier home towns or wherever they reside.

Such a "study" is not really a study anyway. We are not an organization doing research. We would be individuals doing self experimentation in an slightly organized manner in order to gain a minute amount of data about the possible validity of certain remedies. Every person on this forum has the right to do whatever they want as long as they are responsible. This includes checking with your health care provider about taking any kind of a supplement. This forum is the medium through which we share our experience. To that end it is a tool that can be utalized for the benefit of us all. It would be a shame to underutalize that tool. I understand your concerns about the health of forum members as well as issues of potential liability. But the potential remedies that have been proposed are not exactly hard core drugs. Fenugreek is a spice Indians use on thier food!

POIS sucks ass, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes, in a responsibe way, to try and find reliable ways of coping or curing it....without waiting for the "experts" to get off thier asses and do something. Besides, help may never come demo. I'm 27. I need to have sex without feeling like sh1t. I'm not asking people to risk thier saftey. Just asking that if there are going to experiement anyway, that maybe we could do it in an organized fashion to increase the likely hood of knowing that certain remedies are useful...or crap. This would be to everyones benefit. We can help ourselves while we wait for "experts" to decide we are worthy of attention.

As for the two categories of POIS suffers...we can always have people self identify to which group thier most prominent symptoms belong.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2164 on: 28/11/2008 06:36:13 »
Chewbacca,

I think it would be hard to organize.  As far as I know, only one person got a cortisol blood test, after I had posted about it (several times, and with some urgency).  And Chewbacca, help has come, in a sense.  We have an MD PhD, who has agreed to study this.  I'm certainly not against an organized self-study -- a lot of good could come of it. And I encourage everyone to participate. But we need to do things in small, manageable steps.  I'd say filling out the questionnaire would be a first step.  Anyways, good luck.  I would possibly be willing to volunteer.

Also: I notice you haven't filled out the questionnaire?

« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 07:13:10 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2165 on: 28/11/2008 13:32:31 »
I avoid to take supplements for now, I'm waiting to have a cortisol test. According to Reuniting, fenugreek can decrease dopamin, I hope it's temporary.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2166 on: 28/11/2008 14:57:51 »
Chewbacca,

Thanks for clarifying your position. What you're saying is, let's do what we do anyway...but get more benefit out of it via more rigid methodology.

If each member of the study lets his/her medical professional know about the study and what they're taking, that sounds better.

Fenugreek was only an example. But we have also discussed harder "drugs"...my Levitra, for example.

But I wholeheartedly understand the frustration of waiting for the outside medical community to arrive (or not!)

As my next step, I will see what one of The Naked Scientists think. They've been around this block many times.

Chewbacca, many thanks for all your thoughtfulness and sense of urgency, not just for yourself but for the whole POIS community!

« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 15:20:32 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2167 on: 28/11/2008 15:01:22 »
[Chewbacca], I notice you haven't filled out the questionnaire?

Counterpoints, I was very surprised to see the above note to Chewbacca made public, to be read by those in the survey and out.

I thought that this would be confidential, private information, to be discussed privately!

TO ALL OTHERS: If you think I am being overly sensitive, or I am not too sensitive about this question, please post your thoughts or let me know. I can get overly concerned sometimes! Thanks!
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 15:33:30 by demografx »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2168 on: 28/11/2008 15:30:44 »
RE: Self Research

I have already been participating in my own little "research study" with various supplements and foods. I have tested
my hormones many times in the past, as well as recently in September. However, because I avoid orgasm as much as
possible, as insurance against POIS, I don't want to deliberately "test" my POIS. I usually just wait for a nocturnal orgasm
to "happen" as my test. I already have enough on my plate with managing the fatigue of CFS, which is my primary health
issue. And I take A LOT of different supplements regularly (about $300/month), which I'm not willing to stop, when I try
something new for POIS. So any new supplement has to be added at the right time, when my other sypmtoms are stable
enough to allow me to discern the specific effect(s). (In general anything that has helped my CFS has helped POIS.)
So I say "I" with the above conditions.

What I have researched and experimented with so far includes:

Adrenal boosting herbal supplements (schizandra, siberian ginseng, B5 with Vit C)--significantly helpful
Thyroid supporting herbs (Ashwaghanda and iodine rich foods like seaweed and and sea salt)--also helpful
High protein/low carb  diet--overall helpful
Garlic--not noticeably helpful
Relora--caused insomnia, not helpful

What I intend to try next will include:

Celtic sea salt (1/2 tsp in H20)
Solgar Fenugreek seed
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2169 on: 28/11/2008 15:50:01 »
Chewbacca's study

I might participate, but I would have to stop Levitra. Also, on December 2, I am seeing a university endocrinologist to see what he says about my condition and if he or the university team can assist this forum.
 

Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2170 on: 28/11/2008 16:37:23 »
RE: Counterpoints

What's the link...I would be happy to fill out the survey. Also, in terms of coordination....if it is more convienient I can start a google e-mail group specifically for those interested in coordinated self experimentation.....then we could report our findings here after we are done. It's a piece of cake to create a dumby email address is you want to keep total privacy. A private group would cut down on the "noise" for people not involved in the coordinated self experimentation.

RE: Demographx

Awesome!....I hope the endocrinologist is of benefit. Hope to have you in the coordinated self experimentation

RE: Girlwind

It would be awesome to have you participate even though you will have certain criteria which is neccessary for you to follow in order to maintain your overall health.

RE: Limejuice

Excellent Limjuice...So far it's you, me, girlwind and maybe demografx

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2171 on: 28/11/2008 17:22:41 »
Excellent Limjuice...So far it's you, me, girlwind and maybe demografx

Would it screw up the study if I continued Levitra? Painful to think of going back to full-blown POIS if the remedy doesn't work..............
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2172 on: 28/11/2008 17:24:50 »
Excellent Limjuice...So far it's you, me, girlwind and maybe demografx

Would it screw up the study if I continued Levitra? Painful to think of going back to full-blown POIS if the remedy doesn't work..............


That's a hard call to make. You have decide how or if to take that risk.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2173 on: 28/11/2008 17:33:08 »
That's a hard call to make. You have decide how or if to take that risk.

Chewbacca, tentatively, I'd like to see if a "Levitra supplement" can work to boost my partial cure. When you decide which item to try, I'll check with my medical resources to see if there's any negative interaction effect.
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 18:05:30 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2174 on: 28/11/2008 17:44:08 »
CHEWBACCA

Newbie "sgsg777" private messaged me and wants to join your group. He is in the midst of POIS and is feeling desperate. I don't know what else to tell him.

Maybe you can private message him? Moral support. I've already sent him a few reply-private-messages.

He also wants to try the salt-experiment. Right now probably because he's suffering POIS. Again not sure what to tell him.

See, that's my concern with "medically unsupervised". Something as seemingly harmless as salt could have a dangerous outcome for this newbie guy if Counterpoints' theory is right...I'd hate to be the guy to "recommend" that to him!
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 17:58:50 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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