The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6437682 times)

Offline hurray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2350 on: 12/12/2008 03:20:32 »
Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success :)

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls :)
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2351 on: 12/12/2008 03:31:25 »
It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

TO ALL: Per my previous post re Oxytocin: Direct administration can be dangerous, even fatal. From my pharmacologist-lawyer friend: "[demografx], oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:01:16 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2352 on: 12/12/2008 05:06:20 »
I heard that when you're in love, only at the beginning of the relation, your PEA (phenylethylamine) is increased a lot. Maybe it's a temporary relief, but I really hope it's not !
For me all aphrodisiacs have always been a relief followed by lack of desire. However with all the chinese herbs, who knows ! I wish you good luck Chewbacca. Please inform us on the new developments even if it's in ten years, it will be great! For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation. Some supplements of PEA exist, to be taken with selegiline ... never heard about this before. PEA is also increased with drugs to treat ADHD (ex. Adderall), and with the amino acid phenylalanine.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2353 on: 12/12/2008 19:31:23 »
MORE ABOUT OXYTOCIN

With my last cautionary note, I don't mean to suggest that we shut down discussions and/or exploration of oxytocin.

Fenugreek, for example, I think stimulates oxytocin and could turn out to be a good thing for many of us! And we may learn more as we go along about oxytocin's role in POIS and possibly oxytocin-synergists that could work well for us.

The cautionary note is meant for direct administration of oxytocin: great care/medical supervision needs to be used.

Also, the "deadly" note was more directed at people like me, i.e., those who use ED drugs such as Levitra. Also blood pressure-related complications I imagine can become serious for some people as well.

Articles such as the Psychology Today blog in my previous post promote oxytocin as a cure for shyness, and in my opinion, could create havoc if the doctor and/or patient aren't careful. And if oxytocin ever gets sold on the "black market" I can see serious problems there as well.
« Last Edit: 13/12/2008 02:00:05 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2354 on: 13/12/2008 00:56:39 »
For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation.
Just a correction, I know oxytocin always increases the link between two partners after years, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be active also at the beginning of the relation.
However PEA is involved in the initial euphoria at the beginning of a relation and could be a cure for pois.

Back to oxytocin, I don't remember if this has been mentionned before, it's interesting that it's formed with amino acids : Oxytocin is a peptide of nine amino acids (a nonapeptide). The sequence is cysteine - tyrosine - isoleucine - glutamine - asparagine - cysteine - proline - leucine - glycine from :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

Any problem with these parts of the brain could cause a lack of oxytocin:
Oxytocin receptors are expressed by neurons in many parts of the brain and spinal cord, including the amygdala, ventromedial hypothalamus, septum and brainstem.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2355 on: 13/12/2008 04:45:13 »
Martin, thank you very much for your extensive information and commentary about oxytocin!
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2356 on: 13/12/2008 07:21:16 »
Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success :)

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls :)



Hurray, this article backs up what you say about Chewbacca's falling-in-love hormones!
http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/lovesex/sciencelove.htm

My conclusion: we all need to buy Chewbacca's hormone inventory - immediately! Before it wears off! ;D
« Last Edit: 13/12/2008 07:36:39 by demografx »
 

Offline John21

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2357 on: 13/12/2008 10:28:53 »
Chewbacca, congratulations on your success!

Quote
Forthly, I have been seening a TCM doctor and taking herbal treatments for Kidney Chi deficeny. This helped a lot too.


What herbal treatments are you taking?
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2358 on: 13/12/2008 17:38:19 »
I hope that everyone is aware of B_Jim's amazing work on summarizing all the POIS cases reported here in the last 2 years - please see Page 11 here.
Look for MessageID 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149350#msg149009

B_Jim continually updates this summary and also has found other POIS cases on the internet and reports those as well!

B_Jim has posted very helpfully to these POIS sufferers, many who are in the same agonizing situation (or worse) as we are!

Thank you, B_Jim!
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2359 on: 13/12/2008 17:42:03 »
CELTIC SEA SALT

Have there been any more improvements with this salt?
 

Offline Counterpoints

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2360 on: 14/12/2008 06:53:51 »
I didn't notice any improvement with salt.  I used iodized salt.. but that should do something, if hyponatremia is the primary suspect.
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 06:55:27 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2361 on: 14/12/2008 22:06:07 »
OXYTOCIN FOR SHYNESS?

I originally posted above (MessageID: 210632) this Psychology Today article along with my warning note. Since that might have created confusion, I thought I would re-post it here.

I think Girlwind also posted about this "cure" for shyness interest.

"The Oxytocin Cure," recent Psychology Today blog:
http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-moral-molecule/200811/the-oxytocin-cure

Whether oxytocin is used for POIS...or for shyness...I suggest the same extreme caution!
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:14:22 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2362 on: 14/12/2008 22:22:55 »
COUNTERPOINTS

I don't think Counterpoints and his team, including Martin and Reuniting have been congratulated enough for their great efforts in the creation of the online POIS questionnaire system.

http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Besides being a great efficient organizer of the huge amount of POIS data on this site, this allows all participants to share POIS details and similarities/differences in symptoms and treatments.

Another great benefit is that it shows the outside world that, along with B_Jim's data, we have enough sophistication in data collection and reporting to make it a manageable effort to study us. Otherwise it could be a researcher's nightmare to sift through 100+ pages, 150 posters, 2,200+ posts.........and 5 billion theories :).
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:31:54 by demografx »
 

Offline hurray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2363 on: 15/12/2008 00:04:13 »
Very interesting articles about oxytocin, Demografx, thanks for posting them!
 

Offline Counterpoints

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2364 on: 15/12/2008 01:08:02 »
Thanks Demografx.  I am impressed by everyone in this thread! We are all making good progress: there is so much useful information available here. And your moderation is extremely valuable.
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 01:18:20 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Guthrie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2365 on: 15/12/2008 04:14:57 »
Hi all,

I have some good news to report!  I had been taking fenugreek for the past week, and then last night I took three fenugreek caspules (Solgar brand) about 1.5 hours before a release.  Today, I felt much better than I normally do.  My brain fog was mostly gone.  I still felt a little tired and somewhat 'strange' at certain points, but my overall attitude and feelings were much improved.  I felt pretty good throughout the whole day. 

I didn't take any fenugreek after the release last night or during the day today, so the improvement seems to be solely from taking the capsules beforehand.  Perhaps next time I'll try taking one after the release, or during the course of the day after.  I also hope to experiment with other variations (e.g. taking two capsules instead of three, or taking them 3 or 4 hours before the release).  Hopefully, the improvement that I experienced today will continue to reproduce itself!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 04:17:08 by Guthrie »
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2366 on: 15/12/2008 05:42:49 »
Guthrie, congratulations!

Your posting this I have no doubt will impart much hope to many of us.

Looking forward to the next Guthrie Installment!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 05:45:14 by demografx »
 

Offline girlwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2367 on: 15/12/2008 16:46:12 »
What is the effect of Relora and fenugreek on cortisol ?
Increase , decrease , regulation ?

According to the literature Relora is cortisol lowering. I don't know about Fenugreek.
 

Offline davep007

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2368 on: 15/12/2008 19:06:18 »
I believe I have suffered from POIS most of my life, when I was younger I would sleep up to 16 hours the next day after. Today I am 41 and I notice that the next day I need at least 10 to 12 hours and I am still exhausted instead of my normal 7 or 8. I too have hypothyroidism as I have seen in other postings. I recently saw a connection between a sudden attack of impotence and the armour thyroid and stopped it on my own to find out if it helped. I was pleased to say it did help a bunch. Last night my wife and I enjoyed ourselves and today I woke up at 11:00 am. 12 hours is mandatory the next sleep. When I was a teen it was up to 16 hours. In my 20's I would save it all for Sunday and then sleep the whole day because the career would not allow for the extra sleep. I have bags under my eyes like some one hit in me in both eyes, I find a direct connection between my fatigue and the "BIG O". I have been doing chelation for mercury poisoning and I think that it has helped my overall fatigue. I think that the mercury poisoning and the POIS combined is what really made me feel the huge fatigue. The chelation is reducing the fatigue from the mercury poisoning and the POIS is still there. I have never talked to a physician about POIS but I am sure after reading about it that I have it. I am going to experiment more with it, but I already knew it was happening because if I had something important to do the next day I would turn down the opportunity, something I really have a hard time doing. The desire is always high even for the last several months when I was shooting pool with a rope.

When I was in my 20's I had something that really messed me up with my spleen becoming enlarged and my liver too. It left me with a stone in the liver of 11mm in size. It took me nearly 20 years to get almost normal. For this reason I am some what in favor of thinking this whole POIS can be an autoimmune response. Any other complaints of spleen omegila with the POIS. I also had a gallbladder that stopped working for no apparent reason, no stones just up and stopped contracting.

 
 

Offline girlwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2369 on: 15/12/2008 21:54:19 »
I too have hypothyroidism as I have seen in other postings. I recently saw a connection between a sudden attack of
impotence and the armour thyroid and stopped it on my own to find out if it helped. I was pleased to say it did help
a bunch.

I'm probably the person who posted about having a hypothyroid issue.  Am I clear in understanding that Armour
thyroid was problematic for you and gave you impotence?  I have never heard this.  Usually Armour is the better
tolerated than the synthetic thyroid med. I'm currently looking into balancing all my hormones and want to know
more about your experiences with that.
 

Offline davep007

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2370 on: 15/12/2008 22:13:44 »
I was on the Synthroid for a couple of years and then a doctor I was seeing for Chelation for mercury poisoning changed me to Armour thyroid because I told him I could not stay awake in the afternoons and we split the dosage to a morning and afternoon dosage. I was not myself when starting the Synthroid 2 years ago and I was definitely not impressed on the armour. I have been off of it all for two months or 6 weeks and last night I won the gold with the wife. I am starting to get my fatigue figured out between the mercury poisoning/chelation and possibly POIS I may have my finger on it. I think the histamines may be the problem. I am going to look into them carefully. I currently am prescription free and fully intend to stay that way. It seems there are always tradeoffs with all the prescriptions. I personally did not like the trade. I prefer to not use a rope when shooting pool.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2371 on: 15/12/2008 22:26:28 »
davep007, welcome to The POIS Forum!

Filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video. A first!

Looking forward to more of your posts!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 23:49:50 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2372 on: 16/12/2008 04:38:47 »
I don't think Counterpoints and his team, including Martin and Reuniting have been congratulated enough for their great efforts in the creation of the online POIS questionnaire system.
Thanks Demo and the other! I agree since a long time that B_Jim is doing a wonderful synthesis work.

CELTIC SEA SALT

Have there been any more improvements with this salt?
I didn't try this salt, but when I was about 24 I was using salt with mild success (it was salt with sodium iodide not potassium iodide). I stopped this because if it was helping a bit with fatigue it made me feel impulsive and less peaceful/joy mentally. (Also I was not feeling safe about kidneys problems, dehydration... although perhaps more salt can make you drink more water to fight dehydration, maybe it depends the dose.)
When I'm sexually abstinent for a long time I must absolutely stop salt otherwise I'm angry in the day and I'm not sleeping well in the night(I move a lot). Stopping salt is very efficient in this case for me.

In chinese medicine sodium is considered yang (male energy), while potassium is considered yin. Also they say too much yin causes fatigue.

In homeopathy potassium is considered to cause post-coital exhaustion. As I said before, I have had very bad experiences with some homeopathic remedies (not all however) and I can't recommend them here, specially for nervous people.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2373 on: 16/12/2008 05:59:29 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."


« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 06:06:11 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2374 on: 16/12/2008 06:36:16 »
What is the effect of Relora and fenugreek on cortisol ?
Increase , decrease , regulation ?

According to the literature Relora is cortisol lowering. I don't know about Fenugreek.

I couldn't find anything on Fenugreek and cortisol.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2374 on: 16/12/2008 06:36:16 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length