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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6439841 times)

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2525 on: 28/12/2008 01:00:33 »
Great Discussion Today:
Hi Demografx--
I too have considered Prolactin to be a possible "culprit" in POIS. I also have thought that quickly elevated Cortisol with a steep decline in Dopamine may also be implicated. Even Epinephrine. The great helper neurotransmitters (besides Dopamine) of Serotonin and Gaba may also play (or not play as it were) their respective parts in the so called recovery phase. I do know from my past experience with Benzodiazepines (taken at very low, subtherapeutic doses)that when my Gaba was increased I felt a lot better all around and during POIS. Unfortunately or fortunately as one may look at such issues, these "better periods" only lasted two months. But at least I knew that Gaba was involved and that I did feel pretty good.
If my body were not to experience tolerance/withdrawal, who knows, I might still be on them? But alas, they don't last long, and I don't like meds anyhow. Ironically, I had more energy on the Benzos than I do without. POIS, or the recovery phase after orgasm, which seem to be very closely relate, is appearing to be very complex, because the nervous system is not only responsive to orgasm but to overall psycho-sexual arousal.
I am pleased to see that there are already some remedies discussed here that may improve the condition of some individuals:Relora, Fenugreek, Garlic, Levitra etc.
There may never be a total "cure", but I for one would be ecstatic if I could reduce my symptoms to "mild discomfort" lasting less than one day. This is my goal.
Regarding Abraham Lincoln, I think he did the best he could given the pathetic state of pharmacology in the mid 19th century. He probably went to drug stores or took some home remedies and made things worse, who knows. For sure, knowledge regarding effective medicine was very little then (in Euroamerican culture) compared to the incredible ethnobotanical knowledge of, let's say, the indigenous indians of California. I still find it very intriguing that some members here at times will actually escape POIS. I also find it fascinating that the intensity and recovery time varies significantly. Thus, I intend to focus on all aspects of my changing physiology: Behavioral (stress, exercise sleep etc), Psychological (attitudes, emotions), Nutritional/Dietary (Foods and Supplements), Immune System, Medical Interventions (prescription drugs if any), Other Professional Interventions (Chiropractor, Acupuncture etc.)and await great discoveries on this Forum!!!!!!!!!
Of course if I can be so lucky as to come upon anything helpful, I will so comment.
I may be making some progress now with my current supplements, but I think I will wait a few weeks before commenting. I am presently avoiding "O" if I can, out of necessity.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2526 on: 28/12/2008 04:24:34 »
Has any body read the book "science of orgasms" 
It talks a lot  how orgasms is centered on the brain.
It also focuses on dopamine, oxycotin, serotonin,prolactin as one of the main chemicals involved orgasms. 
The author mentioned gcortisol should not be byproduct of orgasm.
I recomend reading it since the big "O" seems determined to get us.

The book dose not mention anything similar to our situation other than cortisol can cause depression. 
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2527 on: 28/12/2008 04:53:10 »
  How Phospherous retention would increase from Urgasm/sexual stimulation I don't know.
It's always possible but I don't know how! I don't even know if it's a lack or an excess of it.
Phosphorus is probably involved in pois because I took a homeopathic remedy (phosphoric acid) and it was touching exactly the pois problem, specially in the mental symptoms, libido, depression, mental functions were definitely improved in pois. I was more able to communicate with other people. The side effect : not possible to fall asleep at night. I searched "phosphoric acid onanism" in google
Phosphoric-Acid
Debility from loss of animal fluids; bad effects of onanism; difficulties arising from rapid growth, grief, chagrin or care; great prostration, and nervous weakness; chronic diarrhoea.


I say it again for new people, I do not recommend to take homeopathic products if you're nervous. Not all are harmful but you'll probably have serious aggravations of your condition. That's my experience.


My current program of Herbs/enzymes has worked remarkably well in breaking up the "cement" and restoring muscle fleibility.  I am being as abstinent as possible to prevent any setbacks.  It seems as if by restoring the energy levels, the body begins to heal itself?   
I avoid Calcium supplements as the last time I took them I could barely stand up.
I know you took a lotof supplements at the same time. Do you have an idea which one was the best to achieve these results. It's great that you have some success !
 

Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2528 on: 28/12/2008 06:31:26 »
Hi Friends,
I see this site has grown a lot since I last visited.
My theory has always been that my problems are in large part due to excessive semen loss.
Background:
I was fine with ejaculation until I began taking VigRX- which caused an increase in semen production and heightened sexual intensity. After VigRX I began having lots of problems, mental and physical.

I found an interesting site which backs up my theory on semen loss:

http://www.semenloss.info/node/6

I have had an oriectomy (both testicles removed) and am on a low dose of testosterone.  There was considerable improvement after this.
I am pursuing further surgery to remove the seminal vesicles, reduce the prostate, and cauterize the ejaculatory ducts. The aim is to achieve a minimum of semen production, and dry ejaculation.
I have this surgery planned for next week, and will update you on the results.

 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2529 on: 28/12/2008 07:47:03 »
Animus,


>>>>My theory has always been that my problems are in large part due to excessive semen loss.

I like that theory. The Hindu's believe that, as did the pre-Reformation Christians.

Florence Nightengale, The Beguines, The Shakers, Van Gogh, Newton, Tolstoy, Gandhi. All these folks had some serious concerns around sex and decided to stop.
Mohammed Ali wasn't sexual for 6 weeks before a title fight.
My favorite story though  is that JH Kellogg invented corn flakes to help in dulling the tastes to minimize potential sexual behavior...LOL


A good night to all

Steve D.



 

Offline Coreman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2530 on: 28/12/2008 12:37:07 »
Hi all,

I'd like to tell you that I've found something that really helps for me!

Its name is Alpha 20C. Manufactured by Sunrider.

Effects: my brain fog terminated, my good mood returned, as well as my physical strength. Together with my sense of humour and association skills.   

Administration:  I take 2,5-5 grams (one pack) right after an evening orgasm, and 5 grams(one pack) - in two portions - the day after.

It may not be placebo, owing to the situation I found it.
The way I discovered it: I felt under the weather thanks to a flu.A good friend of mine suggested taking it, in order to strengthen my immune system against the virus. I started to take it. Afterwards, a POIS episode started, and I took 5 g in the office, as a matter of course, against flu! Remarkably, my brain fog wore off in 10 minutes. I began to see the world much more clearly. My physical strength came back, too. I was over the moon!

So I started to take it directly against POIS. It helps a LOT.
(Important note! I also take Clonazepam, Wellbutrin, Ca+Mg, and Vitamin C, not solely Alpha 20C)     

I wonder if it would be useful for others. If somebody else takes a try, please leave feedback)

Conclusion: no conclusions. However, the "immunostimulant" character is more than interesting.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Coreman
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2531 on: 28/12/2008 15:11:48 »
So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Demo - nothing needs to be said for your management and leadership of this 'team'.  It would be all to fitting if your medical results found the culprit.

Coreman - Nice going!  I'll have to try it.

I've be chugging along in life still using fenugreek.  Something I've noticed after much use is that fenugreek suprising manages my blood sugar levels well.  Blood sugar is a problem area in POIS and may be the reason why fenugreek works for me.  Over and out.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2008 15:15:10 by Limejuice »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2532 on: 28/12/2008 17:42:58 »
So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Demo - nothing needs to be said for your management and leadership of this 'team'.  It would be all to fitting if your medical results found the culprit.

Coreman - Nice going!  I'll have to try it.

I've be chugging along in life still using fenugreek.  Something I've noticed after much use is that fenugreek suprising manages my blood sugar levels well.  Blood sugar is a problem area in POIS and may be the reason why fenugreek works for me.  Over and out.

Limejuice, thanks for the summary/update...and for the nice compliment!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2533 on: 28/12/2008 18:15:17 »
SEMEN LOSS

Fascinating subject. I chased Taoist Master/Author Mantak Chia's "orgasmic sex w/o ejaculation" theories and methods for years, and they failed me. Maybe because his technique simply diverts semen to the bladder and is thereby still "lost"?

(Semen Loss theories - they are numerous - generally posit that when semen leaves man, it takes a portion of his own life, leading to POIS-like results. Conversely, semen retention builds strong, healthy, vigorous life.)

My two big questions
1. If the ancient wisdom of semen loss/retention is true, why doesn't everyone in the world suffer POIS?To my understanding, the opposite is true: many people experience rejuvenation following orgasmic sex.

2. Nocturnal emission. This is involuntary and still causes the agony of POIS? Could the "God", or the Universe - that of the ancients - who created this system be so cruel? Should we wear eye-blinders so that we will never be stimulated, even ever-so-slightly, during the day?
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 07:49:27 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2534 on: 28/12/2008 18:59:59 »
POIS, or the recovery phase after orgasm, which seem to be very closely related, is appearing to be very complex, because the nervous system is not only responsive to orgasm but to overall psycho-sexual arousal.

Hi, Underwater, interesting to see that some people here are affected by arousal. Thankfully, it doesn't affect me negatively.

There may never be a total "cure", but I for one would be ecstatic if I could reduce my symptoms to "mild discomfort" lasting less than one day. This is my goal.

For over 30 years, I gave up hope on that. But since this very active forum/thread began, I now believe it's possible for everyone.

Regarding Abraham Lincoln, I think he did the best he could given the pathetic state of pharmacology in the mid 19th century.

In my previous Lincoln quote, it seems to me that he believed willpower, not chemicals, was the way out of depression: "Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." (Emphasis mine) I agree, Underwater, it was pathetic back then; too bad we couldn't give the poor guy a retroactive-Prozac trial packet!

I intend to focus on all aspects of my changing physiology: Behavioral (stress, exercise sleep etc), Psychological (attitudes, emotions), Nutritional/Dietary (Foods and Supplements), Immune System, Medical Interventions (prescription drugs if any), Other Professional Interventions (Chiropractor, Acupuncture etc.)and await great discoveries on this Forum!!!!!!!!!
Of course if I can be so lucky as to come upon anything helpful, I will so comment.
I may be making some progress now with my current supplements, but I think I will wait a few weeks before commenting. I am presently avoiding "O" if I can, out of necessity.

Underwater, this is most comprehensive and inspirational! Best wishes!
« Last Edit: 28/12/2008 22:11:03 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2535 on: 28/12/2008 22:09:50 »
It seems i was wrong and Pyropeach was right but i need to read it and read it again to have a good analysis.

Have you seen Pyropeach lately? Since I didn't see him, I "took over" his job of emailing listmembers who want it Dr Waldinger's POIS Study of 2002. Hope he's well.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2536 on: 28/12/2008 22:36:09 »
ALPHA 20C/Sunrider

Very little I could find about the product, so I asked my pharmacology-lawyer friend, and will post his reply.

Meanwhile, I found this on a cancer forum about Sunrider. This is not to disparage Alpha 20C/Sunrider. I just feel obligated to report info on new POIS ideas when I see it.

from http://www.cancerforums.net/about10516.html
"What I don't like is that Sunrider's marketing scheme is basically a MLM [multi-level marketing]system where you either pay $30/yr to buy direct online or $140 one time to be a "distributor" and get a 40% discount ordering online. These products are also expensive. It costs me $400/mo for the products my wife and I use but I personally believe they are quality products I just wish they had a better way to go about marketing them. Basically I love the products but I'm not really interested in marketing them to others in the "Amway" fashion they try to employ."
« Last Edit: 28/12/2008 22:44:03 by demografx »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2537 on: 28/12/2008 23:12:02 »
srry about last post i was just testing to see if it works.   

On the Semen loss theory

I dont think is semen loss but probably orgasm because i had an orgasm without emission while i was sleeping. 
I knew this because of my dream and also waking up to check my surroudings for signs of emission, which there was none.
I was sure i had an orgasm when the previous day my daily life was superb i was socializing with ease, memory fine and thinking better than i expected but the next day all my nightmares returned. 
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2538 on: 28/12/2008 23:14:34 »
On Fenugreek
I used two tablets and got great night rest after orgasm.  I saw some improvements, brain fog dissapeared, tiredness improved , however socializaion and thinking problems where not changed at all.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2539 on: 29/12/2008 00:14:35 »
>>>>Hi, Underwater, interesting to see that some people here are affected by arousal. Thankfully, it doesn't affect me negatively.

I am affected by arousal, but not near to the degree that orgasm affects me.

I am affected by orgasm in that, last night, I experienced some seminal loss with my partner.
This morning I felt needy, hurt, sad, lonely (A meta-feeling I describe as grief, which is quite different from depression). I felt numbed, low self esteem, a tendency toward self pity, negativity, isolation and thinking I was different ( in a negative way).

I also felt physically exhausted but the overwhelming feeling was physical weakness.

I am able, through attitudinal shifts, to nurture myself through grief, and I did this morning, but the physical weakness is something different.
It's extremely common in therapy circles to ascribe these symptoms, after orgasm , to unresolved childhood abuse issues.
That's not my experience...

There is a neurochemical loss in my brain upon being orgasmic regardless of my emotional or physical wellness. I experienced that last night and reported it immediately to my partner. She, thankfully. has gotten to where she doesn't take POIS personally, and I am grateful.

I've gotten to where I accept that, this is fact, in me, and choose to look at it like money. I can save/invest money or spend it on vacation. Both are excellent activities, but I can't do both with the same money (read-sexual energy)

Thanks for the forum,

Steve D.





 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2540 on: 29/12/2008 02:48:44 »
I have recently finished my second bottle of Relora.  That means about two months.  During that time I have had an orgasm on average at least once a day. During that time I have also taken a Centrum Daily tablet every day.  The results:  I have not felt the effects of brain fog and axiety and total mental depression in two months.  However, I have noticed, as a single male who is not sexually active, that I still have emotional problems like loneliness and feeling down some days due to my own emotional problems.  These emotional problems were existant before I started taking Relora and are still there. 

Great news Tarkington.  I understand what you mean.  My POIS symptoms seem mostly independent of my emotional state.  (I say "mostly", because being in a good mood always tends to diminish other problems, slightly.  But sometimes I've been in a very bad mood, and still been completely free of POIS!).

How long did it take you to see dramatic improvement with Relora?  I have been taking Relora about 3x/day (250 mg) for 2 weeks.  I've also been taking about 300 mg of phosphytidylserine per day.  And 5 mg bisoprolol/day (beta-blocker).  Plus some B6, and Ashwaganda.  So a lot of cortisol reducing supplements!

 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2541 on: 29/12/2008 04:18:37 »
An interesting website from University of Maryland, talking about supplements and complementary medicine. http://www.umm.edu/altmed/
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2542 on: 29/12/2008 06:43:29 »
On the Semen loss theory

I dont think is semen loss but probably orgasm because i had an orgasm without emission while i was sleeping. 
I knew this because of my dream and also waking up to check my surroudings for signs of emission, which there was none.
I was sure i had an orgasm when the previous day my daily life was superb i was socializing with ease, memory fine and thinking better than i expected but the next day all my nightmares returned. 

CCc, this is very interesting. I experienced this and researched it and it was called "brain orgasm". But brain orgasms never led to POIS for me. But brain orgasms w/nocturnal emissions did.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2543 on: 29/12/2008 07:46:26 »
On Fenugreek
I used two tablets and got great night rest after orgasm.  I saw some improvements, brain fog dissapeared, tiredness improved , however socializaion and thinking problems where not changed at all.

Really appreciate the fenugreek update!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2544 on: 29/12/2008 07:57:39 »
I've also been taking about 300 mg of phosphytidylserine per day.  And 5 mg bisoprolol/day (beta-blocker).  Plus some B6, and Ashwaganda.  So a lot of cortisol reducing supplements!

Just curious, CP, besides Relora, how did you come up with this protocol to reduce cortisol? Thanks.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2545 on: 29/12/2008 08:04:19 »
Tried Relora for the first time four hours ago.

Felt headachy, heart palpitations, speedy, then sleepy, relaxed/sedated, libido diminution and a little druggy/high.

Steve D.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2546 on: 29/12/2008 08:14:05 »
Quote from: demografx on 28/10/2008 14:42:35

IMPORTANT: ...RELORA - PLEASE READ!
From my pharmacology-lawyer friend:

RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "

Limejuice (and others) - always a good idea to check out Relora - and other meds/supplements - with your healthcare professional advisor.

[I think the "higher blood pressure" note was directed at me since I take blood pressure meds -Demo]

Relora is also mentioned/discussed in these forum posts:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 08:21:23 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2547 on: 29/12/2008 08:23:55 »
Curcuma increases cortisol.

Thanks, B_Jim, I guess some people are low in cortisol?
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2548 on: 29/12/2008 14:15:27 »
Going to couples therapy again today. My partner is very challenged by the idea of letting go of me being orgasmic, however, a number of things in her life seem to be improving, as does my life, when I let go of the desire for me to be orgasmic. There seems to be something about intentionality here. Even in NE's. I used to feel bad about being orgasmic in my sleep, until I realized that being orgasmic, when not induced physically , is simply another feeling. I stopped trying to control it, and let myself feel that way, as I do all my feelings. I still had POIS symptoms but they were 10-15% as potent.
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2549 on: 29/12/2008 17:46:22 »
So much positive news!

tarkington - how did you do it? I know, I know.  Are you still taking Swanson brand three times a day?  I'm going to try my bottle of it starting now.

Well, I miraculously found this forum and knew that I was suffering from the same problems following orgasm.  Then I read the forum looking for anything to help.  Relora and seaweed were the suggestions that stood out to me. They seemed safe (I am not taking any other medications) because both were natural.  I never tried the seaweed because Relora worked so well. 

I started taking Relora for three days (three times a day) and had an orgasm with litle to no symptoms.  Following another recommendation, at the same time I started taking daily vitamins.  Since Relora does work so well for me, and Relora is a cortisol decreaser, I am assuming that the only issue I had after orgasm was a large increase in cortisol. And since my previous symptoms were insomnia (the same night), brain fog, mental anxiety, and just feeling terrible depression with no social skills (for three days), I assume that cortisol was the cause.  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.

Also since Fenugreek is supposed to increase cortisol and Relora decreases, perhaps either Relora or Fenugreek are the solution for the brain fog and mental problems.  It's only a matter of whether your body increases or decreases cortisol after orgasm.  If Fenugreek works then maybe its because immediately after orgasm those people have a large decrease in cortisol with the same effects as a large increase in cortisol (that doesn't make sense to me... how can a low amount have the same effects as a high amount) 

Just throwing out my opinion and thinking aloud... any ideas?
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2549 on: 29/12/2008 17:46:22 »

 

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