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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6448822 times)

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2625 on: 02/01/2009 01:32:15 »
i dont know if you guys notices this or not but in dr waldingers paper he mentioned oxytocin can impair cognitive skills when it is over produce and also it is one of the hormones produced after orgasm.

CCconfucius, could you copy and paste the section about oxytocin and cognitive impairment, for those of us who don't have immediate access to the article?
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 01:33:50 by Guthrie »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2626 on: 02/01/2009 06:25:19 »
My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste. But I eat rather healthy so if Gandhi was right then perhaps that makes chastity easier. It kind of makes sense to me in a psychological sense: lust could be a shapeshifter, morphing from food to sex. Perhaps there is also a biological reason why refusing excessive delicacies from the supermarket might reduce lust.
John, in my case food affects my ability to stay chaste and I definitely feel it's not psychological. However I can say this is a lot less true with the age. Shellfish food is the most able to cause me this. By the way I think it's prohibed by the bible to eat shellfish, I don't know why, but it's ok for fish thus probably providing just enough iodine.

Underwater, you may look to the form for our recovery experiences. Insomnia doesn't fade after one day for me ...

Happy new year to all! Hopefully we'll be able in 2009 to break a part of the security code!
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:46:10 by martin88 »
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2627 on: 02/01/2009 07:09:57 »
My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste. But I eat rather healthy so if Gandhi was right then perhaps that makes chastity easier. It kind of makes sense to me in a psychological sense: lust could be a shapeshifter, morphing from food to sex. Perhaps there is also a biological reason why refusing excessive delicacies from the supermarket might reduce lust.
John, in my case food affects my ability to stay chaste and I definitely feel it's not psychological. However I can say this is a lot less true with the age.

Martin,

Glad to hear that. That's my experience, too. I had two opportunities to  be sexual today and I chose chastity, which, for me, is no genital contact. I feel good about that. POIS slaughters me at an orgasmic level, but I get nicked earlier on in the process and I didn't today. If I stop it at a pre-genital  level, it does become psychological for me in that afterward I feel more high self esteem . When I'm orgasmic I don't even get to consider self esteem issues because, at that point, I'm so disconnected from myself physically/neurochemically.
 
On another note, I told my acupuncturist about POIS yesterday and about Relora, Feenugreek and Tumeric. He made me up a batch of mixed herbs to brew into a tea. Had a cup of it tonight and I feel pretty healthy actually. I was able to run three miles instead of two today, drank a 6 ounce and a 7 ounce glass of wheat grass...and , hey, I was able to do some work today! So POIS didn't catch me today, just for today...Yay

 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2628 on: 02/01/2009 08:24:32 »
Heres a government sponsored website that shows studies on prolactin and post-orgasmic.

Also check out the links on the right side

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16095799&log$=activity


Limejuice,

From the 'quote on the right'..."This series of studies clearly demonstrated that plasma prolactin (PRL) concentrations are substantially increased for over 1h following orgasm (masturbation and coitus conditions) in both men and women, but unchanged following sexual arousal without orgasm"

This suggests to me the possibility of  an allergic reaction to prolactin in POIS sufferers...and the multi-day refractory period time would then make sense.

More importantly, that if it is true that POIS does incur incrementally, prior to orgasm, in increasing intensity, that, according to this study, there is definitively an additional culprit, as prolactin clearly plays no part in non-orgasmic sexuality

 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2629 on: 02/01/2009 15:41:18 »
I just had FIFTEEN TUBES of blood drawn a couple days ago, to test (among a long list of other things)
all the hormones known to human kind.   :)  The hormone tests will be done at some special labs and the results
won't be back for several weeks. It will be interesting to see what new insights, if any, will come of this. Since it
cost me $2000 out of pocket, there better be SOMETHING worthwhile to be had from all the blood that was sucked
out of me. I am most curious about the cortisol and thyroid test levels, as I've been taking supplements regularly
for both. I feel (from a subjective/experiencial place) that they are better. Maybe the tests will agree with that.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 15:48:42 by girlwind »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2630 on: 02/01/2009 16:29:11 »
Confucius, it's great for your email ! At least we are sure they were not shocked by our problems with orgasm, like other organisms could eventually be if they were not accustomed to letters about sex. Perhaps it would be a good thing not to initially mention about orgasmic problems when we'll send letters in the future.

I just had FIFTEEN TUBES of blood drawn a couple days ago, to test (among a long list of other things)
all the hormones known to human kind.   :)  The hormone tests will be done at some special labs and the results
won't be back for several weeks. It will be interesting to see what new insights, if any, will come of this.
Thanks Girlwind to share this with us. I really hope something will come out. I know you're more concerned with CFS, but were these tests done in the middle of a pois episode ?
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:48:40 by martin88 »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2631 on: 02/01/2009 16:31:15 »
Girlwind--
Is your assumption that your Cortisol Levels need to come down?
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2632 on: 02/01/2009 16:46:32 »
Thanks Girlwind to share this with us. I really hope something will come out of this. I know you're more concerned with CFS,
but were these tests done in the middle of a pois episode ?

The tests weren't done in POIS. My POIS symptoms have been generally better since I started boosting my thyroid,
so that's one of my big curiosities with the results. Since I know my symptoms are better, will my thyroid tests show that
to be quantatively true? There are other hormones that I want to check as well, and I am DEFINITELY covering ALL of them.

Girlwind-- Is your assumption that your Cortisol Levels need to come down?

My CORTISOL levels have been CHRONICALLY TOO LOW. They have come up a bit over time, and last time I checked
they were just under optimal. I'm also testing DHEA-S and testosterone, which also give a clue as to the functioning of the
adrenals, as does the cortisol.

« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:13:06 by girlwind »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2633 on: 02/01/2009 17:30:56 »
first two paragraph result of hormone testing on two cases
third paragraph contains statement about oxytocin. 

Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular
insufficiency; total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref. 8.334 nmo1/1) , free
testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref.: 45108 pmo1/1), dehydroxytestosterone 0.62
nmo1/1 (ref: 0.903.70 nmo1/1), LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.512.0), FSH 25.8 U/1
(ref: 2.08.0), prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75275 mU/1).


Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular
insufficiency; total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref. 8.334 nmo1/1) , free
testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref.: 45108 pmo1/1), dehydroxytestosterone 0.62
nmo1/1 (ref: 0.903.70 nmo1/1), LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.512.0), FSH 25.8 U/1
(ref: 2.08.0), prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75275 mU/1).


Emphasizing the severity of clinical features, we propose to call this
cluster of symptoms post-orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS). POIS typically is
a postsexual disorder, suggesting that a factor associated with ejaculation or
orgasm serves as a trigger for the induction of a cascade of biological reactions.
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after
orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased (Carmichael,
Warburton, Dixen, & Davidson, 1994; Exton et al., 2000). To our best knowledge,
there are no reports in the literature that suggest that these hormones
Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome 255
are related to flulike symptoms. However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988). We assume that a
still-undiscovered factor or mechanism associated with ejaculation or orgasm
triggers a cascade of immunological reactions that culminate in the
previously described flulike symptoms.

 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2634 on: 02/01/2009 18:40:33 »
However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988).

Interesting!  I googled the article, and also came across another, more recent one, which also indicates that oxytocin can interfere with memory:

Selective amnesic effects of oxytocin on human memory.
Heinrichs M, Meinlschmidt G, Wippich W, Ehlert U, Hellhammer DH.
Physiol Behav. 2004 Oct 30;83(1):31-8.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15501488
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2635 on: 02/01/2009 20:22:55 »
Hi Steve!  Interesting theray.  I'll by it because I can't shoot it down - it makes good sense.  The only red flag is that women create lots of prolactin when breast feeding.  Hmm, are there any women here that have/do breast feed - do you get POIS when breast feeding?  I'd hate to just point at Girlwind but I think she's the only woman here.

Also Girlwind your tests are amazing.  From my understanding that the most comprehensive diversity of testing in thread history.  I can't wait to see results.

Between you and Demo my anixiety levels peaking - peaking in a good way.
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2636 on: 02/01/2009 20:32:42 »
Relora experiementing -

I've taken relora a couple days and will share my results (Demo style).

Day 0:
- Take 2 relora and hour prior to orgasm
- Release
- Take another relora an hour later - I feel extreme relaxation
- Two hours later I have a POUNDING headache.  I never get headaches. It was so intense that I began sweating profusely, ran to the shower and sprayed my head with cold water.  It was pretty aweful.  20 minutes later it finally went away.
- Four hours after release no POIS symptoms

Day 1
- No POIS symptoms...I mean absolutely none.  This is bazzar as heck.  That headache yesterday was redic.  What will tomorrow hold?
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2637 on: 02/01/2009 20:39:57 »
Hi Steve!  Interesting theray.  I'll by it because I can't shoot it down - it makes good sense.  The only red flag is that women create lots of prolactin when breast feeding.  Hmm, are there any women here that have/do breast feed - do you get POIS when breast feeding?  I'd hate to just point at Girlwind but I think she's the only woman here.

Also Girlwind your tests are amazing.  From my understanding that the most comprehensive diversity of testing in thread history.  I can't wait to see results.

Between you and Demo my anixiety levels peaking - peaking in a good way.

Hi Limejuice--I don't have any children, hence no breast feeding in my history. None of the women I can think
of have POIS, but I will ask around to do those who've had children and see what their experiences were.

And definitely, this is ABSOLUTELY THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE SET OF BLOOD TESTS I've ever had. My vein
hurt for three days afterward! I really do hope there is SOMETHING to be gained from it.
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2638 on: 02/01/2009 20:56:06 »
FENUGREEK UPDATE

On Wednesday night, I took 6 Solgar fenugreek capsules 2.5 hours before release.  For the previous few releases, I had taken 3 capsules.  During the day on Thursday, I felt better than I did the previous few times.  The brain fog was still decreased, and in addition, there was even less mental, physical, and emotional sluggishness.  It still wasn't a 'complete cure', but it seems that the doubled-dosage had a positive effect.

Next time, I may try taking the capsules after release, rather than before, to try to determine whether the fenugreek has a corrective or merely preventative effect on my POIS symptoms.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2639 on: 02/01/2009 21:06:50 »
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after
orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased (Carmichael,
Warburton, Dixen, & Davidson, 1994; Exton et al., 2000).


CCconfucious

This would explain why there are losses prior to orgasm, if the culprit is prolactin, although the findings appear to be in conflict with the previously mentioned study.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2640 on: 02/01/2009 21:37:22 »
FENUGREEK UPDATE
On Wednesday night, I took 6 Solgar fenugreek capsules 2.5 hours before release. 
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2641 on: 02/01/2009 23:00:21 »
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract


Martin88, you are right that I (and the rest of us) should be careful with the fenugreek (as well as the other remedies we are trying).  However, Solgar's own page on Fenugreek says the following:

Quote
How much is usually taken?

Due to the somewhat bitter taste of fenugreek seeds, de-bitterized seeds or encapsulated products are preferred. The German Commission E monograph recommends a daily intake of 6 grams.(footnote 11) The typical range of intake for diabetes or cholesterol-lowering is 530 grams with each meal or 1590 grams all at once with one meal. As a tincture, 34 ml of fenugreek can be taken up to three times per day.
http://www.solgar.co.uk/healthnotes/healthnotes.asp?org=boots&ContentID=2090006

So, they seems to be a pretty wide range, up to 90 grams (= 180 capsules!) a day.  The low end, 6 grams per day, would still be equivalent to about 12 Solgar fenugreek capsules.

I guess the question would still be: how much fenugreek does it take to cause hypokalemia?  I didn't see any sources on that issue.  Are 6 capsules per day problematic?  3 capsules? 1 capsule?  Presumably, fenugreek in excess is not good, but what should we count as 'excess'? 
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2642 on: 02/01/2009 23:08:13 »
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

"Hypokalemia refers to the condition in which the concentration of potassium in the blood is low." (Wikipedia)
Maybe one way to insure that potassium levels stay at an optimal range would be to take a mineral supplement with the fenugreek.
If magnesium levels in the blood drop, that can also cause hypokalemia. So probably a mineral supplement which includes all the
major electrolytes and some of the trace minerals might be a good thing. Or... you could eat bananas with your fenugreek.   :)

 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2643 on: 02/01/2009 23:31:44 »
Dear Ms. blank,
This is the first I have heard of this condition.  Do you have any insight
into factors that initiate the condition?  Is there any common theme among
the sufferers?  At what age(s) does it start?
Does it ever clear up spontaneously?  Once it starts does orgasm from any
type of stimulation (self or other) produce the same set of symptoms?
Please let me know.
Barry R. Komisaruk, Ph.D.

HI every one second response from other author, can you please help me answer those questions.

 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2644 on: 02/01/2009 23:40:18 »
My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.   
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2645 on: 02/01/2009 23:56:40 »
My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.  

CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2646 on: 03/01/2009 00:00:05 »
what should we count as 'excess'? 
Perhaps you're right Guthrie, I really don't know, but personally I'd count as excess what solgar says on the label of their product since this information probably come here for a reason.

Note that the product you're taking does not contain only fenugreek powder but also an extract, so this means probably "more concentrate" ? I'm in the unknown but I just wanted to point this out.
http://www.solgar.com/labels/imgviewer.aspx?vitamin=/getattachment/79add47b-e750-4f98-8dd1-ce26853db3a8/FP-Fenugreek-Vegetable-Capsules.aspx&swf_width=469&swf_height=155


Girlwind if the good effect for pois is because potassium is slightly reduced then maybe it won't work to cure pois !

Bananas is a good source of potassium. You can also take dried apricots which are a lot more rich in potassium.
But maybe it won't make a difference if potassium is not absorbed at a cellular level because of fenugreek..
« Last Edit: 03/01/2009 01:03:20 by martin88 »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2647 on: 03/01/2009 00:14:49 »
Confucius, it's great for your email ! At least we are sure they were not shocked by our problems with orgasm, like other organisms could eventually be if they were not accustomed to letters about sex. Perhaps it would be a good thing not to initially mention about orgasmic problems when we'll send letters in the future.

Martin else are we to get interest if the problems are not mentioned, these two authors wrote a book on orgasm so i was not really expecting any shock.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2648 on: 03/01/2009 00:32:35 »
CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...

I guess we can test that by continuing usage of fenugreek and see effects.

I will use three fenugreek pills a day untill recovery time and post its effects.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2649 on: 03/01/2009 00:44:04 »
I thought oxytocin was also a main chemical in breast feeding.
 
Oxytocin is also not suppose to cross he brain blood barrier but why does the brain has neurons for it.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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