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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6429880 times)

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2650 on: 03/01/2009 01:02:46 »
[I have updated my precedent post about potassium and bananas.]

Martin else are we to get interest if the problems are not mentioned, these two authors wrote a book on orgasm so i was not really expecting any shock.
Sometimes secretaries delete emails for nothing...
In the first email, perhaps we can initially ask for a direct contact with a doctor or whatever person in charge about "a medical condition" or "new disease".. Then it could be important to mention the name of this person in the second email since people are more receptive to emails when they read their name.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2651 on: 03/01/2009 01:17:23 »
ONSET OF POIS

I have a question. Did anyone start to experience POIS only years after puberty? My reason for asking is that I can't really recall when POIS started for me. As we know, sometimes it takes a few years to catch on to the fact that the POIS sysmptoms are due to orgasm. The symptoms may have also been delayed for a day or so, which contributes to the difficulty of connecting orgasm to the result.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2652 on: 03/01/2009 02:10:49 »
Guthrie, independently of what I said before I want to add that your experience reported here is really helpful for us, I'm grateful for this.

Demo, my pois came in the middle of the puberty, at 15. I suppose puberty was started before the first ejaculation at 12-13.
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2653 on: 03/01/2009 02:17:24 »
what should we count as 'excess'? 
Perhaps you're right Guthrie, I really don't know, but personally I'd count as excess what solgar says on the label of their product since this information probably come here for a reason.

Note that the product you're taking does not contain only fenugreek powder but also an extract, so this means probably "more concentrate" ? I'm in the unknown but I just wanted to point this out.

Martin88, I agree with you that the fenugreek extract is probably more concetrated, so that is something to take into account.

However, my sense of the recommended dose on the label, and for many of these herbal supplements in general, does not refer to the maximum dose possible before reaching "in excess."  Rather, I think that it often means "the amount that is thought to be effective in most cases"--but that does not mean that taking more is necessarily harmful.  For some things, it may be necessary to take more than the average recommended amount--as long as it not known to be dangerous.  That is, there may be a difference between the amount geared towards a general health supplement, and the amount for targeting particular illnesses or imabalances.

But, that still doesn't tell us what the maximum safe amount is for fenugreek in particular...so I don't know what to say.

 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2654 on: 03/01/2009 02:19:38 »
Guthrie, independently of what I said before I want to add that your experience reported here is really helpful for us, I'm grateful for this.

Thanks for the encouragement.  I do also appreciate your watchfulness in pointing out potential health dangers.
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2655 on: 03/01/2009 03:24:41 »
Demo---
Onset of POIS for me was most likely around age 40, however I may have sensed some very subtle symptoms considerably earlier perhaps around age 26/27. I vaguely recall feeling strange at times in my late 20's. One thing I am certain of is that when I began serious long distance running and yoga (1977) I felt fantastic. This feeling lasted well into the late 80's. Without question my POIS clearly emerged during a very stressful period and has remained (last 20 years). For me personally, I've always felt (last 10 yrs.) that I lacked the balancing/inhibitory neurotransmitters to counteract the "so called" excitatory hormones & neurotransmitters. I still hold to this viewpoint.
 

Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2656 on: 03/01/2009 04:30:17 »
Relora experiementing -

I've taken relora a couple days and will share my results (Demo style).

Day 0:
- Take 2 relora and hour prior to orgasm
- Release
- Take another relora an hour later - I feel extreme relaxation
- Two hours later I have a POUNDING headache.  I never get headaches. It was so intense that I began sweating profusely, ran to the shower and sprayed my head with cold water.  It was pretty aweful.  20 minutes later it finally went away.
- Four hours after release no POIS symptoms

Day 1
- No POIS symptoms...I mean absolutely none.  This is bazzar as heck.  That headache yesterday was redic.  What will tomorrow hold?

That is amazing that Relora removed your symptoms.  But the headache doesn't seem healthy.  Let us know if the headaches continue.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2657 on: 03/01/2009 06:52:24 »
ONSET OF POIS

I have a question. Did anyone start to experience POIS only years after puberty? My reason for asking is that I can't really recall when POIS started for me. As we know, sometimes it takes a few years to catch on to the fact that the POIS symptoms are due to orgasm.

Demo,

I knew the moment I was orgasmic, at 16,  with masturbating , that there was something seriously wrong with the way I reacted to masturbation. That persisted, in varying degrees, until I stopped masturbating 18 1/2 years ago.

Orgasmic sexuality with a partner, though, was completely okay from 16 until 36. That' the first time I noticed POIS for what it was really was, for me..."A decline from the level of health that only chastity brings, for me, brought about conclusively by orgasm, however, also, with health incrementally diminishing, inversely proportionally, to the increasing levels of pre-orgasmic sexual activities."

Dat's about it...


 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2658 on: 03/01/2009 07:05:15 »
Demo---
Onset of POIS for me was most likely around age 40. One thing I am certain of is that when I began serious long distance running and yoga (1977) I felt fantastic.

Underwater,

I am taking this to the bank. What's working for me is to negotiate no genital contact with my partner, one day at a time, and then work out very,very hard.
Today I did 35" of yoga and core work and 35" of strength/endurance on machines, yesterday I ran 3 miles, Wednesday one hour of yoga/core/ weights and Tuesday 90 minutes of swimming!!!

I feel like my life is coming back.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2659 on: 03/01/2009 07:25:34 »
However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988).

Interesting!  I googled the article, and also came across another, more recent one, which also indicates that oxytocin can interfere with memory:

Guthrie,

This makes sense to me. When I'm in a POIS episode I find it hard to reach for my vocabulary and sometimes I find it difficult to pronounce words

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2660 on: 03/01/2009 07:57:07 »
MRI OF THE BRAIN: UPDATE

In search of hormonal culprits for POIS, a 400% higher than average prolactin count was found in my bloodwork, so my endocrinologist requested an MRI of the brain. His email to me today:

"Your MRI revealed a partially empty sella - the part of the base of the cranium where the piuitary sits. There is no evidence of a tumor. Empty sellas may not be associated with any pathology. Make an appointment - and be prepared for more blood testing."

Needless to say, I'm grateful for no tumor.

Prolactin has become an interesting topic lately for me, since a friend who is a PhD biophysicist and an HIV/AIDS pioneer suspects prolactin - and "IL-6" - is a key hormone that is implicated in POIS because of the flulike symptoms as Dr Waldinger, the POIS pioneer, found. I'm still trying to decide if my symptoms are "flulike". Wipeout fatigue and brain fog can sometimes feel flulike (without a runny nose!) Here's his email to me today (before the endo email):

" Hi, [Demo],

This is pretty interesting.  Please do keep me posted on the MRI results. 

In addition to the more familiar role in stimulating milk production, there is also a correlation between high prolactin levels, inflammation and lupus erythematosus.  There may be a chicken-and-egg question here, given that high levels of inflammatory cytokines (including IL-6) stimulate high levels of prolactin production.  Do high levels of IL-6, for example, produce both, the flu-like symptoms and the high prolactin? 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11503136?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

http://www.actabiomedica.it/data/2007/supp_1_2007/chuang.pdf

http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar05nov-14.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W8V-4MG6JXX-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=87f542042726d68ef791866ccd680235

Hyperprolactinemia (high prolactin levels) can be treated with Parlodel (aka bromocriptine) under the appropriate circumstances.  This dopamine receptor agonist is not a benign drug, so you should be quite insistent in fully understanding the risk/reward profile of your situation should it come up in discussions with your physician.  This is a particularly relevant question if the prolactin levels are an “effect” as opposed to a “cause”. 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR600265

http://www.csmc.edu/pdf/BROMOCRIPTINEANDCABERGOLINE9162002.pdf

I hope you and yours have had a happy holiday season, and that your new year will be healthy and productive.

All the best,
[name] "
« Last Edit: 03/01/2009 08:49:44 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2661 on: 03/01/2009 08:03:52 »
OXYTOCIN

Some of you may find some earlier oxytocin discussions here at the POIS forum interesting:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oxytocin+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com
 

Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2662 on: 03/01/2009 11:01:24 »
Guthrie,
This makes sense to me. When I'm in a POIS episode I find it hard to reach for my vocabulary and sometimes I find it difficult to pronounce words
I too find it hard to find words and I often mispronounce words during a POIS episode. 


As for my success with Relora...it is only partial.  Though it significantly reduces the stress and anxiety components, I still struggle with cognition and memory - especially short term memory - its like my IQ drops to zero.  Only deep sleep has accelerated my recovery process, which, as I read, is responsible for resetting chemical levels. 

Demo - I look forward to your MRI results as my own MRI revealed a small, 4 mm growth on my pituitary which may be responsible for my slightly elevated prolactin levels.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2663 on: 03/01/2009 14:25:36 »
The word lupus is frightening. I prefer to think that many autoimmune disorders works almost the same way.

Jim,

I find the word lupus frightening, too...and sobering. I remember in Gandhi's work his observation that all types of diseases stem from misusing sex. I could hear that because it didn't feel like he was moralizing but simply stating factual biophysical information. Makes me want to work harder at a real solution to POIS.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2664 on: 03/01/2009 14:28:08 »
Demo, I'm glad to hear there is no tumor! Hopefully the "partially empty sella" finding will lead to some possibilities for you.

Empty Sella Syndrome

 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2665 on: 03/01/2009 17:01:30 »
Steve--
Do you have a set time that you do your exercises?
I always swim in AM between 8-11----------------
Do you have circadian rhythms that affect you?
I generally go into a dysphoric swoon in the mid afternoon for 2-3 hours--
Do you feel your chemistry? I actually feel the onset and fading of moods brought on by chemical changes--Often when I get nocturnal panic attacks I can almost feel the switch go off--I probably should work out twice a day,AM and late afternoon--
However, I agree with you that the behavioral and biochemical are two sides of the same coin---For me, when I have been in a state of equanimity, my symptoms of all afflictions (anxiety & POIS) have diminished. Endorphins have been the big helpers for me. Do you ever get physically tense? When I'm going thru a tense part of the day, my muscles often tighten in the loser back etc.--This follows quickly with nervousness and mild depression and chills---This is all made worse if I didn't work out that day-------It generally fades off after a couple of hours---POIS makes the whole thing worse for 3/4 days----This last year I've tried to stay away from POIS like the plague--
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2666 on: 03/01/2009 19:45:51 »
Do you feel your chemistry? I actually feel the onset and fading of moods brought on by chemical changes--Often when I get nocturnal
panic attacks I can almost feel the switch go off--I probably should work out twice a day,AM and late afternoon--
However, I agree with you that the behavioral and biochemical are two sides of the same coin---For me, when I have been in a state of equanimity, my symptoms of all afflictions (anxiety & POIS) have diminished. Endorphins have been the big helpers for me. Do you ever get physically tense? When I'm going thru a tense part of the day, my muscles often tighten in the loser back etc.--This follows quickly with nervousness and mild depression and chills---This is all made worse if I didn't work out that day-------It generally fades off after a couple of hours---POIS makes the whole thing worse for 3/4 days----This last year I've tried to stay away from POIS like the plague--


Underwater--
I feel some similar symptoms, which I attribute to having CFS. This affects my brain chemistry, especially during
"viral episodes," and makes me feel that mentally skewed combination of slo-mo combined with overly amped.
I describe it to my acupuncturist as "going as fast I can in slow motion." The endorphins definitely feel diminished.
What I notice is that this happens when my energy is REALLY low. So even though I might be feeling hyper, it's a
fake hyper, with no real energy behind it. I can't work out vigorously when I have this happening, as I just deplete
myself more. I can only slowly ease into exercise with ten minutes of yoga or walking, 2-3 times a day. Overdoing
does me in, but total inactivity doesn't help either. Sexual stimulation, even without orgasm, feels aggravating to
the overall state of body/mind at times like that, so I won't even consider going there.

 

Offline Bizzy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2667 on: 03/01/2009 20:51:24 »
Demo, I'm glad to hear there is no tumor! Hopefully the "partially empty sella" finding will lead to some possibilities for you.

Empty Sella Syndrome


Yes, the possibility that part of his brain has been eaten away by this condition. Sorry not trying to scare you demografx but what do you think ?

And Hi....i havent been here for a while but am amazed at you people....keep going....About a year ago I wrote quite a few articles suggesting a pituitary-hypothalmic problem as being the root cause for this condition....a year later you guys have chased the problem to this area....thats interesting....did you know that the depression linked hormone CRF - corticotropin stimulating hormone is also made by the same neurones that make oxytocin....if those neurones are not making the 'love hormone' oxytocin then they might be making CRF which has the opposite effect and can cause brain shrinkage by persistantly raising cortisol.
« Last Edit: 03/01/2009 21:01:45 by Bizzy »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2668 on: 04/01/2009 01:19:51 »
Girlwind--
It seems like we may have similar issues. If I can generalize, you have CFS and POIS.
I have GAD and POIS. It seems like we both need to treat the former issues first (CFS and GAD). I've had GAD my entire adult life, but I have successfully dealt with it 90% of the time. Over the last 10 years, POIS, as a secondary concern has increased its negative effect on my entire nervous system (thus avoidance if I can). I can trace its source to behavioral/psychological triggers with corresponding biochemical manifestations. In this forum I have not discussed all psychological concerns as these are only personally relevant, but nevertheless critical. When I have had, out of necessity, to use small doses of Benzodiazepines, this had been a choice.
Unfortunately, they work great for only a certain period of time and then STOP suddenly. At least I know that GABA (for whatever it's woth) nearly cures me when it is increased. I only use this as a last resort. Right now, I am in a drug free period looking to rid my GAD by use of supplements, diet changes, exercise changes etc. By significantly reducing GAD, my working assumption is that it will reduce POIS. I think you used the term "amped". I cannot get hyper excitable, as this messes everything up. Sexual excitation for me, unfortunately, is just another nervous sytem overload. Orgasm just takes it to precipice and "over". I am optimistic, however, that I will find ways to diminish GAD and POIS and return to better times that fortunately for me have always come. However at 60, I am a little nervous.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2669 on: 04/01/2009 02:33:08 »
Again a major finding Demografx, however I'm not so happy to hear about this. I wouldn't have expected such a problem. Is it really the cause for pois, the treatment will say it if any.
Your pois started a long time ago, do you have this since the beginning... What is amazing is that your usual doctors didn't find this. It was a simple blood test. You had to ask yourself for a prolactin test! I can't believe this. Good luck for the next steps.

Pyropeach, your experience is also disconcerting. You know you have a small tumor and you're still here for a solution. Is there a suggested treatment ? (Maybe I should read your precedent posts)
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 17:01:55 by martin88 »
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2670 on: 04/01/2009 06:44:26 »
Hey guys,

Been reading the links and pondering prolactin...Dismal stuff, Lupus, Arthritis, etc.

I swam 70 laps in 95" and am not being orgasmically sexual and feel absolutely no POIS symptoms...

That's going to have to do for this day...


PS also my partner and I tried a cup of Fenugreek tea tonight. Bitter, but, not too.

Wishing wellness to all tonight
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2671 on: 04/01/2009 08:51:47 »
whoa demographx you are on fire with this prolactin, good going.
Do you know its half life in body am wondering if that can be correlated to the how long POIS las.
 

Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2672 on: 04/01/2009 12:50:06 »
RE: Demografix and MRI
I don’t know whether to say sorry to hear about the pituitary diagnosis or not. Its not really good news but I feel a diagnosis regarding the pituitary will benefit your wellbeing now as regards the prolactin. No tumor was good news though. In a past post of mine I mentioned a pituitary problem. Like you its ESS, with mine being only 10% normal size. Its a bit unusual that with a reduced pituitary mass there is an elevated hormone output. I had my prolactin levels measured for the first time this year and it came back normal (day after orgasm). I would have liked to have had it measured years ago when my POIS was worse but the test was outright dismissed by my doctor then. In my case I have abnormal low GH, LH, DHEA, with low testosterone, and moderately elevated ACTH.

ESS can be congenital, result from birth delivery, viral damage, car accident/head trauma. For some people there is no noticeable deteriation in their health, and consequently many endos don’t make a big deal over it and just treat hormonal deficiencies if they occur, though in my case getting script for growth hormone is not so easy.

I mentioned that I would post about POIS on a pituitary site after reading about some guy having pituitary disorder (think it was ESS) and suffering from pois. Well, my post had 146 views but no responses, so unfortunately I can’t add any weight to our case on that front.

Reducing your prolactin levels should result in boost to your libido which I don’t know if you see that as a good thing. You can probably also do away with the levitra too.
I could be wrong but I thought I remember reading that you mentioned having 'wet dreams'. I haven't had them for years and it surprises me that you could still have them with high PRL levels.

Also in your recent post you mention your PHD friend also suspecting high IL-6 as possibly being implicated in pois. I can't remember my IL-6 readings but I do know I have high levels of cytokines from chronic infection/s. The high cytokine theory would fit with the people who have CFS or auto-immune conditions on this forum, but I dont know if it would account for many others. I personally think that some of the people on this forum who have been benefiting from special diet (no lactose, recudeced carbs/grains, no sugars, no alcohol) plus also benefiting from taking garlic could in fact be suffering from bowel infection/bacterial overgrowth.

I'm not sure if your PHD friend works directly with HIV/AIDS patients but I would be interested to know if people with HIV infection suffer from pois?
 

Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2673 on: 04/01/2009 15:54:57 »
I'm not sure if your PHD friend works directly with HIV/AIDS patients but I would be interested to know if people with HIV infection suffer from pois?

A while ago, when I was first looking for other POIS cases online, I came across these links after googling "fatigue after orgasm":
http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Fatigue/Archive/FatigueCause/Q90074.html
http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Fatigue/Archive/FatigueCause/Q166244.html
http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Fatigue/Archive/Sleep/Q166355.html

They seem to be from an HIV/AIDS website.  So, perhaps that could add to the possibility that POIS is related to an autoimmune reaction.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2674 on: 04/01/2009 23:56:42 »
Demografx,

>>>We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

I feel sad , but a little envious, of the clarity you experience in the consistency of your experience of the illness.  I have, unfortunately, let  the 10-15% 'free passes' I have experienced on being orgasmic lead me to 'countless vain attempts' to try to 'control and enjoy' this illness.

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?

Steve D.


Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.

Demo,

I've been thinking 'gingerly' about your post for nearly two weeks. My comfort level time in chastity is a maximum of about 18-20 months. Then the perpetual loneliness seems absurd to me. But, I truly want to be 'cured of POIS', and, at current, this seems to be the only completely effective therapy, for me. I know 'it doesn't work for you' as a strategy, but I wanted to thank you for your frankness. I love the truth. Gandhi said "God is Truth" and that's what I believe.

Steve
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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