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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6433823 times)

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2850 on: 14/01/2009 06:47:04 »
Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!

Yes, my heart seems really agitated "in" POIS.  Beating like crazy, and it's really distracting.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2851 on: 14/01/2009 06:50:01 »
LEVITRA

At one time, this represented a 75% cure for me, cause for much joyful celebration and glee.

Some of us thought that perhaps the major impact on POIS is due to Levitra's effect in stimulating nitric oxide?

It's now over a year later since first discovering Levitra's effect on POIS accidentally, and I'm not so sure how well it's still working.

Perhaps the cognitive symptoms have lessened. But the exhaustion is still there, and it's debilitating, even though the symptomatic length of time has been cut down.

I believe you once mentioned you tried increasing the dose.  Does this affect the relief you feel from Levitra?

Thanks, CP. Yes, I doubled the dose and it seemed to work a little better. But it may have been placebo effect.

And the initial placebo effect....good gawd, is it possible to last for a year??? :)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2852 on: 14/01/2009 06:52:42 »
Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!
Yes, my heart seems really agitated "in" POIS.  Beating like crazy, and it's really distracting.
Yes, me too. But sometimes it's that nasty drug of mine, Ms. Caffeine :)
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2853 on: 14/01/2009 06:53:02 »
OmBass,
Interesting post.  What are your symptoms, specifically?  I encourage you to fill out the form: www.pois.olympe-network.com
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 16:39:33 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2854 on: 14/01/2009 06:59:10 »
Steve,
My post on symptom groupings can be found here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg200606#msg200606
Best regards.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2855 on: 14/01/2009 06:59:56 »
UPDATE: MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND I PARTNERING A CURE FOR POIS
Thanks for the update Demo.  I wish I could get more tests myself, but the doctors here have abandoned me long ago.  Just want to say if someday there is some research study, and they need test subjects, just tell me when and where and I'M THERE.

Pyro, don't give up. Every time I vowed to get up and keep fighting, something good happened! Show them Waldinger's paper! Show them the forum! I'll be happy to phone them on your support-behalf, just PM me.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2856 on: 14/01/2009 07:01:24 »
Pyro: did you get my e-mail about the MD PhD in your area?  He would be interested in seeing you as a patient, and is studying POIS.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2857 on: 14/01/2009 07:10:07 »
Counterpoints--
It is very interesting that we can have such different "takes" on the same post.
I certainly did not intend to give the impression that one view was sacrosanct and immune from criticism. My intentions all along were to respond to the "give and take" of dialogue in a positive, two sided manner which has been one of my interests for many years. My apologies. I might have been verbose, but I enjoyed writing it. I just never read into  that post the idea of name change. I enjoyed the stylistic introduction, recognized a spontaneous utterance (felt the anguish that only spontaneity can generate)and read down to get to the main idea/s. The contributor is always painfully honest and revealing.

Thanks for clarifying, and for your input.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2858 on: 14/01/2009 07:14:37 »
Routines and patterns

Looking back, I find that my POIS has been least significant when I am deeply involved in several routines:
1) Time intervals between orgasms are almost identical (e.g. hypothetically: 1 every 3 days at 10 pm)
2) Time intervals between meals are the same, and the same number of meals a day.
3) Waking up and going to sleep happens at the same times every day
4) Routines such as exercise take place every day, and at the same times

Has anyone else found this?

 

Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2859 on: 14/01/2009 07:45:45 »
Pyro, don't give up. Every time I vowed to get up and keep fighting, something good happened! Show them Waldinger's paper! Show them the forum! I'll be happy to phone them on your support-behalf, just PM me.

I really appreciate the offer Demo.  I have planned to go back there armed with Waldiner's paper and the knowledge of this forum, its just I've been doing lots of traveling and the term is now taking up all my time, and POIS isn't exactly making it easier (GRRR!!).

Pyro: did you get my e-mail about the MD PhD in your area?  He would be interested in seeing you as a patient, and is studying POIS.


CP, I did recieve your email a while ago, but my laptop died and I can't access anything on it, could u please send it again?


As for these heart palpitations, after some quick googling, it seems high cortisol is a cheif cause of palpiations.  This is consisent with the theory that excessive cortisol is responsible in part for POIS.  But if cortisol is too high, blood pressure should also be elevated above normal, I think I'll start monitoring my blood pressure during POIS and after the symptoms pass.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2860 on: 14/01/2009 07:53:03 »
The point of this exposition is... if it is true that POIS is harmful to all of us, and if POIS has at least five stages, then perhaps stopping the illness at an earlier stage would be easier, more effective and could alleviate some of our very real suffering.
...Just a thought

Steve--I think you've made an interesting point about your POIS beginning with the "thought" of sex. Then the "thrill
of the thought," followed by the "ritual" (of masturbation OR possibly intercourse, too--why not include that?), and
then the genital contact, and then the actual orgasm with the "catastrophic collapse" of emotions--of hopelessness
and negativity and despair, etc. This is an insightful description.

The "desperately driven" feeling to have sex is one kind. But there's also another, which I prefer. I would describe it as a sleepy-relaxed-cuddly sexual feeling. Only after I feel completely relaxed, do the the sexual feelings begin to predominate, but the urge is not a driven feeling, but more like a sensual bonding feeling....
The only apprehension I've felt revolves around question-"how tired am I going to be, if I go through to the orgasm?" Though that is something I have now trained myself
(quite successfully) to avoid.

Girlwind,

My experience, like yours, is that there is a world of difference between the motivation of being 'desperately driven' and the 'sleepy-relaxed-cuddly feeling' and a desire for 'sensual bonding'. I believe that the type of sexuality you describe is what I would call 'healthy sexuality'.My experience though, which also sounds like yours, is that, as a Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome sufferer, I am going to suffer regardless of the purity of my motives or the healthiness of my choices, when I am orgasmic. Truthfully, I find that there is some amelioration due to intentionality, but not enough to counter the massive physical onslaught of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome.

Also, the issues and solutions surrounding 'desperately driven' sex are beyond the scope or purpose of this forum and I ain't touching that stuff with a 10 foot pole...

masturbation OR possibly intercourse, too--why not include that?

Okay...


In Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome I experience five distinct, and discreet, stages of diminution and debilitation, the intensity of debilitation increasing at each new added level of sexual engagement.

The first stage, for me, of experiencing Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome has been expressed most eloquently by my daughter, who I raised by myself, when she was 15 years old, in a sudden blurt, "Daddy, when you even think about dating, you change". The truth about this is that, for me, the difference between dating and friendship is the potentiality, under whatever future conditions are agreed upon (marriage, engagement, commitment, etc), that there will be the possibility of sex. When I am open to dating, or thoughts of dating, both neurochemical activities, there is an immediate change in me. At it's most subtle level I view the world differently. Instead of being here to serve others, or just laugh with others, I am now here also, in part, to take, no matter how maturely, fairly and lovingly…Since I don't masturbate, this attitudinal shift is, for me, and I repeat, for me, the beginning, root and genesis of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome . This illness is literally defined by orgasm, as a heart attack is delineated by infarction... but denying that there are precipitating steps, for me, is just madness.

Second stage, for me, is when I start actually dating. All the women in the world become potential partners and I begin ask questions like Is this person emotionally available, can she commit, does she like to be sexual,  how successfully can she interact with my daughter, does she take care of herself physically and fiscally, does she have a sense of humor, do I find her sexually attractive? Each question, with each woman, in each circumstance, is a new neurochemical change in my brain...

The third stage, for me, is when I am kissing, hugging, holding and caressing,. All behaviors that would cause me to feel aroused. Arousal is a key milestone in the ascension toward the anticlimax I will experience as a consequence of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. My body is physically changing and literally taking new shape. This is where behavior can become almost trance like for me (see posting on masturbation). My brain is awash in chemicals. It's neurochemically/physically like drinking a couple glasses of wine, for me.

The fourth stage is non-orgasmic genital contact. Manual, oral or penile vaginal sexuality. Here, there will be very significant mental losses in me as a result of this activity, but my life will not become unmanageable. I lose the sparkle, resilience, intuition, visions and personal power in relationships that make my life easier.

Finally, orgasmic sexuality, and the onslaught of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, and to quote the previous masturbation post, there will be" pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization, depression, self pity, negativity, hopelessness, disconnection, despair, rigidity, humorlessness, self-centeredness, attempts at control, demandingness and numbness.

An honest man asked me just tonight "Well then why don't you become a monk?"

I like Woody Allen's answer "I just get too lonely!"


 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2861 on: 14/01/2009 09:03:36 »
Been experimenting with my partner the last two days in rolling back engagement in my five POIS stages by surrendering:

stage four, non-orgasmic genital contact
stage three, no genital contact
...leaving us with stage two, just dating


It's funny, the non-socially-acceptable desires in me vanished and we began to have a greater hunger for each other personally, which she appreciated. Also, I was really able channel that energy to work better last night in the studio producing a young, new, very loud, artist. I saved him a lot of money, because of my efficiency, and did very well for myself at the same time, and got my drummer a 33% raise, which pleased him...Today, my partner and I were able to do twice as much yoga on a beautiful beach and she got some much needed extra sleep tonight. I'm going to keep experimenting because I'm liking the results for my health and finances and it's improving me as a partner.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2862 on: 14/01/2009 14:55:06 »
Underwater, I woke up this morning and realized I misled you a 2nd time yesterday! You asked about prolactin/dopamine balancing. Yes, that was recommended by my Harvard biophysics friend and then discussed yesterday with my endo in the form of bromocriptine, which is a dopamine agonist that has successfully treated high prolactin levels.

The endo does not wish to go that route (it is NOT a benign drug) - for whatever reason - and am I ever grateful for that! Instead, he believes that stabilizing testosterone will reduce the prolactin.

We'll see after the March re-test.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 14:59:22 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2863 on: 14/01/2009 15:05:16 »
As for these heart palpitations, after some quick googling, it seems high cortisol is a cheif cause of palpiations.  This is consisent with the theory that excessive cortisol is responsible in part for POIS.  But if cortisol is too high, blood pressure should also be elevated above normal, I think I'll start monitoring my blood pressure during POIS and after the symptoms pass.

Thanks, Pyro! This confirms that I did the right thing by pushing my endo to measure cortisol. I only want to "push" the endo when absolutely necessary: I want to bring out his genius more than mine :)

And while I'm at it, thank you Counterpoints as well, for pushing the cortisol idea!
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 15:42:51 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2864 on: 14/01/2009 15:14:28 »
Demo
Thank You, Thank you for the clarifications--
I thought I was losing my memory and descending further into senility--

 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2865 on: 14/01/2009 15:24:36 »
Pyro--
I also have palpitations during POIS. I have had Tinnitus my whole life and can hear heart beat in my ears/head--
This is increased during POIS--
I am expert in ignoring the whole thing. In fact I can take my pulse just listening.
I know I am alive. When I can't hear my pulse I am dead; fortunately, before I can confirm the "end", I rediscover the pulse, usually by the old wrist method--
My palpitations can flare up during anxiety/panic episode and may be exacerbated during POIS--I believe it's from up/down of our chemical imbalances---------
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2866 on: 14/01/2009 15:37:36 »
Hi all,
I'd like to share my input and experience here.

Hi, OmBass, welcome to The POIS thread of the Naked Science Forum.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. MessageID: 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video. A first!

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2867 on: 14/01/2009 15:39:46 »
Demo
Thank You, Thank you for the clarifications--
I thought I was losing my memory and descending further into senility--

Underwater, if you are, I'm right behind you!  :)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2868 on: 14/01/2009 16:32:14 »
I read that a possible side effect from your new treatment is gynecomastia.

I will buy a larger bra and compete with my wife. ;D
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2869 on: 14/01/2009 17:11:01 »
Demo, about occasional hostility, rage and even blind fanaticism when sexually abstinent, here is the best I can say that has been helpful:.........

Martin, perhaps you missed my point: I simply believe that sexual/orgasmic repression is unhealthy at some point. It is different for everyone. I don't wish to "fix" that, I simply will respect it. For me, that means to not be chaste beyond 6 weeks or so. I also don't believe that is abnormal; just the opposite: it proves that we are sexually expressive beings! Suppresssion of natural desires can make one become ill (e.g., hostile, aggressive, depressed, etc.). For example, and I know this is very controversial, but I believe that the problem shows very clearly in some (but not all!) celibate clergy. I'm absolutely sure not everyone agrees with me. :)
My goal is to have this regularity you're talking about.
 
Intentionally I didn't use the word "you" in my post: perhaps what I wrote will be useful for other people who want to be sexually abstinent because they are viewing this as a "repairing" process to be able to have orgasms without pois in the future. It's very hard to say if abstinence is unhealthy or not, I think it depends the case.

Perhaps domestication is responsible for elevated sexual frequency in humans, this was mentionned in a study done with animals. If you look at nature, animals have sex but not during the whole year (with exceptions). (Total abstinence is definitely not the solution)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2870 on: 14/01/2009 17:18:08 »
========================================
OUR POIS FORUM HAS NOW EXCEEDED 200,000 SITE VIEWS!
========================================
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 19:27:53 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2871 on: 14/01/2009 17:25:52 »
Girlwind, about the brand Flora you mention: I always feel a clear effect with their products.

To the other who mention palpitations/panic attacks :
Beyond other I took a Hawthorn tea from this company for palpitations in pois. Very effective. I was taking the smallest efficient dose I could to keep the effect when really needed. Also suppressing wheat for one year cured my panic attacks (with palpitations and other symptoms.)


« Last Edit: 15/01/2009 02:11:37 by martin88 »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2872 on: 14/01/2009 18:31:28 »
One could go crazy trying to "play doctor" when one is not a doctor.
We are on a forum about medicine, and nobody is a doctor here. Personally I'm not playing, I'm just trying to rule out by myself-with your help guys!-what my MDs couldn't find. Medicine is not an exact science. Even your endo said that your precedent MD gave you the bad type of testosterone..

My input to him will be extremely selective.
I agree with you, I had the same experience. It's always possible to do the test for estrogen beside to dismiss this possibility for our personal research.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2873 on: 14/01/2009 18:32:44 »
Routines and patterns

Looking back, I find that my POIS has been least significant when I am deeply involved in several routines:
1) Time intervals between orgasms are almost identical (e.g. hypothetically: 1 every 3 days at 10 pm)
2) Time intervals between meals are the same, and the same number of meals a day.
3) Waking up and going to sleep happens at the same times every day
4) Routines such as exercise take place every day, and at the same times

Has anyone else found this?

If this is true, I'm in trouble: my patterns are very erratic. I avoid routines like the plague. Not saying it's smart, it's just my personality.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2874 on: 14/01/2009 18:52:31 »
It's very hard to say if abstinence is unhealthy or not, I think it depends the case.

Hi again, Martin. As I mentioned earlier, I think abstinence is eventually unhealthy for everyone. We are sexual beings. The length of time abstinent is the only variable.

Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: 14/01/2009 18:58:39 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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