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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6429878 times)

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2950 on: 19/01/2009 01:53:49 »
So Steve,
By not doing it in 18 1/2 years- are you cured? Or for you does it apply even to intercourse?

Pro,

Not masturbating 'cures' Pois from masturbating, but, that is about all... I experience Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome  with relationship/coupleship sexuality as well. I further find that, for me, I experience the symptoms of POIS in graduated degrees (see below)

Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

Two things are worth mentioning, here. First, is this is simply my experience and in no way do I speak for the rest of the people on this forum. Different people have very different experiences, treatments and beliefs. What is common to us all is illness that we all experience upon orgasm.

Secondly, personally, I am working very, very hard on solving the problems that arise from being a POIS sufferer and being in relationship...and I'm making all kinds of mistakes, but learning very quickly.

and finally, I find the fellowship provided by this forum to be very valuable.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2951 on: 19/01/2009 08:01:44 »
I had a remarkable experience last night. During the last nine months of being sexually, but not orgasmically sexual, there have been, on rare occasions, some seminal loss. Last night was one of those nights. Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome strikes me about 85% of the time when I am orgasmic. Last night was one of those 15% “free pass “ nights. That was not remarkable. What was remarkable was that the vulnerability that I felt due to seminal loss, accompanied by the utter safety I felt with my partner caused a deeply profound bonding in me towards her. Suddenly the biologic of people (generally recognized in men) feeling vulnerable after orgasm and then bonding with a safe mate, due to the vulnerability of being post orgasmic made sense.
I think, in me, as POIS sufferer that neurochemical reaction of orgasm is overly pronounced creating pathology, instead of creating an opportunity to bond more closely with an emotionally appropriate mate.

 

 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2952 on: 19/01/2009 15:22:54 »
Steve--
Good News, Interesting News--
The sense of what you are saying goes beyond the articulated words--
Could "free pass" be a bit more complex than we suspect? Maybe yes, Maybe no--
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2953 on: 19/01/2009 15:26:47 »
Steve--
Very interesting news--It's positive news--
I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--
Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2954 on: 19/01/2009 16:22:58 »
Hello to the newcomers--In my case, I have found considerable alleviation of POIS symptoms
by taking adrenal boosting supplements and herbs: Vitamin C with pantothenic acid, schizandra,
siberian ginseng, DHEA, and maca. In addition, managing my thyroid by avoiding goitrogenic
foods (cabbage and peanuts and soy being the worst), getting enough iodine in my diet--with
sea salt and seaweed being included in my diet, and taking the Indian herb--Ashwaghanda to
assist the thyroid, have helped me even more. I had a nocturnal orgasm a few nights ago, and
had practically NO symptoms! In fact my energy has been really good since. Hurray! This gives
me great hope!

I should also add that having regular eating and sleeping habits has been critical for me in aiding
the "cortisol" boost that I so badly needed. I could lose all my progress if I was not disciplined
with that.  And yes, this forum has been a huge support and help as well. Lots of great insights
from all ends of the spectrum.
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2955 on: 19/01/2009 17:14:16 »
Girlwind--
Glad to hear positive news--Steps in the right direction--
Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may be
the most valuable to me. I don't see how we can ever separate the physiological and psychological. Descartes is long gone. It may be too extreme to say "mind over matter", but how about "mind with matter"? This is what I sense from the many posts here with many perspectives. I have gone back and forth like a ping ping match for 20 years, gravitating toward pure chemistry at times and then being thrown back into a psychological/behavioral black hole. I can entertain negative thoughts, and then, abracadabra, I don't feel so great. I didn't mention in an earlier post re: supplements that I have also added selenium and iodine to my morning supplement intake. But my biggest "plus" that I have felt the last month has probably been connected to a big boost in vitamin B. It was way too low. My GAD is almost gone, but is lingering stubbornly. Thank you for your updates----------------------------
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2956 on: 19/01/2009 18:46:36 »
Is anyone else having screen problems today? On this forum, the display is "too large"
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2957 on: 19/01/2009 18:52:48 »
TESTOSTERONE

Today is Day 4 of wearing 2 Testosterone patches prescribed by my endocrinologist for POIS.

From Day 1, I felt better (patches work right away). Since my testosterone is low, feeling better makes sense.

Whether this will lower my sky-high prolactin and then "cure" my POIS, another month or so and I will know.

I'm very optimistic with this new doctor. He takes POIS VERY seriously and is committed to helping me find the way to POIS-freedom!

For more background info on this post:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg217326#msg217326

NOTE: Testosterone therapy is not a forum recommendation! Consult your health care advisor to see if it's right for you.
« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 20:24:49 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2958 on: 19/01/2009 19:21:30 »
Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2959 on: 19/01/2009 19:52:00 »
Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?

Thanks, Underwater! It's really nice to get positive feedback here from "people who REALLY know!"

If there is anything to the theory (for men) that semen-loss is correlated to POIS, then testosterone makes sense because I think that it speeds up semen production. And the T-patches mimic the body's steady flow of T-production vs. the erratic peaks and valleys that the injectables produce, which is what I tried before.

Very astute question, Underwater, "might [testosterone] also balance out prolactin somehow?" That's exactly what the endocrinologist's theory is!
« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 20:26:45 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2960 on: 19/01/2009 20:19:08 »

My last [testosterone] test at M.D. came back okay.


Underwater, so did mine! But when I tested more in-depth, as suggested by Girlwind, testosterone came out LOW! Apparently, many (most?) general-MD's are not all that up to date on hormonal testing.

"Free testosterone" needs to be part of your testing. One reason why I went to an endocrinologist. I think Girlwind recommends seeing a naturopath and/or testing directly with labs such as ZRT Labs.

These former posts should help:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+testosterone+ZRT+labs+girlwind+site%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2961 on: 19/01/2009 20:55:01 »
Thanks Demo for the added info------
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2962 on: 19/01/2009 21:06:42 »
Underwater,

I just looked at my lab report, and it shows in the testosterone area:

- Testosterone, Bioavailable

- Testosterone, Total

- (SHGB) Sex Hormone Globulin Binding

- Testosterone, Free


« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 21:10:14 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2963 on: 19/01/2009 21:13:02 »
I was informed that **The Naked Scientists are performing some advertising tests, explaining the tech problems we're experiencing.





**I hope they're not freezing!
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2964 on: 19/01/2009 22:47:32 »
I have found that exercise is a temporary improvement for POIS. I've been long distance runner/swimmer for 32 yrs. Exercise = Endorphins.  For me, staying away from alcohol and caffeine has helped with both conditions.  Supplements: I've taken supplements for over 30 years. Vitamin C is my constant forever. I take a B complex, D, fish oil, garlic, magnesium and potassium, also some calcium.
For me, this forum is therapeutic and cathartic. I actually feel better as a result of constructive, positive dialogue. Since I feel better as a result, it strengthens my immune and nervous systems. It reinforces healing. It seeps into the subconscious. It actually becomes a tool. 
But I absolutely know  that there is a "rock solid case" for a concommitant psychological and behavioural genesis, if not actual cause.  Thus, I try to work on all aspects of POIS to diminish it: exercise, sleep, nutrition, my mind, my back, supplements, psychiatrist, chiropractor , you know all the stuff we talk about all the time. For me, I prefer natural methods.
Girlwind--
Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may be
the most valuable to me.

Underwater,

These all make sense to me. I don't drink alcohol or use caffiene (or drugs or cigarettes). I work out very hard daily. Around supplements: I drink a 12 herbal tea prepared specifically by my acupuncturist for POIS. I drink 6 to 24 ounces of homegrown, fresh wheatgrass per day (far and away the most effective supplement , for me). I also take cod liver oil, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements.
I think the holistic approach is the most sensible way, for me, too. So, I also add prayer, meditation and service. Service, I've got to say, after abstinence, is the most effective tool against POIS I have experienced. Finally, and most recently, is the healing power of this forum. There is something about the love, in the form of acceptance, that is just magical, for me. Thanks guys (and girl).

 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2965 on: 19/01/2009 23:00:51 »
Steve--
Very interesting news--It's positive news--
I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--
Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?

Underwater,

Thanks. My partner is of the same vigilant hopefulness. I, initially sadly, but now with acceptance, peace and courage, do not see the anomalies as signs of hope, but rather as spurious, confusing and misleading examples of a disease manifesting as cunning, baffling and powerful.
I, for one, believe that  abstinence is the 'cure' for Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, for me. So, I choose to accept that and spend my energy trying to make my life as good, healthy, creative and as happy as it can possibly be, but without orgasm...I've got a lot to learn, but I'm getting better.
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2966 on: 20/01/2009 00:01:26 »
Steve--
I haven't gone into my behavioral decisions regarding POIS as much as you or others have, but the last 20 months I have been basically abstinent due to GAD plus POIS. There are NE's. These are not pleasant.
However, I do have fresh recollections of the years 2004-2006. They were a very good two years! Pois was "tolerable" and had a defined 2-3 day dissipation pattern. Then in early/middle 2007 things fell apart. Imprudent behavioral choices with their psychological consequences ignited GAD, and GAD intensified POIS which intensified GAD etc. Now 20 months later, I've rid all imprudent behaviour, reduced POIS "episodes" and am close to ending this GAD episode. Can I return to 2004/5 condition? I don't have a clue, but I'm optimistic. I see anomalies as windows of possibilities. This is because I've experienced BAD GAD for long perios of time and recovered! And a BAD GAD episode can last for me two months and be like POIS 24/7. Yet I get over them. POIS is like an evil trick sent by one of the goddesses/gods in the ancient greek pantheon to punish an unfaithful servent/lover. Or better yet, a punishment one could have seen in Dante's inferno. Many times I've felt like a rat in Skinner's experiments where when you press a lever for food you get electrocuted, yet return for punishment anyhow. Nevertheless, I do not think that POIS is like an etching carved into our brain incapable of being filled in or erased. I know that I have a long way to go to break those "mind forged manacles" that William Blake refers to in his poem, London, but will look to anomalies as least as distant lights for inspiration.
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2967 on: 20/01/2009 03:47:01 »
Steve--
 ...but the last 20 months I have been basically abstinent
Pois was "tolerable" and had a defined 2-3 day dissipation pattern. Then in early/middle 2007 things fell apart. Imprudent behavioral choices with their psychological consequences ignited POIS. Now 20 months later, I've rid all imprudent behaviour, reduced POIS "episodes". Can I return to 2004/5 condition? I don't have a clue, but I'm optimistic.

Underwater,

It piques me that it's been 20 months of change, for you. 20 months ago I stopped being orgasmic and that was very good for me. 9 months ago I started dating again.

I experienced, as you so eloquently stated "behavioral choices with their psychological consequences". Though I avoided POIS, like the bubonic plague, I still incurred very significant losses , due to genital contact, in all the areas POIS affects, but just to a lesser degree.

I am trying to obtain the level of health I experienced being perfectly chaste the first 11 months of this 20 month period.

In all fairness to truth, I felt very lonely the first 11 months and I don't feel any of that now.



 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2968 on: 20/01/2009 05:17:26 »

I am in NC and none of the doctors I have seen to know or are willing to answer anything about it.


SickLifeSaver, endocrinologists in North Carolina:
http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/north_carolina/endocrinologists/

It's listed by City/town.

The original POIS medical study was co-authored by an endocrinologist. Perhaps you can email it to a few in NC near you and ask for their reaction so you'll pick one that is more motivated to learn about this.

Get a copy from me or Pyropeach; we would just need your email address to send it to.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 05:18:57 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2969 on: 20/01/2009 05:22:21 »
Steve--
I understand your symptomatologic chart: 1-5 with % of loss.
For me it can be understood as behaviours that trigger an anxiety/panic episode. In my experience it would reflect an hyperexcitatory state.
Believe it or not, I have experienced what you define as number 3 (arousal and loss). Except it caused a reaction like number 4 or 5. It was terrible. These events happened in July 2007 at the beginning of this 20 month period I talked about. These were visual triggers only, but at the time my nervous system was so debilitated that I could do nothing. I was on "vacation", can you believe it? I thought I was going "mad", because I had very little control over my mind's response to the stimuli. So it fits into your number 3 category. I thought I was going crazy! Man, that was an awful period. I
really understand what you're going through. This is why I have posted a lot about my GAD and my POIS. I cannot disentangle them. One is orgasmic and post orgasmic (POIS) and the other sexual and pre-orgasmic. (I have used the term many times of anticipatory anxiety, almost a fear of arousal and orgasm). I still get those in sleep in fear of NE, but finally am controlling the extent of symptoms. In fact, when I was in a real bad period,
even if I didn't get to number 5, but almost, it triggered armageddon. The good news is that these have now all diminished. But I must do what is right for my body/mind just as you clearly state. Being in a long and solid marriage makes things much easier for me. Believe me, I understand your situation and the tragic consequences it has for you, for if you crave companionship and the joy of sexuality there is a dark, black cloud hanging over your every move. You know, sometimes I feel we're in a maze or house of mirrors never finding the exit, always running into reflections of ourselves. I submit to you there is an exit. I don't know quite where yet, but I'm optimistically looking.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2970 on: 20/01/2009 05:28:28 »

Pro, i really love your description of "unawakened" state, dissociation. I feel the same thing. You find the good expression. It's the more difficult symptom to explain to my doc.
I used the words :
- mental confusion
- stupor
- derealisation
- "i feel like sleeping" / dreamlike state
- loss of vigilance and loss of consciousness
   
At the moment, my best theory to try to explain this is the unbalanced ratio DHEA/cortisol. Saving cortisol release might be a key factor (avoiding all physical , psychological stressors as diet or light) and for flulike cases at least , inflammation.
 

B_Jim, can you explain the DHEA/cortisol relationship just a little more?

Did you get the idea from the partial successes of Relora and Fenugreek?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2971 on: 20/01/2009 05:42:04 »

None of the physicians I have approached are able to diagnose the problem.


fellow sufferer, please see my note above to SickLifeSaver, or click:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg218918#msg218918

Do a google search on "Endocrinologists in [your state]" and then follow the suggestions in my post to SickLifeSaver.


I have a delay post "O" of about 1 to 6 hours before this awful condition begins.


This is very common, fellow sufferer. Some people have the delay for a full 24 hours. This has happened to me often, but not always.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 05:45:25 by demografx »
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2972 on: 20/01/2009 07:44:23 »
Steve--
I understand your symptomatologic chart: 1-5 with % of loss.
For me it can be understood as behaviours that trigger an anxiety/panic episode. In my experience it would reflect an hyperexcitatory state.
This is why I have posted a lot about my GAD and my POIS. I cannot disentangle them.

You know, sometimes I feel we're in a maze or house of mirrors never finding the exit, always running into reflections of ourselves. I submit to you there is an exit. I don't know quite where yet, but I'm optimistically looking.

Underwater,

I feel like I'm on my tippy-toes trying to understand your experiences of GAD . I can't. I imagine that this is what it must feel like when loving and wise people try to understand what I've been saying about Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. They simply have no experience of it and the can't understand, try as they may.

For me, the stages of POIS are physical states, which leads me to believe that dopamine levels rise or prolactin levels drop in the pre-orgasmic stages of POIS and then there is an 'allergic reaction'  to that neurochemical change depending on the level of exposure...very similar to the emotional/experiential envelope that addiction theory models describe.

Various approaches use black and white thinking (ie, abstinence) and others use moderation-eating disorders for example. Since it is true that I"... crave companionship and with the joy of sexuality there is a dark, black cloud hanging over my every move" , honestly, then, I am currently titrating to see where an acceptable level of loss is.

PS Hendrix used to say 'I used to live in a house full of mirrors, and I all I could see was me'. I know, due to the first 11 months of this 20 month period, that there is an absolutely perfect solution to this problem. A chaste life, alone. I know that works...but, it was lonely. Not the worst problem in the world, of course, but one I would like to solve.

 
 

Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2973 on: 20/01/2009 07:49:31 »
Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful...
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2974 on: 20/01/2009 18:25:00 »
Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2974 on: 20/01/2009 18:25:00 »

 

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