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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6451241 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3150 on: 27/01/2009 17:15:29 »

I am somewhat affected (with POIS) this time, as opposed to my previous NE episodes.


John, I don't have any suggestions, but I'm very sorry to hear that the NE "gotcha" this time out, and do wish you a very speedy POIS-recovery!!
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 17:18:36 by demografx »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3151 on: 27/01/2009 17:56:36 »


3rd: Hcg+Hmg+Toco-8 plus increase of protein and less carbs, more red meat, fish and lots of cruciferous vegetables ie broccoli (Successful)


at the risk of sounding ignorant what are Hcg, Hmg, and Toco 8?


mister_z, not ignorant at all! This is another reason it would be  nice for CCconfucius' "anonymous sufferer" to come forward.

I certainly would like to ask him, too! All I could find on hcg is, "Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) is a glycoprotein hormone produced in pregnancy that is made by the embryo soon after conception..."

???

The point of me posting the response is to show that we all need to get our hormones checked and to proceed with our unique results. I was just giving clue about some of the things we should ask doctor. I was not using to suggest any treatment i was hoping your doctors will be the one making the best decision on that. 
Like B-jim said younger people might have to take a different route in using dhea and i agree i have seen the result of trying to take dhea without guidiance.
That post was a reference not the sure way.

 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3152 on: 27/01/2009 18:18:10 »
"Anonymous sufferer" ?
I prefer dialogue !

Deloun--
I've read about and experimented with cold showers--Inconclusive for me.
I totally agree that hot/cold alternating water/showers will help circulation;
So will exercise and alternating breathing.
Thanks for your suggestion for anxiety.

Demo--
T Patches. If they continue to make you feel better, ipso facto they must strenthen your nervous system and immune system, part of a whole process of recovery even if not "the" bullet to kill POIS. That's why "anonymous" needs to show up. He referred to many bullets. We need to hear how he "felt" during the process. He mentioned he rebalanced his neurotransmitters; I'd like to know how!  Also,
I think it is very, very helpful to discuss other illnesses eg. (CFS GAD) if there is "relevancy" to POIS. Granted we want to stay on topic, but sensible hypotheses or connections made to POIS grounded in personal observation may be very helpful.  


 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3153 on: 27/01/2009 18:38:02 »
Girlwind, you said that you haven't tested for prolactin, but maybe it could help you?

This new article states, similarly to the one below, "We found that CFS subjects show a higher prolactin response than controls..."
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iop/prt/cfs.htm

my original post to you (first article):
PROLACTIN AND CFS

Girlwind and other CFS-affected individuals here: this seemed like an intriguing link. It requires only simple registration, but here is the Google description:

"Baseline prolactin levels were the same in all three groups, but rose much faster and higher in the patients with CFS than in the other two groups after ..."   http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1992/512/6


Thanks, Demo, I will check out the article.

I am approaching the hormonal issue cautiously. I am working on the thyroid and adrenals first, as they are my most
significant hormonal problems. I'm going to take BABY doses for thyroid, smaller than anything the doctor has given to
anyone else. I requested this and he agreed that I could do it my way. (I REALLY like that!) Most of his patients start with
10 mcg/day, for the thyroid. I will be taking only 1 mcg/day. For the adrenals, I will be taking cortisol at 2.5 mg/day,
half of the usual dose. He said my goal should be to try to raise the thyroid up to 10 mcg/day over time. He left it up to
me HOW to  do that, based on how I am feeling. I trust myself to take my time.

As for prolactin and testosterone (there is apparently a significant relationship btwn these two, as has been posted here
before), I am also deficient in testosterone, estrogen and DHEA, but I will wait until after I have done the thyroid and cortisol.
I don't want to overwhelm myself with so many hormonal changes all at once. In about 3 months I will retest my levels and
reassess what to do next.

« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 21:36:31 by girlwind »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3154 on: 27/01/2009 19:06:54 »
The point of me posting the response is to show that we all need to get our hormones checked and to proceed with our unique results.
I was just giving clue about some of the things we should ask doctor. I was not using to suggest any treatment i was hoping your doctors
will be the one making the best decision on that. 
Like B-jim said younger people might have to take a different route in using dhea and i agree i have seen the result of trying to take dhea without guidiance.

That post was a reference not the sure way.

YES! I agree with CConfucius-- This is the point of posting the anonymous poster's information (*without officially getting his
permission I might add). If he wants to come forward it's up to him. But it's the info that he has provided that should give us all
HOPE plus a clue about how important hormonal balance can be to someone who has POIS. We are DEFINITELY all different.
But hopefully it might motivate people here to at least consider investigating their hormone levels and finding out WHAT's UP.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3155 on: 27/01/2009 21:50:50 »
Quote
Several months ago I requested many laboratory blood and urine tests and went to an orthomolecular doctor and one of the things she diagnosed is that I have a poor methylation. Choline plays a vital role in methylation.

Deloun, how did she determine that your methylation is poor?
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3156 on: 27/01/2009 21:55:08 »
Girlwind--
I totally agree that the "information" regarding possible POIS therapies is the key factor. I am now much more aware of the importance of hormones, not only for POIS, but for my GAD. In fact, I'm beginning to sense a connection that I did't make prior to my discussions here. For example, I now suspect that not only GABA (neurotransmitter) helps my anxiety condition by reducing stress (probable impact on adrenals generally), but that it may also help regulate serotonin and dopamine, with direct consequences for the balancing of prolactin and cortisol. Before, I didn't suspect that gaba might work in conjunction with the other two inhibitory neurotransmitters, all three of them then helping regulate the hormones cortisol and prolactin and visa versa; a complex dance indeed. And perhaps at the foundation of all of this, amino acids, enzymes etc. Since my POIS symptoms mirror those of GAD (during an anxiety flare up), I am now  studying GAD in a much broader context, and if I can fix GAD more comprehensively, then POIS may just follow. In my case, I've always felt that orgasm took my basic adrenal releases of epinephrine and kicked it up a notch to excessive cortisol and perhaps other (prolactin) releases. I didn't realize that there may be a continuous regular intervening activity of the neurotransmitters during the intitial phases of orgasm. That would mean that all hormones and neuotransmitters are constantly working together, not some drawn out sequential type of thing with "balancing the account" afterwards. So thanks for helping with my thinking on this. As far as a concrete contribution to POIS or GAD, I'll share it if I one of my experiments gets at least get to the "cautiously optimistic" point.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3157 on: 27/01/2009 22:28:38 »
Underwater--

Yes... The neurotransmitter/hormone opus is a very elaborate orchestra piece. It feels like we all have been trying to figure
out the notes by ear, one by one, for each of the many "instruments" involved. It would be SO NICE if someone just gave us
the music. But NO, unfortunately, it's up to us to figure it out.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3158 on: 28/01/2009 00:09:59 »
Girlwind and all,

You're right. If it weren't for this forum, I wouldn't have dreamed of checking my hormones and/or seeing an endocrinologist! And I'm stubborn, so it's taken me 2 years of being here!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3159 on: 28/01/2009 00:14:26 »
MY POSTING

I might not be able to post here for a while, fixing my laptop - and my cellphone doesn't have posting ability here.

But I can receive and send PM (Private Messages)on my cellphone.

And I WILL be reading your curative posts! :)
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3160 on: 28/01/2009 00:31:18 »
Girlwind I wish you success with this new treatment. B_Jim is right in what he's saying about hormones in general so just be careful. As with any thyroid treatment check the heart function, I don't know exactly what you can do, maybe a periodic ecg. But I suppose they're taking care of this.

John, soja contains a lot of nutrients. Its absence can eventually be the cause or perhaps a lack of light or vitamin D during the winter.. About choline I took a supplement without success. In the form of lecithin or brain however I could have a good effect for 5 minutes, after the first intake only. Nothing significant. I feel that lecithin could be involved in the cure but perhaps not well absorbed. When I was younger I had success in alleviating pois with eggs but I can't have this effect again.



 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3161 on: 28/01/2009 00:32:32 »
CCconfucius re SSTAR

CCc, I heard back from SSTAR's Yvonnada McNeil, (email: ymcneil AT acog.org ) - and rather than wait for the merry-go-round through her, I simply emailed back Ms. McNeil and asked her to forward my letter + attachment to Jane Ashby. So we're one step closer.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3162 on: 28/01/2009 01:14:15 »
Thanks to all who are concerned for your investigation with SSTAR meeting.

I wanted to add to my somewhat intrusive(!)theory about phosphatemia. I'm not convinced about this but I was surprised to find the following :

from wikipedia :
hypophosphatemia
Some symptoms looks like pois :

Muscle dysfunction and weakness.This occurs in major muscles, but also may manifest as: diplopia, low cardiac output,dysphagia, and respiratory depression due to respiratory muscle weakness.Mental status changes. This may range from irritability to gross confusion,delirium, and coma.White cell dysfunction, causing worsening of infections Instability of cell membrates due to low ATP levels: this may cause
rhabdomyolysis with increased CPK, and also hemolytic anemia


link with carbohydrates :
large amounts of carbohydrates, which creates a high phosphorus demand by cells
« Last Edit: 29/07/2009 21:53:24 by martin88 »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3163 on: 28/01/2009 01:52:44 »
Girlwind I wish you success with this new treatment. B_Jim is right in what he's saying about hormones in general so just be careful. As with any thyroid treatment check the heart function, I don't know exactly what you can do, maybe a periodic ecg. But I suppose they're taking care of this.

Martin--I have learned that those with low normal thyroid levels (like me) are MORE at risk for heart attack.
This is one of the important reasons to treat it.  (Below, I have quotes from the website of the doctors I'm working with.)

"Low normal thyroid levels result in a higher risk of heart disease than if you have high cholesterol, high blood pressure,
if you smoke or even have diabetes. Individuals with low normal thyroid levels are 2.5 times more likely to suffer a heart attack.

This is greater than if you have high cholesterol (2.4 times risk), high blood pressure (1.6 times risk), if you smoke (2 times
risk) or have diabetes (2.4 times risk). Doctors and patients are well aware of these risk factors for heart disease but fail to cor-
rect the more important low normal thyroid levels. Many patients needlessly suffer heart attacks because their physician
tells them their thyroid is fine because it is in the normal range instead of optimizing to more optimal levels."

 
"Low thyroid is associated with an increased risk of coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart enlargement, stroke,
infections, and cancer."

Coronary-Artery Disease in Hypothyroidism.
FROM: The Lancet.
« Last Edit: 28/01/2009 01:54:32 by girlwind »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3164 on: 28/01/2009 02:31:44 »
Girlwind I wish you success with this new treatment. B_Jim is right in what he's saying about hormones in general so just be careful. As with any thyroid treatment check the heart function, I don't know exactly what you can do, maybe a periodic ecg. But I suppose they're taking care of this.

Martin--I have learned that those with low normal thyroid levels (like me) are MORE at risk for heart attack.
This is one of the important reasons to treat it.  (Below, I have quotes from the website of the doctors I'm working with.)

"Low normal thyroid levels result in a higher risk of heart disease than if you have high cholesterol, high blood pressure,
if you smoke or even have diabetes. Individuals with low normal thyroid levels are 2.5 times more likely to suffer a heart attack.

This is greater than if you have high cholesterol (2.4 times risk), high blood pressure (1.6 times risk), if you smoke (2 times
risk) or have diabetes (2.4 times risk). Doctors and patients are well aware of these risk factors for heart disease but fail to cor-
rect the more important low normal thyroid levels. Many patients needlessly suffer heart attacks because their physician
tells them their thyroid is fine because it is in the normal range instead of optimizing to more optimal levels."

 
"Low thyroid is associated with an increased risk of coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart enlargement, stroke,
infections, and cancer."

Coronary-Artery Disease in Hypothyroidism.
FROM: The Lancet.

I should give more precisions :
I'm just saying that with any treatment for thyroid the heart should be checked for possible severe forms of arrhytmia. That's all ! Sometimes just a small test can prevent more serious problems. Note that I didn't tell you "don't take this treatment". I think that what you're saying is compatible with what I said.
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3165 on: 28/01/2009 13:00:33 »
Quote
Several months ago I requested many laboratory blood and urine tests and went to an orthomolecular doctor and one of the things she diagnosed is that I have a poor methylation. Choline plays a vital role in methylation.

Deloun, how did she determine that your methylation is poor?

Well, I've requested laboratory tests for quite a lot of things and those results together tell the story. Some of the results of the laboratory tests that are signals of poor methylation are lack of some vitamins and amino acids, relatively high homocysteine and deficiencies of some neurotransmitters. But I'll post about it later in more detail, besides poor methylation there are other things that are noticeable, so I'm planning to go through all the results again and post about the things that are noticeable here.
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3166 on: 28/01/2009 13:12:01 »
Girlwind, could you tell me what exactly isn't working correctly regarding your thyroid? A result of a laboratory test of my urine showed a normal level of T4 but a deficiency of T3 on it's own and besides that T3 is too low in relation to T4. So a deficiency of T3 and a T3/T4 ratio that is out of balance.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3167 on: 28/01/2009 14:27:46 »
Hi Deloun,
Your results are remarkably helpful, thank you for reporting. Were these tests asked by a naturopathic doctor ?
« Last Edit: 28/01/2009 14:31:53 by martin88 »
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3168 on: 28/01/2009 15:31:54 »
Hi Deloun,
Your results are remarkably helpful, thank you for reporting. Were these tests asked by a naturopathic doctor ?

Hi martin88, you're welcome, it would be nice if it could be of any help to anyone here.
 
A little while ago I've done some research for a while to look for any substances that could be related to my POIS symptoms and that I could get tested with laboratory research. As a result I requested application forms for tests, at the European Laboratory of Nutrients (ELN) (1), a well regarded laboratory situated in the Netherlands, which has a connection to another well regarded laboratory in the USA, Vitamin Diagnostics. I filled in requests for many things that in my view and according to the research that I have done, could be related in any way to my POIS symptoms. After that I went to my local doctor and asked for a referral to a medical center in the Netherlands, Medisch Centrum (Medical Center) Rhijnauwen in Bunnik (2), who has a connection to the ELN. In this way all costs were covered by my basic health insurance in the Netherlands, except for one test, the Melisa test. For anyone who wants to get some things tested, I can recommend these two laboratories and for anyone who lives in or near the Netherlands I can recommend to do it via the Medisch Centrum Rhijnauwen (MCR) (2) to get a chance of getting the costs covered by insurance, but I recommend to always check the current state of possibilities to get it covered (I did it end of last year, so things could have changed this year) and to contact the MCR (2) about it, which I also did beforehand.

After the results were in, I've made appointments to two different orthomolecular doctors, Kim van Wetten at the MCR (2) and Robert Trossèl at the PMC Rotterdam (3), which I can both recommend and in my opinion it can never hurt to check with two different doctors.

(1) http://europeanlaboratory.com
(2) http://www.medischcentrumbunnik.nl
(3) http://www.preventiefmedischcentrum.nl
« Last Edit: 28/01/2009 17:06:05 by deloun »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3169 on: 28/01/2009 15:42:40 »
Girlwind, could you tell me what exactly isn't working correctly regarding your thyroid? A result of a laboratory test of my urine showed a normal level of T4 but a deficiency of T3 on it's own and besides that T3 is too low in relation to T4. So a deficiency of T3 and a T3/T4 ratio that is out of balance.

Deloun--Your situation is similar to mine, as I also have low T3, with optimal T4. They call this "poor T4 to T3 conversion."
I took Ashwaghanda for 3 1/2 months for this. It is an adaptogenic herb that is supposed to help T4 convert to T3. I saw
some improvement and my blood test results confirmed this--when I retested just recently. I DEFINITELY felt better from
taking the Ashwaghanda, but I still have non-optimal results for both T3 and Reverse T3. Because I have had CFS for 30
years, and have taken only herbal and vitamin supplements for ALL this time, I've decided to give the hormones a chance.
I just began a round of very low dose cortisol (to boost my still non-optimal cortisol levels). After taking this for a week or
so... I will start taking a time released T3 thyroid formulation. I am going to continue all of my adrenal boosters along with
my hormones. This includes: Pantothenic acid 3-5 grams/day with 3-5 grams Vit. C; Schizandra Adrenal Complex (made by
Planetary Formulas)--6 caps; Siberian ginseng (Imperial Brand)--6 caps; B complex 100 mg; Maca powder in my morning
smoothie--approx. 1 tsp. and sea salt/seaweed in my cooking.  I also take other supplements--much too long to list here.

I would recommend that you find someone to work with who is really skilled and knowledgeable in the area of hormones.
I am seeing a couple of endocrinologists, as well as a naturopath, who has many years of experience with hormone balancing,
and an acupuncturist, who I've worked with for 20 years. I want "checks and balances," so I won't be trusting just one person
with this. I'm also educating myself as much as I can about hormones, both on line and in print. Mary Shomon's book--Living
Well With Hypothyroidism has been an excellent resource on thyroid. She also has a website.  http://www.thyroid-info.com/

And, if you want to read up on the work of the doctors I am seeing, their website has a lot of good info on many of the main
hormone issues--especially thyroid and also testosterone.   http://holtorfmed.reachlocal.net/index.php
« Last Edit: 28/01/2009 16:12:16 by girlwind »
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3170 on: 28/01/2009 16:10:57 »
Girlwind, thanks a lot for your help. I would be interested if the time released T3 thyroid formulation and other supplements will be of help to you. Interesting links you gave, thanks for that. After opening the link you gave, http://www.thyroid-info.com, I read under "Key links": "Selenium: An Essential Thyroid Nutrient". The results of the laboratory tests also showed a deficiency of selenium, do you happen to have a deficiency for this as well?
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3171 on: 28/01/2009 17:26:28 »
Girlwind, thanks a lot for your help. I would be interested if the time released T3 thyroid formulation and other supplements will be of help to you. Interesting links you gave, thanks for that. After opening the link you gave, http://www.thyroid-info.com, I read under "Key links": "Selenium: An Essential Thyroid Nutrient". The results of the laboratory tests also showed a deficiency of selenium, do you happen to have a deficiency for this as well?

Good question... According to my last hair mineral analysis I wasn't deficient in selenium. The mineral supplement I currently
take does contain some, so that probably explains why.
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3172 on: 28/01/2009 17:50:11 »
Since many years ago I've been suspecting that the mercury in amalgam fillings could be the cause to my complaints. Then for some time I let it rest and searched for other causes and solutions, but every now and then the thoughts about the mercury returned.
A while ago I started to look further into it and to read about it on the internet and in a book to gather a lot of information about it and to search for a possible connection to POIS. During that my suspicion that it could play an important role only grew.

So I've also requested laboratory tests regarding mercury.

Tests:

I've requested a DMPS test, a saliva test for mercury and a Melisa test.

The DMPS test works by taking a mercury chelator and then collecting urine for 4 hours, which will be tested for the quantity of mercury in it.

The saliva test works by chewing on a chewing gum and then collecting the saliva, which will then be tested for the quantity of mercury.

The Melisa test is an allergy test that tests for an allergic reaction to several metals.

Results:

The DMPS and saliva tests showed way too much mercury and the melisa test showed an allergic reaction to several mercury metals.
 

Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3173 on: 28/01/2009 17:56:27 »
Girlwind, thanks a lot for your help. I would be interested if the time released T3 thyroid formulation and other supplements will be of help to you. Interesting links you gave, thanks for that. After opening the link you gave, http://www.thyroid-info.com, I read under "Key links": "Selenium: An Essential Thyroid Nutrient". The results of the laboratory tests also showed a deficiency of selenium, do you happen to have a deficiency for this as well?

Good question... According to my last hair mineral analysis I wasn't deficient in selenium. The mineral supplement I currently
take does contain some, so that probably explains why.

OK, the tests that I've had were in urine and blood, maybe those can show deficiencies while not be shown in a hair analysis. Or maybe you already supplemented it enough like you said, yes. Both urine and blood analysis showed deficiencies of selenium.
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3174 on: 28/01/2009 18:14:41 »
Since many years ago I've been suspecting that the mercury in amalgam fillings could be the cause to my complaints. \

I've requested a DMPS test, a saliva test for mercury and a Melisa test.

The DMPS and saliva tests showed way too much mercury and the melisa test showed an allergic reaction to several mercury metals.

Deloun--Where did you get the saliva test for mercury?  I want this!

I have had heavy metals show up in me and did a lot of different chelators. The PCA Rx was one of the better ones.
Check it out. http://ssl.maxamlabs.com/MAXAM_ASP_CMS_Templates_STD_HTML.asp?PageINDX=23

The reason that heavy metal contamination is significant to this forum, for anyone who may want to know, many sources indicate
that heavy metals are neuro-toxins as well as endocrine hormone disrupters.
« Last Edit: 28/01/2009 18:42:11 by girlwind »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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