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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6431562 times)

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3450 on: 13/02/2009 01:14:55 »

My current POIS theories

1) I think there may be something wrong with our pituitary glands or adrenal glands. 

2) The alternative (which I think is possibly more likely), is that we have a tumor (somewhere -- possibly pituitary or adrenal), which is being either chemically or physically stimulated by orgasm/ejaculation. 


I was shocked with the pituitary revelations of my bloodwork and Brain MRI, as you cited.

But my 75%+ cure (4th "O" in 4 days yesterday with only mild and quickly disappearing symptoms) also may point to Rob's depletion/replenishment theory (testosterone = efficient sperm replacement) and nitric oxide from Levitra stimulating oxytocin depletion.

Counterpoints, is the above compatible with your pituitary/adrenal theory or completely different?
I think testosterone is able to regulate the hypophysis.

Also I can remember the following : a long time ago my pois was decreased for a time (It could be for a lot of reasons) and I was feeling exactly the same thing you feel, like if sperm was rebuilded very quickly after an orgasm. I even had one semen loss at this time, during the day, without arousal, 4 days after an orgasm. This happened only one time. At the same time, I suddenly started to have more pilosity in a few months. The only thing that was not improved was endurance, even if physical strength (muscular tonus) was better. My ability to feel good after breathing exercises was also improved, this makes me think about what Underwater was saying about oxygenation.

Counterpoints, what about ACTH which is secreted by hypophysis to stimulate adrenals ? I think you were tested for this. Thanks for your suggestion for the 24h urine test for cortisol. Do you think it's enough, at first, to do the blood test ? It should show at least a tendency.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 04:07:28 by martin88 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3451 on: 13/02/2009 03:31:29 »
Martin, maybe there is something after all to the Taoists who claim semen retention = strength (among other things).
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3452 on: 13/02/2009 06:09:46 »

My current POIS theories

1) I think there may be something wrong with our pituitary glands or adrenal glands. 

2) The alternative (which I think is possibly more likely), is that we have a tumor (somewhere -- possibly pituitary or adrenal), which is being either chemically or physically stimulated by orgasm/ejaculation. 


I was shocked with the pituitary revelations of my bloodwork and Brain MRI, as you cited.

But my 75%+ cure (4th "O" in 4 days yesterday with only mild and quickly disappearing symptoms) also may point to Rob's depletion/replenishment theory ( [1] testosterone = efficient sperm replacement and [2] nitric oxide from Levitra, re-stimulating oxytocin, which has been depleted).

Counterpoints, is the above compatible with your pituitary/adrenal theory or completely different?

People with high cortisol problems often have low testosterone.  (As can people with pituitary problems, I think).  So yes, it fits in.  I actually have quite a high (but healthy) level of testosterone though. 
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 06:34:27 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3453 on: 13/02/2009 06:22:52 »

Counterpoints, what about ACTH which is secreted by hypophysis to stimulate adrenals ? I think you were tested for this. Thanks for your suggestion for the 24h urine test for cortisol. Do you think it's enough, at first, to do the blood test ? It should show at least a tendency.

As far as I understand, the hypothalamus releases CRH, which stimulates the anterior pituitary (Adenohypophysis) to release ACTH, which stimulates the adrenal glands to produce cortisol. 

My ACTH actually tested somewhat normal.  (14 pmol/L, ref: <15 pmol/L.  This goes with the 740 nmol/L reading).  As far as AM cortisol blood test vs. 24 hr urine... not sure.  The reference for an AM blood test is 150-690 nmol/L.  I have tested AM cortisol 3 times.  (560, 590, 740 nmol/L).  So two of these three times were "in reference"... but for my age, quite high, I think.  Nonetheless, I think they would have been disregarded by 90% of physicians -- even though it is very common amongst people with cushings and other cortisol problems to only test high-normal on the blood samples.

On the other hand, my 24 hr urine cortisol 515 nmol/d (ref: 30-220 nmol/d) is an obvious indicator of a problem.  What first caused me to worry about cortisol was a PM cortisol blood test I had (430 nmol/L, ref: 50-300 nmol/L). 

So, in short, I'm not sure.  I think if you get an AM blood test, and the result is < 300 nmol/L, a 24 hr urine test probably won't show anything.  It seems what's happening with me, is that cortisol is getting high during the night, when for most people it would be at its lowest.

(To those who don't know what a 24 hr urine test is, it's not a big deal.  You go to a lab, they give you a container.  You wake up the next morning.  You disregard your first "sample", and write down the time.  You continue to "collect" until 24 hours after the time you wrote down.  The container should be in the fridge when it is not being used for collection.  After the 24 hours, you give the container to the lab). 

I would like to note that my cortisol has been highest when I am symptomatic.  There seems to be a clear correlation between symptoms and cortisol levels.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 06:24:56 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3454 on: 13/02/2009 15:28:27 »
Some have had positive results from taking Levitra.  Levitra is a PDE5 inhibitor.  PDE5 is released  "at orgasm".  In men it resuts in the inability to get an erection right after ejaculation-the refractory period.
There are subforms of PDE5 some of which only effect the Corpus Cavernos um(Sp) of the Penis while others can effect blood vessels of the Brain, other smooth muscle tissues and the liver and heart.  The lack of blood flow through capillaries to the brain will result in dizziness, brain fog and mental fatigue.
The Wikipedia listing of pde5 and Pde5 inhibitors has some interesting links.
Other than Cialis, PDE5 inhibitors are are deactivated by food particularly fats.  That may explain why sometimes they seem to have a less effect after a while.           
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3455 on: 13/02/2009 16:28:43 »
I doubt weight could hav anything to do with these. I am considered obsese,but i exericese a moderated amount. is there anybody who is pretty fit and still has these problem.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3456 on: 13/02/2009 16:29:40 »
How long those it take for blood test to get done, i have not seen any results since two weeks i went to doctor.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3457 on: 13/02/2009 17:00:56 »

Some have had positive results from taking Levitra.  Levitra is a PDE5 inhibitor.  PDE5 is released  "at orgasm".  In men it resuts in the inability to get an erection right after ejaculation-the refractory period.
There are subforms of PDE5 some of which only effect the Corpus Cavernos um(Sp) of the Penis while others can effect blood vessels of the Brain, other smooth muscle tissues and the liver and heart.  The lack of blood flow through capillaries to the brain will result in dizziness, brain fog and mental fatigue.
The Wikipedia listing of pde5 and Pde5 inhibitors has some interesting links.
Other than Cialis, PDE5 inhibitors are are deactivated by food particularly fats.  That may explain why sometimes they seem to have a less effect after a while.           


Thanks, Finally! That explains a lot of what I have been thinking about.

Maybe it also explains why Cialis - which didn't work at all - was such a disaster for my POIS. It certainly appears to work differently than Levitra.

This forum is great: free consultation!!! :)
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 17:22:18 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3458 on: 13/02/2009 17:05:29 »

The only big step I've made is the result of my 24 hr urine cortisol test.


Counterpoints, I'm taking a cortisol AM blood test. Not comprehensive I know, but it's a start. If nothing else, it may contribute to our forum databases.

I'll post results here in about 27 days from now. Plus re-exams of prolactin, testosterone, etc.

I'm still pinching myself to see if I'm truly awake with this new treatment!
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 17:10:06 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3459 on: 13/02/2009 18:18:22 »
I doubt weight could hav anything to do with these. I am considered obsese,but i exericese a moderated amount. is there anybody who is pretty fit and still has these problem.

YES, this is an important observation.  People with Cushings, and cortisol problems, have trouble losing weight, despite good efforts to lose it (exercise and diet). 

When did you start gaining weight?  Are you still gaining weight, or is your weight stable?  Is fat disproportionately in face, collar bone, and stomach areas?  Do you have thin skin anywhere?  Do you have insomnia?  Do you have stretch marks? Do you bruise easily?  All important questions when trying to figure out whether cortisol could be part of the issue.

I am not obese. (My total height/weight ratio is pretty good).  I would probably be considered fit.  But I do show some of these signs. 
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 19:01:24 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3460 on: 13/02/2009 18:19:45 »

The only big step I've made is the result of my 24 hr urine cortisol test.


Counterpoints, I'm taking a cortisol AM blood test. Not comprehensive I know, but it's a start. If nothing else, it may contribute to our forum databases.

I'll post results here in about 27 days from now. Plus re-exams of prolactin, testosterone, etc.

I'm still pinching myself to see if I'm truly awake with this new treatment!


Good luck!  If possible, I would take the test when you are symptomatic.  And an AM Cortisol test is certainly useful.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 19:00:20 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3461 on: 13/02/2009 21:14:07 »

I would take the test when you are symptomatic.


I'm blessed: symptoms have been reduced from 4 days' harshness to just hours of mild symptoms!

Not bragging, CP, I just want to offer hope to others to show it's achievable. So don't give up, everyone!!!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3462 on: 13/02/2009 21:20:21 »

How long those it take for blood test to get done, i have not seen any results since two weeks i went to doctor.


CC, my reply post disappeared!

It shouldn't take more than 3 days. Call and blame your friend (me) that he says it shouldn't take that long.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3463 on: 13/02/2009 21:26:32 »



          Maybe it's our lucky day anyway!
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3464 on: 14/02/2009 00:35:30 »
Which blood tests CCconfucius?
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3465 on: 14/02/2009 01:40:12 »
I doubt weight could hav anything to do with these. I am considered obsese,but i exericese a moderated amount. is there anybody who is pretty fit and still has these problem.

YES, this is an important observation.  People with Cushings, and cortisol problems, have trouble losing weight, despite good efforts to lose it (exercise and diet). 

When did you start gaining weight?  Are you still gaining weight, or is your weight stable?  Is fat disproportionately in face, collar bone, and stomach areas?  Do you have thin skin anywhere?  Do you have insomnia?  Do you have stretch marks? Do you bruise easily?  All important questions when trying to figure out whether cortisol could be part of the issue.

I am not obese. (My total height/weight ratio is pretty good).  I would probably be considered fit.  But I do show some of these signs. 


I have lost weight before but that was before i notice pois.
I gained weight when i go to college when I got busy. and didnt stop my usual way of eating.
I used to  only have insomia during pois. I dont notice insomia anymore even during pois.
I dont bruise eaisly.
I have strecth marks, but isnt that normal when you are big. I only weigh like 207 nothing like 300


I read on the internet that obese men had less testorone than fit men.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3466 on: 14/02/2009 01:44:14 »

How long those it take for blood test to get done, i have not seen any results since two weeks i went to doctor.


CC, my reply post disappeared!

It shouldn't take more than 3 days. Call and blame your friend (me) that he says it shouldn't take that long.

I already started calling them, my family doctor took a month to tell me my overall blood test result.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3467 on: 14/02/2009 01:46:14 »
Which blood tests CCconfucius?
for total testertorne and free T( thanks to the forum i made sure he didnt forget that) and prolactin. This is the urologist
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3468 on: 14/02/2009 02:50:17 »

my family doctor took a month to tell me my overall blood test result.


That doesn't sound good at all, a month. Sorry to hear. Guess they need to be pushed.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3469 on: 14/02/2009 03:11:05 »
I already started calling them, my family doctor took a month to tell me my overall blood test result.

You should be able to get the lab to send you a copy of your results.  For tests like prolactin and testosterone, results will often be available the very next day.
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3470 on: 14/02/2009 03:21:20 »
Since I have had so much time recently between "O"s, I have been trying to address imbalances that I believe are possibly  connected to POIS. From these experiments, I hope to get some clue as to how to deal more comprehensively with POIS. For example, my POIS is worst during sleep at nighttime. I don't know why this is. Perhaps there are natural changes in cortisol during sleep. Since I don't generally sleep well, I'm using this as an opportunity to experiment. I haven't slept well two nights in a row for 21 months (during POIS or without). So I make the leap in logic that maybe if I can sleep well for extended periods of time, the therapy I have utilized might be of some help in addressing POIS.

I have kept records of my sleep now for over 50 days. It has been just the last week that I have finally slept well on two consecutive nights. For me, this is a relief.
I also feel calmer now during the day. I don't know how I am affecting any hormones or neurotransmitters, but I am affecting something. I won't know until I have an "O" if I have affected POIS. I credit my improvement to a large Vitamin B complex with a particular active derivitive of Vitamin B9, Methylfolate. It regulates the synthesis of norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin.  For the last two weeks I have also be experimenting with amino acids; in particular L theanine and 5htp. But I open up the capsules and take very little powder, very little. About a week ago, goingcrazy mentioned phenylalanine. I also added dl phenylalanine to my amino acid mix. Just in case a possible autoinflammatory condition exists, I added fish oil therapy. I take about 4-3 capsules of fish oil daily. I hope this success continues. Since I generally don't post specific experiments I make, perhaps this may lead to something. I don't like to talk about short successes, because I don't want to jinx myself.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3471 on: 14/02/2009 12:35:30 »
Really good to see this thread thriving so well. Who would have thought it would be so many pages in length ? 

Big respect goes to you all for creating this support network. A special mention must go to Demografx who has put in so much work to keeping this thread alive and well. He is the  backbone.

Well done to ALL of you for your reciprocal support for oneanother !


 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3472 on: 14/02/2009 14:54:57 »
Martin, maybe there is something after all to the Taoists who claim semen retention = strength (among other things).
Difficult to have a proof of this, but it sounds very true. Sometimes I'm starting to lose hope I'll know one day, even with all the progress we have made, there is still no real study on us to explain where is the problem.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3473 on: 14/02/2009 20:10:22 »



HEY EVERYBODY, I HATE THIS EXPRESSION BUT CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER ONE RIGHT NOW: SO.....LET'S KILL 2 BIRDS WITH ONE STONE!

(1) IT'S NEIL aka NEILEP'S BIRTHDAY TODAY!! - NEIL/NEILEP IS OUR FORUM THREAD'S VERY GOOD  FRIEND FROM NAKED SCIENCE FORUM. 

(2) AND IN JUST A FEW DAYS, FEBRUARY 18, 2009, IT'S OUR SECOND (2ND) ANNIVERSARY/BIRTHDAY OF THE  P O I S  THREAD OF THE NAKED SCIENCE FORUM!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE HERE, POSTERS AND LURKERS ALIKE - WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED A BREATHTAKINGLY RAPID REVOLUTION IN THE SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING AND TREATMENT OF 
P O I S!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best wishes to all,
Demo


« Last Edit: 14/02/2009 21:47:20 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3474 on: 14/02/2009 20:35:48 »
Really good to see this thread thriving so well. Who would have thought it would be so many pages in length ? 

Big respect goes to you all for creating this support network. A special mention must go to Demografx who has put in so much work to keeping this thread alive and well. He is the  backbone.

Well done to ALL of you for your reciprocal support for oneanother !




Many thanks, Neil, and thank you so much for being the most incredibly supportive friend one could ever hope for! Happy Birthday!!
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3474 on: 14/02/2009 20:35:48 »

 

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