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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6424847 times)

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3675 on: 03/03/2009 15:52:50 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3676 on: 03/03/2009 16:17:51 »
Ambient, you might want to obtain Dr Waldinger's paper. Just send a Private Message to "pyropeach" requesting it, and give him your regular email address so he can send the PDF.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 16:33:41 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3677 on: 03/03/2009 16:36:55 »
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 16:39:56 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3678 on: 03/03/2009 18:02:35 »
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 18:18:21 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3679 on: 03/03/2009 18:07:19 »
Quote

I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors,


Martin and Demo,

It seems to me too that testosterone absorbtion can be the culprit, even if it does not show up in low levels of free testosterone in the blood. As Martin mentioned, there may be a deficit in androgen receptors. If that were the case, we should probably still observe symptoms that are similar to hypogonadism, right?  Question is, what test would be available to identify this problem of low androgen receptors?


Rob, could "ask the endocrinologist" links above (immediately preceding post) be a type of source to ask your excellent question about androgen receptors?
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 18:20:06 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3680 on: 04/03/2009 00:32:03 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?



Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.
 

Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3681 on: 04/03/2009 01:20:14 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?



Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.

Several years ago I tried taking antihistiminesfor POIS.  I noticed a slight improvement.  After a while they seemed to make me tired themselves.
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3682 on: 04/03/2009 02:08:41 »
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks to you Finally :)

Well, i have done a little research, and found an amino acid that reduces histamines, it's called methionine.

Taken from an article i read:

"Histamine levels will decrease and symptoms lessen in response to daily doses of methionine, an amino acid that significantly detoxifies histamine by methylating the ring structure forming N-methyl-histamine in the brain. Typical dose is a 500 mg capsule taken four times daily"

Has anyone tried methionine as a POIS cure?
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3683 on: 04/03/2009 03:10:10 »
Finally & Ambient
I'm not sure that basic antihistamines (oxymetazoline) will work. Waldinger is talking about autoinflammatory issues. If histamines are released as triggers for orgasm/ejaculation, there may be a more complex chemistry involved afterwards. Even if it is just Histamines (my hope), there may be other therapies needed to reduce POIS. I'm aware of Methionine, Quercetin, corticosteroids etc, but these may not be totally effective. It just seems that POIS for me comes on like an allergy, hits a peak like an allergy and fades like an allergy. I can see why oxymetazoline is ineffective.
It's like giving yourself a jolt of adrenaline on top of Histamines. It may work for stuffed sinuses etc, but epinephrine, seratonin, dopamine, cortisol, prolactin etc. are all probably sky high at Orgasm (along with other pro-inflammatory proteins), and a basic antihistamine may do more harm than good. There may be a simple answer, but it will probably take a whole bunch of experimentation if the Histamine theory is valid. Maybe a combination of therapies. I've wiped myself out over the last two weeks just to come to this result. It sure seems the most obvious for me, but who knows?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3684 on: 04/03/2009 05:59:39 »
Approx 280 Results from searching Histamines on previous forum posts. Put this in to Google search box:

Histamines pois site:http://thenakedscientists.com

Careful with spaces vs. no-spaces and placement of two colons.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 17:45:39 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3685 on: 04/03/2009 11:23:27 »
Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3686 on: 04/03/2009 12:01:59 »
Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.
Underwater, perhaps you'll be interested to search for the following keywords: histadelia, histapenia. Maybe pois is attacking where we're weak and that's why you have similar symptoms, but it's interesting, I'll read more on allergies.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 12:19:49 by martin88 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3687 on: 04/03/2009 16:04:32 »

Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?


Not completely. B_Jim, Counterpoints, Martin, Underwater, John21, anyone else: do you agree? I think it has been dismissed by this forum as a POIS cure-all. But just for the depressive symptoms, I still think SSRI's can help. They helped my depression overall somewhat, and it's hard for me to distingush historically between my POIS-depression and non-POIS depression.

Either way, the article, written by a psychiatrist, helps in my opinion to establish credibility with medical doctors, including endocrinologists (mine liked it) who want us to "just go see a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, this (POIS) is all in your head"!

This article + Waldinger's paper are very useful in my opinion - to show/convince medical personnel to take us seriously!
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 16:46:09 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3688 on: 04/03/2009 16:36:29 »

Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?


Martin, I conducted a science experiment just for you :D

On two recent occasions, I took Levitra several hours afterwards. My guess is that testosterone accounts for 70% to 80% of the healing, for me.

I should add that Rx-stimulants also play a role in my POIS healing, including caffeine (the latter which I have cut back significantly as per doctor's orders).

My guess is that Rx stimulants + caffeine together account for 10%+ of the healing.

Martin, as I'm sure you can appreciate, statistics are difficult to estimate based on such subjective experiences with constantly shifting variables such as mood, refractory periods, etc.
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3689 on: 04/03/2009 18:02:52 »
Short update:
I am going to see a top endocrinologist next week. Who has extensive knowledge about adrenals, thyroid, testosteron and all. I am much inspired by the successes on this forum, so thank you all for sharing! For the last year and a half I had been seeing 3 Chinese doctors who blamed it on the kidney yin, qi and yang, their herbs did help but nowhere near curing. Before that, Western docs easily blamed my mind.

Anyone who wants to test, read the surprising manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription. Edit: I have found testing facilities at regular hospitals to get tested as well. It might give you a head start but not replacing doc's opinion. Of course this is not medical advice.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 21:24:27 by rock27 »
 

Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3690 on: 04/03/2009 18:18:09 »
Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.
Underwater, perhaps you'll be interested to search for the following keywords: histadelia, histapenia. Maybe pois is attacking where we're weak and that's why you have similar symptoms, but it's interesting, I'll read more on allergies.

has anyone had their histamine levels tested? If the theory is that too much histamine is produced than taking zinc, vitamin B, folic acid and protein is actually bad because this increases the histamine level. However, if there is a deficit (too much histamine let out in ejac) that taking the essential vitamins and eating alolt of meat would help. From past discussions it seems that the vitamins and protein helped.

Am very confused on which way to go.... does anyone know how to get histamine tests?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3691 on: 04/03/2009 18:20:06 »

Short update:
I am going to see a top endocrinologist next week. Who has extensive knowledge about adrenals, thyroid, testosteron and all. I am much inspired by the successes on this forum, so thank you all for sharing! For the last year and a half I had been seeing 3 Chinese doctors who blamed it on the kidney yin, qi and yang, their herbs did help but nowhere near curing. Before that, Western docs easily blamed my mind.


Rock, congratulations on your upcoming endocrinologist appointment! I, too, gave Oriental Medicine a try, but I think the answers are still with Western docs, as frustrating as they can be sometimes. We just need to manage Western docs better.

We're making progress!!
 

Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3692 on: 04/03/2009 19:32:52 »
A useful site on histamine. In order to know ones histamine level a sophisticated blood plasma test may be required. Has anyone had this?

newbielink:http://www.goldbaum.net/balance/Whats_Histamine.html [nonactive]

Also, a histamine diet is available. Experimenting with this may be useful.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3693 on: 04/03/2009 20:04:54 »

does anyone know how to get histamine tests?


I called my university lab, and they said if you go to your doctor and say you want allergy testing, he could provide you with a lab order for "histamine testing" but they said that the word "histamine is too general" according to this lab. They said that your doctor can order the specific test(s) needed or refer you to a specialist who would give you an order for the test(s).

You would then take the order to the lab of the doctor's (yours or the referred doc's) choice. Be sure to check with your doctor on the best way to do this for insurance.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 20:11:48 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3694 on: 04/03/2009 20:43:55 »

Anyone who wants to test, read the excellent manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription.


I'd like to add my endocrinologist's warning that "saliva testing is very inaccurate". My endo prefers blood tests always. However, some specific tests might only be available with saliva or urine. My endo was referring to testosterone, prolactin and the like.

Also, some docs will only accept results for follow-up treatment from "a respected lab." I assume that this rules out many "mail order" or no-prescription-required labs.  This is a vague area, but you should be aware of this controversy and advise the doctor you wish to work with as to which lab you're contemplating so that there won't be any misunderstandings later.

Rock, I don't know enough to say who is right or who is wrong. But as moderator, I simply want to have both sides presented fairly, so that you and the readers here can make up their own mind.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 05:41:05 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3695 on: 04/03/2009 20:55:28 »
POIS and SSRI's----------
I have no experience with SSRI's and POIS, but I do have experience with Valium and POIS. Valium helped considerably for the 3 months I took it. POIS was very tolerable.
But now, Valium is toxic to me. Very strange, but true.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3696 on: 04/03/2009 21:16:20 »

POIS and SSRI's----------
I have no experience with SSRI's and POIS, but I do have experience with Valium and POIS. Valium helped considerably for the 3 months I took it. POIS was very tolerable.
But now, Valium is toxic to me. Very strange, but true.


Interesting, Underwater. Valium seems like a good GAD fighter. But I guess our bodies metamorphose now and then!
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3697 on: 04/03/2009 21:47:12 »

Anyone who wants to test, read the excellent manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription.

I'd like to add my endocrinologist's warning that "saliva testing is very inaccurate". My endo prefers blood tests always. However, some specific tests might only be available with saliva or urine. My endo was referring to testosterone, prolactin and the like.

A physician friend was talking to a really good endocrinologist, who said that salviary tests are often the best tests for cortisol.  (Partly because you can easily take very important late night tests... cortisol is supposed to be suppressed at night, so it is helpful to get a late-night reading).

It's important that whatever tests you're taking are controlled enough that a physician will recognize them though.  There are FDA approved salviary tests.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3698 on: 04/03/2009 21:54:30 »

Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?


Not completely. B_Jim, Counterpoints, Martin, Underwater, John21, anyone else: do you agree? I think it has been dismissed by this forum as a POIS cure-all. But just for the depressive symptoms, I still think SSRI's can help. They helped my depression overall somewhat, and it's hard for me to distingush historically between my POIS-depression and non-POIS depression.

Either way, the article, written by a psychiatrist, helps in my opinion to establish credibility with medical doctors, including endocrinologists (mine liked it) who want us to "just go see a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, this (POIS) is all in your head"!

This article + Waldinger's paper are very useful in my opinion - to show/convince medical personnel to take us seriously!

I think the article is useful, but it's conclusions aren't very strong.  It's not a rigorous discussion.  We don't really get much information about the symptoms, and so on. 

As far as SSRIs helping.... there are some mixed results.  Zoloft supposedly helped one person with POIS.  Each SSRI will vary.  Prozak is "good" (ironically) in the sense that it tends to reduce sexual functioning more than the others.

Others here have had very negative experiences with SSRIs.  And others yet, have had neutral experiences.  e.g. with these people it affects mood but not POIS.

So no, SSRIs are not the big answer.  But they might be worth including in your experimentation.
 

Offline neverstop

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3699 on: 04/03/2009 22:03:30 »
Hello all,
This, my first post here will be brief, but as a long time sufferer (who admits to being too embarrassed to speak to my Dr.) of POIS, I did at least wish to stop by and provide my thoughts from the perspective of one who (like many here I see) never stops seeking answers to most aspects of life. I need to be brief, as, at this moment I have a bit of the "brain fog"(unrelated to POIS) which I find to be the "hallmark" and most debilitating aspect of this post orgasmic condition. As I have tirelessly sought relief for a severe accident caused spinal condition, I have been observing, testing, researching, and continually adding to my ever larger body of successful self treatments, devices, and nutritional supplements. As a side benefit, I have observed that my pois symptoms have changed throughout and within the last 2 weeks the addition of L-Tyrosine has apparently provided the final puzzle piece for me and I thought I'd begin my own discussion with all of you at this time.
1. I think that pois will be different for everyone depending on age, general health, and many other factors.
2. I believe that the orgasmic "refractory period" and general sexual interest observations played a big factor.
3. Sleep and neuro-chemical depletion of the 4 primary transmitters plays in BIG. Dopamine-Acetylcholine-GABA-Seratonin
4. Supplementation with their precursors is vital for a balance of proper brain functioning.
5. The neurotransmitters have an associated hormone that plays a significant part and my testosterone cream took me down the right path.

Got to Go!

Will be back

My best

Never-Stop
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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