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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6426442 times)

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3850 on: 12/03/2009 20:34:09 »
INFLAMMATION:

I think inflammation could be a cause of POIS.  I notice the "burning" in my prostate area (possible sign of inflammation), plus the cortisol (which could be to combat inflammation).  When POIS was discussed on ISSM, they mentioned inflammation too. A very smart friend mentioned that I might want to test for c-reactive protein, while symptomatic.

Look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-reactive_protein

It seems like this would be a good test of the inflammation theory. "CRP is a member of the class of acute-phase reactants as its levels rise dramatically during inflammatory processes occurring in the body".

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_specific_antigen
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 20:38:20 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3851 on: 12/03/2009 22:44:46 »
Very good Cp ! Ok for c-reactive protein. I have never heard of Psa. Do you think it could be the mysterious antigen we search as the starting point of the allergic chain ? If Pois is an immune response , what is the antigen ?  ;D.Do you think psa is released with orgasm ? If it is so "easy" why any doctor didn't think about it before.
I don't have specific pain in the prostate area. But Underwater and a lot of sufferers have it.

I'm not sure about the likelihood of us being allergic to PSA.  (Small probably).  (If we were though, this might also explain any burning sensation, or inflammation). I'm not sure why a physician hasn't mentioned this before (this or c-reactive protein). PSA probably hasn't been mentioned because it is usually used to test for prostate problems in men over 50 (or so I think).  And also because not many physicians have thought about this problem.  Different people will have different ideas.  The friend I mentioned is an extremely intelligent MD; I haven't said too much about POIS to him, but I mentioned some symptoms, and he told me about c-reactive protein and PSA.

It says right in wiki article about PSA that "both total and free PSA increase immediately after ejaculation, returning slowly to baseline levels within 24 hours".  Based on the info in the article, I can also see a possible explanation for why, occasionally, orgasm may alleviate symptoms.  "PSA is produced for the ejaculate where it liquifies the semen and allows sperm to swim freely.[1] It is also believed to be instrumental in dissolving the cervical mucous cap, allowing the entry of sperm".

Now, I don't know if PSA normally causes any symptoms.  If PSA is involved in our symptoms, there are four likely explanations I see:
1) It merely indicates there is some other prostate related problem that is causing symptoms
2) We are allergic to it somehow, or it sets off some reaction that causes problems for us
3) POIS PSA levels are extremely high after orgasm, and this somehow causes symptoms.
4) Not enough PSA is released?

"Extremely high" would not be ambiguous, since "a (1986) study that found 99% of 472 apparently healthy men had a total PSA level below 4 ng/mL—the upper limit of normal is much less than 4 ng/mL"

We could probably figure out how to test 2).

1) would be useful, at least, to know if prostate is involved in this problem.

3) might be suggested if our PSA levels are higher than even cancer patients.

In any case, for these two tests, CRA and PSA, it would be very important to take them while symptomatic.  Preferably not long after orgasm.
Also, CRA would be useful to test for inflammation, prostate or otherwise.

And PSA has a high false positive rate.  So unless PSA is REALLY elevated, it may be hard to tell anything. 
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 23:22:03 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3852 on: 13/03/2009 00:59:41 »
LEVITRA SUBSTITUTE FOR NON-E.D. POIS?

I've been thinking lately that, with the success of my treatment for POIS, it would be a shame if it only generalizes to a population that has ED (which Levitra targets).

I'm leaving out the testosterone discussion for now. That is not as age-sensitive, I think, as Levitra.

Let's think of what ingredients might be working in Levitra for a group of POIS sufferers, but stretching beyond the ED set. Nitric oxide? Then let's translate that into something that has a nitric oxide stimulant for people who don't need an ED treatment!

Horny Goat Weed, the Chinese herb, has been brought up as an example. I know, they should change the name.

I'm not suggesting that testosterone + Levitra is "the cure-all for POIS". But my guess is that it has universal application to a certain sub-set of POIS sufferers. A starting point I think would be the POIS sufferers who have some form of testosterone deficiency but don't need Levitra-for-ED.

Or maybe, under doctor's careful supervision, a very low dose of Levitra could be tried for those with testosterone deficiency but no ED?

Starting 7 years ago with testosterone injection only, and with more experiments over the last 2 years, one thing I have learned is that testosterone and Levitra won't make a 90%+ dent in my POIS independently; they work together for maximum effectiveness.

As B_Jim, Counterpoints et al point out, eventually we will have a number of different treatments for different symptom-groups and perhaps by demographics.

Any other thoughts on this, please? Thanks!
« Last Edit: 13/03/2009 01:24:47 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3853 on: 13/03/2009 01:33:06 »

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)


FWIW, my PSA has been routinely tested as normal over the years.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3854 on: 13/03/2009 01:41:43 »

Whenever the orgasm is mentioned it seems as if that is when they want to start talking about that  uncle that gave you one too many gifts


 ;D
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3855 on: 13/03/2009 14:20:17 »
Demografx, once again i congratulate you on your POIS success.

So would you now say that you are 95-100% cured?

Was it the low testosterone that caused your POIS?
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3856 on: 13/03/2009 17:17:15 »
AUTO-IMMUNE TEST

I was talking to the same physician friend who mentioned CRP and PSA.  I asked him whether he thought I could be allergic to PSA.  He seemed to think it was unlikely (but not impossible).  BUT, afterwards, he said that auto-immune disorders can have unusual symptom clusters like this, and mentioned that I could take an Anti-nuclear antibody (ANA) test.

This looks like an extremely promising test of the 'auto-immune' theory! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_antibody

"Anti-nuclear antibodies (ANAs, also known as anti-nuclear factor or ANF) are antibodies directed against contents of the cell nucleus.[1]

They are present in higher than normal numbers in autoimmune disease. The ANA test measures the pattern and amount of autoantibody which can attack the body's tissues as if they were foreign material. Autoantibodies are present in low titers in the general population, but in about 5% of the population, their concentration is increased, and about half of this 5% have an autoimmune disease."

He also said I might consider an anti-DNA test. (After an ANA test).

So now it looks like we have 3-4 tests which could easily verify whether this is
- inflammation
- auto-immune
- prostate related

PS.  I was reading more about auto-immune diseases, and this caught my attention:
"Symptoms tend to appear during or shortly after puberty"
« Last Edit: 13/03/2009 17:46:17 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3857 on: 13/03/2009 19:17:13 »

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)


FWIW, my PSA has been routinely tested as normal over the years.

Thanks for the info.  It might be worth getting a test while symptomatic, or post-orgasm.  But PSA levels themselves may or may not say anything -- it might be more how we are reacting to them.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3858 on: 13/03/2009 19:17:42 »
Thanks B_Jim.  It is always nice to read your thoughts.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3859 on: 13/03/2009 23:34:27 »

Demografx, once again i congratulate you on your POIS success.

So would you now say that you are 95-100% cured?

Was it the low testosterone that caused your POIS?


Thanks again, Ambient! Yes, I'd say 90% - 97% cured! Hard to quantify: I basically have a few hours immediately after with very mild symptoms, then voila! Previously, I've taken up to 1-2 weeks to fully recover. (The norm was 4 days, but the discouragement would linger - after so many years of this).

I really don't know what caused the POIS. All I know is that now, 30+ years later, what does work for me today is a combination of testosterone + Levitra. Individually, they are not nearly as effective. Eventually, the "why" answers will come, but I'm not going to spoil the fun by agonizing too much. Please don't take that as negative, but there are just too many mysteries to solve - in my particular case, and with the "science" of orgasm, and also with the POIS malady in general. Best wishes again.
« Last Edit: 14/03/2009 02:41:31 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3860 on: 14/03/2009 03:49:22 »
Again, I am pleased that after so many years you have found your successful treatment. I assume that after your mild symptoms have faded, you feel clear-headed, motivated, and energetic?

I dream of that day, and im sure it will come sooner or later.

For a while, i myself have suspected Testosterone to be the predominant player in my POIS, due, for example, to my symptoms, which are very consistent with Low Testosterone

Low Testosterone Symptoms (http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/symptoms-of-low-testosterone.html):

Physical

- Fatigue.
- Reduced muscle mass.
- Reduced strength.
- Osteoporosis.
- Higher incidence of sudden death from heart attack.
- High cholesterol (high LDL/low HDL).
- Impotence.
- Low libido.
- Long refractory period (time it takes to have sex again).
- Low sperm count.
- Enlarged breasts (gyno/gynecomastia).


Mental

- Brain fog (inability to concentrate).
- Poor memory.


Emotional

- Depression.
- Mood swings.
- Irritability.
- Lack of motivation.


My main symptoms, at their peak, are:

- Depression
- Wild mood swings
- Fatigue
- Very low motivation
- Very irritable (wanting arguments)
- Strong brain fog (brain seems to be engulfed in thick haze)
- Poor memory
- Terrible attention and concentration span
- Poor strength
- Low Libido

Thus, as well as Dopamine, i feel that Testosterone is playing a part in my POIS symptoms. I intend to set up an appointment with a new doctor (my previous doctor failed to understand it as a physical condition) and enquire about getting my Total and Free Testosterone tested. Would you recommend this, Demografx?



« Last Edit: 14/03/2009 03:51:09 by Ambient123 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3861 on: 14/03/2009 18:29:19 »

Again, I am pleased that after so many years you have found your successful treatment. I assume that after your mild symptoms have faded, you feel clear-headed, motivated, and energetic?


Yes, exactly right: clear-headed, motivated and energetic. Perfect description.


I dream of that [POIS-free] day, and I'm sure it will come sooner or later.


That was the hardest part, maintaining faith and confidence. I'm greatly pleased with your statement of confidence.


Would you recommend this, Demografx? [Total and Free Testosterone testing].


Absolutely! I recommend that to everyone who suspects a testosterone deficiency. Also, test for bioavailable testosterone, LH, SHGB, and FSH. It's standard.

Back in 2002, I contacted a Czech sex therapist, whom I was referred to after I stumped experts here in the U.S. about POIS. His immediate reaction was "Testosterone!". It's taken me 7 years to finally understand that he was right. But I had to eventually modify my early success by finding a good endocrinologist, going from injection to T-patches, and adding Levitra. My biggest mistake was giving up on testosterone, but I now see why I did. Keep in mind, that to cure POIS, your role as a "patient" has to be upgraded to partner, maybe leader. You know more about POIS than most MD's.
« Last Edit: 14/03/2009 18:39:01 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3862 on: 14/03/2009 18:46:00 »
Demografx, thanks very much for your guidance. It certainly is frustrating that MD's, who are certainly very clever, are unable to appreciate a concept such as POIS. I intend to arrange for a Testosterone test.

 I had one more thought:

Basically for years, i had consumed endless amounts of caffeine and sugar through such foods and drinks as Chocolate, Tea, Biscuits etc. If i am being fully honest, i could consume an entire ten-pack of Mars Bars in one sitting. That is how extreme it was at one stage. As you can imagine, this wreaked havoc on my body and mind.

I am aware that over-stimulation from such substances causes "Adrenal Exhaustion", which depletes hormones such as Testosterone.

Now since My Over-stimulation was rather extreme and long-term, could it be possible that my adrenals are still "exhausted" as it were, in spite of the fact that i have long since given up sugar and caffeine?

Basically, what i am asking is: Does adrenal exhaustion go away after sugar and caffeine are stopped, or are the adrenals permanently low until treatment is issued?

The reason I feel this is because my POIS symptoms are very similar to those i experienced during over-stimulation, such as:

Depression
Fatigue
Poor Attention span
Inability to concentrate
Brain fog
Terrible memory
No motivation
etc...

(PS. I am asking this because my POIS may stem from low adrenal funtion due to long-term over-stimulation. And since hormones such as Testosterone are implicated in orgasm, i am wondering if my orgasms are aggrevating my adrenal problems)

Thanks

Hope to hear from you soon

Ambient
« Last Edit: 14/03/2009 18:56:01 by Ambient123 »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3863 on: 14/03/2009 20:33:03 »
Another quick theory:

Since Adrena exhaustion is characterised by low cortisol, then since orgasms further reduce cortisol levels, then it could be argued that Adrenal Exhaustion is aggravated by orgasm
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3864 on: 14/03/2009 21:00:38 »

Demografx, thanks very much for your guidance. It certainly is frustrating that MD's, who are certainly very clever, are unable to appreciate a concept such as POIS. I intend to arrange for a Testosterone test.


Most MD's are clueless about us because POIS is rare and hardly ever studied (an extreme understatement! :D).

And as B_Jim points out, the science of orgasm is in its infancy.

I'm delighted that you are testing your T-levels!


I am aware that over-stimulation from such substances [caffeine/sugar] causes "Adrenal Exhaustion", which depletes hormones such as Testosterone.


The concept of "adrenal fatigue" is controversial. Others here may subscribe to the theory, but I tend to pay much more attention to the "knowns". That has worked for me so far. Interesting article on the controversy:
http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-is-adrenal-fatigue.html

Has caffeine/sugar contributed to my T-depletion? Maybe. Has excessive sex in early years contributed to POIS? Maybe. Food/beverage/substance overindulgence? Maybe.

But now, it's 2009, and my T-level without treatment is low - for whatever reason -  and by treating it (and ED), POIS is finally resolved, after a "murderous" effect on my life. Caffeine and sugar continue to affect me in many ways so I have cut back. That's as far as I wish to go in thinking about it. Maybe I'm just too impatient?

But others have a completely different viewpoint about adrenal fatigue, and also about my "pragmatic-only" approach and I respect that.

Thanks, Ambient, for the questions, I appreciate them.
« Last Edit: 15/03/2009 04:41:57 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3865 on: 14/03/2009 21:15:06 »
Certainly, Demografx, i understand differing viewpoints, and am willing to accept other possibilities.

It just seems rather too coincidental that my POIS symptoms mirror those of adrenal exhaustion (AE). I suppose that once i am tested for my T levels, that will be a good indicator.

In my case, with all the caffeine i used to consume, it seems to me that the adrenal theory makes the most sense as far as my POIS is concerned.

I noticed that some people on here had significant POIS success with DHEA. I wonder if they too may have suffered from adrenal problems, and the DHEA acted as adrenal support. It is an interesting thought, and one which i may pursue.

Indeed, Testosterone is also implicated in AE, since it is an adrenal hormone, and it may be simply a case of having to top up the T levels to a normal level, and since T levels drop after orgasm, it may be that my already low Testosterone is aggravated.

Apologies for boring you all with this theory, but i am eager to pursue it.

One thing i intend to try is DHEA, though in the UK, it is not sold as supplements (or at least not to my knowledge)

Do you have advice as to where i could purchase some?

 
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3866 on: 14/03/2009 21:25:17 »
Ambient, forum posts about DHEA:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+DHEA+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

After you click on a link you're interested in, you need to use Ctrl + F and type keyword(s) to find the specific post you're looking for.
« Last Edit: 15/03/2009 03:05:48 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3867 on: 14/03/2009 21:31:48 »
Thanks Demografx, i will looke through these carefully.

Do you know where i could purchase DHEA? Because as i said, the UK does not sell it as a supplement (so far as im aware)

Thanks again

Ambient
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3868 on: 14/03/2009 22:05:14 »
My MD was thinking about testosterone shortage as well. And then he also sent me for tests on adrenals, thyroid. I don't know the truth about the human body either, Ambient. The only advice I can give is to find a good doc and get tested! Anyway, I am glad I got tested this week. Did the test in-pois feeling hellish. Results in less than 2 months. Will report back here.
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3869 on: 14/03/2009 22:11:11 »
Rock27,

Glad to hear you got tested and all the best for your results with respect to your POIS.

Do i misunderstand, or did you say that you will have to wait for two months to receive your test results?
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3870 on: 14/03/2009 23:05:41 »
Did the test in-pois feeling hellish.
Not something I'd like to do too often!

Ambient, me too I was consuming too much junk (sugar,chocolate, ..) when I was young. I think it can be one of the causes.
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3871 on: 14/03/2009 23:13:41 »
Yes indeed Martin, i am now running with the Adrenal Exhaustion theory.

The biggest clue for me is the complete similarity between my POIS symptoms and those of Over-stimulation and the rebound after the caffeine wears off.

The fact is, all signs point to it, and i intend to follow it up.

May i ask you to share your experiences of Sugar and Caffeine excess? They may prove very helpful to me

Also, have you tested for Adrenal Insufficiency?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3872 on: 15/03/2009 03:00:27 »
Ambient, I thought you might find a posted purchase source by a forum member for DHEA in that list of links.
« Last Edit: 15/03/2009 04:08:47 by demografx »
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3873 on: 15/03/2009 04:47:33 »
Oh, thanks Demografx. :)

The only thing im concerned about (and i know i'll sound pessimistic) is that i'll spend money on DHEA supplements, and they'll be fakes

I hear some online supplement sites do this.

Are you aware of any good sites i could try?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3874 on: 15/03/2009 04:56:26 »
Ambient, I'm more pessimistic than you. I don't trust ANY of them :D

But here's one site that I trust on DHEA:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altmed/altmed-mono.aspx?contentFileName=ame0061.xml&contentName=DHEA&contentId=224

Also, Ambient, if you are taking any prescription medicine, I would strongly urge that you ask your pharmacist to look at the interaction effect between DHEA and your other medicines.
« Last Edit: 15/03/2009 05:02:35 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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