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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6452989 times)

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3925 on: 20/03/2009 22:22:40 »
Hey everyone

I hamy doctors appointment today, and he has set up a Cortisol blood and urine test to determine whether or not my Adrenals are functioning properly. He feels it could be an underlying cause of my POIS

My test is on 31st, so i will report back when the test is done.

I am then due to phone my doctor the following week to discuss my results and form the necessary arrangements. :)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3926 on: 21/03/2009 00:42:49 »
Ambient, congratulations on the progress and best wishes for the next step!
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3927 on: 21/03/2009 02:48:22 »
Quote
I had allergies before the first ejaculation.
I took Reglan ...

Reglan for allergies ? It seems used for stomach , what is the link with allergies ?
No link B_Jim, it was two separate comments, I was not clear  :) . I took Reglan only for nausea. It raises prolactin and is contraindicated for people with depression.

Underwater,
According to a lot of sources Paxil is good for social phobia and PE. There is more withdrawals symptoms than for other antidepressants when you stop (this info is from health canada, a government agency).
There is a good site explaining this : http://www.quitpaxil.info/Main/symptoms.htm
Like you I'd like to know more from Staystrong.

From health canada again, Celexa is the safest for the liver (less cases of problems).

Thanks Wellness for your post and information about Deprenyl. Each time someone make a report I hope we're more important for the scientific community.

« Last Edit: 21/03/2009 05:44:18 by martin88 »
 

Offline wellness

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3928 on: 21/03/2009 04:19:30 »
You're welcome Martin-
I'll start taking Deprenyl in small doses starting in August--I"ll update you on how it affects my condition.
I'm trying to establish a new baseline with Neurofeedback before I start taking any drugs,nutraceuticals, or mind altering supplements/herbs.
I'm very excited about how neurofeedback coherence training has alleviated POIS symptoms. Come August, maybe I won't need the Deprenyl! :)
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3929 on: 21/03/2009 22:46:21 »
Hey everyone,

Just an update on my symptoms.

It has been nearly two weeks since my last...discharge, shall we say? :). And I am noticing that some symptoms are returning, such as cloudy thinking, some fatigue, and low mood (but not depression). I feel that the adrenal theory still holds up, since it simply means that an orgasm aggravates the condition, there is a brief spell (of several days to a week) after refraining from orgasming for a week that the symptoms are "Less Noticable", only to return again after two weeks or so.

Can't wait to have this cortisol test.

One question i had for the cortisol test:

Would you recommend that i Orgasm a day or two before the test so as to have to test during the worst of my symptoms, or would you recommend that i refrain and take the test as normal?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3930 on: 22/03/2009 00:17:10 »
Hi Ambient,

There are differing viewpoints about when to test. I tested nonsymptomatic only. But I had no particular strategy in mind, I just wanted to get moving quickly once I decided to do the testing, which was offered to me to do immediately after my first endo visit.

By testing out-of-POIS it revealed to me and endo a chronic testosterone deficiency plus hyperprolactinemia.

You also have a 3rd option: in-POIS and out-of-POIS test-comparison.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2009 00:14:35 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3931 on: 22/03/2009 04:10:11 »

I have been getting some positive feedback lately from my experiments with frozen cherries from Trader Joe's. They are great for snacks and desserts. Very tasty anti-inflammatories.



Yes, cherries have a strong inflammatory effect like most of berries (anthocyanin). A study show cherries are very effective to reduce myalgias after sport. I read cherry is 10 times better than aspirin to reduce inflammation. And cherries may be rich in melatonin (for a natural source). A great natural med.


Underwater, and B_Jim, I recently discovered the following treat, cherry cordials creme kisses from Hershey. Anti-inflammatory or not: YUM! :)




AND FROM B_JIM'S PRE-POIS-TREATMENT PRIVATE STASH!!>>>>>>

« Last Edit: 22/03/2009 04:28:02 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3932 on: 22/03/2009 22:22:20 »
Hi B_Jim,

If I took an "adrenal fatigue" approach to my POIS, instead of testosterone deficiency, do you think my treatment might be very different?
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3933 on: 23/03/2009 04:21:23 »
Ambient,
Like B_Jim, I think you should take the first test(s) when you are feeling most symptomatic.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3934 on: 23/03/2009 04:27:33 »
There may be a critical connection between testosterone and androgens and the so-called "adrenal"/cortisol approach.

I was thinking about testing an anti-androgen, to see how it affects my symptoms (and to decrease my sex drive).  So I read more about them.  And it turns out they significantly lower cortisol!. Very significantly.  This is extremely interesting.

This, together with the fact that the pituitary both regulates sex hormones and cortisol levels, suggests there may a strong adrenal/androgen connection that has escaped most people/research.

Also, the adrenals themselves produce small amounts of testosterone.
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3935 on: 23/03/2009 05:07:36 »
I've been pursuing the autoimmune thesis with a focus on histamine release at orgasm.
This essentially derives from my efforts to combat my GAD. I now suspect that my anxiety condition may find its ultimate trigger in excess histamine production.
Thus, I hope that both conditions derive from the same source. There is a lifetime of connections suggesting this - as well as my current symptoms. I have been personally observing/experimenting with histamine reduction. If I can solve GAD with this approach, I'm cautiously optimistic that it will translate to my cure of POIS. It's kind of like a unified field theory. Of course I've fallen flat in the past, and this may be an illusion. But I've gotten tiny glimmers of hope. Are any of you working on the inflammatory cause of POIS? Interesting acticle published in 2005 on Gallic Acid:
http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/1/123
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3936 on: 23/03/2009 17:55:50 »

Hi B_Jim,

If I took an "adrenal fatigue" approach to my POIS, instead of testosterone deficiency, do you think my treatment might be very different?

No your approach is good. I don't oppose the different hormones strategy we have suggested. All hormones are linked each other. Testosterone is probably safer and easy to use than DHEA and hydrocortisone/pregnenolone.
As CP wrote, testosterone release by adrenals too and all is down-regulated.


Thanks, B_Jim. Yes I noticed that DHEA is not the safest thing to take.
 

Offline nTonic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3937 on: 23/03/2009 20:43:30 »
Hi everyone,

It's really nice to find this forum. Having gone through some of the posts here, I realise that I'm not alone in suffering from POIS and attempting to find a solution to this problem.

I'm in my late 20s and have been suffering from POIS since I was a teenager. While my symptoms aren't as severe as other members here, it still affects my life quite a bit.

After my "release" (day zero) I don't feel anything abnormal immediately, but for the whole day after (day 1) sleep I will have headache, sore eyes, lowerback pain, general fatigue, a lack of concentration, a mild depression and a mild diarrhea. Fortunately, after that day (day 2) it goes back to normal again, until the next ejaculation.

Like a lot of the members here, I have tried many different things, like energy pills, loads of tea (as I'm not a fan of coffee), and herbs. But what has so far been effective is exercise. If I get myself to sweat on day 1, then the symptoms is lessened. I tried getting myself to sweat during sleep (by sleeping with more duvets) and it has a mild effect too. But it still bugs me as I don't sweat too easily and only vigorous sports allows me to do so.

What I also find is that my sleep after day zero is of very bad quality. Even if I've slept for 12 hours I still feel as if I have not slept for 3 days. Also, as a person who usually sleep without moving much, I often find myself waking up with my duvets all over the places on day 1 morning. I am suspecting that, in my case, something that happens in my body during the post-orgasm sleep has gone wrong, so I might try melatonin and see whether it works.

It's great to know that I'm not alone. Like many members here, I've consulted different GPs and they had no clues what is going on. So hopefully, together, we can find a way out of this POIS. :)
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3938 on: 24/03/2009 00:30:04 »
Since histamine triggers orgasm, perhaps some of us suffer from the unanticipated/excessive effects that histamine has on other proinflammatory neurochemicals (proteins) such as cytokines and prostaglandins. These may act like neurotransmitters throughout the central nervous system causing proinflammatory reactions in different places with different symptoms. These responses may circulate all through the HPA axis and into the spinal cord. I know that quite a few sufferers have low back pain. Some of us have burning in perineum area. Most are exhausted as if they have had a massive allergy attack. I don't recall the number of sufferers who may have itching or skin irritation. This would be VERY interesting if some of you have this???? I certainly know that many sufferers have stuffed sinuses.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3939 on: 24/03/2009 01:40:05 »
nTonic, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



Thanks for sharing your experiences. I and others here have also experienced your symptoms, including excessive yet nonrefreshing sleep. We look forward to more of your posts.

The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 24/03/2009 01:51:21 by demografx »
 

Offline nTonic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3940 on: 24/03/2009 14:15:07 »
Thanks so much for the info demografx. It is very surprising for me because I have never thought of the proposition that POIS has to do with hormone. I always thought it had to do with my spine (since I always have a sore lowerback on day 1) and/or inflammation (due to my sore eyes).

Has anyone here tried anti-inflammtory drugs and do they have any effect? And can I also ask how one should approach the GP so that they could actually let him/her try medication that might help?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3941 on: 24/03/2009 17:55:44 »

Thanks so much for the info demografx. It is very surprising for me because I have never thought of the proposition that POIS has to do with hormone. I always thought it had to do with my spine (since I always have a sore lowerback on day 1) and/or inflammation (due to my sore eyes).


Good questions! Lower back problems have been discussed. Take a look at some of our previous forum discussions about the lower back:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lower+back+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

When you see a result that you like, click on it, then use Ctrl + F plus a keyword(s) to zero in on your specific post.


Has anyone here tried anti-inflammtory drugs and do they have any effect?


We have had a number of discussions there, too:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=anti+inflammatory+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com


And can I also ask how one should approach the GP so that they could actually let him/her try medication that might help?


Our experience is that, unfortunately, we need to be a little aggressive with doctors or we will get little or no help! That's one reason the resources are spelled out in your welcome post above. I would suggest printing out Dr. Waldinger's paper, the New York Times article and bring it to your GP. Then talk about this forum and its seriousness on a scientific website.

The reason for all this is that, as B_Jim points out, we are in the infancy stages of the science of orgasm. It is a rare malady, misunderstood by 99.99% of the medical community.

We are here to help each other get beyond that and into an effective treatment mode as rapidly as possible.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2009 01:43:20 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3942 on: 24/03/2009 18:04:11 »

Welcome nTonic. I suggest to test C-reactive protein (CRP)in Pois. It seems to be  very easy and reliable for inflammation (Il-6). Out-of Pois I had about 4mg/L. ( <5mg/L = no inflammation  ).
  

B_Jim, do you think he should also test for the other hormones, prolactin, testosterone, cortisol, etc. ?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3943 on: 24/03/2009 18:08:32 »

I don't recall the number of sufferers who may have itching or skin irritation. This would be VERY interesting if some of you have this????


Underwater, I have always had "burning" fingertips in POIS, a most miserable sensation. I went to a dermatologist who confirmed that I also had dermatitis on my fingertips in-POIS. No creams, moisture, etc., Rx or OTC, would ever help.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2009 03:00:59 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3944 on: 25/03/2009 02:55:03 »
POIS DIARY

Trial #5, Day Zero. Very mild symptoms, expect none tomorrow. The reason first 2 Trials were 75% POIS cure, the next 2 Trials 90%+ POIS cure: repeat activity on the first 2 trials, averaging 4X in 4 days, which in the past would have created POIS-devastation on the scale of a personal nuclear holocaust.

The POIS treatment of testosterone + Levitra creates much more desire, so now activity needs to be constrained somewhat to keep the 90%+ level. It's an adjustment and a challenge.

But it's a great new life after 30+ years of POIS agony. Thanks, forum.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2009 05:30:29 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3945 on: 25/03/2009 04:10:58 »
Had a significant NE last night since I hadn't had an "O" in 3 months---
Immediately took an antihistamine (Claritin)---
I observed that my initial usual  POIS symptoms of sweating, tingles, hot/cold sensations did not take place. All H1 receptor sites on skin were taken out of the POIS symptomatology for ME. I also noticed no stuffed sinus or dry mouth. All this makes sense for combating allergies, but it clearly works for my initial POIS symptoms too. I made the mistake about 15 hours later of taking another Claritin.
This was a mistake. Side effects have scrambled things and have made clear analysis impossible. Right at the moment, I can't separate POIS from Claritin side effects.
Now it's about 19 hours post NE. I have learned a lot about what causes my initial symptoms. I'm not sure I can clearly observe further due to excess Claritin. I took the extra Claritin because I was not sure how long the histamine released from mast cells at orgasm remains in the blood. I should have waited and observed instead of trying to overdo it. At least I may have some valuable information for the onset of my type of POIS and how to prevent some early symptoms. This has been risky for me because I don't want to stir things up with my anxiety condition. I've also experimented with Claritin to see how it affects GAD. I also suspect other mast cell mediators besides histamine playing a part in POIS. The one symptom that was not shut down was perineum burning. I will watch to see how long until it subsides. I will keep an eye on fatigue and cognitive issues. But I think all my good information may be just for the first 15 hours. I do not think Claritin is the answer, but at least it may offer some insight into the possibility of an inflammatory response theory. I never got the initial jolt or panic that I always get. I hope I don't get it later on. If I do, this experiment will be a failure by simply delaying the inevitable.

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3946 on: 25/03/2009 05:18:55 »
Underwater, it does sound meaningful, the 15 hours, in spite of the "setbacks".

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the initial sudden jolt will not re-emerge.

Please keep us informed.

Best wishes.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2009 05:25:11 by demografx »
 

Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3947 on: 25/03/2009 14:37:20 »
Just got out of bed. This is second night, but first full night's sleep. This is report on hours 20-29 post "O". Slept like a baby. This would usually be a bad night.
Zero POIS symptoms! I can easily distinguish Claritin symptoms from POIS: There is no POIS. The Claritin symptoms are slight increase in heart rate and a mild anxiety. There was no impact on my sleep. I don't know if second Claritin was necessary. The issue is: How long do mast cell mediators operate after arousal and orgasm? How long do they have to be inhibited from binding to their sites? This experiment is about Histamine. Claritin prevents binding to H1 receptors. This means avoiding symptoms that are connected to places like skin and sinuses for example. Since I slept well, at the moment I feel well rested. I won't know about my back and perineum for awhile.
I pray and hope that the inflammatory response  has been interfered with. Cognitively, I feel my usual self as I type this. Maybe for me, I just can't handle all the histamines released to trigger ejaculation? I asked the pharmacist yesterday about other mediators like prostaglandin and leukotreine (I'm not sure about spelling), but she didn't know. She said the blockers for them are usually by prescription. But this experiment is not about medication/Claritin. It is about learning what might be POIS triggers just before or at orgasm. I think it is true that POIS is a question of hormones and neurotransmitters. Histamine, as far as I know, is classified as a neurotransmitter. In my case, with my GAD and allergies, it is hard to separate symptoms out. But I know that allergens cause allergies. Histamine is a culprit. I think that my early POIS symptoms and quite possibly some of my GAD symptoms are Histamine reactions. In fact, maybe all of my "somatic" POIS symptoms are Histamine related???
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3948 on: 25/03/2009 15:57:44 »

Just got out of bed. This is second night, but first full night's sleep. This is report on hours 20-29 post "O". Slept like a baby. This would usually be a bad night.

Zero POIS symptoms!


Underwater, congratulations! Major step.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3949 on: 25/03/2009 16:01:18 »
POIS DIARY

DAY ONE, to use Underwater's expressions above: slept like a baby. Zero POIS symptoms.

Too much Levitra = hangover + too much post-arousal. I cut back from 20mg to 10mg. Will go to 5mg next time.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3949 on: 25/03/2009 16:01:18 »

 

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