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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6448175 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4100 on: 14/04/2009 19:11:03 »
POIS DIARY

Day Zero, 2x, 6 hours apart. Unbelievable frequency last 2 weeks. Slight tiredness, slight drying of the fingertips. If it continues to improve I will still call it 90%.
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4101 on: 14/04/2009 20:42:12 »
We have had mixed results with TCM. They did not work at all for me. Testosterone works for me amazingly well, but yes we're all different.

I have also tried TCM. My experience:

TCM 1. The doctor diagnosed me out-of-pois as having kidney yang deficiency. When I asked to test before and right after orgasm, he said there was no need to. He could already tell what was happening. The tonic was indeed helping me out-of-pois.
In-POIS, however this happened: I felt strange, but energized and happy the first days, and then suddenly after a week, I was very, very tired, was very slow in thinking,  and got thirsty (typical POIS symptom for me). It was like many symptoms were delayed for a week. My TCM-practitioner didn’t know what to do with this. I then took some kidney yin tonics, they helped but only for some symptoms (mainly the annoying thirst).  After 1 ½ years I gave up. However, his medication has left me with side effects that still occur to date; way too many nocturnal emissions, I am still trying to solve this (laying on the side doesn’t help; only thing that helps is not sleeping).

TCM 2: Then another TCM doctor, also out-of-pois, diagnosed me with Kidney Qi and Yin deficiency. I had his pills for 4 weeks, but after release I still felt very bad. When I saw him after release, he accused me that I was very stressfull and that I should relax more. Fired!
 
TCM 3: Before this, I did acupuncture for 4 months with a Chinese doctor. Also, I had more energy out-of –pois. Didn’t do much for POIS however. When I saw him 2 days after release, it was very painful when he put in the needles. I screamed very loudly and he accused me scaring away new customers. Also, he said I had had too much stress in the previous days. Fired!

My conclusion:
 I hope this helps the forum readers to make a decision.

Pro’s of TCM:

-   I think Chewbacca has reported a good experience with TCM; though he stated it 
     could be  psychological. Might be more positive cases I have overlooked.
-   There is always the chance it might work for you.
-   I had good effects with TCM treatment out-of-pois and to some symptoms in-pois.
-   Based on the effects you get and looking extensively on the internet for the tonics and the effect they have   
     you might get a clue what is happening in your body.
-   TCM is using herbs, and we’ve seen good experiences with medications that contain herbs, like in Forum’s 
     first choice for (supposedly, not proven) lowering cortisol  (to some, definitely not universal cure): Relora.

Contra TCM:
-   did not heal my POIS after treating me for almost 2 years and seeing 3 different doctors. No cure as well for 
     Demo, Girlwind, Michael8028 as reported on this forum.
-    I still have side effects Nocturnal Emission.
-   very hard to understand TCM language. It uses exotic terms like kidney yin, false heart fire, meridians. Nice   
     to hear on a holiday but not when you’re desperate to get relief.  Also, kidney TCM is not western kidney.
-   TCM doctors could not explain in western terms what was happening in my body, so actually leaving me totally   
     dependent on them.
-   Their pay is based in the amount of customers they have, they’re not on the pay-roll of a hospital.
-   The TCM doctors never saw me in-pois and also never asked to see me just after release, though this is the same   
     with western doctors, and might not be necessary for all cases.
« Last Edit: 14/04/2009 20:49:36 by rock27 »
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4102 on: 14/04/2009 20:44:42 »
Mister_z, welcome back. Low testosterone = low libido is certainly my experience. And with successful T-treatment, the libido seemed to go ballistic :)
im probably insane then...
im getting quite discouraged tbh; i have tried just about everything i could try... i have an appointment with an endocrinologist soon but i have a feeling it is a waste of time. as usual the doctor is probably gonna go something like "oh i guess its just this; or that, in all case its probably all in your head; no need to do further testing, goodbye"



Mister Z,

Blank Stares.  Many of us have experienced these "blank stares". Those doctors even try to make you think you're mental.
I also didn't know what to do 15 years ago, as a youngster. There was no internet and it's such a private matter I talked to no-one about it. The only books in the library I could find said there was nothing wrong with masturbation and there was no harm that could be done.  Finally making it to see a doctor was also a huge step for me. After easy dismissals by doctors I was just hoping to grow over it. Didn't happen, condition only worsened.

How to get tests. Push your doctors for tests. If they don't give it, buy you own. Try to find a respected place to get your tests. If this doesn't work out, I know that many alternative doctors (preventive medicine) have access to the labs your own doctor uses as well. Tell your own doctor you're considering alternative medicine, and ask which alternative doctors have access to the same labs he uses. Use them to get the tests and get back to your regular doctor/endocrinologist. Obviously you'll probably have to pay yourself. There are also tests on the internet, but I don't know how reliable they are and if your doctor will accept those. At least having some data is better than none. However respected lab is strongly advised.

Timing of tests. Also, timing is important. Demo tested out-of-pois. Treating his then discovered low-testosterone has brought him 90% down in symptoms.
I however tested 3 days in pois, had low Testosterone. However, I then tested right after ejaculation and had sky high Testosterone (saliva test; to be confirmed in blood test). Bottom line, it is possible that right after orgasm very strange hormone fluctuations occur. Anyway, this is something you probably feel yourself (or not).  Read about hormone symptoms.

Therefore, I would highly recommend 3 tests. 1 Just before orgasm (feeling allright), and 1 after orgasm. And 1 test feeling worst (let’s say morning first or second day). You will then know exactly what is happening in your body. It may turn out  you could have done with 1 test, but in my opinion you want to exclude the risk of being treated with an incomplete (and therefore possibly wrong) diagnosis.  Your body is worth it. We put in so many effort when working in the office, and then we would not put in the same effort into our own health or let other people laugh at our very serious problems, making us ridiculous? But then again, you probabably feel for yourself when it's necessary to test. It's your body.

What to test for? I would test for all reproductive, adrenal and thyroid hormones. I tested: cortisol, total testosterone, free testosterone, DHEA-S, estradiol, tsh, t3 total, free t3, free t4, aldosterone, prolactine, progesterone,  FSH, hCG and LH.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: 14/04/2009 20:53:58 by rock27 »
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4103 on: 14/04/2009 20:51:39 »
POIS DIARY

Day Zero, 2x, 6 hours apart. Unbelievable frequency last 2 weeks. Slight tiredness, slight drying of the fingertips. If it continues to improve I will still call it 90%.

Demo,

great great recovery. However, each time you mention symptions, you're making me very eager to see your blood values just after release. Anyway, there's always the option of doing that in the future! Good luck!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4104 on: 15/04/2009 00:40:53 »
Thanks, Rocky. Terrific writeups above!
« Last Edit: 15/04/2009 04:08:21 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4105 on: 15/04/2009 00:52:06 »
I deleted Foster's post. It was blatant advertising. If he wishes to re-post in the spirit of sharing experiences and theories (as opposed to promoting his practice that presumes to know all about POIS) he is welcome to do so.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4106 on: 15/04/2009 04:28:41 »
If I don't limit activity (still learning what these new limits are), Day Zero can be a little tiring. But interestingly, no cognitive problems.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4107 on: 15/04/2009 07:57:11 »
I think certain chemicals may only be worth testing once. e.g. I think stuff like TSH stays relatively constant over days (I am not positive about that though).  DHEA-S is also more stable to immediate variations than DHEA; for example, DHEA has diurnal fluctuations, whereas DHEA-S does not.  This might make DHEA (not DHEA-S) more appropriate for POIS testing.  DHEA testing is, however, more difficult to obtain.

But overall the 3 tests seems like a good idea.
« Last Edit: 15/04/2009 08:22:05 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4108 on: 15/04/2009 08:08:30 »
A note about cyclical Cushings:

It is often caused by a pituitary adenoma, but can be from an ectopic tumor or an abnormality with the adrenal glands.  It can also be caused by an empty sella.  It is very hard to diagnose.  It is "cyclical" in the sense that cortisol test results will be normal for a period of time, and then go abnormal, and eventually go back to normal.  These cycles can vary in duration from months to years.  Also, people with cyclical Cushings can be missing some or all of the regular physical signs of Cushings.

The neuroscientist MD PhD I mentioned thinks my pituitary adenoma is causing this post-orgasm problem.  But before anything is done, this will need to be verified with more tests.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4109 on: 15/04/2009 21:00:33 »
Counterpoints, best wishes for a speedy-as-possible resolution. It is terrific that you have the counsel of someone so distinguished.
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4110 on: 16/04/2009 02:51:48 »
Hey everyone.

I will keep this as simple and short as possible.

Basically, to start off, i may have found my own form of a POIS cure.

Having researched the wonderful effects of 5-HTP, i decided to experiment with it. I took two capsules a day, one before orgasm. Interestingly, this seems to have made a difference. I feel more relaxed, free of depression, confident, free of negativity and cognitive hell (all symptoms of POIS) even after an orgasm, which has absolutely stunned me.

Furthermore, i recall reading that one of the forum members had had success with consuming salt after an orgasm in order to re-balance his electrolytes. I read that a low sodium (salt) level can cause most of the symptoms i experience. Thus, i attempted further experimentation. Just after an orgasm, i would take a half-teaspoon of salt (i have tried this with ordinary table salt and sea salt). Indeed, a further difference has been noticed. My brain is no longer foggy and unstable as it ususally was following orgasm.

Thus, it seems, 5-HTP, 1/2 teaspoon of salt after orgasm, and glutamine (for GABA) has made a considerable difference to my POIS hell. It is safe to say that at least 80% of symptoms have disappeared.

A basic theory of mine was that orgasm causes a depletion of inhibitory neurotransmitters in my brain (serotonin and GABA), which simply have to be replenished properly after orgasm. A lack of these inhibitory chemicals can bring on a host of varying symptoms, including depression, foggy thinking, low attention span, poor concentration and memory, negative thoughts, inability to feel happiness.

And the salt theory is simply a matter of fully replenishing my sodium levels after orgasm (i assume that sodium is lost during ejaculation). Indeed it occurred to me recently that my salt intake had been reduced dramatically, based on my previous beliefs about the necessity of salt. I now know, however, that a plentiful supply of salt (6g max.) in the diet is beneficial for body and brain.

Thus, these are my treatments and theories.

Obviously, to eliminate the placebo effect, i will continue this experimentation for at least another two weeks.

Does anyone have any ideas about this theory? Am i making any sense?

Thanks

Ambient
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4111 on: 16/04/2009 03:52:09 »
Does anyone have any ideas about this theory? Am i making any sense?

Thanks

Ambient

I would get your sodium levels tested, through blood or urine.  Mine are high-normal.  I don't think taking salt is a good idea unless you verify that you probably need it, and that it definitely is helping.

To test for placebo, you could try and do a "blind" test.  This wouldn't work with salt (perhaps unless you use coated tablets).  But for some things it might.  Get someone you trust to assign a label to the active substance, and a different label to the inactive substance.  Try taking one of each label for a couple weeks.  Write down your observations.  And then ask your friend (or whoever) what each of the substances was. Of course this scheme might need to be more elaborate, but this is the idea.

Good luck Ambient, and thanks for the news.

Thanks Demografx for the encouragement.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2009 03:57:34 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4112 on: 16/04/2009 03:53:17 »
I am very confused by my possible POIS issue, I will slowly work through all the advice that is being given as of late.... it seems a lot of us in the group have anxiety issues? Is this a proper statement? I have suffered with GAD for at least 10 years now.... the POIS started maybe 2 years ago.... I am 44 now.

The only other thing that I always wonder what it might end of doing to me is that my mother took DES prior to my birth in 1965... it has been linked to all sort of things in the female off spring, but not much in the male.... just throwing it out there!

So far one week of RELORA and I do not see much difference..... need to find a good DR to help me work through all this..... is it suggested that you seek out an ENDOCRINOLOGIST?

Thanks!
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4113 on: 16/04/2009 18:45:24 »
And the salt theory is simply a matter of fully replenishing my sodium levels after orgasm (i assume that sodium is lost during ejaculation).

Ambient,

The hormone aldosterone is influencing the amount of sodium in your blood. When aldosterone is low, sodium is going out of your body thru your urine. When enough is lost, it makes you feel bad. Aldosterone is produced in your adrenals. So maybe in pois your adrenals are somehow not producing enough aldosterone (my not proven working theory). So I would suggest testing for aldosterone (and sodium of course). I am still awaiting my blood test results. Alternatively, taste your urine :) and taste if salt is lost.

One of the symptoms of low sodium is dehydration. I have experienced dehydration in pois for a long time, too. To me that goes along with thirst and dry skin. For others on this forum I have seen reports of dry mouth.

Congratulations on your progress!! Your case is similar to mine, as I also have the 'feeling of rush and stress after orgasm' and 'worst symptoms kicking in on day 2'. I also tried saltwater the last days after release; feel that my body needs it; yet too early for conclusions.


« Last Edit: 16/04/2009 21:41:51 by rock27 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4114 on: 16/04/2009 22:49:40 »
POIS-SUFFERER, yes, an endocrinologist is generally the best starting point for us to investigate our POIS.
 

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4115 on: 17/04/2009 05:47:58 »
Hi everyone-

I suspect I'm a pois sufferer- For the 2-3 weeks after ejaculation my mental and emotional energy and drives are way down the drain. I'll bet my adrenals being toast has something to do with it.

But, here is something interesting: I've learned the art of the male internal/multiple orgasm, where you orgasm without expelling any fluid. And when I do THAT, there is no hangover. It's also a pretty sweet feeling, I must say. But as soon as I lose my "precious bodily fluids," it's all downhill from there.

I wonder what that means...
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4116 on: 17/04/2009 06:00:53 »
RhythmSpring, what's preventing you from solving the POIS puzzle by simply continuing to practice the art of retention and avoiding release altogether?
« Last Edit: 17/04/2009 07:16:36 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4117 on: 17/04/2009 06:25:38 »
Ambient, congratulations on the 80% relief! I hope it continues.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4118 on: 17/04/2009 06:37:34 »
RhythmSpring, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 17/04/2009 06:49:54 by demografx »
 

Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4119 on: 17/04/2009 16:12:24 »
RhythmSpring, how do you know your adrenals are not working? DR? or a guess?

Thanks.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4120 on: 17/04/2009 19:38:35 »
Underwater, in one of your recent posts you wrote that the nervous system probably will need some time to acclimate to a new POIS-free body/mind. I'm finding that to be true, so thank you.
 

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4121 on: 18/04/2009 00:18:25 »
pois sufferer- My chiropractor, who is also a reflexologist tests my adrenals from time to time, did so the other day and noted they were very weak. I just started taking B vitamins, and extra b-5 for support.

demografx- what's preventing me? Well, I'm already dealing with rheumatoid arthritis, which is a lot of work and time, especially as a 19 year old attending college... I feel a little overwhelmed, especially when trying to have a social life with all this stress.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4122 on: 18/04/2009 18:29:00 »
RhythmSpring, what's preventing you from solving the POIS puzzle by simply continuing to practice the art of retention and avoiding release altogether?

If "retention" worked for me, I still wouldn't be able to do this.  It only increases cravings, or it doesn't affect them.  So eventually something would have to give.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4123 on: 18/04/2009 22:09:09 »
Counterpoints, the Taoist-method of "retention" means climax but without expelling any fluid.
« Last Edit: 19/04/2009 01:28:56 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4124 on: 18/04/2009 22:18:38 »

I've learned the art of the male internal/multiple orgasm, where you orgasm without expelling any fluid. And when I do THAT, there is no hangover.



RhythmSpring, what's preventing you from solving the POIS puzzle by simply continuing to practice the art of retention and avoiding release altogether?



demografx- what's preventing me? Well, I'm already dealing with rheumatoid arthritis, which is a lot of work and time, especially as a 19 year old attending college... I feel a little overwhelmed, especially when trying to have a social life with all this stress.


I don't understand. I thought we were discussing what you learned, "the art of the male internal/multiple orgasm". I asked why not use that to solve POIS, since you then "have no hangover"?
« Last Edit: 18/04/2009 22:21:22 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4124 on: 18/04/2009 22:18:38 »

 

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