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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6456162 times)

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5075 on: 27/07/2009 18:38:09 »
Well I can pretty much orgasm frequently now without any bad mental effects.  The only thing that's still bothering me is the brain fog, but it doesn't seem to get worse after each O.  It seems like its slowly draining away.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5076 on: 27/07/2009 18:41:21 »
I was reading about endorphins on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin). 

Look at this:
"Endorphins are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in vertebrates during strenuous exercise,[1] excitement, pain and orgasm,[2][3] and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Endorphins work as "natural pain relievers", whose effects may be enhanced by other medications."

An endorphin issue has long been suspected as a possible cause of POIS....  and we see the pituitary gland, orgasm, and endorphins are all connected.  This makes me wonder more about the pituitary adenomas...  (Just for reference: As far as I know, the best way to identify a pituitary adenoma is through a GAD contrast enhanced PITUITARY MRI (e.g. an MRI dedicated to the pituitary, not just a routine brain). ).



I did exactly that, an MRI focused on the pituitary, with AND without contrast. A partially empty sella was found, which  did not concern my endocrinologist.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5077 on: 27/07/2009 19:29:17 »

I just want to post something I think about and am thankful for that goes against the grain of this thread but should be acknowldged.  POIS has given something to me that's made me absolutely a better person and that is dicipline.  Straight faced, no blinking, up most honesty - dealing with POIS has straigthened my self control and character.

I think it should be said for myself.


Limejuice, thank you!

I think those are much-needed words of wisdom!

This is proably the first post ever on the positive-aspect of POIS!

I have thought about positive aspects as well. One that often comes to mind for me about living with POIS:

"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."

That was from Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, 1888. German philosopher (1844 - 1900).

The quote above was also continually repeated in his mind as a survival tool/way of thinking by Viktor Frankl, author-psychiatrist, during his internment at Auschwitz concentration (death) camp.

Frankl survived Auschwitz and derived meaning from the experience.

We can all learn from his idea!
« Last Edit: 27/07/2009 19:35:17 by demografx »
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5078 on: 27/07/2009 22:32:35 »
I was reading about endorphins on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin). 

Look at this:
"Endorphins are endogenous opioid polypeptide compounds. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus in vertebrates during strenuous exercise,[1] excitement, pain and orgasm,[2][3] and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. Endorphins work as "natural pain relievers", whose effects may be enhanced by other medications."

An endorphin issue has long been suspected as a possible cause of POIS....  and we see the pituitary gland, orgasm, and endorphins are all connected.  This makes me wonder more about the pituitary adenomas...  (Just for reference: As far as I know, the best way to identify a pituitary adenoma is through a GAD contrast enhanced PITUITARY MRI (e.g. an MRI dedicated to the pituitary, not just a routine brain). ).



Funny you should mention that.... my neurologist thought it might have something to do with the pituitary gland as well, and as such I did manage to get a brain MRI specifically looking at the pituitary fossa...  (got 224mb of free space? lol) The results were:

>>>Findings: Two punctuate signal abnormalities are present in the periventricular white matter without mass effect or edema. The ventricles and cisternal spaces are normal in size and configuration. There is no evidence of shift of the midline indicators. Signal of the brain stem and cerebellum are normal.

The diffusion-weighted imaging demonstrates no evidence of acute restricted diffusion.

Imaging of the pituitary fossa is unremarkable with normal signal identified. The infundibulum is midline status-post contrast. There is no evidence of abnormal enhancement within the parenchyma of the brain. There is no evidence of abnormal enhancement withint the pituitary fossa.

Impression: No significant abnormalities are identified by MRI criteria related to the parenchyma of the brain or within the detailed imaging of the pituitary fossa.<<<

In other words, the doc didn't find anything.

And my POIS is about 1 orgasm = 5 days of significant cognitive and recall loss and severly impaired processing. It's bad enough that during the symptoms I'll rationalize things that dont make any sense, as well, even if I know all the facts and am familiar with the subject matter. Consequently, abstinence is my only way of life. Unfortunately, all the ex-girlfriends and the ex-wife have fallen by the wayside since, well, women like to get BUSY with their loved ones. And, I like keeping my job, so once again abstinence is the only choice. Yes, medical society, it is, and always has been, that bad. But hey, keep working on Erectile Dysfunction drugs, cause that's where the money's at!

Somedays I think I might as well join a monastery take a vow of chastity.
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5079 on: 27/07/2009 22:38:50 »
I just want to post something I think about and am thankful for that goes against the grain of this thread but should be acknowldged.  POIS has given something to me that's made me absolutely a better person and that is dicipline.  Straight faced, no blinking, up most honesty - dealing with POIS has straigthened my self control and character.

 I think it should be said for myself.

Not me. It has driven me absolutely mad before and led to a lot of self destructive behavior earlier on in my life, mostly out of frustration with its existence and girlfriend's DISBELIEF in its existence. It took 15 years before my sanity was once again in control, and I only managed that through absolute abstinence.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5080 on: 27/07/2009 22:45:24 »

Limejuice, would you mind just elaborating a teensy bit more on discipline and POIS? For example, in spite of POIS, did you work through the day rather than call in sick?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5081 on: 28/07/2009 00:17:24 »

Counterpoints, would this Scientific American article be useful as a reference in wikipedia? Posted here in case others are interested: The Orgasmic Mind: The Neurological Roots of Sexual Pleasure
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-orgasmic-mind
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5082 on: 28/07/2009 00:23:21 »
I just want to post something I think about and am thankful for that goes against the grain of this thread but should be acknowldged.  POIS has given something to me that's made me absolutely a better person and that is dicipline.  Straight faced, no blinking, up most honesty - dealing with POIS has straigthened my self control and character.

 I think it should be said for myself.

Not me. It has driven me absolutely mad before and led to a lot of self destructive behavior earlier on in my life, mostly out of frustration with its existence and girlfriend's DISBELIEF in its existence. It took 15 years before my sanity was once again in control, and I only managed that through absolute abstinence.

Defsync, it's an absolute killer. I don't know how I made it thru 30+ years!!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5083 on: 28/07/2009 00:37:53 »

okay so one thing i've been poking around is histamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine_H3_receptor

"The H3 receptor has also been shown to presynaptically inhibit the release of a number of other neurotransmitters (i.e. it acts as an inhibitory heteroreceptor) including, but probably not limited to dopamine, GABA, acetylcholine, noradrenaline, and serotonin."

now about histamine itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine

"Research has shown that histamine is released as part of the human orgasm from mast cells in the genitals."

Now some of the symptoms of having too much histamine in the blood reminds me of POIS symptoms.

Histadelia: This is a disorder, prominent in males, of too
much histamine in the blood.

Symptoms include hyperactivity, compulsions, obsessions, inner
tensions, blank mind episodes, phobias, chronic depression,
and strong suicidal tendencies.

Physical signs can include little tolerance for pain, rapid
metabolism, lean build, profuse sweating, seasonal allergies,
and frequent colds.

So, for POIS symptoms that last a few days, I'm thinking that maybe we have a problem with N-methyltransferase, the chemical that breaks down Histamine.... so after orgasm, Histamine gets in our blood, sits there for too long, and the symptoms develop... after a few days EVENTUALLY the excess Histamine is removed from the blood stream and the symptoms disappear.

Just another random theory i have....



Defsync, you wrote, “after orgasm, Histamine gets in our blood, sits there for too long, and the symptoms develop when I feel POIS strongly…after a few days EVENTUALLY the excess Histamine is removed from the blood stream and the symptoms disappear.”

Very interesting. When I’m in-POIS, the feeling I’ve had very often is as if I were somehow injected with some POISonous (no pun intended)  substance. And I can feel the poison coursing through my veins.  Imagination? Who knows…

At the onset of POIS, my nose gets stuffed, so I take Afrin, which is a decongestant and not an antihistamine, so I’m not sure whether or not that supports the Histamine theory.

Not Histamine-related, but POIS-related: My “dried up” fingertips continue to drive me berserk, even with my treatment and dramatic improvement.  Day Zero is still not much fun.
« Last Edit: 28/07/2009 00:58:44 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5084 on: 28/07/2009 02:24:08 »

Counterpoints, would this Scientific American article be useful as a reference in wikipedia? Posted here in case others are interested: The Orgasmic Mind: The Neurological Roots of Sexual Pleasure
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-orgasmic-mind

Sure, add it if you like, as an external reference.  I am not sure how it fits specifically with POIS though.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5085 on: 28/07/2009 02:25:02 »
man am i glad to see you guys still going strong... too bad the wiki page got cut down to size, since it's said you cant use a forum as a source of reference =( but at least the page is still up

okay so one thing i've been poking around is histamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine_H3_receptor

"The H3 receptor has also been shown to presynaptically inhibit the release of a number of other neurotransmitters (i.e. it acts as an inhibitory heteroreceptor) including, but probably not limited to dopamine, GABA, acetylcholine, noradrenaline, and serotonin."

now about histamine itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine

"Research has shown that histamine is released as part of the human orgasm from mast cells in the genitals."

Now some of the symptoms of having too much histamine in the blood reminds me of POIS symptoms.

Histadelia: This is a disorder, prominent in males, of too
much histamine in the blood.

Symptoms include hyperactivity, compulsions, obsessions, inner
tensions, blank mind episodes, phobias, chronic depression,
and strong suicidal tendencies.

Physical signs can include little tolerance for pain, rapid
metabolism, lean build, profuse sweating, seasonal allergies,
and frequent colds.

So, for POIS symptoms that last a few days, I'm thinking that maybe we have a problem with N-methyltransferase, the chemical that breaks down Histamine.... so after orgasm, Histamine gets in our blood, sits there for too long, and the symptoms develop... after a few days EVENTUALLY the excess Histamine is removed from the blood stream and the symptoms disappear.

Just another random theory i have....

You could try taking an antihistamine?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5086 on: 28/07/2009 03:23:08 »

Counterpoints, would this Scientific American article be useful as a reference in wikipedia? Posted here in case others are interested: The Orgasmic Mind: The Neurological Roots of Sexual Pleasure
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-orgasmic-mind

Sure, add it if you like, as an external reference.  I am not sure how it fits specifically with POIS though.


Right, that's why I wanted you to see it. I don't want to lessen credibility. The main plus is the idea of showing scientific acceptance of studying ORGASM, the science which is in it's infancy. I'll put it there, but feel free to remove it if you feel it's not a strong enough connection to POIS.

I also have a question about POIS defined as "hours or days". It says elsewhere in wikipedia "needs days of rest". I wonder if only "days" would be more accurate than "hours/days". Marnia and the New York Times article talk about "hours" as a fairly widespread, universal, mild orgasmic aftereffect, unrelated to the dark severity of POIS, which lasts "forever", i.e., days or even weeks.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5087 on: 28/07/2009 04:10:05 »
TECH PROBLEMS

Is anyone else having problems with writing long posts or Private Messages?

When the writing gets to a certain length, the preview box that we write in "snaps back" on me and I can't see what I'm typing. So the only way around this is to copy and paste into Word, then copy and paste back to the POIS thread.

I've been complaining about this to Naked Science Forum people.

If you have the same problem with long posts/PM's, please PM me about it, or post about it here.

THANKS!
« Last Edit: 28/07/2009 04:51:40 by demografx »
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5088 on: 28/07/2009 04:14:26 »

Counterpoints, would this Scientific American article be useful as a reference in wikipedia? Posted here in case others are interested: The Orgasmic Mind: The Neurological Roots of Sexual Pleasure
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-orgasmic-mind

Sure, add it if you like, as an external reference.  I am not sure how it fits specifically with POIS though.


Right, that's why I wanted you to see it. I don't want to lessen credibility. The main plus is the idea of showing scientific acceptance of studying ORGASM, the science which is in it's infancy. I'll put it there, but feel free to remove it if you feel it's not a strong enough connection to POIS.

I also have a question about POIS defined as "hours or days". It says elsewhere in wikipedia "needs days of rest". I wonder if only "days" would be more accurate than "hours/days". Marnia and the New York Times article talk about "hours" as a fairly widespread, universal, mild orgasmic aftereffect, unrelated to the dark severity of POIS, which lasts "forever", i.e., days or even weeks.

The range seems to be from hours to days, although days is more common here.... at some point the article will need a major renovation, although we'll have to be careful about how to approach it.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5089 on: 28/07/2009 04:31:34 »
John, so the improvement is caused by cranberries or maybe a synergic effect of both. :)

Cranberry has proved effects :
- antibacterial (urinary system)
- anti-inflammatory
- anti-oxydant

Wiki :" One evaluates effects of cranberry polyphenols on cytochrome P450 enzymes involved in metabolism."

Very very very interesting! Remember I have told about  cytochrome P450 when we have a look on pancreas role on steroids synthesis (cholesterol to pregnenolone).

Cytochome P450 c17 (with cytochrome p450 cc ) can convert cholesterol to pregnenolone, a steroid hormone in mitochondries.

Cranberries juice may help to increase HDL cholesterol (10?).

The problem for me is to find cranberries :/
 :( Only supplements, dehydrated fruit or juice. Very expansive ...
Thanks about HDL.
All this will increase motivation!
In case it doesn't help for POIS it will at least decrease my cardiovascular risk which is raised by low HDL.
It's good not to drink 2 liters a day because of the oxalic acid. (Bitter taste too!)
« Last Edit: 28/07/2009 04:51:54 by martin88 »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5090 on: 28/07/2009 05:02:14 »

Sure, add it if you like, as an external reference.  I am not sure how it fits specifically with POIS though.


My previous small edits of wikipedia (nowhere near your masterful work) were straightforward enough, but just now, adding a simple reference? Stumped!
« Last Edit: 28/07/2009 05:05:18 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5091 on: 28/07/2009 05:10:43 »

The range seems to be from hours to days, although days is more common here.... at some point the article will need a major renovation, although we'll have to be careful about how to approach it.


Then maybe it would be easier and also appear more consistent (for now) if we change "needs days of rest" to "needs hours or days of rest"?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5092 on: 28/07/2009 17:45:05 »

WHO UPDATE

Pronobis, thank you! It's wonderful that you got a contact name who we can now hold accountable in this bureaucracy! As you indicated, I will send the follow up email today.

Thanks again for calling their Switzerland headquarters, and for your persistent follow-up.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5093 on: 28/07/2009 18:38:54 »

The range seems to be from hours to days, although days is more common here.... at some point the article will need a major renovation, although we'll have to be careful about how to approach it.


Then maybe it would be easier and also appear more consistent (for now) if we change "needs days of rest" to "needs hours or days of rest"?

Sure, good idea.
 

Offline nsf

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5094 on: 28/07/2009 18:54:44 »
Friends.. I have been away for months now, certainly going through POIS symptoms in person. I might have missed few important findings from the forum. I would appreciate if anyone could summarize the highlight findings where we have a common consensus.

From my end, I am getting some understanding on what is happening to me post Orgasm. Typically, post Orgasm, after a brief relaxed mode, I sense I get into a physically tense state for days. This invariably happens even with me taking actions to stay relaxed. This is similar to, or same as Psychosomatic disorder (i.e., excess stress in the body). I had attempted Orgasm for continuous 5 days, during which the excess stress (Psychosomatic) had triggered an auto-immune problem. This has manifested in me, in the form of Psoriasis. I had attempted Orgasm during my Psoriasis attack. I have experienced the same Post Orgasm stress for few days, that does not impact Psoriasis attack differently (with 1 day orgasm). I did not have heart to try continuous days post Psoriasis - I would presume this might aggravate my condition.
 

Offline Pronobis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5095 on: 28/07/2009 19:28:26 »

WHO UPDATE

Pronobis, thank you! It's wonderful that you got a contact name who we can now hold accountable in this bureaucracy! As you indicated, I will send the follow up email today.

Thanks again for calling their Switzerland headquarters, and for your persistent follow-up.

Thank you too. I hope it will work
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5096 on: 28/07/2009 20:43:46 »

WHO UPDATE

Pronobis, thank you! It's wonderful that you got a contact name who we can now hold accountable in this bureaucracy! As you indicated, I will send the follow up email today.

Thanks again for calling their Switzerland headquarters, and for your persistent follow-up.


Thank you too. I hope it will work


It already has. The optimism here is increasing! :)


ps - let me know the Switzerland telephone charges by PM for reimbursement.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5097 on: 28/07/2009 22:04:43 »
nsf,
Quote
From my end, I am getting some understanding on what is happening to me post Orgasm. Typically, post Orgasm, after a brief relaxed mode, I sense I get into a physically tense state for days. This invariably happens even with me taking actions to stay relaxed. This is similar to, or same as Psychosomatic disorder (i.e., excess stress in the body). I had attempted Orgasm for continuous 5 days, during which the excess stress (Psychosomatic) had triggered an auto-immune problem. This has manifested in me, in the form of Psoriasis. I had attempted Orgasm during my Psoriasis attack. I have experienced the same Post Orgasm stress for few days, that does not impact Psoriasis attack differently (with 1 day orgasm). I did not have heart to try continuous days post Psoriasis - I would presume this might aggravate my condition.]

Why are you thinking that it is a psychosomatic disorder that caused an autoimmune problem?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5098 on: 28/07/2009 22:11:19 »
OFF TOPIC : Humor

(We can't always be so dead serious around here! ;D )

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

My Urologist.....

As men age, we start seeing more of the medical world, which
nowadays seems  to include an  increasing number of women as our
physicians and therapists.  And in  my case, a new urologist...

My family doctor recently referred me to a just out of
medical school female urologist. I saw her  yesterday, and she's
absolutely drop-dead gorgeous as well as unbelievably  sexy.

She told me that I must stop masturbating.


I asked her why.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

She said, "Because I'm trying to examine you..."
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5099 on: 28/07/2009 23:10:18 »
man am i glad to see you guys still going strong... too bad the wiki page got cut down to size, since it's said you cant use a forum as a source of reference =( but at least the page is still up

okay so one thing i've been poking around is histamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine_H3_receptor

"The H3 receptor has also been shown to presynaptically inhibit the release of a number of other neurotransmitters (i.e. it acts as an inhibitory heteroreceptor) including, but probably not limited to dopamine, GABA, acetylcholine, noradrenaline, and serotonin."

now about histamine itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine

"Research has shown that histamine is released as part of the human orgasm from mast cells in the genitals."

Now some of the symptoms of having too much histamine in the blood reminds me of POIS symptoms.

Histadelia: This is a disorder, prominent in males, of too
much histamine in the blood.

Symptoms include hyperactivity, compulsions, obsessions, inner
tensions, blank mind episodes, phobias, chronic depression,
and strong suicidal tendencies.

Physical signs can include little tolerance for pain, rapid
metabolism, lean build, profuse sweating, seasonal allergies,
and frequent colds.

So, for POIS symptoms that last a few days, I'm thinking that maybe we have a problem with N-methyltransferase, the chemical that breaks down Histamine.... so after orgasm, Histamine gets in our blood, sits there for too long, and the symptoms develop... after a few days EVENTUALLY the excess Histamine is removed from the blood stream and the symptoms disappear.

Just another random theory i have....

You could try taking an antihistamine?

Exactly. I'm tempted to experiment with this if I can accumulate enuf days off work proceeding, though that wont be for awhile =(

Also, I just happened across a book on the intarweb that may have some good info.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7ccB3CCAtYkC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=sleep+NMDA+receptors&source=bl&ots=JGlkc3q-6I&sig=C667SObFlnQuh2zO5mSa5Z2JAiw&hl=en&ei=kXBvSvXBM46eMcuw9OMI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

It notes: "Prolactin, which is elevated if its secretion is not inhibited by dopamine and other factors, is an endogenous anxiolytic neuropeptide that reduces HPA axis and oxytocin responses in males and is partly responsible for their postcoital sexual refractory period by inhibiting mesocorticolimbic DA secretion. Male CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome?)  patients often relapse after orgasm, because they often do not have enough dopamine and norepinephrine reserve to perform independent activities of daily living even prior to ejaculation, or because their catecholamine autoreceptors are hypersensitive."

hmm okay I have to do look up a couple of those terms now =P gonna see if the university library might have this book, looks rather pricey ($50+)
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5099 on: 28/07/2009 23:10:18 »

 

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