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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6437236 times)

Offline Pronobis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5100 on: 28/07/2009 23:47:41 »
OFF TOPIC : Humor

(We can't always be so dead serious around here! ;D )

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

My Urologist.....

As men age, we start seeing more of the medical world, which
nowadays seems  to include an  increasing number of women as our
physicians and therapists.  And in  my case, a new urologist...

My family doctor recently referred me to a just out of
medical school female urologist. I saw her  yesterday, and she's
absolutely drop-dead gorgeous as well as unbelievably  sexy.

She told me that I must stop masturbating.


I asked her why.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

She said, "Because I'm trying to examine you..."

coool )))))))))))

[/quote]

ps - let me know the Switzerland telephone charges by PM for reimbursement. [/quote]

What does this mean?
 

Offline helpimsad

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5101 on: 29/07/2009 01:03:33 »
hi im joe, 18 and just found out about pois about a 5 months ago i know forsure i have it my main problem is the clouded thoughts after orgasm and social trouble but ive found in my drug experimenting days that xanex helped with my pois i was more social and ppl liked how i acted better and i felt like the real me but everytime i try to stop i go for a week top then the smallest thing like a picture of a hot babe or my girlfriend texting me and talking dirty will get me horny and i have to do it but i dont like it becus of what happens after and for a week and a half straight ive whacked since i was 12 used to everyday not nowing how bad it is and never noticed until now about the pois i mostly get hungry after orgasm my head feels weird sometimes itchy eyes and i get real hungry but if anyone has found a remedy for this at all plz reply ill check daily p.m. me anything to help too i want to stop masturbatingidont know how hard it will be and i dont know if that will help stop the pois will it? ill stop if it makes me SANE again...

i would also like to know if this has any negative inpact long-term on the brain
« Last Edit: 29/07/2009 06:05:23 by helpimsad »
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5102 on: 29/07/2009 10:43:37 »
helpimsad,
Quote
hi im joe, 18 and just found out about pois about a 5 months ago i know forsure i have it my main problem is the clouded thoughts after orgasm and social trouble but ive found in my drug experimenting days that xanex helped with my pois i was more social and ppl liked how i acted better and i felt like the real me but everytime i try to stop i go for a week top then the smallest thing like a picture of a hot babe or my girlfriend texting me and talking dirty will get me horny and i have to do it but i dont like it becus of what happens after and for a week and a half straight ive whacked since i was 12 used to everyday not nowing how bad it is and never noticed until now about the pois i mostly get hungry after orgasm my head feels weird sometimes itchy eyes and i get real hungry but if anyone has found a remedy for this at all plz reply ill check daily p.m. me anything to help too i want to stop masturbatingidont know how hard it will be and i dont know if that will help stop the pois will it? ill stop if it makes me SANE again...

i would also like to know if this has any negative inpact long-term on the brain

Stopping masturbation is something that can seem impossible, but I can assure you that it is possible. You have to remove anything that would lead you to it from before your eyes. If you persist you will succeed and it will eventually feel normal to not "have to". You will still have urges but you will be able to ignore them. Like any goal you have to set it in you mind that you are determined to do it, and then go for it, and then learn to use punctuation.
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5103 on: 29/07/2009 13:34:23 »
Quote
You could try taking an antihistamine?

Exactly. I'm tempted to experiment with this if I can accumulate enuf days off work proceeding, though that wont be for awhile =(

Underwater was trying out the antihistamine Claritin back on page 170 of this thread.

Quote
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg240855

Its active ingredient is Loratadine. Wikipedia has this to say about Loratadine:

Quote
Non-sedating antihistamine
As a non-sedating antihistamine, loratadine causes less sedation and psychomotor impairment than the older antihistamines because it penetrates the blood brain barrier only to a slight extent.

It would be interesting to see how one of the sedative antihistamines would affect POIS - the sedative ones cross the blood brain barrier far more easily, so might possibly have a stronger effect?
The one I'm planning on trying is called Diphenhydramine which is most often found in "sleep aids" like Benedryl and Nytol nowadays. Obviously this can only be taken shortly before you go to sleep, nobody wants to fall asleep at work or at the wheel of their car .....  [:-'(]

Will let you know how successful (or not) it turns out to be!
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5104 on: 29/07/2009 13:45:12 »
Also, I just happened across a book on the intarweb that may have some good info.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7ccB3CCAtYkC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=sleep+NMDA+receptors&source=bl&ots=JGlkc3q-6I&sig=C667SObFlnQuh2zO5mSa5Z2JAiw&hl=en&ei=kXBvSvXBM46eMcuw9OMI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

It notes: "Prolactin, which is elevated if its secretion is not inhibited by dopamine and other factors, is an endogenous anxiolytic neuropeptide that reduces HPA axis and oxytocin responses in males and is partly responsible for their postcoital sexual refractory period by inhibiting mesocorticolimbic DA secretion. Male CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome?)  patients often relapse after orgasm, because they often do not have enough dopamine and norepinephrine reserve to perform independent activities of daily living even prior to ejaculation, or because their catecholamine autoreceptors are hypersensitive."
Hi Defsync, very interesting post. Some people here took wellbutrin which is acting on dopamine and norepinephrine without much success (please correct me if I'm wrong) so there are perhaps other factors involved with these ones.

hi im joe, 18 and just found out about pois about a 5 months ago i know forsure i have it my main problem is the clouded thoughts after orgasm and social trouble but ive found in my drug experimenting days that xanex helped with my pois i was more social and ppl liked how i acted better and i felt like the real me but everytime i try to stop i go for a week top then the smallest thing like a picture of a hot babe or my girlfriend texting me and talking dirty will get me horny and i have to do it but i dont like it becus of what happens after and for a week and a half straight ive whacked since i was 12 used to everyday not nowing how bad it is and never noticed until now about the pois i mostly get hungry after orgasm my head feels weird sometimes itchy eyes and i get real hungry but if anyone has found a remedy for this at all plz reply ill check daily p.m. me anything to help too i want to stop masturbatingidont know how hard it will be and i dont know if that will help stop the pois will it? ill stop if it makes me SANE again...

i would also like to know if this has any negative inpact long-term on the brain
Hi Joe, according to a medical book (from 1976) sexual abstinence is possible while keeping a good health. At your age and with a girlfriend it can be more difficult. Unfortunately I don't have the absolute truth ... my suggestion could be to do exercise (endurance involved), find several books about good diets for exercise, it will help to reduce sexuality if POIS is a problem. If you're really not well and want to stop med see a good MD.

By the way you're an other case helped with benzo ..
« Last Edit: 29/07/2009 13:54:09 by martin88 »
 

Offline Pantaloon

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5105 on: 29/07/2009 20:50:50 »
Has anybody else tried Nytol Herbal immediately following orgasm?

For the first couple of nights after an orgasm, I have very poor (practically no) sleep, waking up constantly with heart (and mind) racing. I recall that this problem sleeping is quite a common symptom for POIS sufferers.
So, recently I've been taking Nytol Herbal sleeping pills immediately following orgasm (and the next evening) which certainly helps me sleep AND crucially, I believe it significantly lessens my POIS.

Nytol Herbal contains "Hops, Valerian and Passion Flower".

It would be interesting if somebody else could give it a try.

Regards

Pantaloon
 

Offline Danny_Boy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5106 on: 29/07/2009 21:42:38 »
Dear POIS co-sufferers,

I am a 25 yo European male suffering from POIS for the last 5-6 years and I have recently found out about some stuff not mentioned here yet. In case my experience helps someone, I decided to share my story with you.

My health problems started maybe 7 years ago and included fatigue, growing brain fog, bad memory and in the last few years hairloss all over the head. 18 months ago a coincidence led me to searching for information on health on the internet. So began my quest for regaining my health. After going through some wild alternative medical theories (alkalizing the body - doesnīt work, taking great amounts of iodine - some help, anti-candida diet - no help ... ) I found out about hair tissue mineral analysis (HTMA). I had a test done any the results indicated serious adrenal burnout. I started the recommended diet and got noticeably better but my progress stopped a month later (I am on the diet to the day and still feel worse when I go off it). So began the second wave of my searching for medical information, this time I hit hormones. I had my thyroid checked - with a TSH of 0.58 and T4, T3, FT4 up in the upper thirds of normal ranges, my thyroid works perfectly. My morning blood cortisol came back at 453 (normal 118-618), DHEAS 8.2 (normal 0.95 - 11.9), Total Testosterone 21.86 (9.9 - 27.8), Aldosterone 296.6 (30-300) .. all the hormone tests I had done were not only in normal ranges, they were in healthy ranges!

So, I have gone through the "It is probably in your head" type of stupidity many times, being treated like a psycho. However, I knew that the thing was nutritional or at least seated in my body, since taking antidepressant did absolutely nothing for me at the age of 18. So I read up on people being high on copper. These people need to take certain copper antagonists (like Molybdenum, zinc, sulphur) and avoid copper containing foods. And since a copper toxicity takes a lot of time to show on a hair test and I had a strong suspicion it might be my case, I decided to give these antagonists a try. This is my third week on a specially designed copper antagonising supplement regimen and I am getting better by the day. Most of all, during all of those POIS filled years, I could never go without a nocturnal emission if I tried to abstain from sex for more than a week. After each ejaculation my life turned into a suffering for a few days. Since I couldnīt go without an ejaculation for more than a week, my life was pretty much halved into periods of feeling bad and feeling like the biggest loser of the world. Now with the supplements, the story is different - tomorrow it will be my third week without a nocturnal or voluntary ejaculation and I just feel fine. Another improvements that I have encountered during those three weeks were increased physical stamina, much sharper thinking and some others.

So what is the point of my message? 1/ POIS need not be caused by hormones. (I had prolactin checked too, I have been taking some L-DOPA containing supplements and these didnīt really help either)
2/ There is this thing called orthomolecularism, that tried to treat a person via shifting the biochemistry using nutritional
supplements. Even though HTMA is definitely not perfect, sometines it is all we have.

I wish my experience shed some new light at the problem of POIS for someone.

Good luck to all of you,
Daniel.
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5107 on: 30/07/2009 02:37:08 »
Since I couldnīt go without an ejaculation for more than a week, my life was pretty much halved into periods of feeling bad and feeling like the biggest loser of the world.

2 things I learned in order to stop or lessen the nocturnal emissions:

1) lucid dreaming... you teach yourself to be able to take conscious control of a dream whenever you want... so if a dream at night turns "sexy" or w/e you can take control of it and wake yourself up immediately before anything happens

2) learn how to use the muscles that you control your urination with to the extent that when you feel the beginning of an orgasm coming on, you clench them with such ferocity, holding it for a period of at least 20 seconds, that it pretty much halts the orgasm at the beginning, and you only emit a small amount of seminal fluid. This can be used ala lucid dreaming if in the dream you cannot maintain control and you feel the beginnings of an orgasm. This method is also used by kama sutra followers to "orgasm without ejaculation", although its not really a full-on orgasm in the sense that all the endorphins and seminal fluids are released (hence the benefit of this method in regards to POIS). In the kama sutra you do this a couple times and then you can supposedly have sex for a lonnnnngggg time since after each of these it desensitizes you somewhat. With this method you only get about, I'd say, 10-15% of the POIS symptoms you normally get with a 100% orgasm.

3) subliminal suggestion- surprisingly this works rather well. As you lay in bed, waiting to fall asleep, you say at least ten times something to the effect of "I will not dream of sex tonight. I will not have an orgasm tonight when I'm asleep". And by saying it I mean you ahve to vocalize it sternly, not whisper it or go over it in your head.

I've used these 3 methods together for the last 4 years to maintain practically 99%ish abstinence (although with #2 there are very minor POIS symptoms, like i mentioned). So over 1400+ days I've only had about maybe 4 full nocturnal emissions.

Pretty good success rate, if you ask me.

How to teach yourself how to lucid dream: as you lay in bed waiting for sleep, you vocalize "I will take control of my dream tonight." at least 10+ times. You also sleep with a moderately bright light on.

The lucid dreaming masks that you can buy on the internet work by detecting when you are in REM sleep, then flashing a light in succession, which supposedly you will notice while dreaming, but not intense enough to wake you up. I really dont find these expensive masks in the least bit necessary. Just keep trying my method every night until you finally find yourself able to take control of a dream at will. On the plus side, the skill is like riding a bicycle, once you learn it, you dont forget it. =) I was fortunate enough to have already learned how to lucid dream before I even hit puberty, just from reading some articles on it and figuring it out for myself. Once you can control a dream, you can visualize images into MUCH greater detail (for instance look at a tree once yer in control of the dream... you will notice every individual leaf that flutters in the wind, every nook and cranny of the bark.... if you reach out to touch the tree you will feel the roughness and texture of the bark). Now for those that dont have POIS, lucid dreaming is a fun way to load yer dream up with lots of hot hot girls and have wild crazy dream sex you never ever thought in your wildest imagination you'd be able to have =) but of course save that for after you find yourself a cure lol


Hope this helps =P
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 02:42:54 by Defsync »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5108 on: 30/07/2009 05:36:44 »

Defsync, lucid dreaming is one of the most fascinating experiences of my life. I didn't use the mask, but the MILD (Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreaming) technique that Stephen LaBerge, the Stanford pioneer who developed it and wrote about it in his books. He also started the Lucidity Institute (lucidity.com). I met him a couple times, very interesting guy. But it became harder and harder for me to implement his approach. I assumed that getting older had something to do with it. But maybe I'll try the mask.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5109 on: 30/07/2009 05:58:12 »
TECH PROBLEMS UPDATE


TECH PROBLEMS

Is anyone else having problems with writing long posts or Private Messages?

When the writing gets to a certain length, the preview box that we write in "snaps back" on me and I can't see what I'm typing. So the only way around this is to copy and paste into Word, then copy and paste back to the POIS thread.

I've been complaining about this to Naked Science Forum people.

If you have the same problem with long posts/PM's, please PM me about it, or post about it here.

THANKS!



Martin, and John21, thank you very much for all your input regarding this problem some of us have had in posting and sending messages. It's been going on now for several months.

An admin from Naked Science Forum (NSF) couldn't replicate the problem, so he was unable to offer a solution. Martin wrote up a way to replicate it and I sent it on to NSF admin.

John also wrote about his experience and suggestion and I passed that on as well.

Here's what NSF had to say about John's PM:


That is increadibly useful. I have looked it up and found that there is a bug in ie8 which due to bizzarre reasons breaks text areas when their width is set as a percentage. I think I have now used a fixed width on ie8 and hopefully that will help.

sorry.


So, finally....a breakthrough!! (I hope)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5110 on: 30/07/2009 06:08:49 »

From demo: "Let me know the Switzerland telephone charges by PM for reimbursement."

What does this mean?


It means, to send me a Private Message (PM) with your telephone costs to call WHO in Switzerland, so that you can be reimbursed. It seems that you had lengthy conversations.
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 06:10:33 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5111 on: 30/07/2009 06:15:19 »

helpimsad and Danny_Boy, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5112 on: 30/07/2009 06:24:01 »

helpimsad and Danny_Boy,, this post might help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this POIS forum:


SEARCH POIS FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within POIS Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5113 on: 30/07/2009 07:45:53 »
POIS WEBSITE - Under Construction!

Mat (our hands-on, volunteer/web designer) and I, your trusted servant, have begun a website...

Please let's not use the forum to discuss this. Private Message to me is best for now.

Let's please keep it simple for now! The discussions that Mat and I have had over just this simple beginning tells me that it could go on forever if we become nitpicky about it. (But we certainly don't want any misrepresentation).

If the private messages become unwieldy, we'll have to form a small "Web Committee", not something I'm fond of.

Let's keep in mind that we simply need to start. EVERYTHING can be changed.

As you surely know, we do not have a budget for this. So PLEASE don't compare what we need (just a decent web presence) to producing a Masterpiece To Behold For Centuries To Come  :)

So, here it is:

http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/

Let the fun begin...........

THANK YOU, MAT!!
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 08:29:42 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5114 on: 30/07/2009 08:02:00 »

And thank you, B_Jim, for more than 2 years of solid dedication to this forum!!

And maybe, B_Jim, someone, some day, will inform me what that "Hero Member" means. (I do like Hero Sandwiches).
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 08:28:19 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5115 on: 30/07/2009 08:23:57 »
POIS treatment update

Marched (actually drove) over to the University Lab today. My endocrinologist is monitoring my progress, including labwork, about every two months now.

Today, blood was drawn for measuring Testosterone, including Total Testosterone, Bioavailable Testosterone, and Free Testosterone.

Prolactin was measured once again. My readings have been very high, but the endocrinologist doesn't seem too concerned.

Basic Metabolic Panel, which measures sugar (glucose) level, electrolyte and fluid balance, and kidney function.

Hemoglobin was also measured. And another panel that looks at calcium and other similar data. And Complete Blood Count (CBC).

Results available in 2 days, appointment with the endocrinologist next week.

I have 7 months experience now with this POIS diagnosis and treatment and I'm very pleased, and I feel very optimistic that, with all of us working together, we can eventually eliminate this scourge!

Our ability to positively deal with physicians about POIS has increased dramatically.

I'm certain that our small band of sleuths here, without a budget, have accomplished as much or more than some medical research testing facility with endless budgets yet low-to-medium motivation.

We're motivated!
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 09:31:55 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5116 on: 30/07/2009 08:57:24 »

TECH PROBLEM UPDATE

I forgot to mention that Martin has had success by using Mozilla Firefox. Something worth trying if you are still having the "jumping" problem.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5117 on: 30/07/2009 09:25:44 »

We've exceeded 350,000 page views of this thread!
 

Offline THISFORUMROCKS!

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5118 on: 30/07/2009 11:04:19 »
Wow this thread is great!  ::) Nice work on starting a POIS website too!

A few observations from which you can hopefully draw some theories...

What about Celiac disease being a factor? I would like to inquire about this on a Celiac forum. It has many issues to the best of my knowledge including deficits in Essential Fatty Acids, Amino Acids, Vitamins, Minerals etc? So the point is that when these things are not absorbed into the body, a myriad of things can go wrong; potentially leading to imbalances causing POIS.

A FEW examples of perhaps HUNDREDS of possibilities: B-12 deficiency messes with your mind and energy- could this be more noticeable with POIS? Could it become worse over days/weeks time as these or other vitamins are slowly depleted from liver storage? D vitamin deficiency is significant since it is considered more like a steroid by some.

Also with Celiac being an autoimmune disease, it could release harmful substances and or damage areas related to POIS.

Some things that people are trying may not be working due to lack of absorption/metabolization/etc.

I decided to try a gluten free diet, take every common vitamin and mineral.

The most significantly positive things I have tried include going gluten free, taking a B multivitamin, taking vitamin D for my deficiency, and taking a B-12 methlcobalamin? sublingual megadose. Any theories as to why B-12 sublingual might decrease brain fog, depression, chronic fatigue?

Sorry if i'm rambling too much but my mind is exploding with ideas that I am really happy to throw out for such a cause. I hope this has given you some food for thought. Has anyone else tried eating gluten free or taking sublingual B-12 with B-multi?



 

 
   
 

Offline Pronobis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5119 on: 30/07/2009 12:09:47 »
I forgot to tell you about my blood test (made some hours after 2 orgasms). So according to reference values all hormones are normal, but my testosterone level is high . Do you think that's normal?
I read that decreasing level of testosterone results with a stress, the latter is the cause of some skin problems (as I have). If I have high testosterone level what could it be?  ??? ??? ???
 

Offline Danny_Boy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5120 on: 30/07/2009 17:03:44 »
Defsync, thank you for the information. I have been doing all kinds of tantra practices to hold my juices in, to no avail. Really, supplementing molybdenum was the thing in this matter for me.

Dear B_Jim,

I definitely agree, that there are more causes of POIS. I just didnīt want anybody to belive that POIS implies bad hormone situation. Also, on the realthyroidhelp.com forum I have read about a young man having testosterone level of ~200 (measured in the units, where the healthy range is 800-1000), and he was having no problems with either getting an erection or being knocked out after an ejaculation. So neither "low hormones implies POIS" holds in all cases.

As for adrenal fatigue. I donīt think I have any (clearly proved by the blood tests). This is the reason why I said that the hair test is definitely not perfect (some living tissue tests would be better, but I know of no place, where they take a sample of your, say, tigh muscle and analyze it). It said I had AF even though I had none.

The copper thing, as far as I understand it, goes like this. Wilsonīs disease is an inborn disease of copper metabolism, so cooper toxicity and Wilsonīs are two different things in the way orthomolecularism sees it. Copper toxicity simply means that the body has accumulated more copper than it should and now copper is sitting at some sites/enzymes etc. where other elements should be, making metabolism less efficient. I have been taking Zinc supplements over the last years too, to no avail. The problem with zinc, as I read, is that it is only an absorption antagonist. Zinc creates a protein, that inhibits the uptake of copper in the intestines. Hence, if you already are high on copper, zinc will only help you slow down the aggravation of the situation, but will do nothing in order for your body to get rid of the excess copper. This is why other nutrients must be taken (like sulphur any molybdenum).

I momentarily follow this regimen:
3x a day 5mg manganese
4x a day 150 mcg Molybdenum
3x a day 2g of MSM (for sulphur)
3x a day 200mcg niacin bound chromium
3x a day 10mg of ZMA (zinc bound to L-monomethionine)

All of this is supposed to help the body get rid of excess copper and iron (when copper goes high, iron retention goes high).

Here goes a private theory of mine. As a kid + adolescent, I used to overmasturbate a lot. Men lose zinc when they come, so I was low on zinc and my body was open to taking up excessive amounts of copper for years (thatīs how I think I got copper toxic). So I believe that getting rid of excessive copper and replacing it with zinc, I can get better even from the POIS perspective. A pro of this theory is that it sounds at least a bit logical. On the other hand, if every guy who overmasturbated when he was young, was sufering from POIS, this forum would be much larger. It is true, that some congenital copper overload might have happenned, but... This uncertainty of things brings me to the next paragraph.

Here I think I should add something like a disclaimer. After being involved for more than a year in this health regaining quest I know that absolutely nothing works 100%. I was told that everything was in my head - wrong. That antidepressants would help me - wrong. That I would get better if I ate only meat for 2 months - wrong (this is good for weight loss though:). That getting superdoses of iodine would make me disease-free - wrong. That practising yoga would heal me completely - no no. That eating systemic proteolytic enzymes would make me super healthy - wrong. That I would get healthy by just following a given diet - you know the answer for that one too. So, nothing is for sure. I just donīt want anybody to be disappointed if this copper thing doesnīt prove to work out for them, if it makes them feel worse (which is likely to happen according to orthomolecularism authorities, as copper starts being dumped out of places, where it was put by the body to do as little harm as possible), etc. Sometimes I have the feeling that I am just trying to make sense out of thin air, but when you take a look at doctors not knowing what the body works like, the growing prevalence of nearly any disease, you get the feeling that they are not doing much better than I am (we are).

Danny
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5121 on: 30/07/2009 18:00:30 »


THISFORUMROCKS!, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5122 on: 30/07/2009 18:04:20 »


THISFORUMROCKS!, this post might help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this POIS forum:


SEARCH POIS FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within POIS Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5123 on: 30/07/2009 18:08:10 »
Nice work on the webpage!  Is there a link to this forum?
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5124 on: 30/07/2009 21:50:36 »
Thanks Mat,Demo for the website!

Has anybody else tried Nytol Herbal immediately following orgasm?
.... I've been taking Nytol Herbal sleeping pills immediately following orgasm (and the next evening) which certainly helps me sleep AND crucially, I believe it significantly lessens my POIS. Nytol Herbal contains "Hops, Valerian and Passion Flower".
Good suggestion. Passion flower contains chrysin which blocks the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
Recently I had good success for insomnia in POIS after eating cooked leeks...(I don't eat this usually so it can be a temporary effect) 

These people need to take certain copper antagonists (like Molybdenum, zinc, sulphur) and avoid copper containing foods. And since a copper toxicity takes a lot of time to show on a hair test and I had a strong suspicion it might be my case, I decided to give these antagonists a try. This is my third week on a specially designed copper antagonising supplement regimen and I am getting better by the day.
Danny your experience is interesting, really hope it will continue. We talked about excessive copper before but it wasn't mentionned if this was causing POIS. As I said in my first post here my POIS is definitely and considerably increased when eating raw vegetables (high ratio copper/zinc) but I don't know if it can be related. (vitamin C is also a problem for me)

Defsync, I tried "suggestion" a lot to avoid NEs while sexually abstinent but I had no success. It's sure that I didn't try as much as you did.. Also I already said this a long time before, I had some bad effects (kind of depression) from antihistamines taken every evening for a while to avoid NEs. I can say I'm not the same person since I tried this.
« Last Edit: 30/07/2009 21:53:54 by martin88 »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5124 on: 30/07/2009 21:50:36 »

 

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