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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6430312 times)

Offline Paulrx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5725 on: 06/10/2009 12:05:09 »
demografx, it wouldn't be dangerous to take bromo or dostinex prior and after the orgasm. Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?

Also, you never answered me about a technique called prostate milking, which consist in expelling semen by some kind of massage, therefore not involving any orgasm. Could that allow POIS sufferers being abstinent for extended period of time by preventing tension build up?
« Last Edit: 06/10/2009 12:16:15 by Paulrx »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5726 on: 06/10/2009 17:41:46 »
demografx, it wouldn't be dangerous to take bromo or dostinex prior and after the orgasm. Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?

Also, you never answered me about a technique called prostate milking, which consist in expelling semen by some kind of massage, therefore not involving any orgasm. Could that allow POIS sufferers being abstinent for extended period of time by preventing tension build up?


I was just going to say not everyone has high prolactima so that might not be cause, you have check to see whether high or not, have you ?
Me for example have perfect prolactin level but close to lowest level of testosterone, during pois
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5727 on: 06/10/2009 17:43:26 »

Isn't that [testosterone use] why body builders have smaller testicles?


And you know this how?  :)

From word of mouth and several teachers and partly experience. You use testosterone without having deficiency your body starts to shut down its operation. 
When i used dhea( without guidiance i will say i noticed shrinkage in my testicles) not the same as testosterone but the precursor. 


CC, my endocrinologist agrees with you. I emailed him and he replied, "Too much testosterone may significantly decrease testes size. Replacement doses will not."

So thankfully I'm not in for shrinkage probs!

What is a replacement dose, are you talking about enough to make up for the difference.

I am curious if my testosterone is so close to lower limit, will it fall below the limit as i get to the age when testosterone level starts to drop naturally.
Demograpx  could this be what happened to you and took doctors so long to realize it.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2009 17:51:47 by CCconfucius »
 

Offline Dean93

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5728 on: 06/10/2009 20:25:09 »

It's been 22 days since I last had a release, and I'm feeling some pressure that doesn't feel too healthy.


What is your average length of abstinence?

Thanks Demo. My average number that my body naturally allows is in the lower 20's, I had NE this morning, so 23 would be about right.

Thanks for letting me know about the turmeric GC.

 

Offline Paulrx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5729 on: 06/10/2009 21:04:52 »
CCconfucius, my idea is not to lower prolactin in general but to prevent the body from releasing excess amount following an orgasm. I'm tempted to think that the prolactin spike my me responsible for the cascade of reactions taking place in the brain and responsible for POIS.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5730 on: 07/10/2009 06:09:41 »

my idea is...to prevent the body from releasing excess amount[s of prolactin] following an orgasm...[T]he prolactin spike may be responsible for the cascade of reactions taking place in the brain and responsible for POIS.


Fascinating, Paul! Can you elaborate any more? How you arrived at that idea, etc.?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5731 on: 07/10/2009 06:15:31 »

It's been 22 days since I last had a release, and I'm feeling some pressure that doesn't feel too healthy.


What is your average length of abstinence?


Thanks Demo. My average number that my body naturally allows is in the lower 20's, I had NE this morning, so 23 would be about right.


OK, then, sorry, I was wrong about the "unusual" abstinence pressure that you're feeling right now. Because it seems that you're within the range of abstinence that your body is accustomed to and comfortable with.

How are you doing after the NE?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5732 on: 07/10/2009 06:45:37 »

demografx,

Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?


Past forum discussions (not many) about Deprenyl:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=deprenyl+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


You never answered me about a technique called prostate milking.


You never asked me.  ;D

(1) it was an extension of a dialogue between you and Defsync, and (2) it was either posed vaguely as a question to Defsync, or as a general question to no one in particular as you can see below:


yeah i can do that [orgasm without ejaculation] but it doesnt work for me, as i've stated before whatever causes the "feel good" sensation, with or without ejac, causes my POIS


Have some POIS sufferers tried a technique called prostate milking?


Besides, I'm no more of an expert than anyone else here. :)
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 06:51:11 by demografx »
 

Offline Paulrx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5733 on: 07/10/2009 10:46:22 »
demografx, the prolactin spike following an ejaculation induces drowsiness. Prolactin is also the only known neurochemical manifestation of ejaculation. Why don't women get such drowsiness and refractory period after an orgasm? Because they their bodies don't produce such spikes. It seems logical to assume that the prolactin spike in certain susceptible individuals triggers a cascade of biochemical reactions. I of course don't have a mechanism to offer but I suspect POIS sufferer have somewhat compromised dopaminergic system.

To prove this theory valid, we simply need to prevent the body from releasing prolactin during and just after an ejaculation. We have 2 interesting molecules to test this hypothesis: bromocriptine and cabergoline.

Another very interesting drug I already mentioned is Deprenyl. It's a MAO inhibitor, and for this reason decreases prolactin. PEA, which is a related compound, alone or in conjunction could also be of the greatest interest.
 
One should also understand that it is not about trying to chronically lower a prolactin level that is normal in most cases, but to counter the sudden and massive prolactin spike.

To make a link with my previous posts, the non-parmacological approach would consist is making sure the body does not produce prolactin spikes by avoid ejaculation. I believe most the POIS sufferers are wrongly assuming that orgasm is the culprit, it's more likely the ejaculation, triggered by the sympathetic system, unlike orgasm, that produces the spike. The reason of this confusion is that orgasm and ejaculation occur sultaneously, but are in fact two totally different physiological events. Therefore, I was indicating the 2 possible methods to avoid ejaculation without suffering from sexual tension.

The first approach is dry orgasm. I am not sure at all that the people who claim to have mastered these techniques have truly become multi-orgasmic. A dry orgasm is most of the time a retrograde ejaculation, resulting of course in a prolactin spike.

The second approach is called prostate milking, which is originally a medical procedure used to empty the prostate of certain patients.I believe that the fullness of the prostate is responsible for feeling of sexual tension described by abstinent people. Emptying the prostate without necessitating an ejaculation could provide relief to POIS sufferers.

You might want to ask me then how real dry orgasm could provide relief since the prostate wouldn't get emptied obviously. This is very simple: the prostate is a very pulsatile organ, always ready to shoot. This is by the way what characterizes premature ejaculation. However, if the sympathetic stimulation of the prostate has been greatly sh1t down by regular dry orgasms, the prostate ceases to be in a pulsatile state and therefore can empty itself into the bladder, which is a normal phenomenon abstinent people observe.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 10:56:59 by Paulrx »
 

Offline Dean93

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5734 on: 07/10/2009 21:30:32 »
I'm doing alright, I guess, relatively. For being in POIS. As I've said, I have a pretty long duration, but I've noticed that I've never gone a whole period without having another orgasm. I'm going to try not to have any and see if it will shorten the duration, which will stand as motivation for other times. I'm also going to get more sleep.

I have a tendency to completely forget about POIS once it leaves, because I want to enjoy the time when I'm not symptomatic, but it's really hindering my progress. I'm going to have to start testing even if it means losing some part of my "actual" life. Otherwise the cycle will never end, and I'll always be where I was 2+ years ago. It's all just very unfortunate. I'm confident that I'll beat it one day though, with the help of all of information on this thread. Thanks everyone.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 23:15:58 by Dean93 »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5735 on: 07/10/2009 22:02:56 »
I was just going to say on website we dont have ambient's success story with trying 5- http.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5736 on: 07/10/2009 22:35:37 »
CC, I'll email Pyro with your question. His web access in China is spotty. Thanks.

Or were you referring to B_Jim's summary?
« Last Edit: 07/10/2009 22:37:55 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5737 on: 07/10/2009 22:45:35 »

Dean, very glad to hear you push for testing. What's kept me going for 30+ years of POIS was to not succumb to despair - - - by doing the next POSSIBLE thing...testing, contacting "experts", joining this forum, etc.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5738 on: 07/10/2009 22:57:47 »

Paulrx, your ideas are very interesting. Was it just the post-ejac solo-neurochemical-manifestation or something else that brought you to the prolactin theory? Your idea caught my attention because I panicked for months about my sky-high prolactin (10X reference range) and found myself to be my own doctor because no one knows anything about prolactin in men! I cured it by quitting reglan, which I found in wikipedia to often cause prolactin increase. Amazingly, none of my top physicians were aware of that. Again, male prolactin sdeems to be ignored by the medical community.

Do you think an (f)MRI at orgasm could reveal an abnormally high prolactin spike? Or maybe we just need to do a routine hormonal lab test immediately after orgasm to tell the story. Then perhaps we can do a comparison of those results with a non-POIS "normal" individual also at orgasm. Statistical reliability would of course require more than just 2 individuals.

Re bromocriptine, my friend who warned me about it is a highly respected Harvard biophycisist who pioneered much of the HIV/AIDS research on protease inhibitors, in HIV/AIDS' research infancy. But maybe you're saying it's safer to test it  only before/after orgasm vs. a steady daily regimen?

BTW, Paulrx, you sound like you have experience or education in the health field?
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 05:11:08 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5739 on: 07/10/2009 23:58:34 »

B_Jim, thank you very much for detailing your current experience!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5740 on: 08/10/2009 00:09:01 »
CC, thanks for asking about my TRT. TRT applies various forms of testosterone when the testes produce insufficient testosterone. I think you're right to expect a decline as you age. How much is anybody's guess.

I wish I knew my T history. I don't trust some recent years' testing because they used one simple number, maybe even the wrong one. Then the lab once said my T was high. A year later I found out why: the report said I was female! There's no way my first name could ever be interpreted as female! (No, I didn't tell the lab my name was demografx ;D)

I think testosterone can help even if someone is "normal". JUST A HUNCH! I went from 10mg daily which brought me to "normal". With endo approval, I upped the dose 50% to 15mg, and...I feel better!
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 00:12:15 by demografx »
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5741 on: 08/10/2009 03:50:11 »
I'm also going to get more sleep.

I forgot to mention that the time when I developed POIS, sleep was a big factor. The coffee that I used to drink prevented me from dreaming for probably 1.5 years.  I also used to sleep with a fan blowing in my face but now I prefer no noise at all because it leaves me feeling more refreshed in the mornings.  Now I dream all the time.  How do all of you sleep?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5742 on: 08/10/2009 05:04:23 »


How do all of you sleep?


I sleep too well!

I tend to oversleep. Which is not good.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5743 on: 08/10/2009 06:18:09 »

I was just going to say on website we dont have ambient's success story with trying 5- htp.


CC, Pyro wrote back: "This is something I will certainly add under successful  methods.  Iíll have to search the forum for Ambientís success story to get more details first; what was the syntax for searching the forum through google? [CC, I just sent him the search results/links]  It might take me awhile with the [Chinese] internet always flaking out on meÖ."

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5744 on: 08/10/2009 06:35:25 »
Thought some of you might want to see Ambient's post that CC is referring to:

CC, it's been about 6 months since this post on his cure was written. Do we have an update?

5-HTP

Hey everyone.

Apologies for the large gap in my posts, but I have been conducting my experiment based on my Serotonin Imbalance theory

My projected self-treatment consisted of:

X2 100mg 5-HTP capsules per day (One late morning, the other before bed)

Prior to treatments, my POIS symptoms, and quite frequent out-of-POIS symptoms included:

Depression
Low Mood
Negativity and obsessive thoughts
Low self-esteem
Strong fatigue
Carbohydrate cravings
Low mental energy
Poor attention span
Impatience
Poor concentration
Poor memory
Thoughts of death (these were only during the intense POIS stages, don't worry :))
Low motivation

etc...

I conducted the experiment for the length of two weeks, with the same regime of 2 100mg 5-HTP capsules daily.

Here is my feedback.

I am delighted to report that I now consider myself virtually cured of POIS since this treatment began, leading me to believe that my POIS was Serotonin-related. As you can see, almost every symptoms listed above mirrors those of a Serotonin imbalance. (Percentage cured 90+ %)

Here are the symptoms which have been alleviated:

Depression - My depressive symptoms have disappeared completely. I am more content and happy after orgasm.

Low Mood - I no longer suffer from a low mood the day following orgasm and thereafter.

Negativity - My thoughts dwell on only the positive since my treatment began.

Low self-esteem - I have found myself to be more confident than previously following orgasm (though i am still quite quiet)

Strong Fatigue - My fatigue has also almost completely disappeared. Now, following orgasm, i can find the strength to do virtually anything physical.

Carbohydrate cravings - After orgasm, i would usually feel intense pangs of hunger, which would only disappear temporarily if I were to eat a lot of carbohydrates. This is no longer an issue, and I hardly ever snack now.

Low mental energy - After orgasm, i used to feel exhausted and tired mentally. This tiredness would ususally last a few days. Now, however I have much more mental energy after orgasm, with my cognition skills being virtually unhindered.

Poor attention span - After orgasm, and sometimes out-of-POIS, i would experience a poor attention span, with me being unable to concentrate on anything for more than a period of about 12 seconds. Since my treatment, i am pleased to say that my attention span has sky-rocketed, with me being able to concentrate for endless amounts of time. For example, being a huge fan of the band, The Doors, i would never before have been able to listen to their epic song, "The End", which lasts over 11 minutes, without stopping and moving on to another song. However since treatment, I have been able to listen to the song back-to-back without even letting my mind divert elsewhere.

Impatience - Before treatment, i would become very impatient, especially after orgasm, unwilling to wait large amounts of time for anything. Since treatment, I am pleased to say that I am more more patient, willing to wait any length of time, even after orgasm.

Poor concentration - My poor concentration has also disappeared. Before my treatment, I would sometimes be unable to follow even a basic line of language in a book, for example, after orgasm. Now, however, after orgasm i am much more able to focus and concentrate.

Poor memory - Before my treatment, i would notice a decrease in my memory function after orgasm, which, as you know, can devastate even a simple task. Since then, however, my memory has improved considerably.

Low motivation - My motivation to complete tasks is now incredible since my treatment. Coupled with patience and attention span, i find myself willing to complete a task with patience and determination no matter how long it takes.


Thus, as you can see, it seems that 5-HTP has been my "miracle cure" you might say. It has certainly alleviated most if not all of my POIS symptoms, and I find myself able to enjoy "O" without the knowledge that I will soon be festooned with symptoms.

I apologise for the long-winded nature of this post, however it might be worth trying 5-HTP as your POIS cure. It has certainly proved to be a wonder-cure. And best of all, it is a natural supplement, so there are minimal side effects.

Thank you

Ambient
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 06:41:53 by demografx »
 

Offline Paulrx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5745 on: 08/10/2009 10:06:29 »
Yes, demografx, I'm in the biochemistry field. I believe your friend is a biochemist, not a biophysicist. All the drugs I mentioned, except probably cabergoline newly found side effects, have been used extensively for decades and have very safe profile. But again, it's not about taking these drugs daily but around the orgasm time to totally block the POIS cascade. But we don't care at all about these side effects in general here because the use of these drugs is intended to be occasional.

An fMRI would be definitely very interesting because it might reveal very specific neural patterns that would corroborate the prolactin triggered cascade hypothesis. However, undergoing such an experiment is not that easy.

I do not want to sound rude, but I do not think that POIS sufferers here will get much if any result with experimenting with vitamins, and other over-the-counter supplements. POIS is obviously a major neuro-endocrine anomaly. It is not something one can easily fix with herbs and potions.

Attempting to measure prolactin level prior, during and after the orgasm in a POIS sufferer is probably useless. The spike is not necessarily more pronounced than in normal person. It just initiate a cascade when the prolactin spike is above a certain threshold.

Regarding 5-HTP, which is definitely an active substance, it could very well have a possitive overall health effect in many POIS sufferers but I doubt it could cure POIS. POIS is not due to a serotonin imbalance. What is very possible that the POIS cascade, which results in a neurotrasmitter/neuroendocrine crash, ends up with transient serotonin depletion.

However, I see a very interesting POIS treatment, but not cure: it is the side effect that accompanies 5-HTP intake. 5-HTP, as well as SSRIs drugs, kills the libido and the ability to have an orgasm. It is very likely that the weakness of the orgasm will be such that the prolactin spike will always stay below the cascade trigger threshold. Also, ejaculation would be much more spread out, due to the lowered interest in sex.
To conclude, 5-HTP would not be a cure for POIS but some kind of mild smart neurological castration.

A protocol could be a daily regimen of 5-HTP (100 to 400 mg), bromocriptine (2.5 to 5 mg) around noon, the day of the orgasm (because of the relatively short half-life). If not enough, a very small dose of Deprenyl 3 times a day could be added to the above protocol.
« Last Edit: 08/10/2009 10:15:33 by Paulrx »
 

Offline Paulrx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5746 on: 08/10/2009 10:29:10 »
demografx, I don't know why you were taking reglan (metochlopramide) daily, which is very good accompanied with acetaminophen to treat headaches with nausea by the way, but it's a secret to no one that metochlopramide increases prolactin level. Why? because it's a dopamine antagonist. Even a fist year med student would know that. And this prolactin stimulating effect has precisely been used to induce lactation in women!
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5747 on: 08/10/2009 14:43:05 »
5-HTP

Hey guys.

Apologies for having been away for so long, but i've been conducting intense research on this subject (visiting reputable websites, libraries etc).

I recently received a message from Cconfucious asking whether or not my 5-HTP treatment was still working

There is some good news and some bad news:

The good news is that it is an effective means of reducing my pois symptoms to some degree. However, taking it for long periods of time (three weeks to a month) can cause excessive tiredness and deplete dopamine levels, because 5-HTP increases serotonin levels, and the serotonin/dopamine relationship is a delicate one.

Since i began my research, i have come to the opinion that I am suffering from low testosterone levels, and have an appointment with a new doctor this afternoon to check on this.

In conclusion

I would say that 5-HTP is a beneficial relief from the symptoms of pois, but is not a long-term solution. If you do wish to take it for a longer amount of time than i have suggested, i would recommend you take it for two weeks, and then have a two week break before continuing (alternate between two weeks on and two weeks off)
 

Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5748 on: 08/10/2009 14:48:07 »
P.S

Paulrx, while it is understandable to believe that 5-HTP causes low libido, i actually found that it heightened my interest in sex, and if i took it before going to bed, i frequently had nocturnal emissions (apologies for that unpleasant fact :))

But you are right when you say that it is not the cure, only a temporary relief.

Thanks

Ambient
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5749 on: 08/10/2009 17:53:09 »
Naps definately help  Unfortunately I don't sleep well that night if I nap, so I don't nap.

Question - does anyone get a runny nose after eating?

I found out my mother and aunt do which are similar symptoms of POIS.  I'm interested in knowing if you do to.  Google research shows a runny nose after eating is common but the cause is not known, nor the solution.  Some speculate a mild allergy to all food.  Could we have an allergy to O'ing?

LJ, sorry for the late reply, but yes I do get a runny nose after eating as well.

Yeah, I just noticed I do get a runny nose after eating too.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5749 on: 08/10/2009 17:53:09 »

 

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