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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6451661 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5800 on: 15/10/2009 23:30:11 »

B_Jim, thanks for that! It seems that dopamine depletion has been one of the most consistent elements in all the POIS theories over the nearly 3 year history of this forum!
 

Offline Looking_for_answer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5801 on: 16/10/2009 07:07:20 »
hello

i think i got that problem. im just 26yo but i masturbated excessively on and off for 10 years. also have a lot of fantasies. Getting the symptoms mentionned here since about a year, now getting worse.

im a strong believer in the power of the body. i mean, give it the nutrients it needs and it will solve its problems way before you figure it out. So in my case I'm tempted to look at everything that the body needs to produce sperm, and then see if i might be lacking some of it. Since sperm is partly made of the brain fluid, it could make sense that ejaculating would induce cognitive skills loss for a few days (time to replenish to minimal level). Chinese medicine has apparently held a similar view for a very long time. Not to discredit western medecine, but i have talked to a lot of doctors with nice diplomas and zero common sense. i believe there is fundamentally nothing wrong with us and drugs are just a quick way out.

im considering starting taking zinc at 10mg/kg/day for a few months, even if it apparently gives nausea. anyone tried this or had an opinion about what other nutrients is required for sperm production?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5802 on: 16/10/2009 07:39:07 »

Looking_for_answer, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



I tend to agree with slow sperm regeneration as being one cause of POIS, but we don't have definitive empirical evidence yet. Hopefully, we will undertake some serious study of that possibility. In my case, daily testosterone provides the answer for me, yielding a 90%+ POIS cure for almost a year now. I have had POIS for well over 30 years and tried just about "everything under the sun". Some of us have had great hope and extensive experience with TCM, only to find disappointing results. You can read about our experiences (see the next post - to you - about Googling this site. We have 6,000 posts, representing hundreds of POIS sufferers.

Welcome again!

Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for nearly 3 years, which has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 400,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

« Last Edit: 16/10/2009 07:49:18 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5803 on: 16/10/2009 07:46:53 »

Looking_for_answer, this post might help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5804 on: 16/10/2009 17:02:13 »

i believe there is fundamentally nothing wrong with us and drugs are just a quick way out.


Very interesting point of view, not sure I agree.

Anyone else have a thought about that?
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5805 on: 16/10/2009 19:51:00 »

CCconfucius, if you (and Danny_Boy) wish, maybe you could speak with Peter Weiss, he's the original Czech researcher I spoke with who strongly recommended testosterone to me for POIS. He was highly recommended by a foremost sex researcher at Johns Hopkins University. If you want his email address, please PM me.

thanks for the offering i will contact after i get in pois testeorne result back from lab corp.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5806 on: 16/10/2009 19:53:17 »

i believe there is fundamentally nothing wrong with us and drugs are just a quick way out.


Very interesting point of view, not sure I agree.


Anyone else have a thought about that?

Personally i think there is something wrong with us and that thing was dormant untill excessive pleasure aggravated. Untill we can find out what is wrong we dont know if drug will be a quick fix or it will take longer.   
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5807 on: 16/10/2009 23:36:41 »
Dopamine is a good possibility to explain some symptoms (of course mental fatigue , repeted yawns when dopamine is depleted; headaches, shortness of breath, and diarrhea (activation of D-1 receptor on intestinal tract) after the supposed "dopammine rush" by orgasm).

But it is difficult to explain some symptoms like fever hours following orgasm. Medicine documents about cocaine users(extreme dopamine stimulant) talk about fever and muscles tremors. But when dopamine level is very high (overdose). Something is wrong.
 It is difficult to explain why the cognitive symptoms appear after 24 hours. Nobody can explain symptoms because there are different steps (tyrosine-dopa-dopamine-noradrenaline-adrenaline) in different body's areas.
 It's difficult to explain some digestive symptoms and inflammation symptoms (pains in knees, joint... ).
I really think immune systme is involved. There is an excellent link between dopamine,immun syst and inflammation here.
---
It seems on my case only white sugar(saccharose) have negative effect on Pois. I will try again.  Ii seems I don't have the same negative effects with other high glycemic carbohydrates as rice, bread and potatoes. Studies on rats show effect of sugar on dopamine. But nobody knows if the release of dopamine is caused by pleasure to eat sugar or if there is a specific mechanism between saccharose and dopamine. And what about other sugars ? (starch, fructose, lactose...).

You are right on the money, B_Jim - no matter how we try to come up with simple explanations for POIS, there are always counterexamples that force us to think again.

I genuinely think that we all suffer from a hormonal imbalance caused by orgasm - but I think that the exact nature of that imbalance varies from person to person. I think when this subject is one day fully researched, there will end up being 4 or 5 different categories of POIS symptoms, and establishing which we belong to will help us find appropriate treatment.
For example, POIS-A may involve people with high prolactin, POIS-B could have people with high DHT and low testosterone.
« Last Edit: 17/10/2009 01:35:31 by hurray »
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5808 on: 17/10/2009 00:38:35 »

i believe there is fundamentally nothing wrong with us and drugs are just a quick way out.


Very interesting point of view, not sure I agree.

Anyone else have a thought about that?


An example of how little we understand about illness:

Epigenetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

Not only is our DNA copied from one generation to the next, but also a subset of protein precursors that determine which DNA sequences are turned on and/or turned off.

Informative and quite awesome documentary on this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1128045835761675934#

This is a RECENT discovery in the medical timeline. I don't think that POIS can be explained away "psychologically" or as common already-understood phenomenon.

« Last Edit: 17/10/2009 15:32:12 by demografx »
 

Offline ajs

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5809 on: 17/10/2009 02:39:38 »
Don't most Asians lack the enzyme to convert alcohol into a non-toxic substance "asian flush" interesting because my hangover is very similar to pois.... also i know it sounds weird but my pois has a little to do with circulation cuz standing on my head after orgasm takes the depersonalization away...i know it sounds weird but very easy to test out so if it works for anybody else please tell me so i don't feel crazy:)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5810 on: 17/10/2009 05:31:05 »
To Ambient123

Pyropeach has horrendous Web access in China. Can you please let me know (for him and the upcoming Revised Compendium) the exact brand of 5-HTP you used?

Many thanks!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5811 on: 17/10/2009 05:35:34 »

I genuinely think that we all suffer from a hormonal imbalance caused by orgasm


Hurray, I have always thought that was a "sacred cow" of POIS as well, but how would you explain the fact that several members here have come up with normal readings hormonally?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5812 on: 17/10/2009 05:40:54 »

my hangover is very similar to pois


Me too. I stopped drinking 16 years ago.

Jet lag and exercise also cause strange body/mind reactions.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5813 on: 17/10/2009 05:44:21 »
Watson Pharmaceuticals

Continues as a positive relationship. Slight delay because my correspondence got lost in the system. Re-sent today and hopefully we will get feedback soon!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5814 on: 17/10/2009 05:52:23 »

My POIS treatment

Lately, I've been able to maintain almost 100% POIS-free episodes (increased testosterone and increased adderall). Can't really explain it (the near-100%). Maybe the treatment is catching up and is in effect a "wholesale cure"!

Today, when Day Zero symptoms started creeping up, I forced myself out into the sunshine...and it worked! (My natural tendency on Day Zero is to maximize physical/mental passivity). Simplistic? You bet! ;D
« Last Edit: 17/10/2009 05:55:58 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5815 on: 17/10/2009 11:10:53 »
Hurray, interesting post about prolactin. I tend to think there is not a unique cause to POIS but dopamine/prolactin balance is probably one.

im a strong believer in the power of the body. i mean, give it the nutrients it needs and it will solve its problems way before you figure it out. So in my case I'm tempted to look at everything that the body needs to produce sperm, and then see if i might be lacking some of it. Since sperm is partly made of the brain fluid, it could make sense that ejaculating would induce cognitive skills loss for a few days (time to replenish to minimal level). Chinese medicine has apparently held a similar view for a very long time. Not to discredit western medecine, but i have talked to a lot of doctors with nice diplomas and zero common sense. i believe there is fundamentally nothing wrong with us and drugs are just a quick way out.
im considering starting taking zinc at 10mg/kg/day for a few months, even if it apparently gives nausea. anyone tried this or had an opinion about what other nutrients is required for sperm production?
Hi. Even if this proves nothing, I start to feel a significant recovery after 3-4 days which is the normal time needed to fully resplenish sperm. It's written in old and recent medical texts (western and eastern) that losing sperm regularly, without orgasm, causes POIS for some people. I also want to believe that at least some people were able to achieve positive results with the Mantak Chia's method.

I have a zinc supplement listed in MD's drug compendium, it's written on the notice, "do not take with calcium or whole wheat bread which prevent zinc absorption (wait at least 2 hours between their intake)". Phytates in whole grain prevent zinc assimilation.
With a 10mg/kg dose you'll certainly need to add copper but according to this it's too much zinc:
Zinc is LIKELY SAFE for most adults when taken by mouth in amounts not larger than 40 mg per day. Routine zinc supplementation is not recommended without the advice of a healthcare professional. In some people, zinc might cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, metallic taste, kidney and stomach damage, and other side effects. Using zinc on broken skin may cause burning, stinging, itching, and tingling.
Taking high amounts of zinc is LIKELY UNSAFE. High doses above the recommended amounts might cause fever, coughing, stomach pain, fatigue, and many other problems
Click "side effects" in this page: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-982-ZINC.aspx?activeIngredientId=982&activeIngredientName=ZINC&source=2#vit_sideeffects
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5816 on: 17/10/2009 12:09:28 »
B_Jim, Hurray, Demo,

I buy the idea that at least one form of POIS is caused hormonally.

Here is what could be going on. Simplistically: too much adrenaline is produced and has difficulty converting back to dopamine. Dopamine runs low, producing symptoms, and the excess adrenaline produces symptoms.

Demo has improved from taking T which could be restoring his proper dopamine level. And some people have reported that exercise helps recovery, could this be burning off excess adrenaline?

L-Tyrosine
I had tried one tab of it previously and it made me feel kinda weird. Currently I am at the tail end of my current form of POIS and I was suffering from the "burnout" that I described. I took a wee bit the night before last and it may have helped me, or I may just have finally recovered. I took a full tab last night (500mg) and it I think it definitely had an effect as I had some serious brain zaps interupting my sleep. (This is one continuing symptom that I have on occasion after I stopped taking Paxil years ago, which is why I am anti-SSRIs.) I think the next time I am in that POIS state I will try tyrosine earlier on.

Demo,
Have you ever tried taking tyrosine?
« Last Edit: 17/10/2009 13:39:39 by John21 »
 

Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5817 on: 17/10/2009 20:43:52 »
Don't most Asians lack the enzyme to convert alcohol into a non-toxic substance "asian flush" interesting because my hangover is very similar to pois.... also i know it sounds weird but my pois has a little to do with circulation cuz standing on my head after orgasm takes the depersonalization away...i know it sounds weird but very easy to test out so if it works for anybody else please tell me so i don't feel crazy:)

i feel that some of the cognitive impairment is due to in part by lack of oxygen to the brain.  by standing on your head, it is possible that hyrostaic pressure created by gravity from the blood in the lower half of your body is pushing more blood>csf through blood brain barrier into ventricles.  the only possibilities for the cognitive dysfunction that we have is low "dopamine,low brain oxygen, or inflamation of brain".  most likely there is some combo going on; one is the cause of the other.
 

Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5818 on: 17/10/2009 21:26:24 »

My POIS treatment

Lately, I've been able to maintain almost 100% POIS-free episodes (increased testosterone and increased adderall). Can't really explain it (the near-100%). Maybe the treatment is catching up and is in effect a "wholesale cure"!

Today, when Day Zero symptoms started creeping up, I forced myself out into the sunshine...and it worked! (My natural tendency on Day Zero is to maximize physical/mental passivity). Simplistic? You bet! ;D

demo, be carefull with to much aderal and T.  the combo of amphetamines and testosterone in males with seemling cure anything. i saw a show on Alqueda and other terroist fighters.  they would shout up a combo of amphetamines and testosterone before going out to fight, the end result was that they could be shot multiple times and continue fighting, and then out run pursueing U.S forces.  i myself have been prescribed aderal in the past for adrenal fatigue, i thought it was a miricle cure untill i had to continually raise my dosage to get the same effect.  eventually the negative effects of prolonged use (in my case) outweighed the little positive effects that continued to diminish.  i only share this out of deep concerns for forum members who are considering using narcotics CII Aderal. "when i didnt take aderal, i had pois times 10".   
 

Offline ajs

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5819 on: 18/10/2009 00:01:35 »
my pois started about a year after taking adderal....it was great at first but the more i was on it my pois got worse...i always wondered if it caused heart problems which caused my circulation problems but then again it could of been helping circulation problems that i already had! It can drive u crazy trying to figure this out. If u guys don't figure it out it will turn into an everyday hell like me with pois symptoms everyday without orgasm now..it seems like the women that have pois progress much faster into chronic fatigue syndrome
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5820 on: 18/10/2009 01:14:20 »
ajs, check this out,  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122214242AAPK1SN   , "realeasing a lot of dopamine, epinephrine and serotonin into the system... the body keeps them in reserve".  I think me and your POIS are sort of similar, mine instead of aderall, it was caused by coffee... Maybe we just lack normal amounts in our system?  It takes a lot of time to replace,too.  Maybe explaining why I couldn't wake up after 12 hours of sleep without getting a headache, if I woke up before 12 p.m. the next day I would always get headaches.  Maybe insufficient amounts?
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5821 on: 18/10/2009 04:03:43 »

I genuinely think that we all suffer from a hormonal imbalance caused by orgasm


Hurray, I have always thought that was a "sacred cow" of POIS as well, but how would you explain the fact that several members here have come up with normal readings hormonally?

I guess I would argue that hormone tests don't always give the full picture - a quick count of wikipedias list of human hormones revealed roughly 65-70 different ones - only the most determined and/or wealthy patient could do regular tests on all of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_hormones

I am willing to believe POIS can be caused by an autoimmune reaction to orgasm, but this too ought to produce a measurable change in hormone levels before and after orgasm.
« Last Edit: 18/10/2009 04:20:31 by hurray »
 

Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5822 on: 18/10/2009 04:19:18 »
B_Jim, Hurray, Demo,

I buy the idea that at least one form of POIS is caused hormonally.

Here is what could be going on. Simplistically: too much adrenaline is produced and has difficulty converting back to dopamine. Dopamine runs low, producing symptoms, and the excess adrenaline produces symptoms.

Demo,
Have you ever tried taking tyrosine?

I would not be at all surprised if adrenaline/epinephrine played a major role in triggering POIS symptoms - certainly it would be one of the hormones worth measuring before/after orgasm.

I have tried Tyrosine supplementation pretty comprehensively, along with a few other dopaminergics - unfortunately, in my particular case, they did little to prevent or alleviate POIS symptoms, although they were very stimulating out of POIS.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5823 on: 18/10/2009 07:38:33 »



Demo,

Have you ever tried taking tyrosine?


No, John, never tried it.
« Last Edit: 18/10/2009 07:41:15 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5824 on: 18/10/2009 08:05:40 »
Laurac, many thanks for your concern about my Adderall and testosterone (and I'm back on caffeine/sugar as well!).

Many years ago, I kicked an amphetamine habit, so I fought the docs on Adderall hard at first.

I've been on Adderall successfully now for over 3 years, with a drastic reduction in dosage. Tolerance does not develop when taken properly. But it has taken me decades to get it right! I failed many times because I'm prone to habitual behavior.

The testosterone affects me less as a stimulant but more as a quicker sperm-regeneration/sexual system/libido restoration mechanism - at least that's my hypothesis.

I think that testosterone augmentation - even at normal levels - can help POIS, for the reasons above. I think it pushed me to nearly 100% POIS-free when I increased T even though I reached "normal", and DECREASED Adderall.
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5824 on: 18/10/2009 08:05:40 »

 

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