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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6426223 times)

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5950 on: 03/11/2009 20:52:49 »
Someone? How about you?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5951 on: 03/11/2009 21:04:28 »

H1N1 vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. It was in the anthrax vaccine.

Scary if true!

Can anyone refute that?

I'm staying away. My wife disagrees, thinks the benefit outweighs the risks.

I'm fairly certain that my last flu shot a few years ago made me sick. My GP says it couldn't have. I'm ready to fire yet another GP!
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 02:55:31 by demografx »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5952 on: 03/11/2009 21:09:58 »
I found more evidence for the immune systmem being cause or at least possible part.
In the article it talks about how it cause cognition problems and fatigue and so on. But the interesting part is that Il-1 increases ACTH and excess release of cortisol is suppose to stop the inflammation response.  But when i did my endocrine test my acth was slightly elevated but cortisol was normal. And I think martinn 88 said his acth was elevated to.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/5/683
under endocrine effect. long article

Am going to be doing inflammatory test through integrative psychiatry do you guys know if they are trustworthy. i try google search but nothing came up. 

does any body know why lef.org inflammation test is two times that of integrative psychiatry
« Last Edit: 03/11/2009 21:48:37 by CCconfucius »
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5953 on: 03/11/2009 21:16:13 »

H1N1vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. Scary if true! Can anyone refute that?

I'm staying away. My wife disagrees, thinks the benefit outweighs the risks.

I'm fairly certain that my last flu shot a few years ago made me sick. My GP says it couldn't have. I'm ready to fire yet another GP!
[/quote\
even squalence is can cause gulfwar syndrome i dont think there is enough in it to match what solders experience in gulf war.
 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5954 on: 03/11/2009 22:07:11 »
am on a roll here guys
 i have been trying to connect that two day high/hyperness/fantastic mental state/tremendous energy to  immune system  and i have found. 
Catecholamines are known to reduce inflammation response and reduce cytokines in body. It is a well known effect in the body.
Catecholamines in excess in body are known to create that "high" effect, could these be how our body returns to normal on the seventh day.

what do you guys think.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120778223/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1666138/?page=1
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u16j1143vh3x765v/fulltext.pdf
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5955 on: 03/11/2009 22:51:51 »
am on a roll here guys
 i have been trying to connect that two day high/hyperness/fantastic mental state/tremendous energy to  immune system  and i have found. 
Catecholamines are known to reduce inflammation response and reduce cytokines in body. It is a well known effect in the body.
Catecholamines in excess in body are known to create that "high" effect, could these be how our body returns to normal on the seventh day.

what do you guys think.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120778223/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1666138/?page=1
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u16j1143vh3x765v/fulltext.pdf


first and last link are not accessible (?) to me

ill see yer article, and raise you this one:

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/983519.dtl

that says some things like:
"Testosterone treatment reduced the severity of EAE in females with a concomitant increase in TH2 cytokines."

Lets say it is an autoimmune reaction, like MS. There are MANY different types of cytokines that can be good/bad. We'd have to figure out which ones are the cause of POIS for specific targeted treatment. However it looks like testosterone may be a good treatment overall for reducing many of the inflammatory occurrences from these cytokines.

I still have yet to get over to the medical university library. Im itching to wait till I heave health insurance so I can try stuff out if i find anything useful. I definitely am going to get my doctor to prescribe me some Testosterone to see if it works, as some are saying it may.
 

Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5956 on: 03/11/2009 23:26:33 »
Demo,

Quote
H1N1vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. Scary if true! Can anyone refute that?

Yes.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5957 on: 04/11/2009 03:01:32 »

Even if squalene can cause gulfwar syndrome i dont think there is enough in it to match what solders experience in gulf war.


Some people say H1N1 has more than Gulf War.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5958 on: 04/11/2009 03:15:15 »
John, thank you, I was glad to read that article, I have low regard for the doctor propagating that theory. However, I didn't notice his name in the several that I googled.

I say "glad" because I don't want that theory to be true, thinking about the future of millions of children!

There's a 10 minute video at the CBS and CNN sites, kind of negative, I think. And my wife has seen solid presentations from both sides, and concludes positively.

This all makes me reach for my trusty quarter, flip it in the air and decide on heads or tails decision!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5959 on: 04/11/2009 03:23:18 »

How do you evaluate a debate in which both sides seem to have impressive world-class medical backgrounds?
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5960 on: 04/11/2009 03:56:34 »
Thanks CC for these good posts on immune system. Difficult to say which one come first: problem with immune system or low catecholamines.

About testosterone I'm wondering why the patches were working for you Demo, and not the T shots. I heard that Andriol (oral T pills) is safe for the liver (bypass the liver) and is absorbed through the lymphatic system. Is it possible that the same is happening with patches ? (less strong on liver))
 
An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).

I really think we have a problem with androgen receptors in the brain after orgasm:
The androgen receptor density in brain areas closely related to the expression of masculine sexual behavior, such as the medial preoptic nucleus, was drastically reduced in sexually exhausted animals. Such reduction was specific to certain brain areas and was not related to changes in the levels of androgens. These results suggest that changes in brain androgen receptors account for the inhibition of sexual behavior present during sexual exhaustion.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118874269/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

(I also read in other study that estrogen receptors are increased after sex, this too can be involved in sexual satiation).

Now, how to boost androgen receptors: someone here a long time ago told us to try carnitine for that..
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 03:59:47 by martin88 »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5961 on: 04/11/2009 04:07:02 »
Drugs to help with androgen receptors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_modulator

Therapy for andropause with SARM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMS-564,929
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5962 on: 04/11/2009 05:04:07 »

About testosterone I'm wondering why the patches were working for you Demo, and not the T shots. I heard that Andriol (oral T pills) is safe for the liver (bypass the liver) and is absorbed through the lymphatic system. Is it possible that the same is happening with patches ? (less strong on liver))
 
An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).


According to my endo, patches (and gel) deliver T "in a more regular manner" as you say, mimicking the steady, smooth 24/7 delivery of natural testosterone. Injections, he says, cause erratic, violent "spikes" in the system. The high and low nature of injections make it much less effective. That has now proven true for me in treating POIS.

My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers. I have 7 years of on-off experience with T. 2 years ago when I thought I had a 75% POIS cure with Levitra, it might have come from the T-injections.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5963 on: 04/11/2009 05:37:28 »


Now, how to boost androgen receptors: someone here a long time ago told us to try carnitine for that..


Google search result for carnitine/POIS Forum:
http://www.google.com/search?q=carnitine+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5964 on: 04/11/2009 13:32:44 »
My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers.
I'm not against your theory, low T or low AR will produce the same result which is POIS.
I think androgen receptors are important because the depletion after sex has been scientifically measured like for prolactin.
This bring the fact that even if some research is conducted and we find something, there is still the difficult part to find a cure by going through drugs trials.
I can eventually consider to try T just to see if it works. I was about to do it years ago, but it has been difficult to convince my doc, and probably if you have to convince him, maybe he's not experienced enough with T.. After that, I think I came accross this forum when you were saying "only the first shot was effective, subsequent were placebo." and I gave up.
One thing is sure I'm reticent to take T for the next 50 years.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 13:55:13 by martin88 »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5965 on: 04/11/2009 13:38:40 »
CC your 3 links are not accessible (2nd temporary unavailable), maybe you can copy this info here.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 14:03:41 by martin88 »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5966 on: 04/11/2009 14:20:36 »
Tissot (18th century) was a doctor who wrote a whole book only about the bad consequences of onanism. I didn't read his book and don't know where to find it, but I heard he said that quinquina is the best remedy to fight POIS. I'm not sure if it's by killing sexual desire or by stimulating it.
Quinquina is indicated for fever and influenza:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vulgaris-medical.com%2Fphytotherapie%2Fencyclopedie-phyto%2Fquinquina-117.html&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=

I think it's linked with hydration of the body. If someone can know on which part of the body this remedy is acting maybe we'll know more on POIS. 
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 14:23:38 by martin88 »
 

Offline pauliebaby61

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5967 on: 04/11/2009 15:35:40 »
"My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers"

Im happy if some are getting positive results with more T.
I did not see any improvement with high does of injectable T, 2x a week.
Has anyone had any relief taking a histamine blocker?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5968 on: 04/11/2009 16:32:47 »

you were saying "only the first [testosterone] shot was effective, subsequent were placebo." and I gave up.

One thing is sure I'm reticent to take T for the next 50 years.



I did not see any improvement with high doses of injectable T, 2x a week.


Yes, I'm now convinced that shots/injections are erratic, but that testosterone patches or gel can be very effective against POIS. And I suspect that testosterone may be effective for many POIS sufferers, regardless of how they test initially. This remains to be proven, however, under careful physician supervision.

Martin, why the huge reticence? ("50 years")
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 17:28:47 by demografx »
 

Offline pauliebaby61

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5969 on: 04/11/2009 23:30:29 »
Before doing T shots, I did 3 forms of topical testosterone.
I did Androgel patches, which did nothing but burn my skin severely.
I did a compounded cream, with no results.
I did Testim, which did nothing but made me very nauseous.
None of the topicals raised my T level of any significance.
The T shots, 2x a week have been the most helpful by far, raising my T level from 105 to 896, and increased my libido.
It has done nothing for the POIS however.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5970 on: 05/11/2009 04:08:42 »
Demo, my hesitation come from possible side effects and it's not usual for me to take drugs since a very long time. I agree the theory of androgen receptors doesn't fit (I can't find a connection) with your positive experience with T therapy.

Before doing T shots, I did 3 forms of topical testosterone.
I did Androgel patches, which did nothing but burn my skin severely.
I did a compounded cream, with no results.
I did Testim, which did nothing but made me very nauseous.
None of the topicals raised my T level of any significance.
The T shots, 2x a week have been the most helpful by far, raising my T level from 105 to 896, and increased my libido.
It has done nothing for the POIS however.
For me low libido is highly linked with POIS.. Maybe Demo's stuff is the right one :)
 

Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5971 on: 05/11/2009 13:26:13 »
There have been a few posts of late revolving around Testosterone. Like Pauliebaby I was also disappointed with T at higher than normal dosages. I am still on T now. I actually prefer the injectable form and take lower dose but more frequently. Demo's theory regarding higher dose T being more beneficial for pois also carries some weight with me.

I have heard of someone who suffered badly from sexual dysfunction after taking hair lose drug Proscar who managed to restore their health by 'upping; the dose of testosterone. Proscar is designed to block DHT. There are a number of men who suffer from major loss of libido, ED, diminished orgasm brain fog, poor memory, anxiety, apathy, emotional bluntness, etc after taking Proscar. A few others have restored their health somewhat by taking drugs like HCG and Clomid to help kick start their gonads or GHB which helps improve sleep + growth hormone. While their symptoms are not the same as pois there is some crossover. Like pois sufferers these guys have websites where they throw around different theories and also consistently how doctors tell them their symptoms are just in their mind.

From my personal experience, I definitely experienced a phase of better health and reduced pois when I had high T readings. Here is the kicker though...I was not on Testosterone at the time. Being disappointed in T (plus also never registering decent blood readings) I wanted to try an anabolic as opposed to an androgenic steroid (not unlike Martin88's recent post on SARMs). I was on Nandrolone at 1/2 the amount of Test that I had previously been on but my T results were the highest ever, which does not make sense. Nandrolone increases blood cell production + increased protein synthesis. It also does not aromatise. On the downside after while it was impossible to get an erection, though some here might think thatís not such a bad thing. There is very little chance though that you are going to be able to talk your doctor into scripting you an anabolic especially when they donít even take pois seriously. From my perspective, Demografx is so lucky to be getting so much relief from pois + also a boosted libido to boot.

Pauliebaby
maybe it might pay for you to read up on a supplement called DIM (Diindolymethane). I did not think I was suffering from excess estrogens but I have started to trial this. I feel somewhat better but nothing dramatic, but I am on lower dose of T for the moment.

Also your post on anti-histimes, these where discussed a bit back a month or so ago, after someone posted a really interesting post on a condition that involved excess histamine. I have taken anti-histimes on and off over the years and never felt better on them. Old versions used to just make me more drowsey and when you already have CFS that side effect was terrible. These days though I take zrytec when I need to. I have better concentration + more energy when I take it but that dramtic effect really only occurs on hay fever days.

 

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5972 on: 05/11/2009 19:50:14 »
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5973 on: 06/11/2009 08:26:45 »

CC, would you please advise, regarding POIS, what your post directly above is meant to convey, or which previous post you're trying to address or add to? Thank you.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2009 08:33:08 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5974 on: 06/11/2009 15:53:02 »
Tribulus has come up again, so here's an old post, new reply

Quote

I'm now trying Tribulus Terrestris - its basically like swallowing testosterone.  TT, short for Tribulus Terrestris, stimulates LH that stimulates testosterone.


About Tribulus, from wikipedia:

"The extract is claimed to increase the body's natural testosterone levels and thereby improve male sexual performance and help build muscle. T. terrestris has consistently failed to increase testosterone levels in controlled studies.[6][7][8] It has also failed to demonstrate strength-enhancing properties.[9] However, many supplement brands have sold products that combine various herbs with T. terrestris, with debatable effects."
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5974 on: 06/11/2009 15:53:02 »

 

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