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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6426995 times)

Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5975 on: 06/11/2009 17:38:52 »
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this post is to the response that my links do not work, i hope this ones works. And instead of posting the main article i posted the abstract.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5976 on: 07/11/2009 02:19:19 »

this post [below] is to the response that my links do not work, i hope this ones works. And instead of posting the main article i posted the abstract.



http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.




Thanks, CC!
« Last Edit: 07/11/2009 02:47:28 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5977 on: 07/11/2009 02:43:40 »

An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).


This makes sense to me.

Regarding injectables, my endo says he doesn't know for sure why 2x a week of high dose wouldn't be effective, but he wonders if the injections are done right, if a real depotestosterone is being used, or if there is no element of hypogonadism (testosterone insufficiency).

 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5978 on: 07/11/2009 03:51:02 »
Thanks CC (still can't access the first link because I'm not logged in their site, but ok for others)
I was thinking about your experience concerning weight gain and POIS, personally I'm rather thin but maybe simply the stress caused by POIS could be the cause if you're predisposed.
http://stress.about.com/od/stresshealth/a/weightgain.htm

It seems everything is linked (catecholamines - stress-  T - immune system - glycemia.) I'm not sure to understand everything about the immune system link with POIS, except catecholamines and flu like symptoms and maybe zinc.. I have to read more on it. I probably missed a couple of posts explaining this.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5979 on: 07/11/2009 04:14:51 »
Glucose is absolutely necessary for the brain. I suppose glycemia will always be maintained at the expense of other systems. After reading this below I'm wondering if testosterone + glucose can help the brain to work better.

Testosterone Decreases After Ingestion Of Sugar (Glucose)
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/153837.php
The authors found that the glucose solution decreased blood levels of testosterone by as much as 25 percent, regardless of whether the men had diabetes, prediabetes or normal glucose tolerance.

Two hours after glucose administration, the testosterone level remained much lower than before the test in 73 of the 74 men, a statistically significant difference, the authors reported. Of the 66 men who had normal testosterone levels before the test, 10 (15 percent) became hypogonadal at one or more time points during the test.


When sexually abstinent I always noticed that more carbs/low protein help me to lower libido. Also, specially when I have a lot of energy from sexual abstinence, I won't go very far in a long effort with a meal without carbs (low GI)
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5980 on: 07/11/2009 05:37:48 »


From my perspective, Demografx is so lucky to be getting so much relief from pois + also a boosted libido to boot.


I feel extremely fortunate. After 30+ years of POIS, I thought it was impossible for life to be any different. 
 

Offline utur

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5981 on: 07/11/2009 10:52:19 »
Hello

I have been following this forum for some time.
Found this:
Orgasm’s Hidden Cycle
newbielink:http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/200908/orgasm-s-hidden-cycle [nonactive]
Perhaps you'll find it interesting.
 

Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5982 on: 07/11/2009 20:14:18 »
This really reminds me of POIS in every way.  Except we POIS suffers experience extreme recovery symptoms compared to other normal people.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5983 on: 07/11/2009 21:01:03 »

Hello

I have been following this forum for some time.
Found this:
Orgasm’s Hidden Cycle
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/200908/orgasm-s-hidden-cycle

Perhaps you'll find it interesting.


Thanks, the author is a member and friend of this forum!
 

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5984 on: 08/11/2009 18:47:33 »
Here's a little humorous insight into POIS:
http://www.watchxonline.com/media/2838-malcolm-in-the-middle-406-forbidden-girlfriend.php

What happens between Lois and Hal...
 

Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5985 on: 09/11/2009 13:18:15 »
Just a quick update, I am currently being investigated for IBS-like syndrome. It was found during the investigation that I have way too much tension in the perineum area.
I also myself observed that I tend to have inflammatory cystitis during POIS-like fits/periods
I dont know if this is relevant or not...
 

Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5986 on: 09/11/2009 16:27:49 »
For the dopamine/prolactin issue, I read that it can take up to 2 years to restore proper dopamine levels in the brain after "dopamine addiction"  and maybe after every orgasm dopamine drops to below normal levels leaving us with very little of it.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5987 on: 09/11/2009 17:51:59 »
Just a quick update, I am currently being investigated for IBS-like syndrome. It was found during the investigation that I have way too much tension in the perineum area.
I also myself observed that I tend to have inflammatory cystitis during POIS-like fits/periods
I dont know if this is relevant or not...

I'm very skeptical of "IBS" diagnosis, even though I "have it".

I think "IBS" is a physician reaction when they have NO CLUE as to what's wrong with us! (I've gone through multiple GI physicians, upper and lower GI's, colonoscopies, and nausea labs bloodwork - 10+ years' worth).

Just my opinion.

My main "IBS" symptom is nausea. Immediately at the start of POIS, the nausea is worse. I see that as analogous to your inflammatory cystitis situation.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2009 18:08:55 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5988 on: 09/11/2009 18:06:41 »

For the dopamine/prolactin issue, I read that it can take up to 2 years to restore proper dopamine levels in the brain after "dopamine addiction"  and maybe after every orgasm dopamine drops to below normal levels leaving us with very little of it.


if you can recall where you read this, please post a link.
 

Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5989 on: 09/11/2009 22:23:08 »
Wow!  254 pages of messages for POIS topic and 456846 Views! I do feel very late to the party indeed. But I am very happy the thread is still going on and hopefully I will be able to add a contribution as well. I too am glad I found you!

I read more or less 30 pages before jumping in. My story, like everybody else it seems, is very similar and yet is somewhat different with its own particularity.

The days following ejaculation and orgasm, I feel totally exhausted and depleted.  I my case it only starts on the second day (if I have an orgasm on Monday, I will be feeling good on Tuesday and then I will start feeling poorly on Wednesday). That feeling does last for about 5 to 8 days at this point. This is no ordinary tiredness - I don't feel physically very tired (I could do physical work or climb a moutain even), it is more that I feel emotionally drained (down and depressed, anxious and very irritable too) and especially mentally depleted (confusion, lack of focus, short attention span, brain fog, cannot find my words (especially names), forgetting my thoughts in the middle of a sentence, with terrible nightmares too (anyone else for the nightmares?). Physically I do experience some night sweats, a dry mouth, a decrease in the quality of my eyesight together with many eye floaters, and weaker digestion too. Sometimes an eye twitch as well and itching scalp.

It seems to me that my body/mind interpret an orgasm as a huge stress and then I suffer from post-traumatic stress. I know it sounds ridiculous to most people but probably not to this group. This problem started years ago after a period of unbelievable stress. Previous to this period, I only experienced these post-orgasm symptoms very faintly only if I had "excessive sex".  But nowadays "excessive" just means making love once in a while! I am a 57 years old happily married man. I feel very comfortable with intimacy and sexuality in general.
My libido is normal, I have no erectile dysfunction, and orgasm is very pleasurable. Actually It seems the more enjoyable and strong the orgasm is, the more difficult POIS is afterwards.

I eat well (no junk food whasoever, no sugar either which makes my problem worse), I exercise and meditate regularly. Aerobic exercises 3 to 5 times a week seems to help more than lifting weight or streching although it all helps. I had psychotherapy too which has been helpful – but mostly at accepting my situation and “cleaning up” old stressful events.  My life at this point is not very stressful, it is a good life actually. But I would like to recapture the ability to enjoy it more!

In my case it seems to be directly related to my reaction to stress in general. If a stressful event happens I do have the same symptoms but more lightly. First I get excited and then I crash.  If I drink coffee, tea or eat chocolate or sugar or alcool I also have the same symptoms after the initial high. My ability to deal with stress in general is not working properly. All my responses are exagerated.

I’ll stop here for now as a way to say hello - but I have much more to say.

Pablo
 

Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5990 on: 09/11/2009 22:41:23 »
In my case it seems to be directly related to my reaction to stress in general. If a stressful event happens I do have the same symptoms but more lightly. First I get excited and then I crash.  If I drink coffee, tea or eat chocolate or sugar or alcool I also have the same symptoms after the initial high. My ability to deal with stress in general is not working properly. All my responses are exagerated.

Do you suffer from migraines? Panic attacks?
Also, have you tried benzos, SSRIs, SNRIs and such psychoactive drugs?
 

Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5991 on: 09/11/2009 22:50:03 »
Do you suffer from migraines? Panic attacks?
Also, have you tried benzos, SSRIs, SNRIs and such psychoactive drugs?

Hello mister_z
No migraines ever.
No more panic attacks since I started meditation in 2001 (after 2 months of practise)

I have tried several medications but I had more negative reactions than positive ones. So now I am not taking any medications at all. I am trying to find gradual natural non-toxic solutions instead. Has any of the above drugs been helpful to you?
 

Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5992 on: 09/11/2009 23:10:42 »
I have tried several medications but I had more negative reactions than positive ones. So now I am not taking any medications at all. I am trying to find gradual natural non-toxic solutions instead. Has any of the above drugs been helpful to you?
Not really, though I haven't tried SNRIs yet.
I have tried theanine, 5HTP and such, didn't do much for me.
Perhaps tyrosine helps a bit if taken right after orgasm, however, I need to confirm this.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5993 on: 09/11/2009 23:12:23 »

Pablo445, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for nearly 3 years, which has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 400,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 02:33:30 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5994 on: 09/11/2009 23:17:53 »


Pablo445, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.
 

Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5995 on: 10/11/2009 01:27:45 »
im kinda bothered by the fact SOOO much research has been done on POIS and posted about in this forum, and yet no university or research group has taken up the cause. is this forum not moderated by Cambridge people? im sure there are a lot of other pressing issues, but seriously folks you read about research done on such obscure and hardly-ever-heard-of ailments that affect oh 1 in 100,000,000 people yet POIS still hasnt been looked at, and could possible affect a huge amount of people worldwide?

this forum has been up for 2 years, and seriously, go find me another forum somewhere where SO many people have tried SO many things to find a cure for a rare condition, with so much research done and so many things tried... i just dont get it. i dont want to turn 50 (im turning 33 very soon) with still no major medical or scientific groups having looked into POIS...

how do you guys deal with it? have any of you spawned some artistic venting? used anger from lack-of-a-cure to motivate you to do some greater things?

or flip the coin have any of you been so devastated by this that you've done self-destructive things? messed up your life in some way from the sheer frustration?

artists create art from the pain of cancer, war, abuse, politics, OLD AGE, etc... maybe we need to write a freakin song or do a painting.....
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5996 on: 10/11/2009 02:46:08 »

im kinda bothered by the fact SOOO much research has been done on POIS and posted about in this forum, and yet no university or research group has taken up the cause. is this forum not moderated by Cambridge people? im sure there are a lot of other pressing issues, but seriously folks you read about research done on such obscure and hardly-ever-heard-of ailments that affect oh 1 in 100,000,000 people yet POIS still hasnt been looked at, and could possible affect a huge amount of people worldwide?


We're just about 3 months' shy of 3 years existence.

We've approached a few major universities, including Cambridge, and other groups/individuals, but I'm surprised to see you write that researching rare disorders is the norm. It's the exception. To recoup the investment in research, big numbers are needed. Cancer, AIDS, MS, etc.

We also have an impediment in that our disorder is about...sex. Some people would go so far as to say that this is "frivolous"...or a moral issue. True, we're out of the Victorian era, but hardly 100& enlightened. And all too often, the medical community perceives that this is "all in our heads".

That's why NORD is around. They're happy to help us - and just about any rare disorder - IF we can raise $35,000.

For rare disorders, the only sure route seems to be self-funded research. And a GROUP with a burning commitment. Sadly, I'm not sure we have that kind of group commitment here. I hope I'm wrong. I'll try again, right here: are there any volunteers to build our outreach database? (universities, researchers, etc. - Martin has built and posted an email database form) Can anyone expand on my suggestion for the very next step with a researcher or research lab? (mine was fMRI). Any volunteers to send letters out which we've already prepared? So far, there's been very little response.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 03:20:35 by demografx »
 

Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5997 on: 10/11/2009 02:46:29 »
Here is a little observation about unexplained improvement with POIS symptoms in one very specific instance. My wife and I enjoy going to Mexico for vacation. We usually go for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I have noticed (with much joy) that often during these vacations (but not all the time – maybe 50% of the time) my POIS symptoms decrease to the point where we can have great sex twice a week with me feeling a little spaced out but certainly not exhausted like I do if we have sex at home even once a month. The question I have been trying to answer is why? If I had the answer I could try to replicate it at home.

Here are some ideas:
1. Because there is virtually no stress? It probably is part of the answer but if we go vacationing to a ski resort in Northern Canada that “decreasing of symptoms” does not  happen even if we are on a vacation without stress (unless cold wheather is considered a stress by itself).

2. Because we are very active physically? We walk, swim, snorkel, kayak, so yes we are more active than we are at home and it certainly helps but again if I am very active in Canada (where we live) I still crash after an orgasm. Note: exercise definitely helps even in Canada but a not nearly as much. At home I find that exercise PLUS sex avoidance gets me in good shape.

3. The salt? We swim in the ocean, the air is salty and filled with not only salt but also lots of trace elements from the sea. How would this help? I did experiment with sea salt at home but did not achieve anything worth mentioning. Plus even if we go inland where there is no ocean, I still feel better.

4. The different food? I eat more fish, more protein in general, more hot food, more garlic and cilantro, more limes and also more fruits in general. I even drink some alcohol in Mexico and it does not seem to bother me. I tried eating more of these foods at home but it does not work. Am I then allergic to something I eat at home? I looked into this and I know I react to all lentils and soy food (which I totally avoid now) but I do not feel any particular reaction to any other food. Except for coffee, tea, chocolate which I never consume whether I am in Mexico or at home. These products stimulate me and then I crash like I do after an orgasm but not quite as heavily.

5. The light? We always rent little “casitas” often with limited electricity and we go to sleep early to get up with the sun in the morning. We don’t do that at home. We get a lot more light when we spend time in Mexico. We eat and live outside all the time. Light has been known to modulate and regulate hormones . See for example Light therapy: Why it's done - MayoClinic.com http://bit.ly/2wLr1r or Light Therapy for depression http://bit.ly/4nDyJ8   

So why do I feel better in Mexico?   Maybe a combination of stress free life by the ocean, with plenty of sunshine and exercises together with great food?  :-)  Now I need to find a doctor who will prescribe this novel therapy…  But seriously the good news is that if I feel better during thses short periods it means I *can* feel better. The key may be somewhere in the Caribean.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5998 on: 10/11/2009 02:54:16 »

I'll stop here for now as a way to say hello - but I have much more to say.


And we're looking forward to hearing it!!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5999 on: 10/11/2009 03:01:20 »

So why do I feel better in Mexico?   Maybe a combination of stress free life by the ocean, with plenty of sunshine and exercises together with great food?  :-)  Now I need to find a doctor who will prescribe this novel therapy…  But seriously the good news is that if I feel better during thses short periods it means I *can* feel better. The key may be somewhere in the Caribean.


I feel more hopeful about POIS just LOOKING at this picture. We have joked often about having an Annual POIS Retreat here:

         
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 04:05:50 by demografx »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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