The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6441500 times)

Offline Bizzy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #650 on: 07/06/2008 11:24:43 »
I also don't think POIS has any connection to chronic fatigue syndrome.

Its not possible for you to say that because you simply dont know. There might be a connection with an underlying mechanism for both POIS and CFS.
 

Offline girlwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #651 on: 07/06/2008 21:35:58 »
"The low activity of adrenal glands is for me the best theory."

This makes total sense to me, based on my very long experience with both CFS and POIS.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #652 on: 08/06/2008 00:24:13 »
SMALL adrenal gland: years ago, my Oriental massage/accupuncturist was convinced that was my POIS cause.

CFS and POIS: My psychiatrist a couple years back thought my POIS could actually be CFS.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2008 00:37:12 by demografx »
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #653 on: 08/06/2008 00:42:05 »
I just want to make a summary of our solutions :

-Demografx : 75% healed with Levitra.

- Agjchs : healed with only 10mg of DHEA after orgasm.

-Dave23 : healed with
Testosterone
Dostinex (inhibitor prolactin). 500 to 1000mg 4 days a week
Aromasin (blocking aromatase enzyme => aromasin decrease estrogens)
5Htp (serotonin precursor)
Relora (cortisol inhibitor, supposed to increase DHEA), phytotherapy supplement
GABA (neurotransmitter)
Powerfull (musculation supplement) , supposed to increase Growth hormon.
Reset AD (musculation supplement), supposed to heal adrenal fatigue
DIM (di-indole methane) phytotherapy supplement, supposed to balance estrogens
 


B_Jim, thank you for summarizing the concrete "cures" we have found. If I weren't involved in the POIS Forum, I might have not connected the Levitra with POIS, I might have just thought the symptom abatement was just a "fluke".
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #654 on: 08/06/2008 00:52:01 »
The number of POIS-cure ideas and detail floating around here is staggering. I can't wait to get some help from the outside (like the endocrinologist) otherwise I'll surely develop COIS! (Curative Overload Information Syndrome  ;D )
 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #655 on: 08/06/2008 06:02:22 »
...Many infectious agents can affect adrenal gland function and cause adrenal insufficiency. These agents, which are listed in Table 1, include mycobacterial, bacterial, viral, and fungal etiologies...
Infectious Causes of Adrenal Insufficiency Fungal Agents
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/462327_5 [nofollow]
 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #656 on: 08/06/2008 06:09:48 »
...Americans are the most fungally infected in the world.  Americans eat more sugar than any other country.  This is no coincidence that the largest sugar consumer is also the most fungally infected group of people.  Sugar disrupts metabolism and damages glands, which repress the immune system.  This opens a door to allow fungi to proliferate throughout the body.  In addition to immune suppression, the sugar fuels the fungi and allows it to thrive...Anti-biotics kill the good bacteria within us.  Not only that, but they are themselves mycotoxins. This allows fungal infections to grow like wildfire. 
 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #657 on: 08/06/2008 06:12:13 »
They now have low cellular sugar, a perfect playground for fungus to feed. However, now the cells do not have enough sugar to burn for energy so we become weak if we do not eat often and we surely do not have enough sugar to keep us alive during the night!

The brain now signals the adrenal gland to send out adrenal hormones to keep the body functioning during the night, which it does. But the side effect is that during the night the person may get hot or they may even have night sweats!

 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #658 on: 08/06/2008 06:16:05 »
The next is very interesting: This helps explain why there is no simple solution to 'Chronic Fatigue, diabetes or heart disease, cancer, Fibromyalgia, and many more diseases.í A host of some of these disorders are called a syndrome, in other words they are your fault. And where do the great scientists of our time say all these diseases come from? No one knows.

But fatigue is associated with all of them.

There appears to be not one but many failing systems also associated with these disorders. In most cases there are some common causes of the system failures. The most common cause seems to be a faulty immune system that allows Candida Overgrowth! Observation strongly points in that direction.
 

Offline Counterpoints

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #659 on: 08/06/2008 20:17:28 »
I also don't think POIS has any connection to chronic fatigue syndrome.

Its not possible for you to say that because you simply dont know. There might be a connection with an underlying mechanism for both POIS and CFS.

Excuse me, it is very possible for me to say "I think...".  I am not making any definitive statements.  I am assigning a low probability to the event that CFS and POIS are closely connected, based on my background and what I have read about each.

B_Jim, I notice my treatment has not been included in the "summary".  Also, I think there was a case where Zoloft was used as a 100% cure?
« Last Edit: 08/06/2008 20:23:55 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline poisONoUS

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #660 on: 08/06/2008 20:35:55 »
Hi Everyone,
So, I have been following this thread for quite a while now, but just now I decided to describe some of my symptons and share some of my ideas.

I am in my low 20ís and even though I feel like I have always had POIS, I only noticed it ~2 years ago. I share many of the symptoms mentioned here before; the main ones being: brain fogginess, low energy, anxiety, mind numbness and lost of care towards the outside world. Brain fogginess (and lost of train of thought) might be the most noticeable symptom for me, specially because I am constantly put into mental challenges due to school/work and can always tell the difference when I am having a POIS. So, tasks that would usually take me a short period of time to execute can sometimes take twice as long when having POIS. Actually everything seems harder to do: even communicating to other people (as mentioned here before) is harder. And, followed by that, comes loss of confidence and depersonalization. 

From my own research and readings from the posts here, dopamine seems to be the most plausible influence on all this. To make story short and from what I understand, dopamine is one of the neurotransmitters responsible for facilitating synapses and also has a big role in motivation/reward (among other functions). When I am having POIS, I tend to feel unmotivated and lose interest on the things that happen around me. It happens because I do not get as much hormonal reward (no good feeling) after doing things. For instance, an ice cream does not taste as good when I am having POIS. However, (hah, and now it gets tricky) my body was desperately asking for that ice cream. It was doing so, because it noticed I was down and needed to give an uplift to the system and put me in a better mood (fight that cortisol). That also explains why I am always craving sweets and junk food when in POIS. And, about the brain fogginess now, that would probably happen because dopamine is related in accelerating synapses and responsible for cognition. People with Alzheimerís (who not only have memory loss but also problems with abstract thinking) are constantly found to have very low dopamine level.

So, basically I have just been trying to sort stuff in my head and trying to make some sense out of all this. I have no medical background, but the dopamine explanation seems to be the most logical to me so far. I am aware that our body is incredibly complex (specially our brain) and that there are many things going on, so it is hard to blame it all on a single neurotransmitter. Especially since there has been variations of POIS seen on this website. Some people for instance, like solution, has intestinal problems which does not happen to me at all. Anyways, I am really in favor of finding professionals to do some research about all this so then people like us donít have to crack our heads trying to figure all this out without the equipment and knowledge necessary for that.

I have gone to an endocrinologist and an urologist. Like many of us here, I got nothing but blank stares and lack of understanding. I was asked to have a hormonal test checking for: testosterone, prolactin, FSH and LH. I havenít done them yet. One of the reasons is because they are not cheap and I am not sure they will tell anything. Perhaps by the end of the summer I will. I hope to have them done before and after orgasm. Anyways, thatís all for now. I am really glad to have found this website and been able read about your problems and relate them to mine.
 

Offline poisONoUS

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #661 on: 08/06/2008 21:07:15 »
I forgot to mention on my last post that POIS usually lasts 1-2 days for me. I can say that I feel totally recovered after
two good nights of sleep. I feel like taking naps in the middle of the day also helps. I have tried many different things like changing my diet and use vitamin supplements, but so far sleep has been the only remedy.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #662 on: 08/06/2008 21:31:23 »
poisONoUS,

Welcome! Really glad to read your story and to see the similarities. It really helps me to read confirmations of POIS after so many YEARS of blank stares from "professionals"!
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #663 on: 09/06/2008 02:32:19 »
B_Jim, I think Counterpoints also has successfully developed a "cure" - albeit inconsistent - with "good orgasm" and "bad orgasm"
 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #664 on: 09/06/2008 03:03:02 »
It is important to mention that Candida Syndrome include many Gastrointestinal symptoms, constipation, abdominal pain, diarrhea, gas, or bloating, and not necessarily one has to suffer all the symptoms, for example I do not suffer diarrhoea whereas  I suffer constipation and of course fatigue
« Last Edit: 09/06/2008 03:05:04 by solution »
 

Offline girlwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #665 on: 09/06/2008 22:03:23 »
demografx: "It really helps me to read confirmations of POIS after so many YEARS of blank stares from "professionals"!"

Not just blank stares, but also ridicule. I was laughed at by several health professionals who told me that "Only GUYS get tired
after orgasm. This doesn't happen to women." They could not comprehend that POIS was not just about "being tired," or that women
could actually have a bad experience with orgasm. I never mention it any more to any health professional I see. I just stick to the
basic CFS fatigue and leave it at that. I feel like I am on my own in finding the answer. And when I do, I can charge a fee for it.  ;D

 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #666 on: 10/06/2008 04:18:00 »
GIRLWIND, I love your spirit/sense of humor. Great reminder for us to not fall into pit of depression over POIS!

 

Offline msl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #667 on: 10/06/2008 11:24:12 »
and the discussion continues xD Man i sure had a lot to catch up on since my last posts. It seems as though this page is getting a bit more precidence in the search results as there seems to be a lot more members joining lately =) I just thought id mention, i tend to have wet dreams in the morning, about 04:00? if thats any help, i heard this is because testosterone is highest in the morning "morning glory" and all that.. but its nice to communicate with people who know what we are talking about. One of the hardest things with this is not being able to talk to people about it!

-hey how are you?
er...good..

And so it happens again and i have 5 exams tomorrow and the academic aspirations for the future become ever more distant =) I liken it to getting beaten down to the floor, picking oneself up only for it to happen again. Each time it gets a little harder to stand up..
 

Offline reuniting

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #668 on: 10/06/2008 23:56:33 »
Hi everyone. My husband and I just found your fascinating thread. If we repeat information that was already discussed, please excuse us. We read a lot of the posts, but didn't have time to read them all.

We have been collecting information about post-sexual satiation "let down" for over a decade, although we did not know it had a name (POIS). In our experience, it affects both sexes, and actually most people. The reason most people don't notice is that the effects can be quite subtle: irritability, malaise, flatness - and most of us simply conclude that our mate is to blame, one way or the other. :)

Our theory is that it is a mammalian mating program, the purpose of which is to push us on to additional mates. After all, no mammals are monogamous (at least in the sense of "sexually exclusive").

After sexual satiation most mammals get restless and move on to their next dance partners. This is known as the Coolidge Effect. The Coolidge Effect refers to the fact that a sexually satiated animal loses interest in a mate, but will perk up (surge of dopamine?) for a novel partner. It would be interesting to know if any of you have noticed your symptoms ease if, during your malaise, you are offered a novel, willing partner.... ;)

Unlike most mammals, humans also have a pair-bonding program (or have adapted the mammalian parent-child bond). It keeps us together for a while...ideally long enough to get a kid on its feet. But we also have this old mammalian program, which makes union less and less rewarding. (Marriage studies show that marriages grow increasingly unhappy over time.)

In short, we can defy our mammalian program and stay married, but apparently many of us can't prevent the subconscious feelings after sexual satiation. Those feelings, when projected onto each other, can make our unions seem less rewarding. We believe that these post-satiation feelings, weak or strong, are a vestige of this old program - there to urge us to stray. Sex that causes malaise can obviously result in uneasiness about ongoing intimacy.

This brings me back to the neurochemical cycle behind this mammalian program. In rats, both female and male, scientists have observed predictable effects for two weeks after sexual satiation (male), or after vigorous intercourse (female). Scientists have tracked post orgasmic changes in human males out for at least a week. In short, the orgasm cycle is far longer than we've realized. We'd be happy to share abstracts, if anyone is interested.

The biggest player in this cycle seems to be dopamine - with secondary players that influence dopamine levels, such as testosterone receptors, prolactin, serotonin, etc. Low dopamine can be very uncomfortable. Consider this experiment where a medical student artificially lowered his dopamine:  newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress [nonactive]
His symptoms sound a lot like the symptoms many of you report - and like a lot of the symptoms we hear from visitors to our site. Interestingly, those leaving porn behind *also* report extreme symptoms, close to some I've read here in your thread. This is more evidence that it is sexual satiation that sets off the discomfort. Perhaps some people are satiated sooner than others.

The real news I want to share is that there is a way to make love, and release all sexual tension, without orgasm. This means that people suffering from extreme forms of POIS can still make love quite contentedly. When my husband and I got together 7 years ago, we began experimenting with this other way of making love (which has been around for thousands of years and goes by many names). Within four months he had dropped an addiction. Within a year he was off of Prozac, and his chronic depression was gone for good. I also experienced health benefits: no more UTI or yeast infections. It also increases the harmony between us, just as the ancients recorded. Apparently it's a way of tiptoeing around our mammalian mating program.

The other way of making love is gentle intercourse, interspersed with periods of relaxation. You make love as long as you like, but without ever stressing the prostate. The emphasis is on generous affection.

If you're interested in our take on what may be going on in the brain during conventional sex, have a look at "Your Brain on Sex." newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain [nonactive]

Sorry to go on and on, but it's great to be able to share what we're learning with others who are contributing to the same pool of knowledge.
 

Offline Guthrie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #669 on: 11/06/2008 02:21:23 »
Hello Reuniting/Marina,

Thanks for joining in on our thread.  Actually, your site was one of first that I found, before this thread got off the ground.  You have certainly done a lot of work compiling different articles and information.

In my experience, there was not a difference in my POIS symptoms when I first started dating my current girlfriend.  So, the 'new partner'/'old partner' theory doesn't seem to hold in my case, at least.  I have found no difference in orgasm with 'new partner', 'longtime partner,' or masturbation.  It seems more tied to the mechanism of orgasm itself, rather than the partner or lack thereof.

In some ways, the POIS group seems like it could provide a good way to figure out the 'sexual let-down' mechanism that you think it found in most people.  If our POIS symptoms are a more extreme version of what happens in most people, it might be easier to figure out the general biological mechanism at work by studying us.  Thus, there could be a wider and more extensive benefit to science/medicine/psychology to be gained by focusing on causes or cures for POIS.  In other words, in trying to convince researchers to investigate POIS, it need not be presented only as an ailment that affects very few people, but it could have also implications for (subtler) symptoms that may affect the broader population.

« Last Edit: 11/06/2008 02:24:32 by Guthrie »
 

Offline reuniting

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #670 on: 11/06/2008 03:47:55 »
I agree that your misery might be the key to understanding a broader problem. Small comfort, eh?  :(

I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking if you have the problem with a new partner. I was being a bit wicked and asking if, during the POIS period set off by one partner, your symptoms improve if you are offered sex with someone *else.* I'm thinking of a naughty remark by comedian Chris Rock who once said, "There's nothing like new p*ssy to clear the mind!"

My take on that is that his dopamine soars when she shows up...but that at some point after he partakes of his new "p*ssy," he will feel his brain go fuzzy again. So she only seems to be "the cure."

Anyhow, I'm sorry you're suffering with this. My personal version of this problem was to get extremely short tempered after orgasm (not necessarily right after). I can tell you that I don't miss the cause, and very much enjoy the benefits of greater harmony. So maybe this program is a blessing in disguise for those of us who are observant enough to catch  on. Very cool thread.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #671 on: 11/06/2008 03:49:25 »
Hello Reuniting/Marina,

Thanks for joining in on our thread.  Actually, your site was one of first that I found, before this thread got off the ground.  You have certainly done a lot of work compiling different articles and information.

In my experience, there was not a difference in my POIS symptoms when I first started dating my current girlfriend.  So, the 'new partner'/'old partner' theory doesn't seem to hold in my case, at least.  I have found no difference in orgasm with 'new partner', 'longtime partner,' or masturbation.  It seems more tied to the mechanism of orgasm itself, rather than the partner or lack thereof.

In some ways, the POIS group seems like it could provide a good way to figure out the 'sexual let-down' mechanism that you think it found in most people.  If our POIS symptoms are a more extreme version of what happens in most people, it might be easier to figure out the general biological mechanism at work by studying us.  Thus, there could be a wider and more extensive benefit to science/medicine/psychology to be gained by focusing on causes or cures for POIS.  In other words, in trying to convince researchers to investigate POIS, it need not be presented only as an ailment that affects very few people, but it could have also implications for (subtler) symptoms that may affect the broader population.



Guthrie, this is excellent! This might help smooth the road for us to attract our research endocrinologist, since our POIS Group may represent "the tip of the iceberg" and not just a tiny little segment of society! Thanks.
 

Offline girlwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #672 on: 11/06/2008 03:58:50 »
HELLO REUNITING--

I have practiced tantric sex with my partner for 9 years. (I believe that's the kind of "gentle intercourse" that you speak of.) But
despite the non-orgasmic focus of tantric sex, occasionally orgasms happen anyway--whether during sex or sometimes during
sleep. And in the case of people with POIS, those symptoms are more severe than the usual "post-sexual satiation let down" that
you are addressing. There are times when, after orgasm, I could not function AT ALL and crashed restlessly all day and felt like I
was on a bad mind-fogging drug trip. Also, on many occasions I have become ill with colds and flus due to orgasmic exhaustion.

Also, I have NEVER felt the urge for a new novel partner in those moments of post orgasm depletion. The idea of more sex at that
point of depletion would be as appealing as trying to eat a multi-course feast after a night of food poisoning.  ;D

So maybe there is some truth in the "normal" (whatever that means) male/female mammalian "post sexual let down" response that
rings true for those who have a faster rebound, and who aren't as depleted/drained/bottomed-out as some of us are after orgasm.
But speaking for myself, I can't relate much to your theory. Although I do hope you're open to investigating us more thoroughly.
We are definitely in need of being investigated.  ;)

 

Offline solution

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #673 on: 11/06/2008 04:08:04 »
I do not know if this can help unveil the mystery, but as I say I notice that after an orgasm I completely alters the digestive system and begins fatigue, which is disappearing as I am about evacuating during the week.
 

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8196
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #674 on: 11/06/2008 04:15:44 »
Reuniting, welcome to the POIS Forum! I agree with girlwind that our symptoms are so severe that it is hard to relate to these "normal" post-satiation observations. The POIS severity usually lasts DAYS. It is often monstrous, debilitating and incapacitating. It has ruined a chunk of my life and most people here, either directly from the symptoms or the "just around the corner" anticipatory fear of having an unwanted orgasm, such as a wet dream.

We are looking for a research endocrinologist to read through our hundreds of posts and to recommend some low-risk cures (I have cured my POIS 75% with Levitra but that is risky for those without ED)

Anything you can do to help along those lines to reach this goal would be greatly appreciated!  Thank you and welcome again.
« Last Edit: 11/06/2008 04:23:06 by demografx »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #674 on: 11/06/2008 04:15:44 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums