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Author Topic: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)  (Read 6438644 times)

Offline reuniting

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #675 on: 11/06/2008 16:37:24 »
Hi all. Thanks for the greetings. I have no doubt that your symptoms are uniquely severe, and I am not trying to make light of them. And there may be somewhat different causes for each of you. For example, some people have differences in their dopamine receptors, which change their susceptibility to addictions and who knows what else? Others have changes to these mechanisms due to lack of childhood nurturing. Generous, non-goal oriented affection seems to ease some of these symptoms, perhaps due to the effects of oxytocin.

I will say that some of what we have uncovered is pretty strong proof that orgasm is a *long* cycle for everyone. So the fact that your symptoms linger for days is not surprising - even though the severity is greater than most people experience.

Since my husband and I also have orgasm occasionally (inadvertently), we have had a chance to watch the changes in ourselves. (And neither of us ever thought orgasm was a problem *before* we began observing ourselves.) The post-orgasmic fallout is always slightly different. Sometimes the symptoms seem more severe than others. No matter how mild the orgasm, we notice *some* unwelcome feelings (fatigue, irritability, brain fog in lesser degrees than many of you experience) off and on for a full two weeks. Any of you care to add your experiences to this thread? newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/node/1319 [nonactive] Effects of Orgasm: Male/Female Differences

As for tantra, I'm not sure that's the same thing as I'm talking about. Some tantra emphasizes the build up of sexual tension. Here's a description of what I'm referring to, just to clarify:

The technique is not based on control. You are not seeking to avoid orgasm or to manipulate your bodily energies; you are merely closing your eyes, feeling those energies stream into your heart, head and genitals and those of your lover, and allowing them to circulateÖ. You are always relaxing, relaxing, falling back into the heart. Effortless awareness is the key. All your energies will be drawn upward, diffused throughout the body.Ö As this takes place, lustful tendencies will be transmuted into feelings of love and the need for conventional orgasm will lessen.[James N. Powell, Energy and Eros: Teachings on the Art of Love, William Morrow and company, Inc. (1985):182]
__

Finally, here's an example of another mammal feeling totally knackered after sexual satiation: newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/science/coolidge_effect [nonactive] Could some combination of genes, environment, diet, other stimulants, other medications, other illnesses, etc. be speeding up this process in some of us?

I'll certainly post any clues we find - and keep tabs on your discoveries. My intuition says we're talking about the same continuum, but I may be wrong.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #676 on: 11/06/2008 18:25:09 »
Reuniting... POIS symptoms are extremely severe.  It's not a case of being more aware of something that most people feel; to be cliche, the difference is like night and day.   

I don't mean to say that you don't have some form of this though -- that is not my place.  Obviously you feel quite strongly about what symptoms you do experience, and I really hope you can help us. :).  I just want to emphasize how this is an uncommon condition (e.g. a majority of people do not have it), and how severe the symptoms are.


« Last Edit: 12/06/2008 03:09:19 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #677 on: 11/06/2008 18:42:26 »
Great news, reuniting. If we are extreme representatives of a more common mechanism, it will be easier to find researchers. Because when they find a cure, they will be able to sell it to many people, not just to the few of us. Keep up the good work!
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #678 on: 12/06/2008 01:25:51 »

We have been collecting information about post-sexual satiation "let down" for over a decade, although we did not know it had a name (POIS).


Marnia, I think the confusion some of us had was from your sentence above which seems to indicate that you equate the universal post-sexual satiation "let down" with POIS.
 

Offline reuniting

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #679 on: 12/06/2008 04:49:59 »
Sorry for the confusion. My theory is that these conditions *are* on the same continuum, albeit at different ends. Who knows?
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #680 on: 12/06/2008 06:13:23 »
So your theory is that everyone has POIS?

I would call what we describe here as POIS and the more common one "post-sexual-letdown" - or somehow distinguish the two.

They are worlds apart.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2008 06:17:34 by demografx »
 

Offline reuniting

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #681 on: 12/06/2008 18:06:51 »
Yes Demo, I see that they are worlds apart. Yet if they lie on the same spectrum, it may be that a behavioral change is a possible solution.

I'm not a big fan of pharmaceuticals. The more I learn, the more obvious it is that we don't know as much about the side effects as we think. Psychotropic  drugs (which are necessary to change neurotransmitter levels in the brain - assuming that's part of this condition) are powerful. They alter the brain, they are hard to get off of (withdrawal misery), and they have had some very nasty, unexpected side effects, such as dampening or inflaming libido, causing addictions and even changes in sexual orientation (dopamine agonists), and severe depression (the ones that were promised to "cure" addiction, for example). Viagra, on the other hand, is associated with sudden blindness and heart disease/strokes.

So my thought is that a change in behavior that leads to satisfying lovemaking - albeit different than fertilization-driven sex - might be a better way to cope than pills. I am not in any way trying to downplay your suffering by suggesting that these conditions are on the same spectrum. I'm very sorry if I gave you that impression in error.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #682 on: 12/06/2008 19:09:59 »
Psychotropic  drugs (which are necessary to change neurotransmitter levels in the brain - assuming that's part of this condition) are powerful. They alter the brain, they are hard to get off of (withdrawal misery), and they have had some very nasty, unexpected side effects, such as dampening or inflaming libido, causing addictions and even changes in sexual orientation (dopamine agonists), and severe depression (the ones that were promised to "cure" addiction, for example). Viagra, on the other hand, is associated with sudden blindness and heart disease/strokes.

I disagree.  I have a tendency to avoid medication when I can -- as I think most people do -- but SSRIs, for instance, have really helped people with serious depression.  Many have taken them regularly for over 10 years, and the net effect has definitely been positive.  I think these drugs have done a lot more good than harm.  And I'm in a professional situation where I frequently have contact with extremely intelligent research physicians. The general consensus amongst them is the same: SSRIs have done a world of good for a lot of people, where pretty much anything else would have been far less effective.

As far as POIS goes, I would be absolutely thankful for anything that would alleviate the POIS symptoms; I'd easily trade POIS for erectile dysfunction.  I -- and I'm sure most others -- are in a state of desperation.  I don't have the luxury to think "Oh, these drugs have a somewhat unknown effect".  I just want something that works.

But I don't really want to turn this into a debate about whether various drugs are good or bad; I'll take what helps.  No-one would deny L-dopa to someone with Parkinson's.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2008 19:13:17 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #683 on: 12/06/2008 19:32:25 »
I don't think cause and effect have been proven with the very rare cases of ED drugs and blindness, but even a handful per millions where there is an association is enough to merit raising awareness and concern.

I agree that pharma can sometimes have unwanted side effects, but I am highly skeptical of any behavioral change working. I tried non-ejaculatory orgasm methods (Mantak Chia) and they failed. I learned that orgasm is the culprit, not ejaculation. But even if the technique worked, it was just way too difficult and an extreme lifestyle change that I believe few can successfully implement.

I'm sure an adept Yogi can adapt to these methods. But what about us mere mortals? I think it's asking too much of most people.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #684 on: 12/06/2008 19:36:23 »
Psychotropic  drugs (which are necessary to change neurotransmitter levels in the brain - assuming that's part of this condition) are powerful. They alter the brain, they are hard to get off of (withdrawal misery), and they have had some very nasty, unexpected side effects, such as dampening or inflaming libido, causing addictions and even changes in sexual orientation (dopamine agonists), and severe depression (the ones that were promised to "cure" addiction, for example). Viagra, on the other hand, is associated with sudden blindness and heart disease/strokes.

I disagree.  I have a tendency to avoid medication when I can -- as I think most people do -- but SSRIs, for instance, have really helped people with serious depression.  Many have taken them regularly for over 10 years, and the net effect has definitely been positive.  I think these drugs have done a lot more good than harm.  And I'm in a professional situation where I frequently have contact with extremely intelligent research physicians. The general consensus amongst them is the same: SSRIs have done a world of good for a lot of people, where pretty much anything else would have been far less effective.

As far as POIS goes, I would be absolutely thankful for anything that would alleviate the POIS symptoms; I'd easily trade POIS for erectile dysfunction.  I -- and I'm sure most others -- are in a state of desperation.  I don't have the luxury to think "Oh, these drugs have a somewhat unknown effect".  I just want something that works.

But I don't really want to turn this into a debate about whether various drugs are good or bad; I'll take what helps.  No-one would deny L-dopa to someone with Parkinson's.

COUNTERPOINTS: very well said! SSRI's turned my life around. I could care less about that third ear growing on my neck.
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #685 on: 12/06/2008 20:16:24 »
Hi, I 'm 38, new in this forum, and with a bad english.
I'm really exhausted since i'm 15  (2 years after the first ejaculation). I realized the fatigue was obviously linked with sex when i was 20. Probably i noticed this because i started to reduce orgasm frequency , this wasn't a voluntary practice, it was naturally happening  without conscious intervention. So, some days i was very tired and other days i was ok and  i was wondering why at the beginning.

Symptoms after orgasm or wet dream are very disabling  :

- can't practice any sport for 15 days. (low energy, weak legs)
- social phobia
- depression
- fear , anxiety
- exhaustion, prostration (> at day 2)
- and others ...
- No diahrrea or constipation. Sorry!

Ok i can be wrong but here are some of my thoughts about that, based on facts.
When i was 13 (1st ejaculation) i was not eating fruits and vegetables but instead, a lot of sugar and meat. 
Now i can say for sure that POIS is extremely aggravated if i eat raw vegetables or even vitamin C in pills. (True for milk also but less). Eating only meat and cereals, without vegetables has an aphrodisiac effect on me and reduce POIS symptoms . (However this diet is causing side effects.) Perhaps  i started sex too soon under the influence of an aphrodisiac diet, when i was under developped for my age (too small adrenals for example) because of inadequate nutrition. Then after with all the fatigue, perhaps the growth isnít what it should be.

POIS is not a new condition in the medical field: I have a medical dictionnary (1976 french book, Larousse) written by real doctors.
They say that sexual abstinence is necessary
-for teens otherwise they will run to nervous exhaustion. 
-for adults after sexual excess and can help for erectile dysfunction.

According to other books, all the symptoms of POIS, (bad effects following sex) can be artificially given  to everyone with several poisonous substances . Here these substances given in small doses are classified as remedies but be very careful if you take this because you can have irreversible aggravations of your condition (my experience), even if you stop soon and if you feel better at the beginning.
http://www.hpathy.com/diseases/spermatorrhoea-symptoms-treatment-cure.asp

I was thinking that semen loss was responsible for the symptoms because for me and others here the loss of pre-cum liquid cause problems (less) . Semen contains a lot of nutrients. 
Also some old books relate a disease called spermatorrhea where seminal losses occur without orgasm and cause POIS.
Is it possible that with the taoist practices, ejaculation inside,  you lose sperm in the bladder ?
And for women  they can also ejaculate, perhaps without knowing the fact if itís inside ... Just an idea like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_ejaculation
However Iím not against the idea that itís only the orgasm the main problem, I simply donít know.

I hope you are all a bit ok anyway !
« Last Edit: 13/06/2008 01:05:57 by martin88 »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #686 on: 12/06/2008 22:59:11 »
Drugs are not my cup of Prozac. I definitely prefer natural solutions, which I'm sure are out there and have far less risk.
Everybody is different, of course, and we all can choose what route we want to take.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #687 on: 13/06/2008 00:04:01 »
It would be great if everything had a natural solution. Unfortunately, that's not the real world.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #688 on: 13/06/2008 03:07:23 »
It would be great if everything had a natural solution. Unfortunately, that's not the real world.

Exactly.  For instance, it would be transparently foolish to recommend only 'natural' solutions to someone with a condition like Parkinson's disease, or diabetes. 
« Last Edit: 13/06/2008 03:11:26 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #689 on: 13/06/2008 03:30:11 »
MARTIN88

Welcome to the POIS forum! Thank you for your post.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #690 on: 13/06/2008 03:32:37 »
It would be great if everything had a natural solution. Unfortunately, that's not the real world.

Exactly.  For instance, it would be transparently foolish to recommend only 'natural' solutions to someone with a condition like Parkinson's disease, or diabetes. 

Definitely. And I believe POIS is right up there - in life-affecting severity - with those 2 conditions.
 

Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #691 on: 13/06/2008 04:48:52 »
One thing I am absolutely secure, when I have an orgasm I feel almost inmediately that something weird happens in my stomach. I feel like my organism whants to sweep stomach contents to intestine, and that get manifested with fatigue and bad mood. I think that may be some substance poured inside by the orgasm mechanism produce this effect. The process I described it last few days and it is acompanied by other common Pois symthoms that I think are result of that process. And not necessarly having diarrea, it is not my case, I start to get very constipated, wich it helps to get worse others symthomps, like to much fatigue, headaches, swollen nose, greasy nose, sweats, get hungry, specially need for sugar foods somethimes or big meals, little of acne, hard hair hard to comb, among many others.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2008 05:01:40 by solution »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #692 on: 13/06/2008 04:59:39 »
It would be great if everything had a natural solution. Unfortunately, that's not the real world.

Exactly.  For instance, it would be transparently foolish to recommend only 'natural' solutions to someone with a condition like Parkinson's disease, or diabetes. 
Thanks for your welcome B Jim and Demografx
I understand your point Counterpoints and the idea behind. But it's not a very good example for L-Dopa and insulin which can almost be considered natural substances, however not found without prescription at the local natural food/herbal store i admit ! About SSRI i'm sure it has unknown bad effects and i have big hesitation since a long time to take this medication. If it's good for PE perhaps it's good to reduce wet dreams. I have to push myself to try this. It seems i have a kind of gradual POIS : i'm a lot better after pois day 4 but I really start to be mentally well (self confidence) just the day before a wet dream , approx pois day 15-21.
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #693 on: 13/06/2008 05:41:56 »
It would be great if everything had a natural solution. Unfortunately, that's not the real world.

Exactly.  For instance, it would be transparently foolish to recommend only 'natural' solutions to someone with a condition like Parkinson's disease, or diabetes. 
Thanks for your welcome B Jim and Demografx
I understand your point Counterpoints and the idea behind. But it's not a very good example for L-Dopa and insulin which can almost be considered natural substances, however not found without prescription at the local natural food/herbal store i admit ! About SSRI i'm sure it has unknown bad effects and i have big hesitation since a long time to take this medication. If it's good for PE perhaps it's good to reduce wet dreams. I have to push myself to try this. It seems i have a kind of gradual POIS : i'm a lot better after pois day 4 but I really start to be mentally well (self confidence) just the day before a wet dream , approx pois day 15-21.


We are now getting into the semantics of what it means to be 'natural', and I think this is besides the point.  The way it is often used, 'natural', is somewhat of a vague term; anything is natural in some sense.

Essentially, if your body is complaining because it lacks something, the drug that most effectively replenishes whatever it is you are lacking is the drug that will help you most; whether or not it is easily accessible in nature is not terribly important, relative to treating the condition.  Also, something being 'natural' (e.g. somewhat easily accessible in nature) has good connotations, but not rightly so; there are many many poisons in nature, far worse than the side effects of most pharmaceuticals. Natural remedies (e.g. foxglove) can also have lethal side effects.  The idea of reverting back to the basics is somewhat of a backlash against pharmaceutical industries, and also a result of an inherent mistrust one has for anything that man has tampered with; it's not totally reasonable in many situations, however.

I don't feel I have the luxury of worrying about whether I could find a treatment in nature; I really feel the need for relief, and like those with Parkinson's, or diabetes, a naturally accessible (non-prescription) remedy may not be the most effective option.  There are many, many, other conditions I could also have used as examples -- and that really is besides the point.  The point is that, for well understood reasons, some conditions will be more effectively treated with processed medications than by any other means, and this may be the case with POIS; it's not something I'm going to rule out.  I am desperate for a solution and therefore open minded to suggestions.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2008 06:01:29 by Counterpoints »
 

Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #694 on: 13/06/2008 18:19:14 »
The point I was making when I triggered this discussion about natural vs synthetic remedies is that we all have a CHOICE
about how to proceed, and that it's up to each of us to find treatment solutions that we are comfortable with, and that suit
our individual needs.

Yes, there are some medical conditions that require the use of pharmaceuticals. But in many instances, there are natural
treatment options that are downplayed or dismissed, because the tendency in our culture is to go for the "quick fix" that
ultimately only suppresses symptoms and ignores the underlying original cause of the problem. THREE EXAMPLES: 1) Many
type two diabetics "cure" their diabetes when they begin to eat healthy and lose weight. 2) Back in the 90's Dr. Dean Ornish
proved that CAD (coronary artery disease) could be reversed with strict low-fat dietary practices, meditation and exercise. 
3) In 1999, in a double-blind study of 30 patients who were recently ill with bipolar disorder, Dr. Andrew Stoll (a Harvard
psychiatrist), discovered that omega-3 fatty acids from concentrated fish oil to be an effective antidepressant and mood
stabilizer--without any of the toxic effects of the pharmaceuticals.

When it comes to POIS, I personally am not willing to submit myself to ingesting synthetic pharmaceuticals in desperation
"to fix" the POIS problem. This decision comes from the facts of my personal medical history and from the serious allergic
reactions and side-effects I've experienced in the past from taking both over-the-counter and pharmaceutical drugs. (I
grew up with a medical doctor father, who like many doctors of his generation, handed out pills like candy. Hence I have
had A LOT of experience with the modern day pharmacopeia. And... I am not impressed.)

Because there is, as of yet, no clear definitive understanding of the CAUSE of POIS, my attitude is a wait-and-see one. I
want to know what I am treating before I commit to treating it.





 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #695 on: 13/06/2008 19:36:37 »
TO COUNTERPOINTS: REPLY FROM TNS RE HOSTING YOUR FORM

Hello demografx,
 
thank you for writing. I'm sorry I've been slow to reply - very busy at the moment.
 
I am afraid that we've got to say no to this request purely on the grounds of fairness; we're pretty stretched with our time and resources, and setting up and supporting things like this further eats into that time.
 
Also, I am unwilling to set a precedent because this would mean we could not legitimately refuse to provide other groups or parties with free special infrastructure, and if we were to refuse them we could then be accused of favouritism (or worse).
 
I am quite happy for you to use the forum to canvas opinion from interested parties - and perhaps a carefully crafted poll help you to do that - but I'm afraid that a webform, at this stage, is not something we're willing to provide.
 
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

For The Naked Scientists
 

Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #696 on: 13/06/2008 21:34:57 »
Demografx: It would take pretty much zero time and resources for them to give us some web-space, and technical support isn't necessary.  But anyways, if they don't want to help, I will make sure this happens some other way: I know of some people who could easily help, but for the sake of anonymity, I was going to wait on asking.  Thanks for looking into this.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #697 on: 14/06/2008 05:18:02 »

Demografx: It would take pretty much zero time and resources for them to give us some web-space, and technical support isn't necessary.  But anyways, if they don't want to help, I will make sure this happens some other way: I know of some people who could easily help, but for the sake of anonymity, I was going to wait on asking.  Thanks for looking into this.


They are extremely busy right now, and also they said they would contact Cambridge U. to inquire about a consulting endocrinologist for our POIS Forum. Thanks for understanding.
 

Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #698 on: 14/06/2008 05:24:35 »

Because there is, as of yet, no clear definitive understanding of the CAUSE of POIS, my attitude is a wait-and-see one. I want to know what I am treating before I commit to treating it.


girlwind, the POIS-cause information you wish will hopefully come from the research endocrinologist we're trying to recruit. Keep in mind that we're in the very beginning, baby stages with POIS. So far, as you can see, NOTHING has been accomplished to date worldwide re a definitive understanding of this vicious malady. But this Forum, to me, is an incredible breakthrough. Prior to the Forum, we had absolutely nothing. Now we have hundreds of focused pages chock full of fascinating personal history and even some successes in the cure department. To some degree, I attribute my partial cure to this Forum in that it raised my awareness of possible contributors and alleviants of POIS.
« Last Edit: 14/06/2008 05:35:56 by demografx »
 

Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #699 on: 14/06/2008 06:27:01 »
We are now getting into the semantics of what it means to be 'natural', and I think this is besides the point. 

That's not a problem if it's besides, honestly it was just a friendly remark without importance from me because i found your examples funny, "bad luck choices". For me nothing is more natural than insulin for lack of insulin which is directly involved in a life process.As Girlwind say, it's far more natural to treat diabete with exercise and diet if possible, I know it's difficult to measure out insulin (synthetic, very effective), finally it's not so natural a doctor who thinks he's himself a pancreas ! I'm not against pharmaceuticals or against natural remedies if they are effective and not harmful. I try to stay open minded with all therapies because i think both can be very effective.(eg foxglove !). Since i had an horrible experience with a pharmaceutical drug in the past which could have been replaced by an other one safer if the doctor had correctly red the warnings, I try to avoid now. To use your own terms I don't feel I have the luxury of taking the risk to be worse than i am today, because i'm also severely ill.
I hope you're doing well with your form. The questions you ask are interesting. I don't have experience in medical research. If you have 1000 cases of pois perhaps it can be difficult to compile but at least we can avoid false results inherent to online forms the way you have done this.

« Last Edit: 14/06/2008 07:05:34 by martin88 »
 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #699 on: 14/06/2008 06:27:01 »

 

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